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CNN NEWSROOM

Joyce Mitchell's Husband Speaks Out; Prisoners' DNA Link Re- energizes Search; Manhunt Intensifies Near Burglarized Cabin; S.C. Gov.: Remove the Confederate Flag from Capitol; Prisoners' DNA Link Re-Energizes Search. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired June 23, 2015 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[09:00:01] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now on the NEWSROOM.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've developed evidence that the suspects may have spent time in a cabin in this area.

COSTELLO: They were here. The DNA says so.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just the point -- I'm not saying it's them, but he says, I know somebody broke in our camper. I saw one guy running away.

COSTELLO: As the manhunt heats up for two escaped killers, we're learning more about how they broke out in the first place.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Investigators are looking at the possibility that these inmates got tools into their cells through frozen hamburger meat.

COSTELLO: Also --

GOV. NIKKI HALEY (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: It's time to move the flag from the capitol grounds.

COSTELLO: South Carolina's governor says take down the Confederate flag. Now the sentiment spreads south. Will Mississippi demand changes next?

Plus, defending Tom Brady.

TOM BRADY, NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS QUARTERBACK: Good, bad, indifferent, there's a lot of people that don't like Tom Brady.

COSTELLO: The Patriots QB appeals his deflategate punishment. Will his four-game suspension stand?

Let's talk. Live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

New hope and a renewed energy in the hunt for those two killers who escaped from a New York prison just hours after a law enforcement source revealed the men's DNA was found in a burglarized back woods cabin. We're hearing more about the other central figure in this case, Joyce Mitchell, the prison employee accused of helping them break out. Her husband Lyle appeared on NBC this morning and discussed the moment the Mitchells learned that the two men were on the run.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATT LAUER, NBC'S "TODAY" SHOW: What was her reaction and what was your reaction?

LYLE MITCHELL, HUSBAND OF JOYCE MITCHELL: I just couldn't believe it. Her reaction, she said -- they really escaped. And that -- I left it at that.

LAUER: You've known her for 21 years. You looked in her eyes, nothing seemed unusual?

MITCHELL: Nothing.

LAUER: About her expression --

MITCHELL: She was shocked. And like I said, they want to talk to us because we know they have helped. So we went right to the police barracks and said you guys have been looking for us? He said, who are you? I said, Lyle and Joyce Mitchell. Yes, we have.

LAUER: And so at that point, Lyle, you had no reason to ask your wife, do you know anything about this escape?

MITCHELL: No, no, no.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: CNN's Boris Sanchez is at a makeshift police command post in Cadyville, New York, with more on this.

Good morning.

SANCHEZ: Good morning, Carol. This command post about 15 minutes from the Clinton Correctional Facility. We've seen law enforcement coming in and out of this post just about all morning. This after the strongest indication was found that these men are still in the area. DNA discovered inside a cabin that was broken into over the weekend that matches the DNA of Richard Matt and David Sweat.

Also for the first time this morning, we're hearing from Lyle Mitchell, the husband of Joyce Mitchell, who was accused of helping these men escape. Lyle telling NBC that he believes that his wife was manipulated by these prisoners. He says that she backed out of a plan to drive the men away from the prison after Richard Matt suggested that she drug her husband. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MITCHELL: She told me that Matt wanted her to pick them up. And she said well, I never leave nowhere without Lyle, never. And he said, well, I'll give you some pills to give him to knock him out and then we -- and you come pick us up. She said I am not doing that. She said, I love my husband. I am not hurting him. And she said, then (INAUDIBLE) in my head. She said, I can't do this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Another interesting note, Carol, Lyle Mitchell saying this morning he doesn't know whether or not he's going to support his wife or even potentially testify against her in court.

COSTELLO: Was there any mention, Boris, of, you know, the alleged sexual affair between Joyce Mitchell and these two inmates?

SANCHEZ: Well, Lyle told NBC this morning that his wife told him that Richard Matt had tried to kiss her several times, but she denied those advances. And she told Lyle that that's as far as it got -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Interesting. OK. And we have to talk about the tools smuggled in the hamburger meat because it's just so bizarre. Did Joyce Mitchell allegedly have a part in that?

SANCHEZ: Potentially. Investigators are trying to figure out whether or not she convinced a guard at the prison to pass the meat through without going through a metal detector, something that is against prison policy. Investigators looking into that as a possible way that these inmates got tools into their cell.

Now it's not uncommon for these prisoners to have food in their cell because they were in the honor block and prisoners there are allowed to cook their own food.

COSTELLO: Interesting. Boris Sanchez, reporting live this morning, thanks so much.

