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Republican Reversal on Confederate Flag; Brady's "Deflategate" Appeal Ends After 10 Hours; S.C. Voters: Take Down Confederate Flag. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired June 24, 2015 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:31:05] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right. There has been a stunning turn around on the right when it comes to this Confederate flag issue. After initially hedging, to put it nicely, Republicans are now basically lining up to get the flag taken down. Some are still arguing that this is just for the state, and they shouldn't be involved.

But there are polls in New Hampshire that are going to be motivating a lot of discussion about politics today, and especially the name Donald Trump.

So, let's discuss all of it. We have Alisyn in South Carolina. We have CNN senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny, and CNN national political reporter Maeve Reston.

It's good to have you all there.

Alisyn, I like having you. It's kind of like quasi-part of the panel. I think I'm just going to put a lot of questions to you that you don't want to answer.

(LAUGHTER)

CUOMO: Let's just start off, Jeff, with --

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Go for it.

CUOMO: -- what we see is this turn around.

Let me play this sound of Lindsey Graham, because I think he's provided a kind of a good metaphor for the turn around. Look at Lindsey Graham when he first said, what he's saying now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC), 2016 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The problems we have in South Carolina and throughout the world are not because of the movie or symbols, it's because of what's in people's heart.

I can't fix every problem in the world, in the state, in the nation, but we can start with the flag. It needs to come down. It needs to go to a museum. South Carolina needs to get this right. I'll do whatever I can, along with my colleagues to get the number of votes necessary.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Zeleny, one was Friday, one was yesterday. What happened?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: What happened, Chris, was all the Republicans in South Carolina, beginning in South Carolina, basically joined hands and made it a decision behind closed doors to go forward with this. They knew it was the right thing to do.

Lindsey Graham has felt this way for a long time, his aides tell me. But, of course, he was concerned about the South Carolina primary voters, how they would react to this. By doing it together, by sort of joining forces here, it made clear this is the way to go.

But, Chris, I'm not sure this is leadership. This is following something that happened here. The Chamber of Commerce in South Carolina has been calling for this almost 20 years here. So, not exactly on the front edge here of leadership.

MAEVE RESTON, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: Right.

CAMEROTA: Maeve, I want to ask you more about Lindsey Graham because I had interviewed him on Friday down here in Charleston. And at that point, he said he was comfortable with the set up behind me. He was comfortable that the Confederate flag had been taken down from the top of the statehouse, the dome, to behind the Confederate war memorial here. That was on Friday.

And so, now, in the space of four days, he's pivoted to thinking it should come down all together. But is that -- is that OK that he's evolved quickly on this?

RESTON: Well, I think there's a lot going on behind the scene that we're not seeing, necessarily in interviews. There was very -- a lot of hesitation within all the presidential campaigns over the weekend about exactly how to handle this issue. It's a very sensitive issue in South Carolina. Obviously, Republicans want to make sure that they are framing very issue within a state's rights context, even though a lot of people think they the Confederate flag does not belong in that framework.

And so, a lot of candidates were careful about how far they stepped out in front of South Carolina leaders. Lindsey Graham, obviously, canceled his political events, flew down and talked to you all on Friday. But I think he also has been wrestling with this issue for a long time, as Jeff Zeleny said, and did talk about wanting to reopen the discussion. I think that what happened with the massacre just moved people along more quickly.

And then, of course, Nikki Haley gave a lot of the other candidates political cover to come out and say what they did yesterday. CUOMO: Maeve, I think that is definitely the positive spin on the

dynamic at play here.

I think there's also a much more cynical and realistic spin which is, Jeff, they are worried about the conservative voting base there. It can't be a coincidence that many of the initial people on social media are popping up saying this isn't a hate crime.

[06:35:00] Why is everything about race? Maybe it's a hate crime if you mean against Christians, or now the same people saying that this flag doesn't need to come down, you are making a symbol, something of substance when it isn't.

I think they are plain scared these guys. That's why you're seeing these full throated defenses of state's rights as opposed to recognizing the leadership mandate of being president of the United States. Am I off?

ZELENY: No, I think that's exactly where this was in the beginning of this on Friday. I mean, you heard people like Marco Rubio and others saying, oh, this is up to the states. Well, I was actually waiting for some of them.

There are so many Republicans running for president. One of them just sort of break out and say, no, no, no, this is what a president does, he leads, or she leads on this type of an issue. And not anyone did. It took the leaders of South Carolina --

RESTON: Except for Mitt Romney.

ZELENY: -- joining hands and agreeing here to actually sort of make this decision together. Nikki Haley probably was leading the way more than any presidential candidates were.

CUOMO: Well, she should, because it's her state.

