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CNN NEWSROOM

Inmates' DNA Found in Burglarized Cabin; Community Unites as Manifesto Spews Hate; GOP Hopeful Grapple with Confederate Flag Debate. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired June 22, 2015 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:00] SARA GANIM, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. Yes, this Owls Head area near the Mountain View area is where police and searchers converged last night. More than 100 police vehicles. We saw them on all terrain vehicles, searching -- tactical teams searching through wooded areas nearby.

This is the Adirondacks region of upstate New York. So it's a lot of -- it's very rural. A lot of unoccupied cabins, vacation homes, hiking trails, biking trails. The things that police and searchers have been focused on since the beginning of this now more than two- week search. Last night they converged on this town which is only about 30 miles west of the prison where those two inmates escaped.

There's clear walking trails and roads that lead from the town of Dannemora where that prison is to this area. Now the Franklin County district attorney telling me this morning that on Saturday a witness who was checking on an unoccupied vacation cabin saw a man who ran out the backdoor of the cabin. It had clearly been burglarized. Law enforcement went in, investigated, found it to be a credible possible sighting of one of the two inmates who have escaped, and that's why the search has now led to this area here.

Of course, they're still continuing to search other areas, but very concentrated search in the wooded areas in this part of the region -- Carol.

COSTELLO: And Sara -- and Sara, and we can certainly see why. Again those two law enforcement sources telling us that evidence collected from that cabin you spoke of, Sara, had DNA leftover. When the DNA testing was complete, DNA from both of those fugitives was found on personal items.

I want to bring in Gerard McCann, he's a former senior inspector with the U.S. Marshal Service.

Welcome back, sir. I'm glad you're here. I'm glad you're still here. So this is -- this is good, right?

GERARD MCCANN, FORMER SENIOR INSPECTOR, U.S. MARSHAL SERVICE: This is great news, Carol. This says they're not in Canada more than likely. They're not in Mexico, and they may not have had the plan or the degree of help that we were beginning to think they might have had.

COSTELLO: Exactly. And that this woman, this neighbor, who spotted them running out -- you know, running out of the cabin, and she spotted them along the railroad tracks, that probably means that was a very credible sighting.

MCCANN: I would say that coupled with the DNA. I mean, that's a grand slam, and any time that you can make up ground and get days ahead on your chase is a good day. You're basically -- you're basically restarting from that point as opposed to back from the prison.

COSTELLO: Explain that more for me. So the noose is tightening. So how are they tightening the noose now?

MCCANN: Well, they're probably be setting up a wide perimeter in the area. They'll determine what time the sighting was. If they're on foot, how far they could have traveled. They'll set the perimeter out to that distance to try to keep them contained. They'll bring the dogs back in. They might bring the aircraft back in. They'll have guys on the ground, guys on the ATVs, and they will just start running a ground search like they did right from the start.

COSTELLO: OK. Gerard, stand by. I want to go to Alexandra Field right now. She has more on these findings from inside this cabin.

Alexandra, what can you tell us?

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Carol. These are important findings because now we're talking about DNA evidence. Again, law enforcement sources telling us that items were removed from the cabin that within 24 hours they did DNA testing and that they linked these items, the DNA that was found there, to the two fugitives who had been on the run.

Carol, of course, this is really important in the context because every lead that police have been acting on have really been about apparent sightings, reported tips, people calling in saying that they see fugitives who match the description. We know that police have been fielding these hundreds and hundreds of tips coming in from all around the state and really well beyond that trying to chase down the leads that they feel are credible, which is exactly what happened here in Allegheny County over the weekend when you saw 300 law enforcement officers mobilizing 300 miles southwest of the prison because they thought they had a credible tip.

When you start talking about DNA evidence, this is important. It's the first time that we've heard from police that they could have DNA linking a location to these two fugitives. Of course, there are a lot of questions that now come into play. You've got these reported sightings that are being called credible sightings of at least one of the fugitives being near that cabin or leaving that cabin.

