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Worshippers Fill the Pews of Emanuel AME; Obama: I'm Not Politicizing the Issue; Police Swarm Rural New York County; Interview with Houston Rockets' Dwight Howard; Remembering the Victims. Aired 6- 7p ET

Aired June 21, 2015 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[18:00:11] POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Six o'clock Eastern this Sunday evening. I'm Poppy Harlow, joining you live from New York.

And we begin in Charleston, South Carolina, and a house of worship once again filled with beautiful voices of faith. Hundreds filling the pews of Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church today, singing, praying and remembering nine lives taken in a horrifying act of brutality.

One of the victims was the church's pastor. His social seat shrouded in a black cloth. But beyond honoring those victims, the service focused on action.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REV. NORVEL GOFF, EMANUEL AME CHURCH: It has been tough. It's been rough. Some of us have been downright angry. But through it all, God has sustained us.

There's a time and place for everything. And now, it's a time for us to focus on the nine families.

Oh, I know I'm right. So I want to say to the citizens of Charleston and visitors, thank you. For being whom God has called you to be. Thank you for your flowers out front. Thank you for the cards and the e-mails and all the acts of kindness.

And then finally, I want to say thank you to law enforcement. I got no problem in doing that. I want to thank them.

Respect gets respect. A lot of folk expected us to do something strange and to break out in a riot. Well, they just don't know us.

And we are going to hold our elected officials and others accountable to do the right thing. The blood of the Mother Emanuel Nine requires us to work until not only justice in this case, but for those still living in the margin of life. Those who are less fortunate than ourselves, that we stay on the battlefield until there is no more fight to be fought. And for that, we say thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP) HARLOW: In just a few hours, what is being called a unity chain will be held across a bridge connecting Charleston to the city of Mt. Pleasant. People planning to hold hands across the more than two aisle -- two-mile long stretch.

CNN's Martin Savidge is live for us in Charleston.

Martin, you were inside the church today. It was riveting listening to it from afar. What was it like being there?

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, I've struggled. I found every time I try to talk about what it was like to be there, it's almost like the cliche, you really had to be there to understand.

Going in, of course, there was nerves because there's security. And you're also going into a church service where the tragedy that people are remembering is -- well, that church is where the tragedy happened. So, it elevates the level of emotion there.

I think before the service began, when everyone was sitting down, when there was no music, they were worried. But then that grand organ began to play and then the choir began to sing, and suddenly, you just looked at one another and realized, you know what, it is going to be all right.

And from there on out, that service became a remarkable point of healing. It was not, though, without, of course, the direct references. How could you not forget the nine people died? Anybody going to the church regularly would miss every single one of those nine faces, especially because one of them was the reverend of the church.

So, there were painful reminders, but there were also times people were up on their feet celebrating and joyous. And then, there were other times they literally had collapsed in grief and others congregants came around and held them and supported them and loved them. And it was just really, really amazing.

You know, I want to read you one quote that was just so amazing. It came from the sermon. It said, "A lot of folks expected us to do something strange and break out into a riot. Well, they just don't know us. We are a people of faith."

And that is direct upfront, of course, to the suspect who carried out this attack, because he had stated to law enforcement he wanted to trigger a race riot.

[18:05:08] It didn't come close. In fact, just the opposite. Unity is what you felt -- Poppy.

HARLOW: That's exactly when I heard that this morning, I stopped. I stopped and I said he's exactly right, this speaks about the nature of the people of Charleston. You've been down there since Thursday morning right after this happened.

What has it been for you like personally as a journalist trying to cover this and what has stood out to you most, I guess, about just the people you've met there?

SAVIDGE: Right. Every day you come across people, a lot of them of course are from Charleston who have to be here. They're all drawn to the church. And I'm drawn to the church. I find every day, in the morning, I go there before the day begins, before I start reporting, and I usually go there in the evening.