And, Maeve, you're right, Mitt Romney came out because he has nothing to lose by coming out, which only, you know, boot straps the earlier point. But it is no small irony, that this division between well, it's about state's rights versus this moral imperative, it's exactly the kind of conversation that started the major conflict that birthed this flag in the first place.

Maeve, let's talk about this poll out in New Hampshire. Donald Trump comes out and says, I'm number two? I can't believe I'm losing to Bush.

Let's listen to him real quick.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I can't believe Bush is in first place. You know, I'm -- some people are thrilled. I'm not thrilled because how could Bush be in first place? This guy can't negotiate his way out of a paper bag.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: I tell you, Alisyn, if we had Trump doing the marketing for our show, we might be the highest rated thing on television right now.

CAMEROTA: Let's consider that.

RESTON: I think the most important -- yes, the most important thing to understand here, though, with Trump, is that he has a very quick ceiling that he's going to hit. A lot of this second place finish for him right now is about name recognition. He also has the highest unfavorability ratings of any candidate both in Iowa and New Hampshire.

And so, unlike some like Bernie Sanders who has burst on to the scene, and have a lot of room to grow as a candidate, Trump doesn't have much room. And there are a lot of people who say they would, under no circumstances vote for him for president.

ZELENY: I mean, Donald Trump, if he's being honest here, he's thrilled he's in second place, because this is as high as it's going to get for him. He knows that. So, I'm not sure he's quite being genuine. But we love listening to him. We certainly love listening to him.

CUOMO: I'll tell you what, second place in New Hampshire is not so bad. If that's where he is right now, he's got to be feeling good about it.

Jeff Zeleny, Maeve Reston, thank you very much. Alisyn, we'll be back with you in just one second.

So, what do you think about all this? About what's going on with the flag, about what's going on with Donald Trump in New Hampshire? You can tweet us as always. Use #NewDayCNN, or post your comment on Facebook.com/NewDay.

Mick?

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Trump in charge of PR for our show, interesting concept, Chris.

All right. Here is another thing that I know you're all talking about. Tom Brady, face-to-face with NFL commissioner Roger Goodell for ten hours, appealing his four-game deflategate suspension. The big question, will the star quarterback be back on the field when the season begins?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:42:21] PEREIRA: Some headlines for you now.

Lawmakers in South Carolina agreeing to debate an initiative to remove the Confederate flag from the state capitol one week after nine people were brutally murdered in a black church in Charleston. States like Mississippi, Tennessee and Virginia also discussing changing their flags and banning license plates with the offensive symbol. Corporations like eBay, Amazon, Target and Sears all announcing they will no longer sell Confederate flag merchandise.

CUOMO: Prison worker Joyce Mitchell says it was in the meat. She put hacksaw blades in prison chopped meat and got a guard to unwittingly pass it along to the inmates, she says helping the murderers escape. Mitchell also made a habit of bribing other guards with baked goods to do favors for the convicts. Meantime, we're told, one of the escapees left his boots behind in the cabin. So, it is possible he could be on the run barefoot.

PEREIRA: North Carolina police have released the 911 call a father placed after his son destroyed religious figurines and poured gasoline in the house. Listen.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

SULLIVAN'S DAD: I don't know if it's ISIS or what, but he's -- I come home and he's destroying Buddhas and figurines and burning stuff. We're scared to leave the house.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

PEREIRA: His son can be heard yelling in the background to this father. Nineteen-year-old Justin Sullivan is accused of trying to support is. He apparently told an undercover agent that he planned to kill as many as 1,000 Americans. He faces up to 40 years in prison. It takes a lot for a father to do that, to turn his son in.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: Good. A parent's job is not to protect their kid from the law. You know what I mean? Because what about everybody else? What about all the innocents?

PEREIRA: No.

CUOMO: And whether it's bullying or something all the way up to this level of crime, too often, parents protect their kids and deny. Who know what is happens after that.

All right. So, ten hours, it was supposed to be four hours Tom Brady was given. The appeal over deflategate lasted ten hours in New York yesterday. Tom Brady gets the toughest defense he's ever faced in the NFL and the commish.

Andy Scholes has more on this morning's bleacher report.

Ten hours, that's a long time. How's that --

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: I mean, that is certainly a long time. I thought we talked about deflategate a lot. I can't imagine going for 10 straight hours in one room on the subject.

But that's what Tom Brady and Roger Goodell did yesterday in New York. Brady giving his side under oath to the commissioner. Sources telling ESPN that Brady gave an A-plus performance. It is up to Goodell on whether or not to uphold Brady's four-game

suspension. If he does, Brady's next move would be to take his appeal to federal court. The NFL has given no time line for when Goodell will announce his decision.

All right. Dodgers/Cubs last night, and this may be the catch of the year.

