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LEGAL VIEW WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD

Political and Social Aspects of South Carolina Shootings Discussed. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired June 18, 2015 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[12:30:11] JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And you have seen -- Jeb Bush was supposed to be in South Carolina. He said today is not the day to go. Donald Trump is supposed to be there tomorrow. He said it's not the time to go. Others have taken steps to say, let's just not politicize this.

Lindsey Graham, the South Carolina Republican Senator, says he's going to home to be in his community today and not to be out doing things that could be viewed as political.

So we do see those adjustments, Hillary Clinton was just in South Carolina yesterday Ashleigh, she left before this tragedy unfolded.

We will watch this play out. Chris Christie will have a town hall in New Hampshire today, the subject of gun control might come up. As we have the conversation at this moment, I'm almost hesitant to go in to that debate because today is the day to focus on the horror and the tragedy, and now the apparently successful law enforcement efforts in Charleston. But yes, will gun control be part of the conversation the next presidential election? It depends in part on how much of an issue those who favor gun control or at least having the past that would be mostly on the democratic side in this race, want to make an issue. Let's have that conversation in a week or two down the line.

I think today is the day, we're more focus on the healing. But the president made quite clear there. He said, I've had to do this too many times. And I wish the country would have that conversation.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN HOST: Well and I think, you know, it's a key -- Deb Feyerick just reported the resources within law enforcement, have confirmed that this man is young 21-year-old man was arrested with a 45 caliber handgun. It's unclear if it's the same handgun that apparently his father purchased for him as a birthday present, as a 21st birthday present just within the last month or so.

But critically the details of this case embodies so many of the issues that politician are having to wrestle with and maybe forced to even wrestle with more now. Although I say that when we've also live through Sandy Hook. And each time this happened we say the same thing John how can it get worse than this.

KING: Well Ashleigh on this issue like so many issues. I think the first test is can you to have the conversation because we have to acknowledge this is a very different conversation in Manhattan or in Washington D.C. than it is in where the presidential candidates were spending most of their time, places like Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina.

And we have to respect that that there's a different view on this issue across the country that, I'm not smart enough to say what should happen. But the one thing that's frustrating on this issue is whether you have somebody like a Michael Bloomberg the former mayor of New York who is still to this day is spending money trying to advance gun control legislation or whether you have the National Rifle Association who says no, especially during this president, they have said nothing during the Republican administration of George W. Bush, they were open more to background checks.

You can't even get the people who are in the opposing end of the spectrum, in the same room to have a conversation because it immediately comes to polarize political debate. And again, I'm not sure it's quite appropriate for us to be having this fight today or this -- starting this conversation today, given that, you know, nine people have been brutally gunned down.

But it is inevitable that we will turn here at some point and it was obvious that the president of the United States knowing the sensitivity of the moment decided he made the conscious choice that he was going to raise it and he knew most of the country would be watching.

BANFIELD: I was wondering if he would, if he would just talk about the dark history in what happened in the significance of that particular oldest black church in the south being targeted or if he would talk gun control. And he did, he went there.

John King, thank you for your insight. I just want to make one note that Mayor Bill de Blasio of New York City, also -- the tweet has gone out that the NYPD has increased security at black churches across the city as a precaution after the Charleston shooting.

With that in mind and what John just talked about and with how this country is trying to heal as the politicians may craft their messages as those with special interest may use this, maybe down the road, maybe right away. We know one thing is happening right away and there is pain, suffering and an attempted healing. And to that end there are a lot of vigils that we are about to experience. There is one already underway at the Charleston Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal or excuse me at the -- at a church that's not far from the Charleston Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal where that crisis took place.

This is the Morris ground African Methodist Episcopal Church. And I said it earlier standing room only doesn't describe it. This is the overflow, the overflow of those who have come to share, to grieve, perhaps to unify, to ask questions, to get answers or just to feel something other than horror and sorrow from what happened to those nine innocent victims in that church prayer vigil, bible study last night.

Not at least of whom was the pastor of that church the Reverend Clementa Pinckney who the president just said he knew personally, picture of him on the right of your screen.

[12:35:05] We're back right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: We're continuing with our breaking news, I want to get you up to speed on the capture of a suspected gunman last night in that massacre at Emanuel AME Church in Charleston South Carolina.

As you may know by now, a gunman who reportedly announced that come "to shoot black people" did just that, killing 9 of the 12 worshipers in the Emanuel Church basement bible study.

Late this morning the suspect was identified as this man, 21-year-old Dylan Roof a Lexington, South Carolina. And just about an hour later we learned that he'd been apprehended in a car that had already made its way to North Carolina.

In a new conference that you may have seen live here on CNN, police said Roof was armed when the officers pulled him over and approach that car. And they did so because of a tip that was called in from a citizen.

