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A 7-foot shark bit multiple times this swimmer in his late 60s; Details emerging about the final moments of prison escapee Richard Matt's life on the run released; 3:30-4p ET

Aired July 2, 2015 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[15:34:03] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

And there has been yet another shark attack off the coast of North Carolina. A 7-foot shark bit multiple times this swimmer in his late 60s. This latest incident happening yesterday on North Carolina's outer banks' Okracoke Island and followed a series of attacks along the east sea board. You see here on our map, ten so far off to Carolina and it is just the 2nd of July.

So what's causing this to happen? Joining me is shark expert Joe Romero who is also the cinematographer for shark week.

Joe, you're back. Thank you so much for coming back to the show here as we are talking about yet another incident here.

Listen, with all of your knowledge of sharks, why do you think this is happening?

JOE ROMERO, SHARK EXPERT: Well, thanks for having me back, Brooke. I really think it's still the spike in water temperatures. I think it is the migration of the bait fish and the sea turtles that have come into the area that's brought in a lot of sharks. And I think the interaction is really high especially right now around the Fourth of July because the sharks are forging their shores, so.

[15:35:09] BALDWIN: OK. A couple of things. I was talking to someone in the last hour. And I think he's corroborating what you are saying. He is referencing a food web, the fact that you have the fish, you mentioned turtles. Is it that there are more and they are swimming closer to shore, therefore, with the increase of swimmers, given the fact that it's summer time, it's just increasing the probability?

ROMERO: It's the combination of everything together that definitely drove the spike up. The water temperatures have been so increasingly high that the animals have been staying on the outside of that. So it makes for a higher percentage of them.

BALDWIN: Now, I thought the last time you were on, we were talking about some sort of a shark migration. I mean, why specifically are they right around North Carolina and the South Carolina coastline?

ROMERO: It's because that's where the Gulf Stream is right now. It is like that's where it's the warmest. So these tropical sharks have traveled up the coast and sometimes they sit a little further south than they are this year and this year they seem to be a lot more a lot higher, so.

BALDWIN: So they like the warm water? That's why they are there?

ROMERO: Well, they don't like the cold, these particular species of sharks that they have been reporting as possible are not cold water species, so.

BALDWIN: Tell me about the species, how big are they and how big are their teeth?

ROMERO: Well, it is all possible from looking at the bites and everything. But it looks like about seven to eight-foot sharks, something like that was biting and releasing on a lot of them. So it's mistaken identities. It just seems to be probably bull sharks, sand bar sharks, maybe lemon sharks. But there are many species of sharks that live off of North Carolina that are not harmful to humans at all.

BALDWIN: But when you hear about -- I think of this gentleman in his 60s was not too far offshore when the shark -- I mean, the word I heard when I was talking to EMS official is that he bumped into the shark and then the shark chomped down multiple times. The fact, though, that these sharks are coming so close to the shore, is that because they are trying to feed?

ROMERO: Well, they would be able to drive the fish and the prey right against the shoreline which is a lot with big predators do, is try to back things up into a corner so they have no way of escaping. And when they are in that bad visibility swimming around looking for these animals, this fish, they bump into something and they just immediately bite out of it because it's competitive amongst the amount of sharks that are together.

BALDWIN: Again though, you know, ten attacks, I think it's six attacks per year for both north and South Carolina. That's typical. And we're talking ten and it's just the 2nd of July. Do you think there should be a point in time where these particular beaches stop people from swimming? Because they are not, by the way.

ROMERO: I think they should be very, very cautious about the amount of animal life that is in the area this year. It seems like it's a lot higher because of the higher water temperatures. But it also, I would advise everybody to be very, very careful.

BALDWIN: OK. Be very careful, yes. I mean, I'm heading into the ocean in a few hours. So let me just ask you, is there anything someone should be looking out for, an area someone shouldn't be waiting when you're in the ocean?