We're going to have to wait for some clarity from investigators and police about how long the fugitives may have been in this cabin, when exactly they may have been there. So those are the outstanding questions here, but you've got to think that law enforcement considers this a pretty significant break. Also very interesting, Carol, that this is coming not too far from the

prison itself. This is over in Franklin County, and you've had all sorts of officials, law enforcement and state and government officials, saying it's possible that those men could be in the area. It's possible they could be well beyond the area. This gives them a new starting point just a week after they had said that they felt that the trail had gone cold near the prison -- Carol.

[10:05:05] COSTELLO: All right. Alexandra Field, thanks so much.

I want to go back to Sara Ganim because there's another development that happened over the weekend in this story. Another prison employee is being investigated. So tell us that part of the story -- Sara.

GANIM: Yes, that's right. As the search continues in many different parts of the state, the investigation also continuing. Over the weekend we learned that a 57-year-old male corrections officer, a guard, his name is Gene Palmer, was placed on paid administrative leave as part of this investigation. His attorney telling me yesterday it's because he received one of the paintings that Richard Matt, one of the fugitives, painted while he was behind bars.

Now we know that those paintings have been a big part of this investigation because Joyce Mitchell, the prison seamstress who's already been charged with helping these two inmates escape by providing them tools, she also received one of those paintings. Now we've learned a second employee got this as a gift, a painting done by Richard Matt.

Now his attorney, Gene Palmer's attorney, told me, however, he said, look, he was a guard on the block where they lived. He had daily contact with these two men, daily contact with Joyce Mitchell, but he said 100 percent, he denies any knowledge of this escape plan before it happened. He said, in fact, he was on vacation. He wasn't at work the night that it happened. That he was scared because he lives just a few blocks away from the prison, but he told me that he's been cooperative, that he was interviewed over the weekend.

His home was searched over the weekend. Of course, there's always the possibility of charges. The district attorney telling FOX News over the weekend that charges could be filed, but his attorney specifically saying he is being cooperative. He believes that he did nothing wrong and that he was manipulated by these two men. Of course, no charges yet have been filed against this additional guard, Gene Palmer -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Sara Ganim, thanks so much. Alexandra Field, thanks to you. Gerard McCann, thanks to you as well.

Again, that breaking news, authorities in Franklin County, New York, not far from that prison in upstate New York, found DNA of both inmates inside of a remote cabin. They are now searching that area, as you might expect. Of course, we'll keep you posted.

Turning now to Charleston, South Carolina, and a study in contrast. A few days after the church shooting rampage, a heartbroken community comes together, and the hateful ramblings of a killer spew out. Investigators dissect the 2,000-word racist manifesto linked to confessed gunman Dylann Roof.

CNN's Alina Machado live in Charleston with more. Good morning.

ALINA MACHADO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. This was a weekend here in Charleston of remembrance and healing even though that manifesto surfaced.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MACHADO (voice-over): Lone wolf mass murderer Dylann Roof behind bars this morning awaiting his bail hearing for murder charges set for October.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is your age?

DYLANN ROOF, SUSPECT IN CHURCH SHOOTING: Twenty-one.

MACHADO: This as investigators are looking into a 2,000-word racist manifesto on a Web site registered to the suspect, written before Roof killed nine people during a bible study inside Charleston, South Carolina's historic Emanuel AME Church. The author writing he became fixated on the idea of, quote, "black on white crime," after Trayvon Martin's death. His online search led him to the online propaganda of the Council of Conservative Citizens.

There he found, quote, "pages upon pages of these brutal black on white murders." It's not clear what incidents he was referring to. The manifesto continues, quote, "Someone has to have the bravery to take it to the real world. And I guess that has to be me."

MAYOR JOE RILEY (D), CHARLES, SOUTH CAROLINA: We've got to use this heartbreak in a most positive way. How we can be better, how we can do more.

MACHADO: In Charleston Sunday, marchers joined hands to form a unity chain in memory of the nine victims.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Only love can drive out hate.

