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LEGAL VIEW WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD

Victims of Charleston Massacre; Shooter Faces Court Hearing at 2PM ET; College of Charleston to Host Public Vigil; Officials: Roof Wanted to Start a Race War; Roof Family Pastor Asks for Prayers. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired June 19, 2015 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[12:00:00] KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: So thanks so much for joining us "AT THIS HOUR." LEGAL VIEW with Ashleigh Banfield starts right now.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone, I'm Ashleigh Banfield, and welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

Any moment now, the national president of the NAACP is set to step before the cameras and the microphones in Charleston, South Carolina. What is on the agenda? The massacre at the Mother Emanuel AME Church on Wednesday night. The Reverend Cornell Brooks has said that his organization is, quote, "outraged" at the cold blooded killing to which a ninth grade dropout named Dylann Roof has now reportedly confessed.

Late this morning, Roof was charged with nine counts of murder and the firearms offense as well. And at 2:00 p.m. Eastern Time, two hours from now, he is set to appear in a court via video from the county jail where he is now spending all of his moments.

A law enforcement source telling CNN that Roof told police that he wanted to start a race war and that that pretty well echoes what he apparently said to his friends as well. Roof's roommate told "The New York Times" that he briefly took Roof's gun away fearing he might, quote, "do something crazy," but ended up giving it back to him and now feels guilty about that.

The College of Charleston is hosting an arena-sized vigil this evening for the nine worshippers who were killed in the Bible study class that Dylann Roof even himself attended for one hour before allegedly opening fire. Last hour, Charleston's mayor previewed what the 6:00 p.m. event will have.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR JOSEPH RILEY, CHARLESTON, SOUTH CAROLINA: This community wants to come together in prayer and unity and help each other. That's the way it is in Charleston and in the low country. So tonight we are holding a community vigil and prayer service at 6:00, almost right around the corner. We wanted it at a venue that was near the church for all the obvious reasons.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BANFIELD: And tonight's vigil should be the largest so far, but it is not the first. Burdened with grief, the faithful gathered last night in Charleston and far beyond as well. That's where my colleague Michaela Pereira picks up the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAELA PEREIRA, ANCHOR, CNN'S "NEW DAY" (voice-over): From the heat of the tragedy in South Carolina -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our hope is in God.

PEREIRA: To the historic walls of the Ebenezer Baptist Church in Georgia, thousands came to mourn nine of Charleston's most prominent educators and religious leaders killed inside Emanuel AME Church Wednesday, including four beloved reverends. Among them, 74-year-old retired Reverend Daniel Simmons, who attended the church every Sunday, 49-year-old Reverend Depayne Middleton Doctor, who served her community in the learning center of Southern Wesleyan University, 45- year-old Reverend Sharonda Singleton, pictured here with her son on Mother's Day, coached at a local high school. Consoled by his teammates, Chris Singleton remembers his mom.

CHRIS SINGLETON, SHARONDA SINGLETON'S SON: So we just love the way my mom would then the hate won't be anywhere close to what love is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We can only love and conquer hate.

PEREIRA: And the distinctive voice of Reverend Clementa Pinkney, leader of the Emanuel AME Church, was also silenced, gun downed as he preached.

REV. CLEMENTA PINKNEY: And to see him die face down in the ground -

PEREIRA: A state senator, Reverend Pinkney became the youngest African-American ever elected to the South Carolina legislature. After the shooting of Walter Scott by police, he stressed the need for body police cameras in South Carolina.

PINKNEY: And that a badge and a gun does not give someone superiority or will trump their constitutionally protected privileges and rights in South Carolina.

PEREIRA: Friends and family struggled to cope with the loss so many inside a place of worship. Recent college graduate Tywanza Sanders, just 26 years old, lost his life. Cynthia Hurd, 54 years old, she worked for decades as a librarian. Now as a tribute to her life of service, it will be renamed in her honor.

TIM JACKSON, SUSIE JACKSON'S GRANDSON: I just want to know why. Like why would you do something like this?

