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AT THIS HOUR WITH BERMAN AND MICHAELA

Accused Charleston Shooter Won't Be in Courtroom for First Court Appearance; New Information on Shooting. Aired 11:30a-12:00p ET.

Aired June 19, 2015 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[11:33:00]

BOLDUAN: Of course. Coming up for us, for security reasons the Charleston shooter won't be in the courtroom. For security reasons he won't be in the courtroom for his hearing, his first court appearance today.

Coming up next what we expect to happen in that courtroom and will prosecutors, will they be seeking the death penalty?

Also very importantly, move his picture off the screen, we want to continue at this hour continuing to honor the lives of those nine victims that were gunned down in the middle of a bible study. Reverend de Payne Middleton-Doctor is being remembered as a warm enthusiastic leader, one of four reverends whose lives were cut short Wednesday night. The 49 year old had a Master's Degree in Management and had just started working in the admissions department for the Christian College Southern Wesleyan University. De Payne leaves behind four daughters.

And also Cynthia Hurd, she worked as a library manager at one of the busiest libraries in Charleston. In her honor all 16 library branches are closed today. The much loved 54 year old attended Emanuel AME Church her whole life, she was even baptized there. Here brother says Cynthia was the family's glue.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cynthia was the matriarch of the family. Both our mother and our father are deceased (inaudible) 15 years and Cynthia was the center of attention in terms of the glue that kept the family together.

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[11:37:01] LEMON: I'm Don Lemon with our continuing news coverage live here in South Carolina. Three hours from now - three hours from now the killer with so much hate will appear in court for a bond hearing. You've been hearing our Nick Valencia report on that. Investigators say Dylann Roof told them he wanted to start a race war when he gunned down five defenseless people during bible study at the historic Emanuel AME Church which is right behind me. Roof is charged with nine counts of murder and possession of a firearm. And here's what investigators were saying. That he brought in a 45 caliber handgun, after he turned - he bought a 45 caliber handgun after he turned 21 and that was just in April. April 3rd is when his birthday was. CNN's Sunny Hostin is here, she's our legal analyst and of course she's a former federal prosecutor, she joins me now.

So let's talk about all these charges here.

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes.

LEMON: So this state supports a death penalty for these types of charges, he can be charged.

HOSTIN: That's absolutely true I mean the state has a death penalty, it is effective here. And everyone that you chat with here even if they're opposed to the death penalty in this particular case they are saying that it is appropriate. So I suspect that while today during the bond hearing he's going to be - the charges are going to be read, he's going to be arraigned, we won't know whether or not the death penalty will be sought but we will know that they are charges that are death penalty eligible.

LEMON: Do you think it will be?

HOSTIN: There's just no question in my mind.

LEMON: It's interesting though when you said the people who are opposed to the death penalty because these are believers - these are Christian's right, and you don't take anyone's life.

HOSTIN: Yes, and I've spoken to many people since I've been here.

LEMON: How can you?

HOSTIN: I would say nine out of ten have been opposed to the death penalty but have said that it's appropriate here.

LEMON: That's interesting.

HOSTIN: But we heard the same thing in Connecticut I think with the Connecticut home invasion, the Komisarjevesky case ...

LEMON: Yes.

HOSTIN: Everyone in Connecticut was against the death penalty but for that particular case they thought it was appropriate.

LEMON: Now let me ask you because there are hate crime charges right on top. What does that add to this? What does that do?

HOSTIN: Well, South Carolina is one of five states in the United States that doesn't have a hate crime statute. So it won't be brought as a hate crime case. The Federal Government of course is investigating this as a hate crime but I've been saying over and over again you don't even need a hate crime in this case, bottom line is hate crimes are sometimes difficult to prove because you've got to prove intent, you've got to prove what was going on in someone's mind. Even though we know he said to a witness he was killing people because they were black. I think this is a straight murder case and a conviction is all but the end game.

LEMON: All right so according to our sources he's confessed right.

HOSTIN: That's right.

LEMON: And according to many sources he's confessed. So then what does that do? What kind of defense do you provide for someone who confesses to nine murders in a racist and most racist sort of manner?