It is day 18 and the search for Matt and Sweat feels like a wild goose chase. Authorities started in Dannemora where the prison is located, and then they packed up for Erwin, Lindley and Friendship. And today they're in Owls Head thanks to a tip and DNA found in a remote cabin.

[09:05:12] Despite increased manpower, it is impossible to search every trail in this area. As you can see in this video, from CNN's Gary Tuchman, the area around that cabin is dense with forest, making the search extremely difficult. Officials are urging cabin owners to be cautious. Some residents have already left the area, others are hunkering down.

Listen to what a cabin owner told Gary Tuchman.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: When you went into the cabin, was there a little bit of concern about what you might find inside?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

TUCHMAN: Not at all?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not at all.

TUCHMAN: How come? You were armed? You were armed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was armed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Authorities now worry Matt and Sweat might be monitoring police radio communications.

Joining me now, former commissioner of the Boston Police Department, Ed Davis. He was the city's lead police officer during the manhunt for the Boston bombers.

Thank you, sir, for joining us.

ED DAVIS, FORMER COMMISSIONER, BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT: Good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: Before we get into the search, I want to talk a little bit about Lyle Mitchell and what he told NBC about Joyce Mitchell and, you know, supposedly these inmates wanted to kill him but he couldn't really articulate a reason for that. What did you make of that?

DAVIS: Well, it seems to me that she had more of a long-term relationship with these individuals. The only reason in my mind that they would talk about killing him is to allow her to go with them somehow. So it seems like that relationship might be deeper than he suspects at this point in time.

COSTELLO: Yes. And I wanted to play for our viewers some sound from Lyle Mitchell -- from Lyle Mitchell's interview with Matt Lauer about the alleged sexual relationship between Joyce Mitchell and these prisoners. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MITCHELL: She didn't know if I loved her anymore, she said. And they gave her a little attention, she said, this, it went too far. He tried to kiss her a couple of times. She said no. And she said that's when he started to threaten her a little bit on things.

LAUER: One of the other headlines, Lyle, that came out was that your wife Joyce had had sexual relationship with one or both of these inmates.

MITCHELL: Absolutely not.

LAUER: Did you ask her point-blank that question?

MITCHELL: Absolutely. She swore on her son's life, and her son -- I never, ever had sex with him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: I hate to put you on the spot, but do you believe him?

DAVIS: Well, that's a situation that is occurring between two people who have a long-term relationship. It's hard -- I mean, the problem with witness statements is you have to look on the other side, look at the evidence surrounding it and make a determination as to whether or not what they're telling you is true. And I think people can draw their own conclusions on this one.

COSTELLO: I think you're right about that, sir. OK. So the question about the search itself, it does seem like a wild goose chase at times because police seem to move the search all over the place. Now they're back near Dannemora because of this DNA found in this cabin. But do you think the search is going smoothly?

DAVIS: Well, it's going along as it should. You have to look at all the variables when they first get out. You don't know if they have an accomplice other than the woman. So they might have been in a car and traveled long distances.

The great thing about what's happened over the last 24 hours is all of those possibilities have now been eliminated. We know that no one is helping them. We know pretty much that they're on foot based on the bloody sock that they found inside the cabin. We know that they're pretty much at their wit's ends, trying to -- they've only traveled about 20 miles as the crow flies. So, you know, it is very good information that the officers who are leading the search can use in setting up a new perimeter and starting to collapse that perimeter mile by mile until these guys get captured.

COSTELLO: Thanks so much, Commissioner Ed Davis. I appreciate your insight this morning.

And tonight, a program note for you, you can watch CNN for a special report called "The Great Prison Escape." We'll take a deeper look inside this massive manhunt. Again, that's at 9:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN.

On the verge of history in South Carolina. In just about two hours protesters will rally to take down that flag. The action comes after Governor Nikki Haley took a stand.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HALEY: We are here in a moment of unity in our state without ill will to say it's time to move the flag from the capitol ground.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: We will take you to South Carolina in just a minute but we do want to tell you that President Obama along with his wife and the vice president will be in Charleston on Friday. The president will deliver the eulogy for Reverent Clementa Pinckney. He was one of nine people killed in Wednesday's massacre.

[09:10:06]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: A day after the South Carolina governor declared it's time for the Confederate flag to be removed from her state's capitol, a similar push is now happening in Mississippi. New calls for that state's flag to be altered. It features the Confederate battle flag in the corner. But it'll be a tougher fight in Mississippi because the voters there approved this design. I talked with Greg Stewart from the Sons of the Confederate Veteran who supports the flag.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GREG STEWART, SONS OF CONFEDERATE VETERANS: Well, actually doing what Roof what have us do and get involved and embroiled in shouting matches about banners and honor and none of that is going to solve any problems. You couldn't take down all of the flags and solve the problem that really is driving all this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[09:15:02] COSTELLO: But now, the world's largest retailer is adding its voice to the debate. As CNN first reported, Walmart says it will remove all Confederate flag merchandise from its stores. A company spokesman saying Walmart never wants to offend anyone with the products it offers.