PEREIRA: Tim Jackson mourning the loss of his 87-year-old grandmother Susie. He remembers her as a loving person with a great smile. Susie's 70-year-old cousin Ethel Lance, also killed. And Myra Thompson, 59. She was teaching the Bible study held each Wednesday when the gunman opened fire.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[12:05:00] BANFIELD: Our Michaela Pereira for us.

I want to now bring in our justice correspondent Evan Perez in Washington. I also want to introduce Athena Jones in Charleston in front of a growing memorial outside of the Mother Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church.

Evan, first to you and the shooter. The list of charges right now stands at nine murder and a gun possession, but that is not all that he could potentially face.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE REPORTER: That's right, Ashleigh. The South Carolina governor, Nikki Haley, says that she wants him to face the death penalty for these - for this massacre. And the investigation really is still not completed. Even though the - even though he has - he has confessed to carrying out the shootings, investigators still want to know more about how long has he been planning this. Was there anybody who knew he was planning to do this? They're going over his computer. They're talking to his friends, to his family. In fact, one classmate, one former classmate, spoke to CNN and described how he started to look back at some of the statements that Roof made to him and is now reassessing what they meant. Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN MULLINS, FORMER CLASSMATE OF DYLANN ROOF: They were jokes, I guess racist slurs, but they were never taken too seriously until now. Now I'm looking at them in a different manner.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREZ: And, Ashleigh, at this point now investigators are going to try to buttress up their case because even though he has made this confession, you know his defense attorneys are probably going to challenge the use of that confession in court and so now the next phase of this, he's going to be in court this afternoon and he's going to answer some basic questions and then we'll see where his defense goes.

BANFIELD: Evan Perez, stand by, if you will.

Athena Jones, I want to go out to you at the Mother Emanuel AME Church.

While the legal process plays out, there is an emotional process that will take maybe far longer if not forever if you listen to the mayor.

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Ashleigh, so much loss, so much sorrow and grief, but also the community coming together to offer words of comfort.

Let me step out of the view here so you can see this growing makeshift memorial right outside the church. Less than 24 hours ago, this was much, much smaller. It's about quadrupled in that time. We've seen people coming, a steady stream of people coming to put down flowers. Just now several very small, young boys, no more than five or six years old, added their flowers to group. Wreaths that say "Charleston United." There's a sign that says "Mother Emmanuel, Jesus is your superhero."

I can tell you that we went to a prayer service last night that was a real coming together of the community, black and white. Several Presbyterian churches coming together to comfort one another. We saw a lot of people rubbing each other's backs. We saw them holding hands in a prayer circle. And after that service, they all walked over here, many of them, and laid flowers at this memorial. This is why it is growing.

You mentioned the mayor saying this is a community that wants to come together in prayer and help heal each other. There's going to be that vigil tonight. He also announced, the mayor did, a fund that has been set up for this church. People are able to donate through Wells Fargo branches. So they're all coming together to try to help heal.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: And the mayor, Athena, saying the city will never - never be the same. Athena Jones, thank you for that. Evan Perez, thank you as well.

The Reverend George McKain is a former pastor and now the director of public affairs at the AME Zion Church. He also knew some of the victims who underwent that horror. He joins me live now from Charleston, outside of that church.

Reverend, I wish we could be meeting under different circumstances. But I want you to walk me through the moments that this happened at the Mother Emanuel AME Church. You were also in a Bible study group at another church and the police came. Can you take me from there and tell me what happened?

REV. GEORGE MCKAIN, NATIONAL DIR. OF PUBLIC AFFAIRS, AME ZION CHURCH: Right. Well, it would have to be a word of commendation to both the Charleston and North Charleston Police because within moments they delegated and distributed policemen everywhere throughout the low country. You know, this is still the Bible belt and everybody's at midweek service or Bible study. And I was in a service at Life Center Cathedral (ph), about 1,200 people at that - at that point and the police arrived and they told us what had happened. Nobody, of course, had Facebook and their phones on because we were in worship.