MACHADO: On Sunday morning, church bells rang throughout the historic city. Inside the Emanuel AME Church, the theme was healing, not hate.

REV. DR. NORVEL GOFF SR., 7TH DISTRICT AME CHURCH: We as a group of people can come together and pray and work out things that needs to be worked out to make our community and our state a better place.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MACHADO: Now there will be several public viewing of Reverend Clementa Pinckney's casket not just at the state House but also another part of the state. And his funeral is scheduled here in Charleston on Friday. Funeral arrangements for the other victims are still being worked out. Now also it is worth noting, Carol, that the Council of Conservative

Citizens is condemning the killings but they are still standing by the inflammatory content on their Web site.

COSTELLO: All right. Alina Machado, reporting live from Charleston this morning. Thank you.

[10:10:01] Still to come in the NEWSROOM, the struggle over the Confederate flag is not just limited to South Carolina. Why it has some Republican presidential hopefuls split on the issue.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: In the aftermath of the Charleston church massacre, citizens in South Carolina and beyond are urging the state to remove the Confederate flag that flies over the state capitol. Critics say it's a symbol of hatred. Supporters argue it's one of heritage.

The issue even finding its way into the 2016 campaign trail after the party's previous nominee Mitt Romney tweeted his support for taking that flag down. Jeb Bush noting that while Florida governor, he moved the flag to a museum.

[10:15:13] Lindsey Graham, South Carolina's senior senator, saying maybe the flag's location should be revisited given its ties to the Charleston gunman. Still others say the issue is one that needs to be decided by South Carolinians.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The state of South Carolina has dealt with this issue in the past. They've done so in a way that brought people together. The current location was the result of a bipartisan agreement that that state came to over 15, 20 years ago, and if, in fact, they were going to take up that issue now, I'm very confident that they're going to make the right choice for the people of South Carolina in a way that all of their people are comfortable with. They've shown a capacity to be able to do that.

MIKE HUCKABEE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I feel like it's not an issue for a person running for president. Everyone is being baited with this question as if somehow that has anything to do whatsoever with running for president, and my position is, it most certainly does not.

RICK SANTORUM (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I take the position that the federal government really has no role in determining what the states are going to do.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: You're a candidate for president.

SANTORUM: I'm also --

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you not have a position on this at all?

SANTORUM: I'm not a South Carolinian and I think this is a decision --

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: It's beyond South Carolina.

SANTORUM: I would say that these are decisions that should be made by people. You know, I don't think the federal government or federal candidates should be making decisions on everything and opining on everything. This is a decision that needs to be made here in South Carolina.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: All right. Before we get to the deeper question here, because really the real question is, should we really be focusing on a flag or are we skirting more important issues? With me now, Charles Blow, opinion writer for the "New York Times" and Tara Setmayer, former communications director for Republican Congressman Dana Rohrabacher.

OK, so, whenever I hear a politician say, oh, it should be up to the individual states to decide, I look upon that as a punt. What about you, Charles?

CHARLES BLOW, OP-ED COLUMNIST, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Well, I mean, there's a big states rights strain in the Republican Party. Right? That is a big part of the platform and they default to that --

COSTELLO: But surely they have an opinion.

BLOW: That -- that would be my take. I mean, Tara here -- Tara can talk about whether or not that should be the Republican Party's opinion, but that is my opinion that you should be able to take a stand on anything just to say your opinion. You can say, I believe that it should be in their purview, however if it were me, I would do this or that, right?

COSTELLO: So why don't they say that, Tara?

TARA SETMAYER, FORMER GOP COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, CAPITOL HILL: Yes, I have to say that I am disappointed in the Republican candidates who have not just come out and taken a stance on this. I think enough is enough now with the Confederate flag issue. It's pretty clear that in 2015 the Confederate flag should not be flying over anybody's capitol, it should be in a museum, or, you know, some people can make the argument about well, it's, you know, over war memorials.