It's a place you find enrichment. It's a place you come to grieve over what is a horrendous tragedy for everyone. And it's a place where you leave with a spirit that somehow is still uplifted, despite the fact that we're there to note the passing and loss of a terror attack that killed nine lives.

So, I think Charleston as most people have seen by now has been remarkable in the way that it has coped through what is an extraordinarily difficult tragedy.

HARLOW: Yes. Martin Savidge, thank you for the reporting throughout. I think we're all going to remember the beautiful, beautiful service this morning in Charleston.

Martin Savidge, thank you.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Well, President Obama spoke out forcefully in the aftermath of the tragedy in Charleston. In both times, he raised the issue of stricter gun control. He acknowledged the idea faces fierce political opposition.

[18:10:00] But he said Congress will always respond to a shift in public opinion. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I was simply making the point that we have to move public opinion. We have to feel a sense of urgency. Ultimately, Congress will follow the people. And we have to stop being confused about this.

At some point as a country, we have to reckon with what happens. It is not good enough simply to show sympathy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: CNN political commentators Ben Ferguson and Marc Lamont Hill are with me now.

Guys, thanks for being here.

Marc, let me begin with you. The president insisting this week, saying, look, I'm not resigned to no gun control bill passing Congress, but let's talk about how much political capital you believe he and members of Congress have put behind it. Has it been enough? MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It hasn't been enough.

The president had not only political capital, but moral authority and political urgency after Sandy Hook, and nothing happened. Nothing happened because, honestly, the American people and the gun lobby didn't allow for it to happen.

When he was initially in office, he had the opportunity to make this happen. But unfortunately, you know, you had Democrats and Republicans, but especially these Democrats in red states who simply wouldn't go along. So, at multiple moments, the president wanted this to happen, but didn't have the political will or resources to make it happen, even during the short period when he had a super majority.

So, for me, this is something the president has waved a white flag on and said we can't do anything about it. I think tonight, or last week, was an opportunity to say, hey, this is what happens when we don't change public opinion.

HARLOW: I think it's interesting. I want you guys to listen to this sound, because President Obama also said this, this week, about mass violence and it keeps happening and happening. Let's roll that sound.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: At some point, we as a country will have to reckon with the fact that this type of mass violence does not happen in other advanced countries.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Ben, to you, do you think what happened in Charleston this week changes things? That Americans on both sides are going to be willing to give up a little bit more?

BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I don't think so. I think the main reason why is even the laws proposed by many of those that were wanting significant gun control laws to be passed would not have outlawed this gun. And that's where you really have to look at the facts of what would have passed. If we would have passed what was proposed by many Democrats and including the president who said he would support it after Sandy Hook, this gun would have been available to purchase.

So, I think there's two issues here. One, even if you pass gun control laws, would it have made a difference in something like this? No.

The second issue is, do Democrats really want to go out there and campaign and spend time on this, or is this just a lip service issue for the White House and many other Democrats?

HARLOW: You think that, Ben? You think that, being just lip service?

FERGUSON: Yes, I do, because they've had the votes -- I do. I think if they really truly wanted to get something done, they would have actually tried when they did have the votes. It's one thing to go out there and for the president --

HILL: He did have the votes.

FERGUSON: -- to say, I come out here far too often.

Well, he did have the votes early on. What I'm saying is, if you look at the Democrats --

(CROSSTALK)

FERGUSON: Let me finish. Let me clarify then. I'm saying is, traditionally, you think of Democrats and the Democratic Party as being a party in favor of gun control. When they had the votes just on the Democratic side do something, they still did not have Democrats to get something done.

And I think that's the reason why the president, when he walks out there now -- I mean, if he really wants to work on this, he needs to go to his own side of the aisle, go to his own Democrats. He's not going to get help from Republicans on this because they understand gun laws don't always fix these issues. This is the perfect example of it. You have a guy that was obviously had issues, and he bought a gun that even if the Democrats would have passed the law they wanted to pass last time, this gun still would have been available. You have a mental health issue much more than a gun issue in this country.