But the reality is, how they came to evacuate the building, encourage us to close down the service, see to it that everyone was escorted to their buildings, create our own phone trees to call and make sure one another had arrived home safely and that our homes were safe. It was awesome. They worked with our security, our male ushers, the men of the church and how everybody was evacuated in a timely and an orderly fashion, it was awesome. And it speaks to who they are. I talked with Sheriff Cannon (ph) yesterday. But they're called to protect and to serve and unlike what is being painted as a picture across the country, we can say that still here in the low country we have what we are expecting in service (ph).

There are system challenges. Nobody and everybody won't be perfect. But we're grateful for that, which the police did that night. That's how we found out about it.

[12:10:03] BANFIELD: And I've read some of your comments in the wake of the Walter Scott shooting in your state and the distrust among the African-American community towards the police that how they've handled what's happened, this horror, has bridged a gap, has created some kind of a new trust. Can you speak that?

MCKAIN: It has - it has bridged a new trust and there's something - integrity can't be replaced and so when we are who we say we are and we do what we say we're supposed to, then integrity will always be the safeguard. And I think that's what really has the heart of the people right now holding us so that what's taking place in other cities is not taking place here. We're determined we're going to make it through this together.

BANFIELD: Reverend McKain, tell me about some of the people who were murdered in that Bible study. You knew several of them.

MCKAIN: Yes, but if I were to pick out one, I'd have to pick out the liveliest of the group, and that would be Depayne. To know her as a young woman with a heart for mission's, Christian education, loving all people, respecting all generation, she could pull up that voice and not having necessarily the concert voice but the reality that she loved to sing. I remember Carlos (ph), the choir director, directing. She hit that line with those tenors and she could just bring out the praises of God. She was a delight to know, a joy and a light in the midst of darkness.

BANFIELD: Reverend, if you were crafting a sermon right now for Sunday, what would your message be?

MCKAIN: My message for Sunday I would have to think what I'm really working on is father, may I. Following the game that children play, trying to advance to a new place where from you are but realizing you have to get permission from the father to advance there. And it would really be a prayer, Father may I be the one who helps people to understand that even though it's a black-and-white issue, like the Bible is printed in black-and-white, that I can read in the color because that's how I bring it to life. That I want to - the positives to override the negatives and I want the light to rise out of the darkness. Father, may I be the one. Use me as an instrument, an instrument of peace, an instrument of hope. It just - I - that would have to be it, Father, may I. You know, if he's looking for somebody who can help make the difference, I'm available. Father, may I be the one?

BANFIELD: Reverend McKain, beautiful words. And my sentiment is that I believe there will be echoes of that, if not similar, across the country this Sunday. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your thought, sir.

MCKAIN: You're welcome. BANFIELD: The NAACP news conference is expected this hour and we're

going to bring it to you live when it happens. But first, Dylann Roof looked into the face of an 87-year-old woman, an 87-year-old woman, and still he shot her dead. He did the same to eight other victims, the allegations say. So, why did he do this? To start a race war? We'll explain why that fits the definition of terrorism and why it matters moving forward if what he's told the police is the truth.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:16:40] BANFIELD: I want to run down what has come up today. In less than two hours, the confessed Charleston church shooter, Dylann Roof, is going to appear in court on nine counts of murder and possession of a firearm in the commission of a violent crime. That's what we do know.

But here's the part we don't know, and we might never know - what exactly was going on in this high school dropout's head to make him walk into a church, stay for an hour or so to meet and talk to the people inside that Bible study, and then pull out a gun and kill almost everyone there? It makes no sense to anyone who has a shred of logic or the most basic sense of humanity.

Beyond the shocking loss of innocent lives, the way certain people in this country first reacted to this tragedy was a puzzle to "The Daily Show's" Jon Stewart.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JON STEWART, HOST, "THE DAILY SHOW": What blows my mind is the disparity of response between when we think people that are foreign are going to kill us and us killing ourselves. If this had been what we thought was Islamic terrorism, it would fit into our - we've invaded two countries and spent trillions of dollars and thousands of American lives and now fly unmanned death machines over, like, five or six different countries, all to keep Americans safe. That's got to - we've got to do whatever we can. We'll torture people. We've got to do whatever we can to keep Americans safe. Nine people shot in a church. What about that? "Hey, what are you going to do? Crazy is as crazy is, right?" That's the part that I cannot, for the life of me, wrap my head around.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So if what officials tell us is true, then Dylann Roof confessed to killing people that he didn't know for a political purpose, said he wanted to start a race war, and that makes this an act of terrorism. It has to. But not many people are saying that word yet. So here's how something passes the FBI's domestic terrorism test. People are hurt or killed through an illegal act, it is intended to intimidate or coerce a civilian population and it happens inside the country.

