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Captured Killer Reveals Plan to Escape; FBI Investigating Possible Corruption at N.Y. Prison; Obama to Expand Overtime Eligibility for Millions; NBC Dumps Donald Trump Over Derogatory Comments; Greece on the Verge of Default; Obama's Popularity at Highest Level in Two Years. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired June 30, 2015 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did he have any fight in him when he was taken down?

[05:58:56] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Doesn't -- doesn't appear that way.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He has already started talking, which tells me they brought in an experienced interrogator.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Their plan was, indeed, to go to Mexico.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The president with a new plan to boost paychecks for millions of Americans.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: More than doubling the minimum salary level to qualify for overtime pay.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I've lost my job, and I want to survive.

RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: What's going on, of course, is that Greece is just about out of money.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It doesn't have the $1.7 billion that it needs to make its latest loan payment.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: NBC to Donald Trump: "You're fired."

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: He used some very offensive and derogatory language to describe Mexicans that come to this country.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES: I said drug dealers. I said killers. And I said rapists.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota and Michaela Pereira.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: We like starting off the morning with that beautiful picture... MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, we do.

C. CUOMO: ... as we say good morning to you. And welcome to your NEW DAY. It's Tuesday, June 30, 6 a.m. in the East. Alisyn is off today. But Mick and I are here, and we have new information about the escape plan for those two New York convicted killers.

David Sweat is hospitalized, and he's talking to investigators. The two apparently planned to go to Mexico, but when their getaway driver never showed up, they had to improvise their next moves. There's a lot more to that story coming up.

PEREIRA: In the meantime, the New York prison that they escaped from is now under federal investigation. Were prison employees and inmates engaging in criminal behavior?

Let's begin our coverage with Sara Ganim. She's live at the hospital in Albany where David Sweat's condition is said to be improving -- Sara.

SARA GANIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Chris and Michaela.

Yes, you know, for three weeks while these guys were on the run, authorities really wondered, was the prison seamstress, Joyce Mitchell, really their escape plan? Did they really plan to run off with her? Now that David Sweat has been captured and is talking, it turns out she really was their Plan A. And when she didn't show up, they had to improvise.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GANIM (voice-over): Investigators hoping convicted killer David Sweat continues to talk this morning. The former fugitive's condition now improving after being shot twice in the torso Sunday.

ANDREW WYLIE, CLINTON COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: He's going to be brought back to the Department of Corrections when he's cleared medically.

GANIM: Police wanting answers to exactly how Sweat and Richard Matt planned and executed their escape from the maximum-security prison. Thirty-five-year-old Sweat already confessing that he and Matt initially planned on running away to Mexico with former prison worker, Joyce Mitchell.

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D), NEW YORK (via phone): They would kill Mitchell's husband, and then get in the car and drive off to Mexico.

GANIM: When Mitchell didn't show up, the duo headed toward Canada instead. But 18 days after their escape, the men separated, Sweat telling investigators 49-year-old Matt was slowing him down. A source telling CNN there's evidence Matt was sick, possibly from contaminated food or water. An examination of his body found blisters on his feet and minor cuts.

SHERIFF KEVIN MULVERHILL, FRANKLIN COUNTY, NEW YORK: You know, for as intelligent as these guys are, breaking out of a maximum- security prison, evading police for three weeks, Joyce Mitchell was Plan A.

GANIM: Both men were found dressed for the woods. Inside Sweat's bag there were tools, bug spray, maps and Pop-Tarts. Authorities say Matt's body reeked of alcohol. The inmate's DNA initially found inside this cabin, along with an opened bottle of grape gin.

WILLIAM FARMINGTON, FOUND CABIN WHERE INMATES STAYED: There was cooking gear. There was a barbecue. There was beds. It looked pretty well-equipped for a place that far out in the woods.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GANIM: Now Sweat remains in this hospital here in serious condition. And he is under, of course, heavy security here. Both law enforcement and hospital officials watching him 24/7. He does expect -- they do expect he will be here a few more days before being released back to the Department of Corrections. And the district attorney in Clinton county is saying he does plan to charge David Sweat with escape, with burglary and with any other crimes he may have committed while on the run -- Chris.

C. CUOMO: Probably no hurry to move him, as long as he's still giving them information. Sara, thank you very much, appreciate it.