HARLOW: Well, I don't -- look, people haven't said that -- a lot of people have pointed to the mental health issue in this case in Charleston and said, look, this is someone who premeditated this, drove 120 miles to carry this out, talked about wanting to start a race war.

Marc, to you, can you just respond to what Ben --

FERGUSON: There was warning signs.

HARLOW: A lot -- a lot of warning signs. Mental health needs to be very much addressed. There is no question about that.

Marc, to you though -- do you think there's more effort that should go into this?

HILL: Of course. Look, mental health is something we need to take seriously as a nation and we've never is a nation committed to it. In 1980s, we took our money out of community based organizations. We took many people in mental institutions and put them on the street. At the same time, we made it illegal to be on the street. So, we've never done a good job of mental health.

I don't -- I agree with Ben that I don't think gun laws and even the strictest of gun laws relative to what was proposed would have stopped this from happening.

[18:15:01] But that doesn't mean this isn't an opportunity to say, hey, we can do better. And I think that's the issue here, we can do better. And I think that comes from Democrats and Republicans. FERGUSON: And I think --

HILL: I disagree with Ben's assertion that we -- let me just make this last point. I disagree with Ben's assertion that President Obama had the votes. President Obama never had the votes because there were six to nine Democrats said we aren't voting for this because of our states. Democrats to do it, every Democrat voted, but it's problematic to assume all Democrats are going to vote the same way on the issue of gun control, given how complex gun issues are, particularly in places like the south, where it's cultural as well as political.

HARLOW: All right, guys. I want to stay with me, because --

FERGUSON: I want to say --

HARLOW: Ben, I got to get a break in here.

FERGUSON: Sure.

HARLOW: I got to get a break in here. We're going to come back. You guys are going to stay with me. On the other side, we're going to talk about the continuing debate that is going on around the Confederate flag, the symbolism and where it stands in South Carolina. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Charleston, South Carolina, it is a city known for devotion to history and a state that led the South into seceding to the Union. The Confederate flag still flies right next to the state house, on the state house grounds. The battle goes beyond this flag. This Confederate memorial in downtown Charleston was defaced overnight, spray-painted with the words "black lives matter". Several people covered it with a tarp around midday.

Ben Ferguson and Marc Lamont Hill are back with me to talk about the debate, especially over the flag.

[18:20:03] I want you guys to look at some of these tweets in recent days. Former Republican presidential hopeful Mitt Romney saying it's time for the flag to be removed from outside of the state house. Jeb Bush agreeing, saying as Florida governor he had it put in a museum where it belongs. Also, Mike Huckabee, Rick Santorum, among other Republicans saying today that it was up to the state, up to South Carolina to decide what to do.

Just last hour, a Republican South Carolina state house member told me he's going to file legislation to take it down in his state, and he said he is sorry that he didn't do that before. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Quite frankly, Poppy, I apologize to the people of South Carolina. I've been in the House for five years. I should have introduced this bill five years ago. I should not have let my friend -- we shouldn't be having this conversation.

HARLOW: So, let's talk about why you didn't do it sooner.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn't do my job.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Ben, your thoughts?

FERGUSON: I think there's two things here. I do think this is a state's issue and each state should decide how do deal with it. But let me also say, if I was the governor of that state, I would say this flag is, yes, part of history. And it should be taught as part of history.

But I don't think in 2015 it should be flying by or on top or beside any capitol, you know, where people are involved in real time in 2015. I think this is something that we shouldn't go and bury it. We should talk about it. Discuss it. It should be a part of history.

And it's part of history of a lot of people in different states. But ultimately flying in 2015, if I was in charge, I'd say it should definitely come down.

HARLOW: The people in South Carolina elected Tim Scott, the first African-American in the Senate from the South since the Reconstruction. On Friday, he told CNN the flag is not the main issue. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TIM SCOTT (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: The actions of this one individual isn't connected to the Confederate flag. That is clear. This is a man that was filled with hate, filled with rage and he took it out in South Carolina. We are all paying a heavy price for that. The fact of the matter is, will there be a longer, broader conversation around the Confederate flag? I'm sure that there will be.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: What's your reaction to that? Is this about a lot more than the flag?