Perhaps but I don't think it should be in any official state capacity anymore. The history is just too painful. It's clearly obvious that whatever the altruistic value of the Confederate flag had for, you know, soldiers and those who fought and the heritage of the South, that is far outweighed by the history -- more recent history of what that flag represents. So I personally would like to see the Republican candidates take a stance on this.

Now I do agree that it is a state's rights issue. I do agree that that is -- that is a valid point. We have a Tenth Amendment for a reason. I don't think the president should be dictating, you know, by fiat what individual states should do for something like this, but I don't see anything wrong with saying that, and also for like a Marco Rubio to come out and say, and I personally as an American look at this and find this symbol reprehensible, and I think it's time for it to stay in a museum and no on state capitol.

BLOW: That's right.

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: Because at some point --

SETMAYER: They should (INAUDIBLE) for it.

COSTELLO: Is it really that dangerous politically to say that the Confederate flag might represent --

BLOW: Well --

SETMAYER: Apparently it is.

BLOW: In the GOP it is, right? So CNN itself in 2011 issued a poll that said that 40 percent of Republicans identify more with the Confederacy than with the Union, right? So this is a real issue for their base voters and for Tea Party voters that percentage was even higher. These are the people who are going to show up and go through those primaries. And so you look at these politicians, you have to look at the politicians not as principled people necessarily, not that they're unprincipled in general, but the political process is not so principled.

So it is about primaries and about getting through those primaries and getting elected. If you see your path to being the nominee as going through the South, and South Carolina being one of the very first primaries in the South, then you may not want to ruffle those feathers. And if people like Mitt Romney who are removed from the process who are thinking about the party as a whole are thinking more about, is this a kind of barrier to entry for people who might be able to expand the party?

Well, if you're in the primaries and you think your path is through the South, that's not what you're thinking about. You're thinking about don't ruffle those feathers and that is what they're doing.

COSTELLO: I want to get into something before we run out of time because, you know, I talked about it at the beginning that we should be talking about real issues, maybe not per se the flag. So I'll pose this to both of you. Last year a study by the Center for American Progress ranked South Carolina as the ninth poorest state in the nation with one of the highest rates of child poverty. Median income was just over $23,000 a year, $15,000 a year for African-Americans.

So should policies and not the flag be a bigger concern?

[10:20:13] SETMAYER: Of course it should be, and I think that's the point of some of these candidates saying that this is really not a national issue. We should be talking about things like what's plaguing South Carolina, the statistics you just brought up. That's plaguing a lot --

COSTELLO: They're not saying that, though.

SETMAYER: Not yet. But they're -- well, because they're being asked about questions about like the Confederate flag.

BLOW: What do you make of someone killing people --

SETMAYER: Yes -- no.

BLOW: -- and having a flag, that is, you're going to be asked those questions. You have to be able to respond.

SETMAYER: Right.

BLOW: Right.

SETMAYER: They should have been more unequivocal on their positions instead of dragging it on because by not being more unequivocal it is allowing this to go on and it is distracting from other more important issues. And I think someone who's going to be a leader on this issue will be Senator Tim Scott in South Carolina. He's an African- American, he's a Republican, he understands the history, he's been through it and I think --

COSTELLO: Yes. But even he is not expressing his opinion quite yet.

SETMAYER: He is.

BLOW: He basically said that after this is all over and the dust settles, we're going to have a conversation about race.

SETMAYER: Which I think is fair.

BLOW: And I'm thinking to myself, where have you been, Tim? We've been having this conversation for like two years. So --

(CROSSTALK)

SETMAYER: Maybe he's working on issues like education and body cameras with police officers.

BLOW: Yes, but --

SETMAYER: Issues that are a little bit more important policy-wise to the citizens of (INAUDIBLE).

BLOW: We have to understand, South Carolina's centrality to the civil war and what that means, right? The first shots of the Civil War fired at Fort Sumter in South Carolina. This flag may be -- may go down last in South Carolina. And we have to understand --

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: It's really disturbing.

BLOW: I understand that.