HOSTIN: That's the question I mean certainly you can still provide a defense. I think we may hear of an insanity defense. I don't think by any stretch of the imagination he can meet the legal definition of legally insane. It is rarely successful and I take issue with it because as a former prosecutor I have prosecuted people that are bad people, that are evil people, that commit murder, they commit mayhem, they commit rape, and they are not mentally ill. They are just evil bad people. And so I don't know, we don't have a history of mental illness here, at least we don't know that yet and so why everyone is jumping to the conclusion that he is mentally ill, I don't understand.

[11:40:12] LEMON: There is a distinction though between insanity and having a mental illness, I mean right?

HOSTIN: That is true, that is true.

LEMON: I mean one is an extreme, the other one can be dealt with or what have you. But we don't know that that's here.

HOSTIN: We don't have any knowledge of a history of mental illness.

LEMON: I come - this is mine - you and I have been talking about this, I think any type of racism or bias or ism like that I think that is a form of mental illness. For you to think that you are better than someone in some way just because of your race. I think that is a mental illness. Not that that's a defense of what he did, right.

HOSTIN: Yes, and it certainly isn't defined I think when you look at the psychiatric books at the mental illness. So I just, I think we can agree to disagree on that one Don.

LEMON: Yes, he was able to get a gun.

HOSTIN: Yes.

LEMON: At 21 years old.

HOSTIN: Yes.

LEMON: Right.

HOSTIN: That is shocking to me only because in South Carolina law mandate that if there is a seller, not a private seller but a dealer they have to do this FBI background check. And if you have a felony charge pending or a misdemeanor charge pending anything that can dispose you up to one year in prison, you cannot get a gun. We know that he had a felony charge pending, we know he had a misdemeanor charge pending. He should not have been able to get a gun from a dealer. Did he get the gun privately? Perhaps. Private dealers aren't - they're not required to conduct these background searches and that is why we need to talk about gun reform and gun control.

LEMON: And we're going to be watching that bond hearing here that happens in just a little while. I'm going to show this as we throw it back to Kate, Sunny let's show this. is the cover of the paper, The Post & Courier that Sunny and I have been reading this morning on our way here. There it is Kate it's got all of the nine victims here and it says the unspeakable happened in our city and then there is of course this shot that's out in front of the church.

It is unspeakable but we have to speak of it to make things different, to change things, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Your absolutely right Don. I mean the Police Chief said early on yesterday this City will never be the same and this is one of those situations where our words do not do it justice, the grief, the sadness, the anger, that folk should be feeling about this horrific tragedy.

A prayer service turned to a mass shooting. That should not happen. Don, we're going to get back to you.

And coming up next, it was just an ordinary drive to work but something caught Debbie Dill's eye, listen here.

DEBBIE DILL: You know there was just something inside of me that said it wasn't just - it just didn't look right to me.

BOLDUAN: It didn't look right. Next you're going to hear much more from the woman who saw Dylann Roof driving next to her and she called 911.

And again throughout the show we continue to remember and pay tribute to all nine of the lives lost in this horrific tragedy. Ethel Lance was 70 years old. Before her retirement she spent her career running operations backstage at a Charleston Performing Art Center. Lance's co-workers say that they missed her dearly after she retired, that she ruled the backstage for 34 years and that no-one dared move into her territory.

And her cousin, Susie Jackson, was also gunned down on this terrible night during bible study. Jackson at 87 years old was the oldest victim to lose her life. She was a long time member of Emanuel AME, a choir member and an usher. Jackson's grandchildren say she was a giving person with a great smile.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just her being here about two weeks ago gave us a chance to see her smile and laugh and say hi to the grandkids.

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[11:47:08] BOLDUAN: We're back now with new details about the 21 year old man who has now confessed to massacring those nine people at their church in Charleston.

Police say that Dylann Roof is now charged with nine counts of murder and possession of a firearm. His first court appearance is set for later today, at 2:00 p.m.