HILL: Well, of course it is. It's always about a lot more. But that doesn't mean we don't deal with these issues.

HARLOW: Right.

HILL: That's the problem with this.

Everybody has an agenda and everybody says nothing is important except the thing they care about. So, people will say, Mr. Roof was important but he was racist. Yes, he was racist, but that's not the point. He had access to guns. People say, well, it's not about gun laws, because even if we had gun laws, he can still get the gun. You know, it's not about the Confederate flag, because you know, you can kill people with the flag, you know, not waving in the air.

So, all of these issues are not the whole story, but they make up part of the story, the Confederate flag is an emblem of white supremacy. It's an emblem of really second class citizenship for black people. Yes, it's a part of history and as been said, it should be in a museum. It should (AUDIO GAP), we acknowledge it. I don't want to ignore the legacy of the flag or the existence, but it shouldn't be flying in the air.

HARLOW: I want to -- you tweeted a lot this week, Marc, about these issues, and I want to read one of those tweets and pull it up for our viewers. In one, you wrote, "I'm going to need all people to denounce this ugly act of racist domestic terrorism." Tell me about that.

HILL: I was being ironic. Unfortunately, some people missed my point.

HARLOW: You were? OK.

HILL: When ISIS cuts off someone's head -- yes, when ISIS cuts off someone's head, people say I need all Muslims to denounce ISIS. When something happens with Hezbollah or Hamas, people say, oh my God, I need all Muslim leaders to say something about this.

And I was saying, ironically, you know, one, to point out this was terrorism and we were still at the moment where people were denying it was terrorism. This is terrorism and I want the people connected to this issue, you know, in terms of how they look and how they're presented to the world to be the same thing for Muslims.

I was pointing out the sort of fallacy in making people do that because I think it's a problem. We ask Muslims to do it. I think it's a problem if I were to ask white people to do it.

At the very same time, I do think there's something to be said about naming this as an act of white supremacist violence and terrorism. And earlier in the week, that's something people weren't willing to do. People were acting as if, some people say this was an attack on Christians. I mean, the guy said I'm here to kill black people because I don't like black people. I don't want black people to continue to exist in this country.

And people somehow said it's not about race. It was mind-boggling.

HARLOW: Ben, what do you think? I know he was being ironic. But he has a point that, you know, when something is carried out by a Muslim extremist, often times, some people will categorize him. It's just not right.

FERGUSON: Some, some but not all. I mean, I always say there's a difference between a radical Muslim and a Muslim. There are two different sectors.

I don't think you have to say that every white person has to denounce this. I mean, most people that are normal agree this was a horrible, racist, violent, heinous, disgusting crime committed by a racist individual who wanted to target specifically black people and kill them, and as he put it, start a race war.

[18:25:l5] And I think what you saw after he did that was a lot of people coming to together, black and white. Not only in Charleston but all over the country to condemn this and denounce it for what it was.

You can call it whatever you want to. All I know is this guy deserves the death penalty for the crime he committed. He's a racist and he attacked black people and the death penalty is what he deserves and nothing less. And I think we should all be able to agree on that.

HARLOW: Ben Ferguson, Marc Lamont Hill, so good to have you guys on today, as always. Thank you.

HARLOW: Pleasure.

FERGUSON: Thanks.

HARLOW: All right, guys. See you later.

Well, CEOs are notoriously oftentimes, not all of them, a bit reluctant to speak out about controversial issues. But not Marc Benioff. In the wake of the Charleston. In the wake of the Charleston shooting, the billionaire CEO of Salesforce tweeted this, "Take down the Confederate flag at South Carolina capitol. To many, it is a symbol of racial hatred. Remove to honor victims."