[12:40:01] So far the only victim among those 9 whose identity has been confirmed is the churches pastor, who was also a state senator, the Reverend Clementa Pinckney.

Today he was honored by colleagues in the South Carolina Capitol where his death had been draped with black. And a single rose.

The murder scene is a landmark not only in Charleston but also in African-American history founded in 1816 by Morris Brown. Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church has withstood fire and earthquake and pre-civil war laws banning black churches.

The president even just made reference to the storied history. A former pastor tells the Washington Post "that that church has a legacy and it won't be destroyed because of this."

Just moments ago the president speaking from the White House did not hide his frustration at yet another horrific shooting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES: I've had to make statements like this too many times. Communities like this have had to endure tragedies like this too many times. We don't have all the facts, but we do know that, once again, innocent people were killed in part because someone who wanted to inflict harm had no trouble getting their hands on a gun. Now is the time for mourning and for healing.

But let's be clear, at some point, we as a country will have to reckon with the fact that this type of mass violence does not happen in other advanced countries. It doesn't happen in other places with this kind of frequency. And it is in our power to do something about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BANFIELD: The president also in his live address to the nation addressing the one person we know confirmed as one of the 9 dead. And it is the pastor of this church.

One of the people killed in that rampage was also a state senator, was also a vocal advocate for change in the Charleston community.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Reverend Clementa Pinckney lost his life doing what he loved, praying, preaching, praising.

A devoted servant who connected with those who came to listen.

CLEMENTA PINCKNEY: God we welcome and invite you into this place, your house. We thank you for the spirit that dwells here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: According to his churches website, Pinckney answered the calls who preach at the tender age of just 13. He became a pastor at 18 and by 23 another accomplishment in his young life entering public service by becoming the youngest black person ever elected to the South Carolina state legislature.

Today State Senator Pinckney's legislative seat is covered by a black cloth to mark his passing.

MARLON KIMPSON, SOUTH CAROLINA STATE SENATOR: Senator Pinckney was a giant of a man who took his job seriously. Not only as a state senator but as a pastor

PINCKNEY: And into this process...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Recently State Senator Pinckney a Democrat stood with South Carolina civil rights leaders in calling for police to wear body cameras, a response to the shooting of an unarmed black man Walter Scott by a white police officer.

PINCKNEY: Every person in South Carolina needs to know that they will have equal protection under the law. And that a badge and a gun is not to give someone superiority or will trump their constitutionally protected privileges and rights in South Carolina.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At just 41, Reverend Pinckney leaves behind a wife and two daughters, along with the community of friends and colleagues trying to come to grips with his lost.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: And one of the people trying to come to grips with that lost is Wilda Robinson who worked closely with Reverend Pinckney and she's kind enough to join us now.

Ms. Robinson, I'm so sorry for what you are going through. And the wider community that felt so connected to this remarkable leader.

I wanted to ask you that in your work with the reverend can you give me a better a wider understanding of what kind of a man and what kind of leader and what kind of a force he was?

I'm sorry Ms. Robinson, I'm so sorry we're having a problem with that audio channel obviously in breaking news we're doing the best we can to bring all voices to the table.

[12:45:08] We're going to continue to work on, Wilda Robinson's connection. I'm so sorry Ms. Robinson as we reestablish the connection was Ms. Robinson. And as we learn more about the suspect, we're going to be finding out what a process will be as he begins to move through what is sure to be a labyrinthian part of the American system of jurisprudence and is sure to be extraordinarily unpleasant.

We're going to take a break, we're going to examine a lot of different aspects about where the story goes from here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: We've got additional breaking news that I want to bring to your attention. And it's never easy to bring this kind of attention in a story. But we have another confirmation of one of the victims of last night's massacre at the church in South Carolina.

The second victim being confirmed as Tywanza Sanders apparently a 2014 graduate of Allen University in Columbia, South Carolina, that just coming in to our CNN offices. But again it's always difficult to make these announcements when the names become confirmed but it's important for those who know.

She now joins the Reverend Clementa Pinckney as the confirmed victims of last night's massacre.

And just before the break he had some audio problems with Wilda Robinson who worked closely with Reverend Pinckney.

And I'm sorry about that Ms. Robinson, I want to bring you back in to ask that question I ask before the break and that is, I was hoping you could give me a wider feel for the person you worked with, the person knew Reverend Pinckney as a man and as a leader.

[12:50:06] WILDA ROBINSON: Senator Pinckney represented Allendale County Youth (ph) Senate District. We are one of the 6th counties that he presented. And probably the most economically challenged county.

And so maybe it was -- just maybe want to ensure the Allendale County was not like overcook (ph).