What happened in Charleston fits all of those criteria and Dean Obeidellah says, yes, it's terrorism, so let's call it what it is. These are the official words - the official words that the officials are using, even the president, "senseless murders," "unspeakable tragedy," "hate crime," but why are they avoiding using the word "terrorism"?

Let's just go over the statute.

DEAN OBEIDALLAH, POLITICAL COMEDIAN: Sure.

BANFIELD: The technical statute. The United States, Title 18, U.S. code, section 2331 involves acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of criminal laws in the country of the United States or any state. Check, right?

OBEIDALLAH: Yes.

BANFIELD: Right. Number two, they appear intended to first intimidate or coerce a civilian population. Check.

OBEIDALLAH: Yes.

BANFIELD: They appear intended to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion. Check.

OBEIDALLAH: True. And within that section, it has - it's an "or." So it could be if it's intending to coerce the population -

BANFIELD: OK.

OBEIDALLAH: That's enough. You're got that element. So you've got - there's three elements. You've got one and two and the third one being -

[12:20:03] BANFIELD: The third one is to affect the conduct of a government by, dot, dot, dot, assassination. We have a state senator -

OBEIDALLAH: Right.

BANFIELD: Who was in that group of victims.

OBEIDALLAH: Well, there was an assassination here of a state senator who happened to be a leader of the church as well, and I think the media should be using the term assassination as well as the term domestic terrorism here.

BANFIELD: If he knew that the reverend was, in fact, a state senator, as opposed to just another member of the Bible study.

OBEIDALLAH: True. But, of course, and we have to keep in mind, he drove two hours from his home of Lexington to a famous African- American church. One that stood up against slavery. One burned down because they wanted the fight against slavery. So this man knew exactly what he was doing. Did he know he was a state senator or not? I bet he didn't (ph). It's an easy Google search? You'd see this person's name come up right away.

BANFIELD: But you'd have to get that nexus. You'd have to see something in his planning, in his conversations, in his vitriol, his epithets, his polemics that say, I'm going to get that guy.

OBEIDALLAH: That's part of it. But the one - you don't need both elements under the statute. You need either the element to coerce -

BANFIELD: Or.

OBEIDALLAH: Or intimidate the people or to assassinate an elected official that change government policy. So under the first one, his statements with very clear, I want you out of my country. You don't belong here. You're taking over my country. I want to start a civil war based on race. This is a man with a terrorist agenda who's been radicalized like an ISIL and al Qaeda person and we should use the same terms here.

BANFIELD: So that's the technical and it's an easy checklist -

OBEIDALLAH: Yes.

BANFIELD: And you make a very, very convincing case. If we get there, if it is terrorism, what does that do for this crisis? How does it change this crisis that nine innocent black parishioners were slaughtered?

OBEIDALLAH: Right. It won't change this crisis. What it might do is prevent the next one, frankly, and that's what we're about.

You know, the policy of the criminal justice system is to punish and deter. Deterrence is very important. If we see someone with ISIS flags on their FaceBook page, people are going to contact the authorities. So if you see someone with a white supremacist images on their FaceBook page or vile anti-Semitic or despicable anti-Muslim diatribes over and over and over, you should be alarmed. You might not want to contact the police right away, but if they're a friend, reach out to them. At some point, though, we should be alerted.

BANFIELD: Well, that's a - it's a good point, but there's so much of it. And I understand what Jon Stewart is saying.

OBEIDALLAH: Right.

BANFIELD: I understand what you are saying, that we could divert the precious resources over into an area that actually kills more Americans, domestic terror.

OBEIDALLAH: That's (INAUDIBLE), absolutely.

