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Tsarnaev Apologizes To Victims And Families In Court. Aired 2- 2:30p ET

Aired June 24, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[14:00:03] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, here we go. Breaking news here on CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Breaking news here on two fronts.

Out of Boston, the Boston Marathon bomber, this convicted terrorist here on your screen, this is Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, the younger of the two Tsarnaev brothers. He has just addressed members of the Boston courthouse here. These are the survivors who are in there, many of whom have given their victim impact statements, the victims' families. This is incredibly significant. This is the first time anyone has ever heard this man really utter anything. This is just before this judge here in Boston will be delivering Dzhokhar Tsarnaev's formal sentence.

As we know, because we took the breaking news, it was April 8th when he was officially sentenced to death. This is a formality.

I've got Danny Cevallos - CNN legal analyst Danny Cevallos with me, and also CNN law enforcement analyst Tom Fuentes.

But, Danny Cevallos, I mean first to you. How rare is it to even have this convicted terrorist addressing the courtroom.

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It actually happens in both federal and state cases. A defendant has an absolute right of allocution. And as much as defense attorneys will tell you that they tell their clients, you have that right. But for appeal purposes, I recommend you not exercise it. Ultimately, that choice is always, always the defendant's and not the attorney's. So defendants can do just about anything they want, although statistically I would imagine they usually do not exercise that right to address the public. So ultimately what to keep in mind here is that it is this defendant's absolute right to address the public and address the members of the courtroom.

BALDWIN: Let me jump in because, obviously, we have people inside the courtroom. This is a federal courthouse so cameras aren't allowed, so let me just read what we have from some of our crews who have been communicating with us outside.

We know that he has now finished addressing the court. He began apparently by acknowledging Ramadan and expressing gratitude to Allah. He thanked his attorney and he thanked the jury and then he said he's sorry. Let me quote Dzhokhar Tsarnaev. Quote, "I would like to now apologize to the victims and the survivors." He said, "if there is any lingering doubt, I did it along with my brother. I am sorry for the lives that I have taken."

I'm not quite sure if this is it, if this is all he said. The final thing he said, "I ask Allah to have mercy on me, my brother and my family."

We know, as we mentioned, he's been sentenced to death. And, Danny, can you just paint the picture, before we talk to our crew who's been inside this courthouse, because we know, you know, victim impact statements were given again today so that presumably these victims, their family members, are in this courtroom hearing these words. Paint this picture for me.

CEVALLOS: The sentencing in cases like this is always very, very emotional. And even in a case where as you said there is virtually nothing legal left to be done. Our system, because we focus on punishment and retribution, allows for victims to come in and address the defendant. And you have to imagine they have been thinking about this day and also whether or not they would ever have that opportunity because there's always a chance of a not guilty, however slight, but they have been thinking about this day and crafting their words. I find and I think a lot of defense attorneys and prosecutors will tell you that even though victims have thought about this for so long, when that day ultimately comes, often it's too much and they have to decline. Someone else maybe reads a letter from them because it's just too emotional.

BALDWIN: I can't imagine many dry eyes in this - in this courthouse, especially based upon that sentencing hearing and what we heard from those who were in attendance.

Danny, stay with me. I want to bring in Joey Jackson, who's on the phone. Also one of our legal analysts.

And, Joe, you know, Danny - Danny brought up the point that at the end of the day with the formality, with the sentencing hearing like this, where this defendant in any case is given the opportunity to speak, it is clearly up to ultimately the defendant in this case, this convicted terrorist, instead of an attorney. Are you surprised he took a moment to address the courthouse?

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: Brooke, good afternoon.

I am surprised for a few reasons and I'll tell you why. Number one, understand that, you know, he called the shots. There's no question about that. But there's an appeal here certainly that will be undertaken. So, you know, with respect to, you know, addressing the court at all, you don't want to do that because it doesn't impair your appeal in any way. Now, certainly just apologizing to the family doesn't do that, but you're always concerned as an attorney in terms of what he might say or whether he would go rogue. You know, certainly, you know, making gestures to Allah and that type of thing. And, you know, you have concerns about because he did it in Allah's name.

[14:05:10] The second reason is because you're concerned about, again, with regard to him going rogue, would he potentially say something that would be damaging or say something that would be antagonistic to the victims. And so, you know, in this particular case, he did not, which is a good thing.

But the third reason I would be really concerned about him and really what he said defying conventional wisdom in that he spoke at all is because his fate is sealed. The judge has no discretion here, Brooke. As a result of the jury making a conclusion that he should be sentenced to death no matter what he would say, it would not affect that ultimate decision, which is that he's going to die. So I am very surprise that he took the opportunity to say anything, although certainly, you know, the families and the lives that he impacted, they absolutely deserve an apology, although that does nothing at this point to change the history of what occurred here.