BANFIELD: Oh this is so troublesome and I apologize deeply we're having problems yet again with our audio connection. Ms. Robinson, if you can hear me but I do apologize we're going to have to work again to reestablish that connection and come to you because I do want to know more about who seems to be such a remarkable man, I mean imagine at the age of 13 becoming a reverend.

And at the age of 23 being a member of a legislature, I mean that is just a mind you do not want to lose in, in such a tragic consent less way.

I want to bring in Paul Callan our CNN Legal Analyst because as the suspect and I do say suspect the attorney general herself Loretta Lynch was clear that if we have the right person there is a world of hurt ahead for Mr. Dylan Roof, starting with, and the authorities mentioned this just moments ago the extradition process to get him out of North Carolina and down to South Carolina and then what.

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well once he's transferred to South Carolina then we have a whole bunch of laws we have to look at. But the most important is the homicide statutes, the murder statutes and South Carolina has the death penalty, they inflict death by electrocution or by lethal injection.

And they've done it over 40 times since 1985 when the death penalty was restored. So they're not shy about using the death penalty in South Carolina.

BANFIELD: Jury is not shy about bringing down that verdict?

CALLAN: Well absolutely and in this case there are two things that would qualify as a death penalty offense. One multiple homicide victims and two that members of the public were endangered by the gunfire during the course of the homicide so, it does qualify under the South Carolina statute.

Now other thing that's interesting as I've looked over South Carolina law, it's one of the states that has no hate crime legislation on the books.

So we've heard a lot that this could turnout to be hate crime that certain looks like one at this one. But it looks like South Carolina does not have a statute that would make that a crime, well of course with the death penalty in play, the maximum penalty is already available.

BANFIELD: I am curious about that because Loretta Lynch the attorney general for the United States of America in addressing the press this morning spoke specifically to the parallel investigation the state investigation, the federal investigation. And she was asked why the federal prosecution is necessary since South Carolina have a death penalty and since you wouldn't need any kind of a hate crime enhancement.

There are times when certain trials have been modeled by that and prosecutors have opted to forego that in the interest of getting the conviction in a simple clear concise way.

CALLAN: Well and that's and it's a very good point and we should emphasize that federal hate crime legislation, the shepherd law would apply in this circumstance. So the feds could intervene. But it would be a lesser crime and as you mentioned a lot of lawyers think why add an additional obstacle something they have to prove the hate crime when you probably have a clear cut in multiple homicide case with the death penalty. It just makes it a tougher case to prove. BANFIELD: I want to bring in Juliette Kayyem who's our National Security Analyst. And I was specifically Juliette wanted to talk to you not so much about national security but more about your work, you know, in civil rights with the DOJ. Get me inside that room with the attorney general and what her forces are dealing with. And announcing that that investigation has started in Ernest but then it might not be necessary.

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Right so, Paul brings up a great point. Look we have joint jurisdiction in this country both federal and state. The hate crimes legislation was originally passed because many states were not prosecuting these horrendous hate crimes in the shepherd case obviously, sexual orientation hate crime.

So the civil rights division will generally look to see whether the state is moving forward or is it being negligent. And if it's being negligent to civil rights division we'll then say "OK, we'll be the lead prosecutors," this is on the prosecution side.

So the investigations going to include both the feds and the state and localities and actually in this case two states at the stage. But the prosecution I would suspect is going to reside with the states. Since there's just no question at South Carolina is going to want to prosecute this guy.

And as Paul was saying in both hate crime cases, I also know that the word terrorism is being debated and I understand why this is a form of terror.

BANFIELD: Yeah.

KAYYEM: With terrorism cases are also motive cases. Those are very hard to prove. South Carolina has a pretty strong case right now without bringing motive into it.

[12:55:10] BANFIELD: So hold that up for a moment Paul, just quickly if you can help me understand if his father bought that gun there is some talk that there could be exposure to that father who gave him that gun. If in fact he's guilty and that gun was used.

CALLAN: There are literally hundreds if not thousands of obscure gun regulations in the United States. However in looking at this if a gift has made from one blood relative to another that's an exception under federal gun law.

So I don't think this will be a federal gun crime.

BANFIELD: OK, it's interesting to know though a lot of people are making comments about that. And in fact both Juliette and Paul I want to thank you for your insight, I want to talk about the people who've been making comments a lot of activity on Twitter rallying around Charleston today posting messages of condolence and support using the #CharlestonStrong.

From there you can also link to some local news reports community organizations and the Charleston Churches who are updating the feed with updates from -- and information from the people of Charleston themselves.

I want to thank you for being with us today. Our coverage continues throughout the day. My colleague Wolf Blitzer is going to pick up right after the short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)