ROMERO: Well, I think as swimmers you should look for areas that don't have a lot of fish activity, that have better visibility. And to try to stay away from fishermen and fishermen to stay away from swimmers. And I think given a healthy space, I think, you know, as long as you avoid the nighttime dust and dawn, those are all higher potential because it's when the fish are driving and the animals start to use the low light to capture them. So --

BALDWIN: OK. Joe Romero, thank you, our shark expert.

ROMERO: Thanks so much.

BALDWIN: Next. We have details emerging about the final moments of prison escapee Richard Matt's life on the run, what he was doing the moment before he was shot and where he was hiding out in the woods. CNN found the trailer. We'll take you inside.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I don't even know if this door has been opened since this all happened. Take a look.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:43:23] BALDWIN: We are getting some news into us here at CNN about the final moments convicted killer Richard Matt's life and how close an officer actually came to losing his own life in those woods in upstate New York. While back at the prison where he and now captured David Sweat escaped, a changing of the guard, a new warden and new security protocols in place, after these three top prison officials and nine staffers were suspended.

Let's go to Jean Casarez. She is live outside of Clinton correctional facility in Dannemora, New York.

And Jean, before we get to, you know, this video we have inside this trailer of Matt's, you know, final, final days, talk to me about this news you have about the correction officers there.

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, several things. We know the three executive staff and also that nine security have been put on paid administrative leave. Now, a source close to the investigation told me earlier that of the nine security, some were correctional officers, others were not but they were all staff at various levels.

Well, our colleague, Deb Feyerick, has found even more information that one of those now on paid administrative leave, within the security detail, was the watch commander who was filling in that night for somebody else the night of the escape. Also, a sergeant that was on duty that night and a female officer who had just transferred to Clinton.

So at least we know a little bit more about who is on paid administrative leave right now within the security division at Clinton.

BALDWIN: So there's that, then we have the sort of final pieces of Richard Matt's life, how he was shot and killed and also that trailer. [15:45:01] CASAREZ: And this is brand-new information, Brooke,

because we knew and it was almost a week ago today that the tactical unit of the custom and border patrol, and they realized that something was happening, they helicoptered in, they started doing a ground search and that's where they found Richard Matt and we had heard that there was a 20-guage shotgun by his side. One of the agents asked him to surrender. He didn't do it.

But we have just heard today, and this from the U.S. custom and border patrol, Richard -- he actually -- Matt took the shotgun and aimed it at the agent that was asking him to surrender. And then there were those three shots that killed him in his head. And we do have -- and we want to warn everybody, this is extremely graphic video. But this shows Richard Matt shortly after he was killed during that episode right there. You see him in dark green, dark brown clothes. He was found on his side. And once again, the U.S. customs and border patrol saying that he aimed the gun at the agent that was asking him to surrender.

Now, minutes before this, he was in a trailer and we do have video of that trailer. This is the trailer, my producer was there, and she tells me that it was not far off the road at all. It is a trailer that maybe no one had been in for years, an abandoned trailer. You are looking inside, I believe. And you see the cobwebs and you see how it hasn't been lived in.

Well, remember we heard that there was a gunshot by Richard Matt at a camper that was travelling down the road. That's how close this trailer was. Well, he was in that trailer, law enforcement says, when he fired those shots. And it wasn't far from there, with that the grassy area, where U.S. customs and border patrol found him.

BALDWIN: We have a whole sort of tour inside that trailer with our correspondent Gary Tuchman. Go to CNN.com for that.

Jean Casarez, thank you in Dannemora.

Coming up, Donald Trump unplugged. Some of his greatest hits over the last two weeks. We have that mashed up for you.

Also next, the -- oh, boy. The great guacamole debate. Should America give peas a chance?

Listen, this is united move. President Obama and Jeb Bush, this has become a thing online. We will talk to "The New York Times" columnist who sparked this national debate with her one recipe, perhaps the taste as well, to put this debate to a rest. That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:51:33] BALDWIN: Donald Trump has been an official candidate for president for all of 16 days and not including his announcement speech. We already have enough for a little look back. Roll it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I get such great reviews on this speech. I didn't use teleprompter.

I'd love to use a teleprompter. I would have one here, one here and I would go like this, go bah, bah, bah.

