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GOP Split over Same-Sex Marriage Decision; World Markets Down After Greek Crisis Flare Up; Arrests Made in Tunisian Beach Attack. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired June 29, 2015 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[13:30:00] ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Some people -- I can tell you from a personal point of view, I was full of celebration. There was joy in my heart. So many of my gay friends are going to be legitimized in a way they so want to be. And from a political perspective, I hope Republicans can move on. Though I recognize that the religious freedom issue is a legitimate question, and, yes, it's a battle that is just beginning.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: What do you think, Sophia? Because I'm told you have a dissenting view on this Supreme Court 5-4 decision rooted in your faith. What would you like to see happen now?

SOPHIA NELSON, AUTHOR: Well, two things, Wolf. I think last week, on measure, was just a bad week for the go GOP on all issues of diversity, whether it was the Confederate flag, whether it was gay marriage, whether it was the horrible massacre in Charleston and dealing with the conversation around race and I think this one caught them flat footed. I think for me and for many millions of Christians in this country we weren't pleased with the ruling as a matter of faith because, as you know, whether you're a Christian, Jewish or Muslim, your faith teaches that same-sex marriage, homosexuality, and a litany of other issues and sins, by the way, aren't acceptable. So I think that for us it was not a happy day.

As an attorney admitted to the Supreme Court of the United States bar, I think it was decided the right way on the merits of the law under the equal protection clause. So I can be a mature enough adult, and I think those in the Republican party who share my view, are going to have to look at this kind of as a split decision, if you will, on, yes, it may be against my faith principles but on the merits of the law the corporate probably reached the right decision.

BLITZER: So basically, what you're saying, Sophia, is you agree with the more moderate Republicans, like Jeb Bush, for example, who are saying it's the law of the land, live with it, as opposed to the Bobby Jindals or the Mike Huckabee or the Ted Cruz as a way to fight this? Is that right, Sophia?

NELSON: I think what Governor Jindal said was ridiculous. Let's get rid of the Supreme Court. You can't get rid of the Supreme Court. It's written into the Constitution. The Republican Party will have to do something very different headed into 2016 and into their own party platform and how they're going make that up. Are they going to make gay marriage an issue in that platform? Are they going to leave it alone? I think if they continue to bumble on issues of race, the race discussion, around diversity, around issues of gay and gay marriage, I think the party will have a real difficulty in 2016 reaching the centrist voter like a Sophia Nelson and others.

BLITZER: Ana, I know you're a Republican, I know you like Jeb Bush. What would you like them to say specifically on the issue of gay marriage?

NAVARRO: I was happy. I thought he had an inclusive tone, a conciliatory tone. He is against the underlying issue of gay marriage. It's something on which we disagree, which is fine. I don't have the expectation that I'm going agree with one politician or another on 100 percent of the issues. But I think he was responsible in his tone.

I was disappointed with Scott Walker calling for a constitutional amendment, which he knows is absolutely, completely, utterly unrealistic. I was disappointed with former Rhodes scholar, for god's sakes, Bobby Jindal, an incredibly smart man casually calling for the dismantling of the Supreme Court.

We can't fall into the trap of using this as a wedge issue. I think responsible people need to look for pragmatism and common ground. And we need to find a way so that religious freedom in gay marriage can co-exist. We are a diverse country. We are a democratic country. We are a pragmatic country. Let us resist the urge to your politicize and polarize this issue and let us look for that sliver of common ground.

BLITZER: Ana Navarro, Sophia Nelson, thanks for joining us.

When we come back, there's major news overseas that could have a huge impact here in the United States. Greece is now perched on the edge of economic catastrophe. U.S. markets could, though, feel the pain as well. That means stocks, bonds, even your 401Ks, they could be getting ready to take a hit. We'll have a live report from Wall Street when we come back.

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[13:35:] BLITZER: Markets around the world are down right now. It comes after a flare-up of the debt crisis in Greece. That country is scheduled to make a massive debt payment tomorrow, $1.7 billion to be exact. The problem is that the government doesn't have the money to make the payment. Bracing for panic, Greece has closed its stock market and its banks until July 6th. And if you want money from that ATM over there, you can only take out about $67 a day. The fears over the debt crisis have now trickled down to U.S. markets.

Let's bring in Alison Kosik over at the New York Stock Exchange.

So first of all, Alison, how will the U.S. markets reacting?

ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, we've seen the selloff and the Dow pick up as the day has gone on. We see the Dow down 227 points. This is despite the fact that the U.S. has very limited direct exposure to Greece. I mean, think about it, Greece has had this financial crisis going on for many years, and what you've seen happen, at least for many investors, especially here in the U.S., they've taken their investments out of Greece so they don't have that kind of exposure. But I think the selloff here is more related to the fact that what we're entering here is unchartered territory. What would the global implications be if Greece doesn't pay its bills? It doesn't pay its debts? What would be the ramifications if Greece were to leave the European Union? It's that uncertainty, that fear that you're seeing play out in the markets today as, you know, what kind of shock waves could Greece cause to the U.S., and a lot of that is unanswered at this point -- Wolf?