BALDWIN: Yes, I'm not so sure having spoken with so many of these survivors how - what an apology from this man really even does.

I've got a little bit more color that's just been handed to me, so let me just read this to all of you who are listening as far as Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, again, he sat - he actually stood in this Boston federal courthouse and said he was sorry, and ultimately owned it. Said, yes, my brother and I, we did this. Mentioned Allah, acknowledged Ramadan and also apparently he was standing, he was speaking from the defense table. We're told he spoke quietly and faced forward while he was speaking. So I'm not quite sure if he, at all, looked around the courtroom or made eye contact with any of the jurors or any of these victims or victims' family members. And the last note here, he had an accent of some type when he spoke.

I've got Ashleigh Banfield. She's just sat down with me and she, you know, covered this with me from when it happened two years ago, all the way through this process. And again, just, I'm getting everyone's reactions to, you know, for the first time hearing from this man speaking, saying again, "I would like to now apologize to the victims and the survivors. If there is any lingering doubt, I did it with my brother. I am sorry for the lives that I have taken."

What do you make of it?

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, ANCHOR, CNN'S "LEGAL VIEW": So I always wondered - I never thought Sister Helen Prejean was a liar, but I couldn't imagine what she was saying was true at the same time.

BALDWIN: Yes.

BANFIELD: I guess now we know it is. He said it in open court. It does not mitigate what's going to happen to him. Sentence has been passed down. What I am fascinated by is the potential of the appellate process. I wondered, Brooke, if he was going to waive his right to all of the non-essential appeals. You get a death penalty, you're getting one appeal whether you like it or not.

BALDWIN: OK.

BANFIELD: That's the way this country works. You can't fight that one appeal. But you could be like Timothy McVeigh and you can fight all the subsequent appeals and march right to the death chamber, which he did at Terre Haute, Indiana. I didn't think this man was going to do anything different than McVeigh. And I thought if he was going to stand up in court, he would give it his one last all for his cause. So I'm -

BALDWIN: And he didn't.

BANFIELD: I'm a little shell shocked.

BALDWIN: And he didn't.

BANFIELD: Yes.

BALDWIN: I think I'm a little surprised at that as well.

BANFIELD: Yes.

BALDWIN: Especially because - and I think it was no real surprise during the trial. He never testified on his behalf. But knowing, you know, and again, and I really can't wait to hear from Deborah Feyerick and those who were inside the courtroom, I cannot imagine the emotion, right, when we talked about the sentencing in early April, but to be a family member and, again, having to go back to this federal courthouse and, again, give these impact statements and, again, to share oxygen in a courtroom with this man and to hear him actually address people and say he was sorry, I suppose there is some power in that, but to me -

BANFIELD: I don't know.

BALDWIN: If I were these family members, I'd be thinking they're just words.

BANFIELD: You know, there is so much human drama that plays out in a courtroom. We think it's such a stalwart process and procedural, you know, event. It isn't. There are people whose lives are forever changed. They're looking for something. They're looking for justice. They don't even really know. I mean there are people like you and me. They've joined this unfortunate club unwillingly. And when you get to that point and you see these things, sometimes it's pretty hollow. Sure he said sorry, but what if he hadn't? Would it have changed their lives any? Probably not. I think they - from what I gather, from what their writings are, from their interviews, I think those victims' family members, loved ones and friends all say the same thing, and that is, I wish he would just go away.

BALDWIN: Yes.

BANFIELD: I wish the focus would no longer be on him and what he did.

BALDWIN: Yes.

BANFIELD: And instead be on us moving forward.

BALDWIN: As far as the tick tock, the formalities in the courtroom, Danny Cevallos, if we still have you, let me just ask you, because I believe we are still waiting now for this judge to address the courtroom. What will the judge say as far as, we know he will be sentenced to death. So how - what's the procedure here?

CEVALLOS: Well, in federal court, there really is a script that the judge will probably read from. It varies from place to place and judges have digression to sort of add to it or add their own sort of personal touch. But as we've talked about in this case, there is not - he will not be doing what happens in a lot of federal cases, which is calculating the guidelines, figuring out the range of years. There is none of that calculation, none of that calculus or math to be done here. It is a very simple thing. So other than reading the standard short form script, this judge might keep it very short, or he might take the opportunity to make a more - a more direct statement about what this defendant did and how it affected not only the community but our country and the world.