It was an intense manhunt that brought him into custody and for much more on that part of the story let's get back to Charleston where Don Lemon - Don Lemon is there. And Don you had this amazing opportunity to speak with the woman who really was the key in all of this. You called her a hero. I think we can all call her a hero. She was the woman who finally found him and had her wits about her to call 911.

LEMON: Yes, it was - it was actually a couple. It was her and her husband, Debbie Dill and Todd Frady. And she was on her way to work and she described - they both described to me what happened. They were a team and they did it in tandem. Here's part of our conversation, take a listen Kate.

DEBBIE DILL: I told him that I was going to go back out onto 74 and that's when he called the police. I was going to go back out onto 74 and see if I could catch up with him and at least get a tag number. Because I mean there was just something inside of me that said it wasn't just - it didn't look right to me, I had seen the little tag on the front of his car and everything was just, you know, kind of - and I even noticed the haircut that he had from watching it from the news. So everything inside of me said it's possible but everything inside of me didn't want to believe if either so.

So no, he didn't make me do that ...

TODD FRADY: I suggested it.

DILL: He just, you know, he - I mean I said I'm going to go do that and then I said - but he stayed on the phone with me and he stayed on the phone with the Kings Mountain Police.

LEMON: I think I read where you said God had a plan and put you guys in the right place at the right time, do you believe that? What do you - what do you make of that?

DILL: Oh, I know that, oh...

FRADY: Definitely.

DILL: That's it - that's what it was. It was - it was him all the way, it was him from the beginning, it was him from the time I left my house this morning, it was him that made me look at that car. It was God who made this happen. It don't have nothing to do with Debbie, it don't have nothing to do with Todd, it's all about him. He made this happen. LEMON: She said it was divine intervention Kate, that the prayers of all the people in Charleston and around the country really helped with that as well.

BOLDUAN: It's really amazing Don I mean you talk about the right place at the right time but it's also so easy in any circumstance to just keep driving and to not listen to those feelings that you get when you think you might have saw something and you just ignore them you know.

LEMON: Or even pay attention, yes.

BOLDUAN: Right, yes, just amazing, what a great interview and what a great woman as well as her husband. Don's going to stick with us.

But let's continue with this story, a different focus on the story. I want to go to Drew Griffin now who is in Colombia, South Carolina. Drew, you were able to speak to the pastor of Dylann Roof's family, no small irony there. What are they telling you?

[11:50:04] DREW GRIFFIN: CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know we really haven't heard from this family and they said there is going to be a statement through their lawyer sometime later today Kate. But we did speak to the pastor who came out of the sister's home, Amber Roof, who by the way was supposed to get married this weekend, that wedding is now postponed, and the Minister told us that he, along with the family, are trying to get through this. Here's what he had to say.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you Sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who all was at this meeting Reverend?

REVEREND: Just now, just the family.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just the family? Yes, so grandpa, sister,

REVEREND: Yes just the immediate family, the grandfather.

GRIFFIN: One more, have they decided to do this supposed wedding or not or?

REVEREND: It's been postponed.

GRIFFIN: It has been postponed. Thank you Pastor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you guys.

GRIFFIN: Kate, you didn't hear the first part of that interview which is when he came out and he said that he was basically trying to help this family through this crisis a different kind of crisis that the families in Charleston are facing. But he did say that this family is praying for all the families involved. He also told me that Dylann Roof in jail, in Charleston, is being ministered to as well. So this family huddling with a different kind of emergency and crisis and grief and suffering none the less, Kate. BOLDUAN: It sounds like that family also has many questions as well

as many outside of that family of questions for them. But both side's very different emergencies that you say that they're dealing with but all of them hurting at this moment.

Thanks, Drew Griffin, on that for us. We're going to get back to Drew because that's the first time really we've heard anything from Dylan Roof's family and very much so.

All right we're going to get back - we're going to get back to Charleston next. Known of course as Holy City for its large number of Churches. Parishioners are going to be heading back to services this weekend. What can the message be and will people feel safe? That's a question we're going to take on.

And we also at this hour continue to honor the victims of the church massacre in Charleston, from the youngest 26 years old to the oldest 87 year old - an 87 year old grandmother. Daniel Simmons was a retired pastor who was on the staff at the Emanuel AME Church. The 74 year old attended services there every Sunday and bible study there every Wednesday of course including the night that he was gunned down.