[06:45:01] A foul ball heading over to the stands and check out this dad. Bare hands it while holding his baby who is drinking a bottle!

Dodgers manager Don Mattingly came out and argued this was interference. He was right. The umps called the batter out.

But either way, check it out again. Look at the concentration. The bottle never leaves the baby's mouth. Moms not so impressed.

CUOMO: She's impressed.

SCHOLES: But, Chris, I can't imagine this. Would you have gone for the ball. I would say Adrian Gonzalez, you go ahead, you go ahead and catch that.

CUOMO: First of all, I've been watching on Instagram. I know what you are doing with your little man there. I think you probably would have tossed him in the air, caught the ball.

I think it's strong to be feeding the baby, strong, and make the catch, strong.

PEREIRA: Impressive, impressive.

SCHOLES: Amazing.

PEREIRA: All right. Let's leave it there and head up to Alisyn. She's in South Carolina this morning.

Good to have you there, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Hey, Michaela and Chris.

We are here to take the pulse of the people in South Carolina. How do voters here feel about the cataclysm that has happened in their state in just the past week, and what do they want to see happen to the Confederate flag?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It represents a dark chapter in our country's history. I mean, why do we have to be reminded of a terrible event in history that divided our nation and continues to do so?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:50:42] CAMEROTA: Welcome back to NEW DAY.

I'm here at the state house in Columbia to find out how South Carolinians feel about the Confederate flag, as well as race and gun rights following the tragedy here last week. We have assembled a cross section of voters at the historic Nathaniel Russell House Museum.

These are men and women, white and black, some are students some business owners, Democrats, Republicans and independents, and we had hoped to have a retiree, but it's a last minute she regretfully canceled to go to a funeral event for one of her friends killed in the church massacre.

So, here is what they are saying starting with the Confederate flag.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: Can I get a show of hands for those of you who think the Confederate flag should be moved from the state capitol?

All of you think.

I'll start with you, Corey, why?

COREY VAN HANNEGEYN, DEMOCRAT: To me, it represents oppression from slavery days.

WHITNEY RINGLER, REPUBLICAN: I agree. I think like what Governor Haley said yesterday, we are looking at the future now. Put the past in the past and move on to the future.

HEATHER HEATH, INDEPENDENT: I just don't think it represents our current state. I believe, I'm a proud South Carolinian, and I believe it belongs to the museum. I do think we need to appreciate our heritage, but it doesn't need to be at the top of our state capitol.

BO MADEO, DEMOCRAT: It represents a dark chapter in our country's history. I mean, why do we have to be reminded of a terrible event in history that divided our nation and continues to do so?

CAMEROTA: What do you think the state legislature is going to do? What do you think is going to happen here?

HEATH: I think, given the fact it's been brought up after this week's tragedy, I think it will come down, especially with the national attention we are getting.

CAMEROTA: Were any of you surprised that Governor Nikki Haley, in pretty short order came out and said unequivocally, it's time for it to go.

MADEO: I'm not surprised she came out. I'm not surprised Lindsey Graham jumped on board. It doesn't surprise me one bit.

ASHLEY CALDWELL, REPUBLICAN: What I think is interesting is the public opinion that's come out on social media talking about it. It shows that our elected officials are actually listening to the people, and it's a fantastic platform that we've never really had before.

HEATH: The fact that that flag wasn't lowered during the ceremony this past week for the victims, the fact that it is locked in place at the top, I think that was more hurtful than it had ever been to certain groups of people. I think that's probably a lot to do with what ignited the conversation again.

CAMEROTA: So, you are saying it wasn't lowered to half staff because it couldn't be?

MADEO: It's chained, padlocked up there.

CAMEROTA: Why didn't they lower it?

JOHN DODDS, INDEPENDENT: It takes a two-thirds vote of the Senate and the House --

CAMEROTA: To do anything?

DODDS: -- to move it in any sort of way. It's up there and staying until someone does something about it.

MADEO: I think it's a joke that we have to call anyone into session to do this. I think we should just send somebody up there, take it down and be done with it, personally.

CAMEROTA: Let's talk about the issue of gun control. Before this happened, gun control was not at the top of your list or what you will be deciding on in terms of 2016. Because of the tragedy that happened here last week, are you revisiting your attitudes about guns?

HEATH: No. I still think, as individuals, as citizens, we should have the right to bear arms. I think there needs to be more regulation.

CAMEROTA: Show of hands, who is comfortable with more stringent background checks.

MADEO: Absolutely.

CAMEROTA: Did you feel that way before this tragedy?

CROWD: Absolutely.

CAMEROTA: Did this tragedy change anything for you all?