BLITZER: You make a good point. There could be, in the short term, a much greater impact, negative impact on the European market. The Eurozone as it's called. If that market is hurting, that would have a spillover effect on the U.S. market and it could impact a lot of Americans, right?

[13:40:06] KOSIK: Exactly. But actually, what you're seeing in the European markets is much more blunted, believe it or not, than what was expected because, as one Goldman Sachs analyst put it, he said that Europe is actually better prepared this time around than, let's say, in 2011 and 2012 when we were in pretty much this exact situation with Greece before. It was facing an exit in 2011 and 2012. The difference now is that you're seeing European banks, they're in better shape. Also Greek debt is no longer widely held. So you're seeing those couple of things really put constraints on how wide this crisis could really grow. And so if it's not going to hit Europe as hard as, let's say, it could have a few years ago, you may not see it hit the U.S. as hard, either -- Wolf?

BLITZER: The White House clearly concerned. The president's been on the phone with Francois Hollande of France and Angela Merkel of Germany talking about this Greek debt crisis.

Alison, thanks very much.

KOSIK: Sure.

#: Coming up, we'll show you brand new video taken during that deadly terror attack at a Tunisian beach.

Plus, just how involved was ISIS in this terror attack? We have new information.

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[13:45:27] BLITZER: Breaking news. Two more Americans have been arrested and charged with conspiring to support ISIS. One is a 21- year-old from New Jersey, the other a 23-year-old from the same state. Both are accused of plotting to provide services and personnel to ISIS. Both were arrested as part of a wider investigation. In the last few months, dozens of Americans have been picked up, have been arrested, accused of supporting ISIS. And it comes just as the U.S. Secretary of Homeland Security Jeh Johnson is warning of possible, possible ISIS-related threats around the upcoming July 4th Independence Day weekend here in the United States.

The first arrests were made today in connection with last week's deadly attack at a Tunisian tourist resort. At least 38 people were killed when a lone gunman opened fire on the beach.

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#: This is new video taken during assault. The majority of the victims were British tourists. Officials say German and French tourists were also killed. Tunisia's interior minister says the first group has been arrested and claimed they were part of the gunman's network.

Joining us now is CNN terrorism analyst, Paul Cruickshank. Also joining us, retired Lieutenant Colonel James Reese, our CNN global affairs analyst and former Delta Force commander.

Colonel Reese, ISIS claiming responsibility for this brutal attack in Tunisia. There's apparently no direct evidence of that. What do you make of this ISIS claim?

LT. COL. JAMES REESE, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Wolf, we all know from what we've watched for months now ISIS will try to be the first one on the propaganda tour to show support for these lone wolves that are out there and try to keep this wave of momentum and excitement involved with ISIS. And as we've seen before, these people start, we've seen where in Tunis and Algeria across the northern aspects of north Africa, where the ISIS influence is strong right now, but, you know, fortunately for us it's not ISIS-driven, but unfortunate the Tunisians have this in an area where 15 percent of their GDP is concerned with tourism.

BLITZER: That tourism is going to be hurting as a result of this.

Paul, why Tunisia? Why this hotel? We know ISIS has a presence in neighboring Libya, but Tunisia's been relatively peaceful, obviously moderate.

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, relatively peaceful, Wolf. But of course, we had that deadly attack just a few months ago against the Bardo Museum in Tunis. ISIS claimed responsibility for that as well. I think this time around the ISIS claim, the local chapter of is claim is credible because they put a picture up of the gunman just a few minutes after the attack and the family has confirmed that that's one in the same gunman. So I think it is a credible claim from ISIS. The group is stepping up its attacks across the region during Ramadan. We also saw that deadly attack in Kuwait on Friday. I think there's real, real concern we're entering a period of maximum danger now over the next three weeks of Ramadan with ISIS' spokesman last week saying to ISIS supporters all around the world, "If you die for us during Ramadan, you'll get 10 times the rewards in paradise." I think there's significant concern not just in the Middle East but also here in Europe and also in the U.S. in the lead up to the July 4th weekend with recent evidence that ISIS isn't just grooming followers over social media but actually providing bomb- making instruction to them as well.

BLITZER: It's a good point you're making, a very scary point.

Colonel Reese, as you know, on Friday there were these three terror attacks in Tunisia, in Kuwait where 30 or 40 people were killed, more than 200 injured in that mosque on Friday, and in France, we saw what was going on with the beheading and ISIS claiming responsibility there, all within a matter of a few hours. Probably not directly coordinated but the message is going on through social media, go ahead and launch these kinds of attacks, right?