So you have David Sweat and Richard Matt, no longer a danger on the outside. So the focus will be, for the state authorities and the FBI, to look inside the Clinton Correctional Facility. Who was involved, and what was going on in that prison? There are allegations of drug trafficking and corruption that have surfaced so far during this prison break investigation.

CNN's Jean Casarez is live in Dannemora with that part of the story. Jean, where does it take us?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Chris.

Well, CNN has confirmed that the FBI has launched an investigation to see if there is an issue with drug trafficking inside the prison that I'm standing right outside of right now. And it would be amongst the inmates, but even more than that, to see if any drug trafficking would actually involve some of the prison employees.

Now, we do know that the New York state solicitor general has been launching an investigation for several weeks now. They've been going through files, but even more than that, they've been talking with employees. And some of those employees have told officials that there is heroin use amongst the inmates. And so the question is, are the employees involved in that at all? Even more than that, were Matt and Sweat involved in that? Because they had access to areas in the prison that other inmates may not have.

We also are learning that their DNA was found deep inside tunnels, inside the prison, down below, and because of any issues, why did they get access to those areas?

Now, they are also talking with inmates as to whether they have been spoken to about the outside. And if employees have talked about what it's like out here, what routes are outside the prison.

Well, now, while the prison is doing their investigation, the courts are taking their toll. And yesterday, Gene Palmer actually appeared. He made his first appearance in this county court. It was his court appearance where they waived any further proceedings in this lower court. They will now go to the higher court; and a grand jury, according to the district attorney will be convened in most likely about a month. And that grand jury will then determine whether there is an indictment of Gene Palmer.

[06:05:14] Now, he is one of only two employees that has been charged at this point. But he's got three felonies and one misdemeanor, and he is charged with very serious allegations. Nothing to do with the actual escape, but involving taking things in to Matt and Sweat. And after they went missing, burning and burying their paintings.

And so now, we have to wait for that grand jury and, of course, the other defendant, Joyce Mitchell. And the question now is, will there be even more charges on the state or even a federal level, if in fact, this drug trafficking has any truth to it -- Michaela.

PEREIRA: We'll have to wait and see what that investigation nets. All right, Jean, thank you so much for that.

Breaking overnight, President Obama working to make millions of Americans eligible for overtime pay. He wants to more than double the threshold for salaried workers to make that extra cash. This as a brand-new CNN/ORC poll conducted after several big wins for the White House shows that the president's approval is at its highest point in two years.

Senior White House -- White House correspondent Jim Acosta is live at the White House with details for us.

Good morning to you, Jim.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Michaela.

A lot of numbers to run through. I'll get right to it.

The White House is setting new overtime rules that will raise the pay of nearly 5 million Americans. President Obama announced the move on the "Huffington Post" last night, saying -- we'll put this up on screen -- "In this country, a hard day's work deserves a fair day's pay. And that's at the heart of what it means to be middle class in America."

Now, here's what it means for you. Under the old overtime rules, that extra pay of time and a half stopped at $23,660 a year. Now that threshold will be bumped up to people making up to $50,400 a year. This announcement comes, as you mentioned, Michaela, as the

president is receiving higher marks for the way he's handling his job. According to our new CNN/ORC poll numbers, the president's approval numbers are on the rise. Fifty percent approve, 47 percent disapprove. That's important, because that's his highest number in two years.

And just over the last year, you can see the difference. He has not been over 50 percent over the course of the last several months. One reason why that is, the president is getting better marks for how he's handling race relations. That is up five points. You see it there, 55 percent. Five points higher than it was last month.

People also are feeling better about how the president is handling race relations overall. Twenty percent say they are better under President Obama, up five points from earlier this year.

And another big swing for the president in our new CNN/ORC poll is his handling of the economy. We've been talking about these overtime rules this morning. Well, on the economy, the people like what he's doing right now. Up six points over the last month. That is basically the reason why his approval numbers are now up above that magic number of 50 percent, Michaela and Chris.

That is a number that the White House is going to like to see this morning. They're going to be waking up to some better poll numbers. And the last time we talked about these CNN/ORC numbers when they were not heading in the right direction, Chris.

And as for these overtime pay rules, you've heard the president say he wants to raise the minimum wage. This is another way to get around raising the pay for millions of Americans, and the White House likes the sound of that, as well.

C. CUOMO: This will be one of those polls that they don't dismiss out of hands and say it's a distraction.

ACOSTA: No, that's right.