So CNN, so they do a poll, and it was a nice poll. They had me second, which is hard to believe I'm second to Bush. Because Bush is not going to get us to the promised land, folks. This is a CNN poll just came in. Who is the best on terrorism? Trump right at the top. Who's the best on handling international trade? Trump is like almost double anybody else, right? The best in handling economy? Trump by far. Who's a nice person? Trump is last!

I want to be a nice person, OK? I've striven all my life to be nice. Actually people do like me.

I go to -- I build a fortune I do the art of the deal and then I watch political pun debts, most of whom are not smart people.

They say Donald Trump is so sad that Donald Trump is taking the place of some senator who is like, give me a break, or some governor, who can't get himself arrested and I'm taking his place.

Now at least you know it's my hair because it is raining out here. If this wasn't my hair, believe me I would not be out there.

Somebody has to come out and tell it like it is. I deal with politicians all my life. I've made a lot of money with politicians, but other than the ones in this room, politicians are all talk and no action. Our leaders are stupid people. They are incompetent. ISIS is building a hotel in Syria. They're competing against me.

I love the Mexican people. I have a great relationship with Mexico. How can I not love people that give me tens of millions for apartments?

It's in my blood. I'm smart. Great marks, like really smart. If I were a Democrat, especially if I was a liberal Democrat, I would be the smartest human being ever.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Of course there was plenty of time for the primaries to hear even more Trump and his ways with words, so stay tuned for that.

Meantime, this is what apparently a lot of you all and we have been talking about here. Not to get too familiar with the president. But in case you didn't know. Barack Obama loves his guacamole. That is right. President Obama has repeatedly declared the avocado appetizer as his favorite snacks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Chips and guacamole. Basically, there's a bowl of good chips and guacamole.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He loses it. OBAMA: I lose my mind. I lose my mind.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: We are going to have to do that again, that animation. That is going to have to happen during the segment again.

OK. So when "New York Times" tweeted this tip to add English peas to guacamole, well, the president would not give peas a chance. So many puns, so fun today.

Listen, its holiday week, people. Tweeting quote "respect the "New York Times," but not buying peas in Guac -onions, garlic, hot peppers, classic. That coming straight from the president of the United States.

With me now, I don't know -- can I say you started this whole thing? This woman, "New York Times" food columnist Melissa Clark. So, by the way, this pea recipe has been up -- you wrote about it in 2013.

[15:55:04] MELISSA CLARK, FOOD COLUMNIST, NEW YORK TIMES: Two years ago. I don't know why it's taken people so long to notice.

BALDWIN: What was it? Was it the "New York Times" tweeting it?

CLARK: Yes. So the main account of the "New York Times" sent out a tweet yesterday. I mean, it's a holiday week, you know, it was just something in fund. It said put peas in guacamole, "trust us." And I think it was the trust us. People just don't want to be told how to eat their guacamole, so they objected. The internet did not like it.

BALDWIN: The president objected in a, you know, rare bit of unity with Jeb Bush. He tweeted, quote "you don't put peas in guacamole."

So let me just be totally transparent with our viewers. We actually have Ian Coogan from this restaurant in downtown, ABC Cusina (ph), that serves this pea guacamole. And so, he is stuck in his car in the '30s. And so, unfortunately, he is not going to make it, because I wanted to taste this stuff. Because that is kind of (INAUDIBLE) being guacamole. So like, what is the big deal with peas?

CLARK: Well, I mean, it is not. There is actually not a big deal. I mean, the fact of the matter is --

BALDWIN: There is the big deal.

CLARK: Well, yes. The Internet thinks (INAUDIBLE). But just in terms of the integrity of the recipe, peas and guacamole works really well. Because, well, first of all, it is New York City restaurant that came up with this recipe. It is Ian Coogan (ph) and chef (INAUDIBLE) -- they're obsessed with seasonal local cooking. Avocados --

BALDWIN: It is a kind of a fancy pants restaurant.

CLARK: And it's a fancy pants dish, OK. But anyway, they though that peas would be, as a local seasonal way to make something a little different to push the envelope, to try something new. And no one is saying that pea guacamole should replace regular guacamole. I mean, regular guacamole is amazing.