Joining me now to talk about this from Columbia, South Carolina, CNN's Ana Cabrera.

Good morning, Ana.

ANA CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.

This is definitely a new energy out here this morning. I spoke with one man who said thanks for being here. This is a moment for South Carolina and change is coming. We know there will be more calls for change, greeting lawmakers running to the capital today to take up some budget issues.

There's going to be a big rally happening here in the next couple of hours for protesters calling to take down the flag. This, as more national, more state and more business leaders are joining this movement. You mentioned Walmart. And now, Sears as well removing Confederate merchandise from store shelves and online offers.

But as we discovered, it's taken a while for some of the big business in this state to take a position.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GOV. NIKKI HALEY (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: It's time to move the flag from the capitol grounds.

(APPLAUSE)

CABRERA (voice-over): Governor Nikki Haley, under pressure after the Charleston church massacre, has called for the Confederate flag to come down. This after years of defending the flag, and quite a change considering what she said last year.

HALEY: I spend a lot of my days on the phones with CEOs, and recruiting jobs to this state. I can honestly say I have not had one conversation with a single CEO about the Confederate flag.

CABRERA: Still, corporate America has remained largely quiet on this divisive issue -- Boeing, BMW, Google, and Volvo, all with major business in South Carolina. Combined, they invest billions, bring in millions, and employee thousands in the state, lured by friendly labor laws and huge tax incentives.

Yet, silence from most of them on the Confederate flag, prior to Haley's announcement.

(on camera): We did hear from Michelin, which has more than 9,000 employees in the state, operating 10 different manufacturing facilities. They want the flag to come down and are calling on lawmakers to do the right thing.

VAUGHN GRANGER, LOCAL BUSINESS OWNER: My opinion is, business is business. So stay focused on my business. That's all.

CABRERA (voice-over): Business owner Vaughn Granger, who's had a retail store near the capitol for over 40 years, believes it's not appropriate to offer an opinion on the issue.

(on camera): When it comes to controversial issues, does it make more sense as a business owner not to say something, because you don't want to alienate potential customers?

GRANGER: We have black customers, we have white customers, we have religious, financial, lawyers, doctors. I would never want to ever offend them, any one of those group of customers.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: I think it's important to note that we heard from Michelin prior to the governor's announcement. But then after she made that announcement at the news conference and called on lawmakers to take down the flag, we also heard from Boeing and BMW issuing statements saying they support the governor and her call for action.

But this is not a done deal just yet. Remember, it's up to the lawmakers to decide the flag's future. And it will take a two-thirds majority to agree to remove the flag. This is an issue expected to be debated here at the capital in the upcoming days and weeks, Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Ana Cabrera, reporting live from South Carolina, thank you so much.

It is astounding how fast the men running for president lined up behind South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley. Just look at Nikki Haley, surrounded by community leaders and politicos. See? She's telling the nation in careful language that it's time the Confederate flag come down.

In about two seconds, right after her announcement, her fellow Republicans fell into line. Even Senator Lindsey Graham who as late as Friday hedged on the issue. Here's what he told my colleague at the time, Alisyn Camerota.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: At the end of the day it's time for people in South Carolina to revisit that decision will be fine with me. But this is part of who we are. The flag represents to some people a civil war and that was the symbol of one side. To others, it's a racist symbol and it's been used by people in a racist way.

But the problems we have in South Carolina and throughout the world are not because of symbols, but because of what's in people's heart. You know, how do you go back and reconstruct America? I mean, what do we do in terms of our history?

COSTELLO: But after Governor Haley's speech, Graham says in part, quote, "After the tragic hate-filled shooting in Charleston, it is only appropriate that we deal once and for all with the issue of the flag."

CNN political reporter Nia-Malika Henderson joins me now.

Welcome.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Great to be here. Thanks for having me.

COSTELLO: Great to have you here because I know you are from South Carolina.

[09:20:00] So, when Nikki Haley went behind that podium and said what she had to say, did it surprise you?

HENDERSON: You know, it did surprise me. I was down in South Carolina on Saturday. I was covering that rally there. About 1,500 people showed up. There was a lot of momentum then.

But it seemed like it was unrealistic to expect that Nikki Haley would come out so quickly, even though that was what they were calling for her to do. So, I thought it was a big surprise that she was able to really get this tableau, of this bipartisan tableau of folks out there backing her.

And, of course, as you said, after she did that, she gave other folks cover. People like Mitch McConnell came out to also cosign on what she said, which is of course to take the flag down.