C. CUOMO: That's good. Jim, thank you very much. We appreciate it.

So there's new fallout to tell you about for Donald Trump. NBC giving him a taste of his own medicine. Wait for it: you're fired. The real-estate mogul turned presidential candidate is out at NBC over derogatory comments he made about Mexican immigrants during his campaign launch speech.

The network is also announcing it's dropping the Miss USA/Miss Universe pageants. And in true Trump fashion, he's already firing back.

CNN's Athena Jones live in Chicago with the latest. And when Donald Trump comes at you, the word "sue" usually comes up soon enough.

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it does. He's threatening to sue. Good morning, Chris.

The reality-show star and now presidential candidate had already planned to give up his hit show on NBC, "The Apprentice." But on Monday, the network made it official: they're keeping that show without him and using his famous line, "You're Fired."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TRUMP: Somebody has to come out and tell it like it is.

JONES (voice-over): In fact of a packed house in Chicago, Trump stood by his comments about Mexican immigrants.

TRUMP: They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.

JONES: He said in a report by Fusion, owned by Spanish-language channel Univision and ABC.

TRUMP: They think it's like Mother Teresas coming across the border. OK? This one says 80 percent of Central American women and girls are raped crossing into the United States. Well, I said drug dealers; I said killers; and I said rapists.

[06:10:09] JONES: Asked if he would apologize, Trump said...

TRUMP: There's no apology, because what I said is right. I mean, what I said is 100 percent right.

JONES: NBC says it will no longer air the Miss USA or Miss Universe pageants, partly owned by Trump, following a similar step by Univision, who's also dumped the event.

TRUMP: I will be suing Univision. Maybe I'll be suing NBC, too.

JONES: NBC was facing growing pressure to respond, with more than 200,000 people signing onto a petition on Change.org, calling on the company to dump Trump. Amid the controversy, Trump has been surging in the Republican polls, up to second place in the first primary state of New Hampshire. He touted the latest CNN/WMUR poll.

TRUMP: There's a CNN poll just came in, and they have interesting categories. Who's the best in terrorism? That's a pretty important subject. Trump, right at the top. Who's the best on handling international trade? Like, not even close. Trump is, like, almost double anybody else. Right? That's incredible.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JONES: And Trump issued a statement slamming NBC for, quote, "standing behind," quote, "lying Brian Williams," but not behind, quote, "people that tell it like it is, as unpleasant as that may be." So there you have it. Classic Trump, he's defiant, and he sees himself as a truth teller -- Michaela.

PEREIRA: In true Trump fashion. All right, Athena. We'll be talking more about this throughout the course of the morning.

Greece is on the verge of economic default this morning. Officials denying a last-minute request for an extension on a $1.7 billion payment that's due to the International Monetary Fund. What happens when Greece defaults and what will be the impacts here in the United States?

Let's get to CNN's business correspondent, Richard Quest, live in Athens with the latest -- Richard.

QUEST: Good morning. Good morning.

Twelve hours from now, 12 hours to the minute is when the default is likely to happen. That's when Greece has to make a payment to the International Monetary Fund, the IMF. And last night, the economy minister in Greece told me, "We don't have the money. Making the payment is impossible."

So, Michaela, no question about it: Greece will default today. The issue, of course, is will there be ripple effects around the financial system? Everybody is trying to be prepared for what might happen.

And here is a little thought. There's just a possibility, the rumor, the gossip we're hearing here in Athens. People saying there may be some talks taking place. Who knows if it's true? We'll be finding out in the next hour. For the time being, Greece defaults today, Chris.

C. CUOMO: And it's absolutely rocking the markets all over the world, even here in the U.S., so we'll be following it very closely. Richard, good to have you here. Thank you.

Breaking overnight, at least 38 people reported dead after a military jet crashes in the Indonesian city of Medan. Officials say the C-130 transport plane went down just after take-off from an air base in northern Sumatra. They say the aircraft has 12 people on board. The other victims, of course, on the ground. The cause of the crash is under investigation.

PEREIRA: The U.S. and its international partners issuing a warning to Iran, saying the preliminary agreement reached in April must remain the basis for a final nuclear deal. Today is the official deadline to reach the deal. Both sides agree, it will not happen today. U.S. officials want an agreement by July 9. Otherwise, the period for congressional review doubles from 30 to 60 days -- Chris.