And Sharonda Singleton was a speech therapist, a high school track and field coach, and a reverend at Emanuel AME Church. She sounds like an amazing woman. The 45 year old had been a track and field athlete herself. Her son spoke out and said that she was a God bearing woman who loved everyone with her whole heart.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Love is always stronger than hate so we just love the way my mom would and the hate won't be anywhere close to where love is. I just think about her smile. She smiled 24/7, that's what I'm just thinking about to push me on and do stuff like this, just thinking about her smile.

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[11:55:40]: We continue this hour to honor the lives of the nine people gunned down during bible study in this senseless tragedy Tywanza Sanders was the youngest victim that night. Just look at that smile. The 26 year old barber died trying to save his aunt, Susie Jackson from a bullet, he couldn't do that. Friends say Sanders got his degree in Business Administration. Was generous and committed to his church and his family.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anything you asked him to do he would do. You just - you just if you met him you knew you had a good friend on your side regardless of anything. He made you smile even when you didn't want to smile. Happy all the time, always smiling.

BOLDUAN: As the South Carolina community tries to come to terms with the tragedy that we've been hearing throughout the hour 21 year old Dylann Roof has confessed to entering a church, entering that church and shooting nine people dead. But this grief is not just being felt in Charleston of course, it's being felt in communities and churches and houses of worship across the country. What's the message now?

Let's bring in Pastor R. C. Blakes Jr. He oversees the New Home Family of Churches with six locations across the south. All are now on alert after the Charleston Church shooting.

Pastor thank you so much for joining me. It's such a horrific conversation that we even have to be having. What are you hearing from your congregations? From your parishioners right now?

PASTOR R.C. BLAKES JR.: Well there's a great concern obviously even on last evening we had a church meeting and there was a sense of anxiety about what might happen, what were - what were the security matters that were in force to make sure that everyone was safe. It's a - it's a different kind of anxiety in the black church at this time.

BOLDUAN: What kind of precautions, extra precautions are you putting in place?

BLAKES JR.: Well we've always had security in our church or in our churches, but even on last night I sat down with certain individuals that are part of that security team and we discussed going even further in terms of having security cameras or cameras around the perimeters of the various facilities so that security personnel in the church can see what's going on at any time. Even in terms of extending the security responsibilities to the entire church population so as to make them aware of any suspicious activity or persons that might be present who are obviously not engaged in the worship experience.

BOLDUAN: Yes, I mean it's just sad and it shouldn't have to be but it's the reality that you're facing right now. As you're speaking it reminded me of something that a Governor of South Carolina Nikki Haley that she - that she talked about in the aftermath she spoke very emotionally holding back tears and speaking about the message that the conversations that parents are going to have to have with their kids going forward. If we have that sound byte let's run that.

NIKKI HALEY, GOVERNOR OF SOUTH CAROLINA: Parents are having to explain to their kids how they can go to church and feel safe and that's not something we ever thought we'd deal with.

BOLDUAN: And have to explain to kids how they're going to go church and feel safe. What is your message this weekend?

BLAKES JR.: Well my message this weekend as it always is I consider myself an ongoing advocate for peace. My message is continuing to talk about racial reconciliation but at the same time alongside that discussing the security measures that are being enforced in our ministry so as to make everyone feel safe. And not excluding the children from that conversation, allowing them to hear that they are amongst a group of adults who have a structure in place for their safety and for their wellbeing.

I think that is the best approach we can take as a ministry or as churches to make our children feel a sense of security in the worship experience. BOLDUAN: I guess so. It's just still a tragedy that conversation

even has to occur. And that conversation has to occur, I bet a lot of folks are going to be looking to you for that guidance this weekend, Pastor R. C. Blakes, thank you so much. Thank you so much for joining me.

And thank you all for joining us. A very tough couple of days of news to cover but the news is very, very busy today.

So thanks so much for joining us at this hour, Legal View with Ashley Banfield starts right now.