COSTELLO: What do you make of that, that these people running for president needed cover to talk about this issue?

HENDERSON: Well, I think if you look at the history of this debate in South Carolina, it has been fraught. If you -- think about somebody like David Beasley, who was the Republican governor of South Carolina, he took this issue on and failed to win reelection as a result. As the result, the Sons of Confederate Veterans were able to defeat him.

There's a lot of grassroots activity and activists in South Carolina. I talked to some of the folks associated with that group when I was in south Carolin Carolina, and they said they were already making calls to their representatives.

So, if you think about these presidential candidates eyeing that primary in 2016, they are thinking about that as well. They are thinking that a lot of those folks are very active, they're very vocal. Those are the kind of folks that vote in these campaigns. They're also looking at 2008 and 2012. Mitt Romney came out against the flag and people made radio ads against him back then. In 2012, the same thing with Newt Gingrich coming out supporting state's right, Mitt Romney was on the other the end, we saw what happened to Mitt Romney in that primary.

So, it's a very, very tough thing for these Republican candidates to come out against this flag.

COSTELLO: But Nikki Haley's gotten kudos. I mean, is it the changing face of South Carolina? You have Tim Scott, an African-American senator of South Carolina. Nikki Haley is, what, she's Indian, right? Indian heritage?

HENDERSON: That's right.

COSTELLO: These are the new faces of South Carolina. Isn't that a symbol of things to come?

HENDERSON: I think you're right. That was the argument she was trying to make, right? That South Carolina is the embodiment of the new South. That's a tag that a place like Georgia has really embraced. She was also making an argument for this being the new face of the Republican Party. You saw a lot of those national leaders there, folks like Reince Priebus.

I think what isn't clear at this point, if you're looking at these local officials who are also looking at primary races in 2016, they are the ones that are going to decide. And it could be that a lot of this national attention from folks like Jeb Bush, even from somebody like Nikki Haley could in fact make them dig in, right? They want to decide this in the state legislature.

And so far, it isn't clear whether or not this is going to be enough momentum to, (a), have them call in a special -- have them extend the schedule essentially because they need two-thirds of the vote to do that. It's also not clear whether or not Nikki Haley can actually call a special session.

COSTELLO: OK. So, I want to place a bet with you right now. Do you think it will be Jeb Bush or Marco Rubio who will want Nikki Haley for their running mate?

HENDERSON: You know, this is a good question. You know, I think she's going to be on the short list, that's for sure. She did a lot of good in terms of being looked at in 2016.

COSTELLO: All right. Nia-Malika Henderson, thanks so much. I appreciate it.

HENDERSON: Thank you.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM: it ain't over yet. A promising lead bringing new life into the manhunt for two escaped killers.

CNN's Sara Ganim following that search.

SARA GANIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.

Dozens of search vehicles rolling in to continue this search. But why authorities believe these two inmates they be able to stay one step ahead. That coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:28:17] COSTELLO: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

Tiny strains of DNA offer a big break in the search for those two escaped killers. Law enforcement source telling CNN that testing shows Richard Matt and David Sweat for inside a burglarized, deep-in- the-woods cabin, some 20 miles from their prison. For police, it raises hopes but also the danger that the fugitives are now pinned in and more dangerous than ever.

CNN's Sarah Ganim is in Owls Head, New York, the site of the latest search.

Good morning.

GANIM: Good morning, Carol.

This morning, we saw dozens of vehicles, six bus loads of searchers rolled in, but they rolled in during a pretty heavy rainstorm here, Carol. Something that's being plaguing this search many times during the 18 days that it's been going up here in the Adirondacks. I should tell you that authorities, though, are confident that this new lead, this new tip, DNA evidence, will lead them on the right track to catch these fugitives.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GANIM (voice-over): Hundreds of state and federal officers redeployed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a confirmed lead for us. We're going to run this to the ground. GANIM: Flooding this heavily wooded area in upstate New York over 20

miles from the maximum-security prison.

KEVIN MULVENHILL, OWLS HEAD SHERIFF: I don't think it would take a real woodsman to get on a power line and follow a power line to, say, an ATV trail.

GANIM: Authorities converging here after a witness spotted someone running from one of the area's many cabins on Saturday. Investigators finding the DNA of the escapees, Richard Matt and David Sweat, inside, the camp burglarized.

Officials worry the fugitives may be a step ahead of the officers, if they're monitoring police and radio communication.

MULVENHILL: It's very rough terrain. It's not easy to get to. It's not easy to traverse.

GANIM: A restaurant owner says he spoke to the person whose cabin was broken into soon after he made the discovery.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He stressed the point. He said, "I'm not saying it's them." But he says, "I know somebody broke in our camp, and I saw one guy running away."