C. CUOMO: Thank you very much, Mick, for giving me a little time to get over here.

PEREIRA: I tried.

C. CUOMO: Let's get back to our top story. The prison escape is over. But now, there is a bigger story. What was going on at the Clinton Correctional Facility? Right now, it doesn't look pretty. Corruption, drug trafficking and more being raised by state and federal investigators.

Let's bring in someone who understands these investigations very well and where they can lead, retired U.S. Marshal Arthur Roderick. He's the former assistant director of the U.S. Marshals Service.

Mr. Roderick, very good to have you. Obviously, it is key that David Sweat is talking to them on one level. Because you have two levels here: how did this happen and what else is going on? So what is the strategy in getting Sweat to keep talking, and what are going to be the hurdles that investigators and interrogators have to deal with where he's involved?

ARTHUR RODERICK, FORMER ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, U.S. MARSHALS SERVICE: Good morning, Chris.

I think Sweat's notoriety right now is driving him forward. I mean, he's basically a rock star in the prison system right now. His name and picture have been put out across the country and basically internationally. And I think it wasn't that difficult to get him to talk. Very narcissistic. He's a psychopath, and he's going to want to tell his story. He's going to want his story to get out. They're already talking about movies and TV shows. And I think it just bolsters his ego to have his story come out.

[06:15:10] Now, of course, you have to take some of it with a grain of salt. But I think, if they compare this with Joyce Mitchell's story, that they'll be able to come up with exactly what had occurred in the prison. And also, we know enough information on the outside that we're probably able to break down what he said about what happened once they got out of the manhole cover.

C. CUOMO: Get some corroboration there and notoriety is the only currency he's going to get. Because he's not going to profit from any movies or TV that are made about his escape as a felon.

Let me ask you, though. The story about the plan: Joyce Mitchell was supposed to get them; they were all supposed to go to Mexico together. It seems odd on two levels. One, why would they kill the husband? Was it just because this was the vig for Joyce Mitchell's involvement?

And second, what was the chance two guys like this would keep someone like Joyce Mitchell alive once they got to Mexico? What's your take on those two?

RODERICK: Those two are very good questions. I mean, obviously, I think that probably Mitchell had fallen in love with them and that she had to get rid of the husband, and that was probably the trade-off for getting them to Mexico. I don't think she would have made it to Mexico or maybe made it across the border, and then they would have taken care of her.

But it just is very odd. This isn't the Old West anymore, where once you hit the border, there's automatic freedom. I mean, both Canadian border officials, law-enforcement officials on each side of the borders in Mexico and Canada were ready for this. In fact, the U.S. Marshals had gotten a federal unlawful flight

warrant and had notified Interpol, and there was already notices in both those countries to arrest those individuals, you know, if they came across the border. So, this idea that they were going to get some type of quick freedom is really a false idea.

C. CUOMO: I just know that investigators were baffled that Sweat has said, "Yes, our plan was to kill the husband."

They were like, "Why would you do that?"

And he said, "Well, we had a deal." It just seemed like an unusual, honorable thing for this guy to do. It's not honorable to kill somebody, but like, he was thinking about keeping with the deal with somebody when he's the kind of guy that he is.

So now we have the second layer, which is what's going on inside of that prison? The allegations, if you take them at their worst, Arthur, of the heroin trade that was going on and the -- and it's being driven by the guards, as horrible as those sound, it's not the first time you've heard them, is it?

RODERICK: No. I mean, this is -- I don't want to say it's common, but it does happen in corrections facilities. I mean, we don't want to indict all 1,400 employees in that facility. There are plenty of good employees, professional employees, employees that stay right, you know, within the guidelines that are at the institution.

But I mean, it just comes down to complacency. And that's what happens. I mean, some of these guys get complacent. They let a little thing slip by. And then the next thing you know, they're letting larger issues slip into the facility.

And, you know, drug trafficking does occur in facilities, and it is a way for the -- especially individuals that are doing life without parole. I mean, what else do they have to look forward to?

C. CUOMO: And sometimes you'll hear theories of co-dependency also, where having these drugs in there mollifies the population and makes them easier to control. It gets deeper and deeper. We'll see where it leads.

Mr. Roderick, thank you very much. We look forward to depending on you as we get more information.

RODERICK: Absolutely. Thanks, Chris.