SETMAYER: I think this may be -- I think this may be the final act of the Confederate flag issue, and I'm hoping that the people of South Carolina make the right decision and they came to the compromise back in 2000. You know, they moved it just on the grounds, and I think that they'll -- after something like this, I think that the people of South Carolina will do the right thing.

COSTELLO: All right. Tara Setmayer, Charles Blow, thanks so much. I appreciate it.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, more on the breaking news out of New York. The search closes in on those two escaped killers. Yes, they found their DNA in a cabin. We'll have more on that in a live report coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:26:25] COSTELLO: A major break in the hunt for two cold-blooded killers on the run. Two law enforcement officials telling CNN DNA from those escaped inmates, Richard Matt and David Sweat, was found on personal items inside a burglarized cabin in Franklin County, New York. Now that's just about 25 miles away from where those inmates tunneled their way to freedom.

In just a few hours we're expecting officials to hold a news conference. For the latest on the search, I want to bring in CNN's Alexandra Field. She's tracking all of this. Tell us more.

FIELD: Well, Carol, law enforcement sources are saying that they collected the evidence, they found the DNA, they processed it within 24 hours but they were searching that cabin because they had a credible sighting that was reported. Somebody was checking on this cabin in the Mountain View area of Franklin County and reported seeing someone run out the backdoor of the cabin, also suggesting that it appeared the cabin had been burglarized.

The sources are telling CNN that the evidence collected were various personal items. That's where they retrieved the DNA belonging to both of the fugitives Richard Matt and David Sweat. We are waiting for a press conference that will come up around noon today where we should be hearing more from state police and other law enforcement officers who are investigating, but the sighting coupled with these reports of DNA evidence have now certainly refocused the search on this area within Franklin County. Law enforcement sources being deployed, not just local and state, but also federal law enforcement officials all descending on that area trying to determine where these fugitives might be at this point.

But, Carol, it's very interesting, for the first week or so after the inmates had escaped, the search was tightly focused on the area in and around the prison. Law enforcement officials and government officials then conceded it was possible the fugitives might still be in that wider area, but possible they could be just about anywhere. It seemed at one point that the trail had gone cold. The tips were coming in from everywhere, including Allegheny County where I am right now, some 300 miles southwest of the prison.

But certainly this credible sighting paired with these reports of the DNA evidence would suggest that law enforcement officials are keyed into this new search area now and that it could be the break that they have been waiting for.

COSTELLO: OK. Just to clarify, this sighting of two people running from a cabin, when did that sighting occur?

FIELD: We know that law enforcement descended on this cabin sometime yesterday and that they were keeping a close eye on it. They had enough time to then go in, collect the evidence, do the 24-hour processing before coming back. These sources telling CNN that these are positive matches for the two fugitives, so this cabin has become an area of focus just within the last day.

We're going to have to wait to learn more from police about the specifics of the timing, this person who went and approached the cabin, went to check on it and then saw this person running out because people are, of course, going to ask, DNA evidence, how long could that have been in there. So we're going to have to wait to see how closely investigators could link these fugitives to actually being there versus the DNA which they had said they had found within the cabin itself.

COSTELLO: All right. Alexandra Field, stand by. We may get back to you. Thanks so much.

I want to talk more about this, though. Jonathan Gilliam is a former FBI special agent, as well as a former police officer and Air Marshal, and former county jail warden Patrick Johnson, now a criminal justice professor at SUNY-Fredonia joins us as well.

Welcome to both of you. Thanks for being here.

JONATHAN GILLIAM, FORMER FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Good morning.

COSTELLO: Good morning. So, Jonathan, I want to start with you. How close are they to finding these guys?

GILLIAM: Well, I think that the combination of the sighting and the DNA is probably the perfect storm as far as the tip goes. Before it's just been sightings but now they actually have trace physical evidence that they were there.

[10:30:03] I think the only thing that's going to set them back a little bit is the question that you asked a minute ago. How long of a time was it before that tip came in and they were able to get officers out there.