MADEO: It changed my outlook on living in this area and just kind of realizing the deep seated racism that still lives. I mean, being from up North, I really wasn't exposed to it. Coming here, I hadn't seen those examples until this happened. It was shocking to see that somebody felt that way -- I mean, felt that intensely motivated to go out and kill people because of the color of their skin.

CAMEROTA: Can we blame Charleston? Can we blame South Carolina for what this gunman did? Is this indicative of the South or South Carolina? Or is -- are we misplacing that impression? MADEO: Well, you can't blame a state or a city just because something

happens.

[06:55:00] But you can blame the way that people, not think, but the way people raise their kids, the people interact with one another.

RINGLER: Well, the boy was 21 years old. So, a lot of it, he was raised in this manner as well. You know, so it's education. It's teaching the proper way to, you know, raise your children.

CAMEROTA: Corey, do you think that racism is alive and well in the South?

VAN HANNEGEYN: Yes. Yes. Based on living here and moving away from here and living in different states, it's still alive and well.

Here in Charleston, we are a little more liberal. But outside of Charleston, it's a different animal, going into small towns and experiencing actually overt racism, the way they try to talk condescending and take a stance back. Once they realize you are sort of educated, they sort of fall back.

CALDWELL: I think Charleston is not so filled with hatred and racism as other parts of South Carolina because a lot of people are transplants. So, it's a new energy that's in the city. I know, coming from Colorado, it has been a culture shock just seeing that there still are some places in areas in the state, not within the city of Charleston, that are really racist.

CAMEROTA: John, you are nodding. You grew up around here. What's your take?

DODDS: I wouldn't necessarily say racism is prevalent, but it's underlying a lot of interactions between people. I don't have an answer as to how that can change. I think it's indicative all of us, we live in Charleston. We're not racist. We are getting better.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: So, tomorrow, we'll have much more of that conversation with these voters, talking about all sorts of other issues they think should be at the core.

But, Chris and Michaela, I was struck they all felt the same way about the Confederate flag, because again, we did have Republicans, independents and Democrats. I thought that some of them would feel that it should stay up here at the state capitol, but none felt that way.

PEREIRA: It would have been interesting, but it was poignant to note the retiree you wanted to join, it would be interesting to get their perspective, but you're mentioning that she lost a friend in that massacre, the very reason that some of these conversations are so very, very important and urgent right now.

CUOMO: Younger group, also. That may speak to it. CAMEROTA: Yes, so true.

CUOMO: But there's certainly a diversity of opinion about this flag, whether people want their voices big or small right now. We are going to have on show, a man who wants to be president. He has a message for those fighting for the flag. His name is Dr. Ben Carson.

And he's coming up along with other news we are following this morning. So, let's get to it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PROTESTERS: Take it down! Take it down!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Walmart, Kmart, Sears, Amazon and eBay have all decided to stop selling the Confederate flag.

GRAHAM: God help South Carolina if we fail to achieve the goal of removing the flag.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The suspect looks like the suspect on the news from the Charleston shooting.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: New video showing the arrest of Dylann Roof in North Carolina.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He seems actually quite docile for a man who is accused of being a mass murderer.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The results of Freddie Gray autopsy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "The Baltimore Sun" reporting the injuries occurred while Freddie Gray was in police custody.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When the police arrest you and take you in custody, they have an obligation and responsibility to treat you a certain way.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: Good morning, everyone. Welcome back to your NEW DAY. I am live in Columbia, South Carolina. Chris and Michaela are in New York. We will be with them momentarily.

But when you're here at the state capitol in South Carolina, you see a couple striking things that I want to point out. First, the Confederate flag is directly in front of the capitol building. Now, remember, it was moved in 2000 off the dome of the building, in a compromise to people who felt that it had no place up there.

But ironically, in some ways, it is more prominent now. It is the first thing you see when you drive up.

Also, today, it is the one flag that is not at half staff. The U.S. flag and the state flag are at half staff to honor the victims of the massacre, but the Confederate flag cannot be changed. Its position cannot be changed without the general assembly approving it.

So, there is a lot to debate here in South Carolina this morning. CNN is covering it from every angle.

And we want to bring in Ana Cabrera, who's been here for days to talk about the sort of shifting political sand you've watched happened in just the past four days.

ANA CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's almost a whole cultural shift, as we're seeing sort of a groundswell movement, regarding racism in this country. That really is what this whole flag controversy is all about to so many people who believe the flag symbolizes this racist mentality that's rooted in history.

But, of course, the flag still stands here in front of the state capitol today. So, this fight isn't over yet. .

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), 2016 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It shouldn't fly anywhere.

CABRERA (voice-over): Presidential hopeful, Hillary Clinton, applauding the growing momentum for the removal of the Confederate flag in South Carolina.

CLINTON: Recognizing it as a symbol of our nation's racist past that has no place in our present.