C. CUOMO: Mick, over to you.

PEREIRA: All right, Chris. President Obama's approval rating hitting a two-year high. What exactly is behind the rise and what impact will it all have on the 2016 race?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:22:38] PEREIRA: Is President Obama bouncing back after a big week of wins for the White House? A new CNN/ORC poll shows Obama's approval reaching 50 percent for the first time in more than two years. How is this going to affect the president's remaining time in office and the 2016 race?

Let's ask the people we can ask. CNN political commentator, Republican consultant Margaret Hoover, who's looking resplendent in yellow. CNN political analyst and editor-in-chief at "The Daily Beast," not to be outdone, looking good himself, John Avlon. Good to have you guys here.

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning, Michaela.

PEREIRA: I'm coming apart. Don't mind me.

C. CUOMO: Unfortunately, I have to insist you direct it at me, because Margaret's pregnant. Bring it on.

PEREIRA: I'll bring the germ killer in. These figures are coming, obviously, Margaret, on the heels of a fantastic week for the president. We talked to you guys about the week that he had. Now we see the polls number reflecting the great week he had.

HOOVER: We talked about what a great week he had, and that was before the Supreme Court ruling for gay marriage had come out.

PEREIRA: Yes.

HOOVER: So I mean, it really did solidify on the heels. And he really had this incredibly deft, incredibly graceful eulogy that he gave for Clementa Pinckney in South Carolina. And these polls, in my opinion, must reflect that. This poll went into the field that day. It came out two days later. And that was national news, him eulogizing this African-American minister and state representative in South Carolina.

What was interesting to racial discrimination numbers in this poll.

PEREIRA: Yes, can we pull that?

HOOVER: That was really interesting.

PEREIRA: That is what seems to not necessarily...

HOOVER: We should talk about this. Because 74 percent of -- besides the fact that 55 percent -- the majority of Americans approve of how the president's handling race relations...

C. CUOMO: This week.

HOOVER: This week. Dig deeper into these numbers. They say 74 percent of Americans believe race relations have gotten worse. Forty- five percent of African-Americans say that they're discriminated against at least once a month. And that's up from numbers five years ago where they were saying that -- a much lower number were saying that they personally experienced discrimination on a regular basis.

JOHN AVLON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. I think the president is ushering in a more complex conversation about race. I think, you know, a lot of the things we've been discussing in the wake of Ferguson and Baltimore might not have occurred in the past, because there wouldn't have been the coverage. There wouldn't have been the cell-phone video, et cetera, et cetera.

So I mean, I think we've got to be a little bit careful about reading too much into those particular numbers. Because I don't think anyone would say that the "W" years were halcyon for race relations in America.

HOOVER: So that's the question. The question is: is the fact that we have an African-American president maybe, as you were saying, ushering in a new kind of conversation about race? People are more...

[06:25:08] AVLON: I think the president's actually embracing that conversation in a way he was perhaps reluctant to politically at the outset of the administration. Again, this is all in the context of a president who's been liberated in the fourth quarter and is, all of a sudden, I think, speaking more frankly. And I think the Clementa Pinckney sermon -- you know, sermon/eulogy was an example of that.

C. CUOMO: So you have two other aspects of this poll. One, you have this 50, the new 60 in terms of approval ratings, because everybody is so down in the negatives...

AVLON: Yes.

C. CUOMO: ... when you look across even the people running for president.

And the racial split. So let's put up the number of the racial split on this poll.

PEREIRA: This is what surprised me.

C. CUOMO: Right. So how do you take a look at these numbers, John? What do they mean?

AVLON: I mean, unfortunately, we have seen this kind of a split over the course of the presidency. We see it in election results. You know, as he famously said when he won Iowa, you know, "I was black when I won Iowa." You know, which is 95 percent white. But we have seen these sorts of divisions. That's just the fact in this polling consistently over the course of this presidency.

PEREIRA: Can we pivot now to the 2016 race?

C. CUOMO: Yes.

PEREIRA: We must. We must, because there's a few candidates we want to tick through. We have to talk about Trump and the news that NBC is essentially -- do your impression...

C. CUOMO: You're fired.

PEREIRA: There you go. And Trump says, "I'm suing you."

C. CUOMO: "I'm suing you." Yes.

PEREIRA: What an interesting development that I saw come out of this, John, is the fact that we saw a very large cry, both on social media and otherwise, from Latino -- the Latino community in a resounding way. And it gave me an idea that maybe we're getting a glimpse of how powerful this group could be going into 2016 in a real way.