[14:10:40] BALDWIN: The country. And then, at what point does Dzhokhar Tsarnaev go on to Terre Haute, Indiana, and await his death?

CEVALLOS: Typically - typically what happens in the federal system, you go to a first location, a first place to be processed. And believe it or not, that takes a lot longer than you might think, weeks, maybe even months. And then eventually he will be transferred most likely to Terre Haute, unless they have some special process for this particular defendant.

Once you are sentenced, make no mistake about it, you become property of the Federal Bureau of Prisons. In fact they - the sentencing judge, it's a misconception that the judge even has any power to dictate where the defendant does his time. At best, that judge can make a recommendation. But it's very important for people to understand that one sentence, you leave the jurisdiction of the district court and you are now property or cargo of the Bureau of Prisons.

BANFIELD: OK. And, Ashleigh Banfield, it's interesting the point you made. And so you are, even though one is sentenced to death, there is one automatic appeal, but after that he could not fight it?

BANFIELD: Oh, yes. I mean that's what Tim McVeigh did. He was three years from the incident to his death, three years -

BALDWIN: That's pretty quick.

BANFIELD: It's remarkable. I mean, death penalties often take on average 20 years to carry out and there's a reason for that. If you're going to take someone's life, you'd better be damn sure you didn't make any mistakes. We afford an incredible appeals process to anybody who is sentenced to death.

What I keep wondering and I don't know if I've missed something. I'm sort of looking through my - my files here, is to whether he's actually going to go to Terre Haute. I know that's where you go to die.

BALDWIN: Yes. BANFIELD: But he's a dangerous offender. He's a terrorist who has to be kept from communicating with other inmates, which is often the case with these terrorists who are sentenced. He has to be kept from communicating with the outside world. That usually happens at Florence in the super max. So, I don't know if he'll be held at either or both of these institutions.

BALDWIN: OK.

BANFIELD: He doesn't need to be at Terre Haute right away.

BALDWIN: OK.

BANFIELD: We don't know. We still have an appeal to go through. It's going to take some time. Don't expect any movement for at least a couple years.

BALDWIN: OK, if you're just joining us, we do have the breaking news. We're covering the fact that for the first time we have now heard from this convicted terrorist, the Boston bomber, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, addressing this federal courthouse in Boston, Massachusetts, today. Just speaking, just standing at that defense table. We're told he spoke quietly, faced forward when he was speaking. Keep in mind, those people in the courthouse, victims, victims' families, and I can only imagine the emotion, right, swirling in this sort of environment today.

This is a formality. This is when the judge will officially, formally sentence Dzhokhar Tsarnaev to death. And, again, just to quote him, and, Joey Jackson, I'm coming to you next because I want - I have a question for you. We know he acknowledged Ramadan. We know he acknowledged Allah. He said, "I would like to now apologize to the victims and the survivors. If there is any lingering doubt, I did it along with my brother. I am sorry for the lives that I have taken."

Joey, what do you make of the fact that he brings his brother into this?

JACKSON: I'm sorry, Brooke, can you repeat that?

BALDWIN: What do you make of the fact that he mentioned his brother in this statement today - that he brought his brother, his older brother, who was killed, Tamerlan Tsarnaev, he brought him into this?

JACKSON: I mean, it's troubling. Obviously that's an understatement. The first thing, of course, is the defense. Think about how the defense really predicated what they were doing and their whole argument was about his brother and the influence of his brother and his brother made him do it and his brother is a manipulator and his brother's the mastermind. And so certainly, you know, when you bring his brother into it, it conjures up images of, you know, who influenced him, where was his heart when he did this. And, in fact, what was the real extent of his brother's influence, or did he act on his own and was it something that he really felt in his heart he wanted and should do? And I think we're left with the conclusion that certainly, although his brother could have influenced him, as any brother would, that his actions were those that were of a person who was thoughtful, reflective and knew exactly what they were going to do.

Well, Brooke, again, I'm just very surprise that he did address the court, that he did it, but I just want to address one other thing, if I could.

BALDWIN: Sure. Please.

JACKSON: And that's this. You know, we - we talk about the appeal process and we talk about what could happen from here, and many people are saying, you know, as many people did, that he wouldn't speak, but he did speak, and I was one of the people who said he - that I didn't believe he would.

[14:15:00] But on the issue of appeal, you know, we can't presume that he's going to be on death row for years and years and years. If you relate this case, for example, to McVeigh, Timothy McVeigh, the Oklahoma City bombing, tragic incident, so many people died and injured in that particular, you know, terrorist act. It happened in 1995, Brooke. He was actually indicted, it went to trial in 1997. And actually in '97 thereafter, when he was convicted and sentenced to death, he died in 2001 because he told his lawyers that, you know what, I don't want any more appeals and that's it. And so who knows whether, you know, Dzhokhar would do something similar to this.