BALDWIN: It's a classic.

CLARK: It's a classic. But pea guacamole has its points. It is delicious. The peas are really sweet. They go well with the hot pepper, you know, (INAUDIBLE) that is in guacamole.

BALDWIN: I'm looking at you, Melissa, and listen, I love "New York Times," but I'm like, am I really having this conversation about peas and guacamole here? I mean, and I realized, listen. We're going to the Fourth of July weekend. People love their chips and salsa. They love, you know, their barbecue. I'm very specific about these classic dishes. But have there been other recipes that you have put out there that has like ignited quite this buzz as this apparently has? This is nuts to me.

CLARK: You know, in 2002, I wrote about deep-fried Twinkies. Deep- fried Twinkies is part of our American culture.

(CROSSTALK)

CLARK: Nobody said a word about it. But now, all of the sudden, you put peas in guacamole, people don't like it. And I do understand - I mean, regular guacamole is delicious, but think of it this way, Brooke. If someone hadn't put cheese and chili on a hot dog, we have new chili cheese dog, do you think that they have a chili cheese dog in Germany? No, not authentic. Or what about meatball farm, meatball parmesan, not authentic in Italy. But these are delicious dishes. We need to innovate. We need to be able to experiment. And you know what, there is room in this world for guacamole of all kinds.

BALDWIN: What's the deal with if people want to go. I mean, we've been making phone calls. We are hoping to have Ian on at ABC Cusina (ph), the co-creator of this recipe and apparently like the phone, it's gone gangbusters, people all wanting to go to the restaurant for this guac.

CLARK: I think that everybody should because it's a delicious dish. So, you should try. I wish you were with me eating guacamole and talking at the same time. And you know what everyone should do? Go to NewYorkTimes.com, look at the recipe and make it yourself this weekend and try it. And if you don't like it, you can write to us and you can complain, but don't knock it until you try it people.

BALDWIN: Is there anything else that people have been upset in terms of guacamole. I mean, how do you - listen, I'm a big garlic fan, so I'm all about the garlic and a little bit of lime.

CLARK: Yes. Well, you know, garlic is actually not traditional, even though President Obama mentioned it in his tweet. Garlic is not something that you would normally find in Mexico. You find it a lot here. It's delicious in guacamole, also. But it is not strictly authentic. So even Obama for all of his objection to the peas, it's not the true classic. It is not a purist.

BALDWIN: I can't believe I'm about to say this.

CLARK: My God. Here comes Ian and the guacamole.

BALDWIN: Ian, let's just do this live. Come here. We have 60 seconds.

CLARK: We're really hungry. I just ate it before I went here.

BALDWIN: Ian Coogan, ladies and gentlemen. Let's go - here we go. This is live TV. Thank you so much. I'm Brooke, by the way.

IAN COOGAN, CHEF: Ian.

BALDWIN: Nice to meet you. So just speak into my microphone. You are the man -- she started this, you made it, how did you think of peas?

COOGAN: We were about to open and it kept getting pushed back, and it was clear it would by springtime, we thought what we do is local, seasonal that would work with avocados, and we started trying those peas and we liked the taste of it and went with it.

BALDWIN: What is it about an English pea?

COOGAN: It's sweetness. It lightens up the avocado. I mean, it makes the guaca a little bit later and I thought it tastes good.

CLARK: Can we try it?

BALDWIN: Hang on, I have 30 seconds, then we're going to go to Washington, and then we are going to try it and we'll put it online. We will put in on the Internet for all of you. But just finally, I guess on my 20 seconds I have left, is your phone ringing up the hook?

COOGAN: Not yet. I haven't seen some seen tweets popped in there. Lot of text messages, so we will see after this.

BALDWIN: OK. Ian Coogan, ABC Cusina (ph), thank you so much. We will try the guac. Melissa Clark, thank you so much. You started this. You get the blame.

I'm Brooke Baldwin. I'm about to eat some guac. That does it for me. "The LEAD" starts right now.