AVLON: Not only a glimpse; I think it's concrete evidence. It turns out you can't say that Mexican-Americans are rapists and get away with it.

And I think also, it undercuts some of the premise of this campaign. Because again, let's be real. This is about marketing. This is a guy who sees this as an opportunity to build his brand. And all of a sudden, trying to transition into being a presidential candidate, and using that kind of New York tabloid rhetoric doesn't work so well. And there's real concrete negative impact on his business. And that is going to impact his political calculus.

C. CUOMO: Right.

AVLON: But the pushback you're seeing, marshaled again by social media, is it makes it very clear that there's a limit to how much people will take that degree of demagoguery.

C. CUOMO: He's a celebrity. He's -- there's a caricature nature to him; and he's a salesman. And it is good to see on one level that what won't sell is being insensitive and harsh towards ethnic minorities.

AVLON: Yes. Bad week for bigots.

C. CUOMO: So -- well put, my friend. So now let's talk about Christie, who's getting into the race, how he's getting into the race. Any kind of sign that it's working for him?

HOOVER: So those candidates on the Republican field who underestimate Christie, do so at their own peril. If you've seen him in -- in -- he's exciting...

C. CUOMO: If you're advising me and I'm another candidate, I say, "But he's almost a hash mark."

HOOVER: Yes. Yes, yes.

C. CUOMO: "Why do you want me to worry about him?"

HOOVER: Yes. Because it's a long race. There's 498 days left.

C. CUOMO: Four hundred and ninety-six, come on, Margaret. HOOVER: Oh, my. But here's the thing. He's going to -- he's

going to announce today in his high school. And then he's going to -- he's going to go to New Hampshire.

New Hampshire is roughly the size of Bergen County. That's the largest county in New Hampshire. He is better at retail politics than anybody else in the field. And guess who's new? He's going to shake every single hand in New Hampshire until he stops, again and again and again.

You have to win one of the first four states if you're in this race. And I don't see that path for Jeb. I don't know what that path is for Marco Rubio. I don't know which of the four states they win. They're really tight. I can see Christie winning New Hampshire.

PEREIRA: I see you wanting to answer, but I've just got to throw in Biden. We have to talk about that before we leave, because we understand "Wall Street Journal" is reporting that his son, the late Joe -- late Beau Biden, encouraged dad to run. This would be a bit -- a fair distance behind his Democratic rivals. What are your thoughts?

AVLON: I don't think how you -- how you make an emotional calculus and how that transitions to a decision to run for president. It's an interesting color, a time of great pain for the Biden family.

What I think is very clear is there is at least among some members of the Democratic base, a demand for an alternative to Hillary. And Bernie Sanders may be emotionally satisfying, but he's probably not an alternative nominee. So the question is, who will fill that space? And Biden is very popular, especially among Democrats.

So as that decision gets made, this sort of color gives us nuance into the Biden family. But how any of us talking about it abstractly can offer real insight, I think we want to be modest.

C. CUOMO: Final point.

HOOVER: He should run. We should have real competition on the Democratic side.

AVLON: Republicans want more competition in the Democratic primary.

HOOVER: Doesn't America want more choice?

(CROSSTALK)

C. CUOMO: If people are starved enough for plain speak that they want Trump in the race, Joe Biden is plain-speaking...

(CROSSTALK)

C. CUOMO: ... praise him on top of it. All right. Let's look at the clock.

PEREIRA: Four hundred ninety-six days, Christopher, and 18 hours.

C. CUOMO: You know, Hooves greatly distorted the amount of time left, now, 496, 18, 30, 28 you see right there. And a little bit of context for it, when the election comes around, Margaret will not look like this. And she'll probably be asked...

HOOVER: I'll have two children.

C. CUOMO: ... if the kid's in preschool.

PEREIRA: This one will be looking a little more weary, as well.

AVLON: Already, I'm getting no sleep.

PEREIRA: Take a picture now.

C. CUOMO: Take a look at me. I am the ghost of Christmas future.

HOOVER: Not looking for bad.

PEREIRA: Not looking so bad. Good to have you guys here.

C. CUOMO: All right. So, the big story this morning is that David Sweat is back in custody and singing like a canary. The story he is telling. Drugs and corruption on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:>