And so I know the conventional wisdom is that now that he's actually being sentenced to death and now that this is the day of reckoning, there will be appeals, but we don't know that he'll be on death row for many years to come. It could very well be that as McVeigh, he could die relatively quickly. So I wouldn't even want to speculate about that.

BALDWIN: Right. Right. That was precisely the point that Ashleigh Banfield was making. And if we recall one of the three - the youngest of those three victims who died that day on Boylston Street two years ago, Martin Richard, his parents came out, you know, writing that op- ed in "The Boston Globe" saying essentially, you know, we didn't want him to die because they didn't want to be dragged through - I mean imagine the emotional woundings for years to come being dragged through the appeals process. So hopefully for these families, there will not be much appeals to come.

Let me just jump in with this. We just - we just learned that he has now been formally sentenced. Dzhokhar Tsarnaev has been formally sentenced. Let me just read this for you from our notes from inside the courtroom. As the defendant stood, the judge here, this is Judge George O'Toole, sentenced him to death on the charges which the jury had earlier returned this death verdict. On the other count, Tsarnaev was sentenced to multiple life terms, quote, this is a quote not from the judge today. "Whenever your name is mentioned, what will be remembered is the evil you did." This is the judge speaking just know talking to Dzhokhar Tsarnaev. "What will be remembered is you murdered and maimed innocent people."

Joey Jackson - and, actually, Danny Cevallos, let me go back to you because you were - you were bringing up the point, how will this judge, in this case Judge O'Toole, you know, address him. And he spoke directly to Dzhokhar Tsarnaev and reminded him what he did.

CEVALLOS: He certainly did. And, again, he did. And, again, it's his prerogative. After all, remember, federal judges, that's a lifetime appointment. It's a pretty secure job. So in a way it's a - it's surprising that more federal judges don't take opportunities like that. And in this case, this federal judge, no surprise. It's certainly within reason for him to address this defendant and deviate slightly from the script and tell him what the court thinks of this defendant and what the public thinks of this defendant, just as appropriately as the other members of the public or victims come forward and address this defendant.

Again, there isn't a whole lot of legal sentencing going on today. It is a formality, but within that formality is a very important part of our retrobuted (ph) - I'm mixing up the word, but the - our theories of punishment. The ideas that victims get to address defendants and so, too, does the court, and this is not out of the normal at all. It's certainly within judge's powers. And it's certainly based on each individual judge's style. But in this case it's no surprise that with a defendant and an act as horrific as this, that a federal judge might have an opinion and might express it to this defendant.

BALDWIN: Just a couple more notes. This is from Kevin Colon (ph), who we've talked to many times, phenomenal writer from "The Boston Globe" who is sitting there in that courtroom and he is saying this, he's quoting the judge. "I sentence you to the penalty by death of execution. On other counts I sentence you to life in prison. No monetary fines are imposed." Dzhokhar Tsarnaev has hands clasped listening, looking down, this is from Kevin Colon. The judge says, "you have the right to appeal. It's that we ask all the marshals to take the defendant now into custody." For the first time Dzhokhar Tsarnaev here today in court is handcuffed, his arms behind his back in presence of his victims and jurors who sentenced him to death.

Ashleigh, so, again, I go back to the sense in this courtroom, and we'll be talking to Deborah Feyerick hopefully as soon as we can get her outside of the courthouse, but what I'm trying to picture this. You have the jurors who sat for however many -

BANFIELD: Ten weeks -

BALDWIN: Ten weeks? Was it 10 weeks?

BANFIELD: Yes. Uh-huh.

BALDWIN: And family members and victims all sitting in there. I don't - I can't remember from the sentencing, didn't he - he had some family members testifying on his behalf.

BANFIELD: Some flown in from Russia.

BALDWIN: Some flown in, right.

BANFIELD: Sure. BALDWIN: So, tears today, I imagine.

[14:20:00] BANFIELD: So, you know, it's a weird moment, but I think that the significant thing that you just heard from Kevin Colon was that he's - he was asked to stand and he was handcuffed. There's something a lot of people miss, I think, in a lot of the drama that happens in a courtroom and that is that a jury - and, by the way, jurors who passed down that sentence were allowed to be there today.

BALDWIN: Right.

BANFIELD: They didn't have to be, but they could be there if they wanted to be.

BALDWIN: OK.

BANFIELD: They never once saw that man in jailhouse garb or in cuffs or leg irons. You can't. He's presumed innocent. You can't taint the view of the -

BALDWIN: It's the optics.