REESE: That is correct. Wolf, any time you see attacks that are near simultaneous. it gives credence to that threat side for ISIS, or Daesh, in the Middle East. It something we have to watch, especially copycat attacks or as ISIS is putting out these pieces. This is something our intelligence operatives know how to do. When they start to see these on social media and can start pushing them and look at different areas of the world that might have a near simultaneous attack, and it just goes back to show what terrorism does to the populous that these things are happening around. It starts making people get very uncomfortable and looking over their shoulders.

[13:50:17] BLITZER: And I just want to point out -- and Paul I'll bring you in. The Department of Homeland Security sent out a directive to all federal, state, local law enforcement authorities in United States: "We are encouraging all law enforcement to be vigilant and prepared. We will also adjust security measures seen and unseen, as necessary, to protect the American people."

This in advance of the July 4th Independence Day weekend coming up. What do you make of this?

CRUICKSHANK: Well, there has been longstanding concern that terrorist groups might want to strike during holidays. In fact, in bin Laden's compound in Abbottabad, they found sort of ideas to attack the United States during a holiday period. So there is generally more concern because clearly, symbolically, if some kind of ISIS-inspired attack were to take place, this would be a big propaganda fill-up for ISIS.

But I think the bigger danger is over the next three weeks, the period of Ramadan, leading up to about the 18th of July, because of this message that ISIS has put out to supporters that now is the time to act. And we've seen over just the past few days people take that up, Wolf. I think we're likely to see, unfortunately, a very bloody period over the next three weeks in the Middle East and also potentially in Europe, even the United States.

BLITZER: What do you think, Colonel Reese? Because as you know Jeh Johnson, the secretary of Homeland Security, said go about all of your July 4th activities, travel plans, do whatever you were planning, but keep your eyes open. What do you make of that?

REESE: Wolf, it's a new world. We've discussed this for over a year now. Unfortunately, for the rest of our lives, and probably for our children's lives now, we have to stay vigilant across the spectrum, whether on holiday, whether we're at work, whether we're traveling abroad or just here domestically. It's a new world. It's something our government have to take a look at. And you saw where the United Kingdom today said they are tired of showing tolerance to these things and the intolerance and they're going to start putting their foot down about that.

#: Colonel Reese, thanks very much.

Paul Cruickshank, thanks to you as well.

Another story we're following, someone is torching African-American churches across the south. Is it arson? Is there another explanation for these mysterious fires over the past few days? We'll update you on what we know.

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[13:56:53] BLITZER: Are a string of fires at predominant African-can American churches across several southern states connected? That's what the FBI and other law enforcement agencies are now investigating. In the past weeks, several buildings have suffered fire damage. In Florida, North Carolina, Georgia and Tennessee, all had fire that are being investigated.

CNN's Alina Machado joins us from Atlanta.

Alina, what's the status of this federal investigation?

ALINA MACHADO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, at this point, we know investigators with the FBI and ATF are closely looking at these fires. We're talking about six fires at churches in five different states across the south. They all happened within about a week following that massacre in Charleston. Now, three of those fires are being investigated as possible arsons. One of them happened at Breyer Creek Road Baptist Church, a predominantly African-American church that shares space with two Nepalese congregations in Charlotte, North Carolina. That happened in a building with classrooms and, thankfully, it did not affect the main sanctuary. Authorities there are emphasizing that fire investigators have not seen anything so far that would point to a hate crime, though it has not been ruled out. In fact, authorities have not called any of these fires hate crimes and also have not linked them. The investigations, though, Wolf, are active and ongoing.

BLITZER: What about the other churches?

MACHADO: We know a church fire in Gibson County, Tennessee, appears to have been caused by lightning strike. Another in Tallahassee is likely electrical. There was a fire at God's Power Church of Christ in Macon, Georgia. Authorities there are still trying to figure out the cause of that fire -- Wolf?

BLITZER: So as we watch what's going on, the federal investigation is under way. Obviously, they're trying to determine if there's a possibility these or some of these fires could have been hate related. Has anyone issued a hate statement or made any declaration that they are targeting these black churches for political reasons or whatever?

MACHADO: At this point, Wolf, we haven't heard of any statements being made, of anybody trying to claim responsibility for any of these potential arsons. But we know, again, investigators at both the federal and state level are closely looking at these fires and trying to figure out what was the cause, what is behind these fires.

BLITZER: There's a lot of buzz out there on social media, as you know, Alina. A lot of people are concerned.

The other question is are they stepping up security at these predominantly African-American churches throughout the south? Have you gotten any indication that that is happening? Because if that is happening, obviously, that's disturbing and unfortunate that it would be necessary.

MACHADO: Yeah, at this point, Wolf, we haven't heard of any particular instances in which churches across the south are stepping up security, but we know that following Charleston, you know, people are obviously going to be on this heightened alert. They want to make sure that nothing else happens like what we saw in Charleston.

BLITZER: Yeah, understandably so.

All right, Alina, thanks very much.

That's it for me. I'll be back at 5:00 p.m. eastern in "The Situation Room." Thanks very much for watching.

"Newsroom" with Brooke Baldwin starts right now.

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