BANFIELD: And I get it. But if you're looking at the issues of First Amendment in this country as well, you can wear whatever badge you want, but do we have the money, the resources, even if there were more terror financing toward domestic terrorism, to find a guy like that? Would any funding have stopped someone like this who had no violence in his background and no intentions that we know of yet that were telegraphed anywhere?

OBEIDALLAH: I think when you alert people, the idea see something, say something, it's not just for brown Muslims, my friends. It's for everyone out there. His friend said to him, who came out in the media and said, he wanted to start a race civil war. If we're more alerted to comments like that, we might say first to your friend - don't go to the police right away - you go to your friend, hey, buddy, that's out of bounds. Are you - what are you talking about? If you're really concerned, then you go to the authorities with it. we have to. Let's keep Americans safe.

There's been less than 50 Americans killed since 9/11 on U.S. soil by Islamic terrorists. There's been over 300 killed by non-Islamic terrorists who are involved in a political agenda and 30 killed every day by gun violence and those are uncomfortable conversations that we don't want to have.

BANFIELD: So it's one thing if you and I on television, national television, call it a terror attack. It's a whole other thing if it's charged as such. And we already know that there is not that tough of a prosecution in the - on the state level.

OBEIDALLAH: True.

BANFIELD: And there's a whole conversation that you and I will be having probably down the pike -

OBEIDALLAH: I hope so.

BANFIELD: When it comes to what the feds decide to do. And then there's hate crimes.

OBEIDALLAH: Right.

BANFIELD: So, lots on the agenda. Dean, thank you.

OBEIDALLAH: Thanks for having me.

BANFIELD: A great piece that you wrote about it today, too.

OBEIDALLAH: Thank you.

BANFIELD: Appreciate it.

We're still waiting on the NAACP news conference to start and we're going to bring it to you live from Charleston just the moment that it happens. Every time there is a mass shooting, we end up talking about gun laws. But bear with me because it's an important discussion to have. Was it, in fact, legal for Roof to have a gun in his possession? We're going to explore what could have, what might have been done.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:27:29] BANFIELD: CNN investigative correspondent Drew Griffin is joining me live now with some breaking news from Columbia, South Carolina. He is outside of the family church of the Roof family.

Drew, you've been able to learn a lot since you've been there. Tell me what you know. DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Well, I guess the big

news, and many of us would consider it, you know, lesser news in light of the grief that's happing in Charleston, but this family was supposed to have a wedding this very weekend. Amber, the sister of the shooter, was going to be wed. The pastor has told us that that wedding, of course, has been postponed.

And we caught him coming out of the family home. There was a group meeting of the family this morning and it's really the first time we ever heard from anybody from that side of the family. And I want you to listen to what -- Ashleigh, what the Reverend Tony Metze told us about how the family is dealing with this, albeit a different kind of tragedy, and how they are praying for other families. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REV. TONY METZE, ST. PAUL'S LUTHERAN CHURCH: You know all - most of everything is being handled by the family's attorney. They've got a spokesperson. My job is to care for them, which is what I'm doing.

What they've asked and what I ask is that we continue to hold all these families in our prayers and that the whole world, our nation, Charleston, our community, understand that we love them, God loves them and we want the best and we want to continue to hold those people in our prayers. And that's what we're trying to do. I'm trying to do my job, as you guys know, which is to care for them.

GRIFFIN: And they must be just devastated.

METZE: They are.

GRIFFIN: Yes. Has there been any contact with their - with Dylann? Is anybody ministering to him at this time?

METZE: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN: Ashleigh, there is an attorney involved now and the family tells us through the pastor that there is going to be some kind of a statement being handled by the attorney. And you can imagine why. There are a lot of tough, tough questions facing this family regarding what we're now learning to be the many, many warning signs in this individual's past, why the family didn't intervene, why certainly the friends didn't intervene. But again, this morning, the family did want to convey that they are

praying at least for all the families involved, especially down in Charleston.

Ashleigh.

[12:30:00] BANFIELD: This family joining in a very unwelcome and unexpected club of families across the country of killers who have exacted such horror on innocent victims. But, Drew, have they - or was there any conveyance that this family has spoken