BANFIELD: The optics are critical when you've got a defendant at table, he's got to look like everyone else. For the first time, he looks like the murderer that he is. And that's kind of dramatic. I mean it's - it's awful, it's silent, it's dramatic and it's not lost on those who are in that courtroom either.

But let's not forget that we're still in the midst of this crisis and the death penalty in this country. He may be sentenced to death, Brooke, but I don't know if the death penalty can outlast the length of his appeals if he chooses that. We're at the Supreme Court right now. I expect by next week or the week after we're going to know whether we can even use some of these lethal injection drugs or if they violate the Eighth Amendment. So we're at a crossroads. It's hard to get these drugs. Many states have suffered, you know, just trying to figure out ways to put they're condemned to death. And so there could be a whole lot more going on in the life of Dzhokhar Tsarnaev independent of where he sits and what kind of cell he's in and what kind of lawyer he meets with.

BALDWIN: We'll come back to that. We now have Deborah Feyerick, who's our correspondent who's been all over this Boston story really since day one. She has been inside this courthouse.

Deborah Feyerick, really the floor is yours. Tell me everything.

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, people inside that courtroom were on the edges of their seat as he stood up and spoke for the very first time. I mean this was not only him breaking his silence, but this was also him apologizing for what he did. And I want to read this to you because it was - it was really just so dramatic. He effectively said, he said the bombing, "which I am guilty of, if there's any lingering doubt, I did do it along with my brothers." And he said he wanted to apologize to the victims and to the survivors as well. He quoted the month of Ramadan. We are now in the holy month of

Ramadan and he quote that had several times giving praise to Allah in what can be only described as a very thick accent. An accent which his friends have told me he simply didn't have when he was going through high school. But he said Ramadan was a time of forgiveness, gratitude, reconciliation, quote, "a month in which hearts change."

Now, there were victims and survivors who were in that courtroom, family members who were in that courtroom listening to all of this as he spoke. He didn't look in their direction. He addressed the judge. He thanked his lawyers for their companionship, thanking them for all the things that they had done for him and his family and then the judge essentially carried out the sentence saying that he was going to, "sentence you to the penalty of death by execution.'

And I'll tell you, Brooke and Ashleigh, the judge did not pull any punches. He essentially said to Tsarnaev, you had to redefine what it is to be an innocent person. Well, it was, quote, "a monstrous self- deception. You had to forget your own humanity." And then he sentenced him to death on the six counts on which he was found eligible for execution, and then he served him to the rest, life, consecutive, concurrent. We just actually lost count of all the different sentences that were just handed down, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Let me - let me back you up and just ask you, first and foremost, when you - when you mentioned Dzhokhar Tsarnaev and how he was looking directly at the judge when he spoke, so I take that to mean he never once glanced around the courtroom, never once addressed or looked eyes with any of these survivors or family members, correct?

FEYERICK: No, he really didn't. And that's actually an excellent point, Brooke. The one thing that he did do is he did acknowledge, you know, hearing the names of the victims, hearing them testify and this is something he hadn't done. When we were in court over those 10 weeks we kept saying, there's no emotion, there's no emotion. You know, why isn't he reacting to any of this powerful testimony? But he did acknowledge that he heard what those individuals said. He said he wished there could have been more people who were testifying. He understood or he acknowledged their names. He called them very good souls.

So - so it resonated. But, again, you have to - you have to go a little bit deeper and I'm sure Ashleigh could back me up on this. You don't know what the true motivation -

BALDWIN: Right.

FEYERICK: Of a defendant is when they're being sentenced to death. Is it because they truly in their heart feel this deep remorse, or is it something else? Are they possibly thinking about an appeal? Are they basically thinking maybe down the road when, you know, with time, a president can commute the death sentence. It's unknown. But he did do what many wanted him to and that is he acknowledged it was him and sincere or not he did apologize.

[14:25:04] BALDWIN: Deborah Feyerick, stay with me. You know, yes, it's impossible to crawl into the heart and mind of

this man, and to be honest, I don't think I really want to. But that said, we are actually about to hear from some of the victims' family members, some of the survivors themselves outside of this courthouse.

Again, breaking news, for the first time, members of this Boston federal courthouse have heard from this convicted terrorist, this murderer Dzhokhar Tsarnaev. We'll hear from those survivors on the other side of the break. Stay here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:30:00] BALDWIN: Welcome back to CNN to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Breaking news here out of Boston, Massachusetts. The convicted terrorist, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, has officially been sentenced by a judge in this Boston federal courthouse.