This is the CEO that led the charge against the so-called religious freedom bill in Indiana earlier this year. I sat down with him in San Francisco, and I asked him why he thinks CEOs need to take a real stand on controversial issues. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARC BENIOFF, SALESFORCE CEO: The reality is I think CEOs need to feel empowerment. That is somebody needs to give them permission to stay what they think and what they feel. You have to understand --

HARLOW: No one is saying they can't.

BENIOFF: Well, the thing that is interesting is we are traveling the world. We are meeting with the heads of states of major countries. We are working at every aspect of society. And CEOs get it. They know what's going on. And they can make a difference. They can have impact.

What we don't want is for them to feel like that they have to be extracted to only work in their companies. That I think would be a mistake. I think we want CEOs to feel like they're part of the solution and that they can make a difference.

HARLOW: As you've said before, many CEOs are afraid to get too personal.

BENIOFF: I think it's part of the training. We're supposed to be focused on the shareholder, on EPS. Milton Friedman said it best, the business of business is business.

Well, guess what, it's 2015. The business of business is not business. The business of business is improving the state of the world.

And that's what CEOs need to do. They need to great products. They need to take care of their employees, take care of their customers. They need to build great companies with great cultures, but they need to make the world a little better, too. And they've got the leadership skills to be able to do it, and they can do it.

And when I talk to those CEOs, they want that new narrative. You know, there's a narrative around CEOs. You're articulating a lot of it. But there's a narrative around CEOs that needs to change.

HARLOW: Some people watching this might say this is a guy that sounds like he might run for office.

BENIOFF: You know, that's funny. That was a huge surprise for me when I was on your show or other places, talking about some of these issues, that that's the response. That's actually the problem. See, I think that, when you say something like this, the immediate response shouldn't be, oh, well, that person should be running for office.

No. You know what? Companies are tremendous platforms for change. If you have a company and you're a leader of a company, and you're a leader of not just the company, but a community, of an ecosystem, partners of all the people who work in the companies, the employees, the families, that is a platform for change. That's a platform. It's an opportunity.

I find it odd if you make a comment, a social comment, OK, about social justice, right, that immediately you get pinned as oh, it's should be a politician. We need to reintegrate that CEOs can have that kind of a platform.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Marc Benioff, thank you for talking to us. I appreciate it.

Coming up next, new leads in the search for the convicted killer who are still on the run 16 days after they escaped from prison. We are live with the latest, next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTHONY BOURDAIN, PARTS UNKNOWN: So here we are back if Beirut. We have a lot of history in this town, a lot of it bad, most of it good. But I keep coming back at any opportunity. It's all the good and all the evil in the world in one awesome place.

[18:30:01] BOURDAIN: It makes no damn sense at all in the best possible way. And you should come here.

(END VIDEO CLIP) (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Hundreds of police officers, search dogs, helicopters, all focused on a tiny town in southwestern New York state, acting on a tip that two dangerous and desperate convicts might be there on the lam.

Richard Matt and David Sweat broke out of prison more than two weeks ago now. Yesterday a frantic deployment of police resources to the small town of Friendship, New York. That followed a 911 call that somebody said they thought they spotted those fugitives.

Alexandra Field is live in Allegany County, New York.

What are they saying today? Are they as confident about this lead today as they seemed to be last night, Alex?

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Poppy. You know, they have not pulled back any of the resources when it comes to this search. But they are saying they have this one credible sighting. However, that credible happened yesterday afternoon, and to this point they haven't confirmed whether or not there have been any more credible sightings.

So the question, Poppy, is why did they focus so strongly on this one tip amid the hundreds and hundreds of tips that have been pouring in over the last 16 days. Well, state police explained some of the logic just a short while ago. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAJ. MICHAEL CERRETTO, TROOP A COMMANDER, NEW YORK STATE POLICE: On Saturday, at approximately 1:16 p.m., the state police received a call from a witness who spotted two men on a railroad line that runs along County Route 20 in the town of Friendship.

[18:35:02] The description given was similar to the description of David Sweat and Richard Matt, the two men who escaped from the Clinton Correctional Facility on June 6th. We interviewed the witness at length and the determination was made that this investigation lead should be investigated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FIELD: Three hundred law enforcement officers have now been assigned to the search here in Allegany County which is some 300 miles southwest of that maximum security prison the two convicted killers broke out of more than two weeks ago.

And, Poppy, what we're seeing here on the ground today are searches on foot, searches in the air. There are K-9s out, there are also roadblocks where people are being asked to top and allow police to search their cars. Some people even having their homes searched. Right now police are saying they will continue to stay in this area and they will continue to track down all leads until they believe that they have exhausted every lead connected to the initial tip -- Poppy. HARLOW: That's exactly what I was going to happen. What -- you know,

what next? Right? What if this doesn't come up with anything? Because frankly all the other leads having come up with anything either. What's the next plan?

FIELD: Right, you've seen something like this unfold. This is not the first time that you've had a reported sighting. We were watching these kinds of events happen up near Dannemora where the prison is located for some two weeks. And what you saw in that case was that police set up a perimeter, they did a grid search. We're being told the perimeter was set up here in Friendship and around Friendship as well.

But what happened in Dannemora was after they cleared that area, after they did that grid search, what they started doing is looking at the escape route that the inmates could have taken. That led them to look at the rail lines and interestingly enough, Poppy, the reported sighting in Friendship was of two inmates walking along the rail line. That was one place where people have been warned that they could perhaps or should perhaps look.

HARLOW: Wow. And now the question becomes, is this lead the lead that they need? We will see.

Alexandra Field, thank you for the report. I appreciate it live from Allegany, New York.

Coming up next, we're going to talk about how do these men, how on earth do they continue to evade being captured over and over again more than two weeks on the run? We're going to speak with former FBI assistant director Tom Fuentes about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:40:44] HARLOW: All right, back to the intense manhunt for two escaped murderers and the focus on one small, small New York town, where someone called 911 saying they were possibly spotted. We're talking about the two convicts who escaped from that maximum security prison now more than two weeks ago.

Tom Fuentes is with me, former FBI assistant director.

Tom, you were here with me last night in the breaking news when everyone was focusing on this small town of Friendship, New York. Helicopters above and we were talking about nightfall.

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Right.

HARLOW: You believe that a big chance to get them disappeared when nightfall came last night?

FUENTES: Yes, not only that, but the fact that when they're sighted in an area so rural with no major urban center nearby, they didn't have a large number of police officers to immediately draw on. So my fear was that when the sighting happened at 1:30 in the afternoon by the time they determined the credibility a few more hours passed and they decided to deploy police officers from all over New York and possibly Pennsylvania, that's -- you know, several hours are going to go by before they even arrive.

Then they have to establish a new command post. You have a new commander now, different than the one in Dannemora when it first happened two weeks ago. You have new police personnel.

HARLOW: Right.

FUENTES: You have to organize what radio frequencies. Who is going to do what search, how wide is the perimeter going to be, who is going to be at what location on that perimeter, is the weather permitting aircraft to fly with the technology, the infrared sensors and everything. So to get all that together takes hours and to walk out of that perimeter and away from the hot zone takes minutes.

HARLOW: Takes minutes. Yes.

FUENTES: Exactly.

HARLOW: So I know that the key hours of -- the hours after the escape, which frankly the prison guards didn't know for seven hours that they were even gone.

FUENTES: Correct.

HARLOW: So they lost on that front. But does it matter now if they're gone for two weeks, three weeks, four weeks? How critical does that time become as the days drag on?

FUENTES: I think it will depend on hindsight on figuring out when they left the area. If it was determined that they had a ride, they went a long way the very first night and were completely gone by time that search got even organized on the first day they were discovered missing, then all of this doesn't matter. You know, it will be for nothing.

On the other hand, we've had these searches where the fugitives didn't go very far like Christopher Dorner in Los Angeles, the Los Angeles cop that killed five people. He ended up being within a quarter mile of the police command post for a week. He had gotten into somebody's vacation home, and he wouldn't have been discovered them except they came home early in the season to sell their house. And then they found him, they took him hostage, stole their car.

So those kinds of things. If they had found shelter, a house with water, food, clothing, firearms, transportation, then they could have hunkered down and they could still be hunkering down somewhere.

HARLOW: What about this reward money? We're talking about now all in a total of $150,000 in reward money for a tip that leads to them. How much does that in your experience help?

FUENTES: Well, it can help but it also helps create a lot more phone calls and a lot more --

HARLOW: Yes.

FUENTES: You know, people see suspicious things. And like UFOs, once somebody has a spotting in an area like the sighting yesterday, then everybody goes out, looks out their window and see something, sees shadows, sees people.

HARLOW: Then they want to be the one to call that tip in.

FUENTES: Absolutely. So that's why you get multiple sightings which may not be as credible as a first sighting but it causes the police to have to look at it, have to expend resources and again they're in a very rural area. So those officers that responded it took hours to get there. It took hours to get organized, to get everything set up to do the searches.

Now they need to find logistic support, they have to feed the officers, house the officers. Bring the dogs in, take care of them, bring the aircraft in, take care of the aircraft.

HARLOW: Yes.

FUENTES: So all of that is massive. And you can't just turn that on a dime.

HARLOW: Yes.

FUENTES: When these guys can jump out of a train, jump in a car, and be gone.

HARLOW: Sure. Sure. Absolutely. It is astonishing that they have not been able to find them.

FUENTES: I know.

HARLOW: How these guys have been able to evade capture.

Tom, thank you. Good to have you here in New York with me.

FUENTES: Thank you.

HARLOW: Well, when we come back you're going to hear from Houston Rockets all-star Dwight Howard. His interview with me on why he has started this mission, encouraging everyone in this country to breathe again in the wake of tragedy.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW (voice-over): Basking in the Mexican sunshine, avocados grow in fields like these all year round, making Mexico the world's biggest producer.

[18:45:04] Since 1997, free trade with the United States has flourished from 6,000 tons a year to 600,000 tons. It took time for all 50 U.S. states to allow the imports from south of the border. But now Mexico is central to a cherished U.S. tradition -- guacamole munching during the Super Bowl which sees a jump in demand of around 80 percent.

Jorge Fernandez has been in the business 30 years.

JORGE FERNANDEZ, AVOCADO EXPORTER (Through Translator): The most important thing to market them correctly is to have all the right information, all the statistics. We also need to know what Americans celebrate, how many people watch the Super Bowl.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mexico selects the avocado.

HARLOW: This year saw a watershed moment for the industry, its first Super Bowl advertisement. Exposure like this has boosted the brand.

Jorge Fernandez is keen to diversify by marketing the avocados as a luxury item.

FERNANDEZ (Through Translator): How many people does China have? 1.4 billion. How many people have the power to buy? Two hundred million? Then we have to let them know about this product because the people of lower economic margins will not be able to consume avocados. Why? Because of this price, when it comes to transport it, distribute it, all of those factors.

HARLOW: Most of the producers in the state are small farmers. A growing export market can only help lift more of the population out of poverty.

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[18:51:01] HARLOW: Dwight Howard is a legend in the game of basketball and NBA superstar and this is how we're usually used to seeing the 6'11" center for the Houston Rockets but this week we saw him in Charleston alongside the families mourning the loss of nine beautiful lives.

I talked to him about why he wanted to be there.

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DWIGHT HOWARD, CENTER, HOUSTON ROCKETS: It hurt, you know, to see the things that had happened in Charleston, and, you know, just broke my heart because I just felt like that could have been me, it could have been my friends, it could have been my pastor, it could have been anybody.

And I wanted to be there to show my support and just to show people that, you know, we need change in our society.

HARLOW: You have started a campaign called Breathe Again. Let's talk about that. What's your mission?

HOWARD: Well, my mission is to really just change people's lives. You know? I think that all of us, you know, as a society, we need to breathe again. We need to step back and take a look at ourselves and our lives and if we want change, we need to be that change. And we got to have hope. You know? We need some type of hope. Some type of bright light to make us want to move forward.

And I just feel like there's so much hate going around in this world that, you know, needs to stop. You know? And I just hate to see the things that have happened to our society because of, you know, hate. And hate cannot drive out hate. Only love can. And I just want to spread as much love as possible to everybody around the world. And that's why I started this campaign.

I know a lot of people are fed up with a lot of things that have happened but, you know, we're not going to get rid of those problems until we face them head on and we do out of love. You know? Nothing can come out of evil and hate. But when you do things out of the good of your heart and out of love, you know, things will happen and things will get better and, you know, I just want things to get better because there's so much stuff that go on in our society and it just hurts me to see how these kids have to grow up now with everything that's going on.

We're -- we are, you know, those examples for our children. And I think we got to be a better example and so these kids can see that love is the only way we can drive out all this hate. But we've got to stop pointing fingers, we've got to look at ourselves and how can we change? You know, we want our society to be better. You know? We got to be that change. You know? For our kids. They have to see that change coming from us. You know?

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HARLOW: Dwight Howard, thank you again for coming on the show with me. You can learn more about Dwight Howard's campaign at wewillbreathe.com. We'll be right back.

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[18:57:20] HARLOW: Today people in Charleston, South Carolina, and across this country remembered the nine souls senselessly taken from all of us inside of their own church. They welcomed a stranger into their place of worship and he returned their love with hate.

Overcoming evil with faith was a theme throughout today's service. Our Jake Tapper remembers the victims.

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JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR, "THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER" (voice-over): Tywanza Sanders was the youngest victim. His life selflessly came to an end trying to negotiate with the murderer to save the members of the bible study he attended with his family.

SYLVIA JOHNSON, RELATIVE OF VICTIM: He shot the young man. His mother was there. And she witnessed. She pretended as though she was dead, that she was shot and dead. But she watched her son fall and laid there. TAPPER: Sanders was unable to save himself or his great aunt, Susie

Jackson, the family matriarch, who lovingly sang in the church choir for decades. She died alongside Ethel Lance, a retired city worker who devoted most of her 34 years of service to the Gaillard Municipal Auditorium in Charleston. She also served as custodian to the church.

With them at the Emanuel AME Church was Myra Thompson, the wife of one of the church's bishops. She was teaching bible study at the time. Sharonda Singleton was a speech therapist, track coach and reverend at the AME Church. Her son, Chris, uses her lessons to try to persevere.

CHRIS SINGLETON, SON OF VICTIM: Love is always stronger than hate. So we just love the way my mom would and the hate won't be anywhere close to what love is.

TAPPER: Remembered as an enthusiastic leader, Reverend Depayne Middleton served as an admissions coordinator at Southern Wesleyan University. Cynthia Hurd, who worked in the public library for years, had a long history in the place she loved.

MALCOLM GRAHAM, BROTHER OF CYNTHIA HURD: She knew that church backwards and forward. She was on the youth choir. She said her Easter speeches in that church. Our mother went to that church.

TAPPER: Dedicating his life to the church, Reverend Daniel Simmons served as a pastor here. He died in surgery following the shooting. Also with him that day was Reverend Clementa Pinckney, whose call to serve began at the age of 13. A pastor by the age of 18, he was remembered in the state Senate this week for his life of service, which extended from the church to both Houses of the South Carolina legislature, elected as the youngest black member of the statehouse at age 23.

President Obama, who knew Pinckney, spoke movingly of the victims and the church's history.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Mother Emanuel Church and its congregation have risen before from flames, from an earthquake, from other dark times, to give hope to generations of Charlestonians. And with our prayers and our love and the buoyancy of hope, it will rise again now as a place of peace.

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