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AT THIS HOUR WITH BERMAN AND MICHAELA

New Developments in Search for Escaped Killers; Interview with former Hostage Robert Fowler. Aired 11:30a-12:00p ET.

Aired June 15, 2015 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[11:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. New developments this morning in the search for escaped killers Richard Matt and David Sweat. The New York Governor Andrew Cuomo ordered an internal investigation into how these men managed their stunning break from a maximum security prison 10 days ago. Prosecutor say the man - these men may have found more tools for construction being done inside the prison as they tunneled underground.

ANDREW WYLIE, CLINTON COUNTY NEW YORK DISTRICT ATTORNEY: There was construction going on in the, in the blocks which the inmates had access to, and I say, the inmate where I'm a talking about Sweat and Matt that they had access once they got out of two cells, once they were able to get down into the tunnel system, they located a toolbox. And within that toolbox there could have been some power tools in that toolbox that they utilize to assist them in furthering their escape route.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Now, officials also say they may have rehearsed their escape plan at nights, for many nights despite more than 900 tips and every law enforcement agency you can think of on the hunt, hopes of capturing them fade seems with every day.

Meanwhile the prison worker charged with helping them escape was back in court this morning. Let's talk about the manhunt more though. Joining us now is retired Maryland State Police Corporal Doug Lowry and he's also president of the National Police Bloodhound Association. As you can see right there, his bloodhound, Watson, is joining us as well. Thank you so much for joining us.

The dogs we've been told have been key in this investigation, in this manhunt so far. Last week they said that they had a strong scent that they were on that could have en picked up by the dogs that were working to track these guys, but that clearly nothing came of it. How long does the scene last? Does that mean this trail has gone cold?

DOUG LOWRY, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL POLICE BLOODHOUND ASSOCIATION: Well, it may have gone cold. It depends on a lot of factors as far as how much a scent will last. Weather conditions, contamination within the search area. You know, wind conditions, things like that.

So it's really locked up to the dog as to what he's able, to follow and what he's not. I mean, unless you try, you don't know whether he can pick up a scent or not.

BERMAN: We've been told that guys like Watson and his friends are very good, almost perfect in some cases in finding a scent it is there. If you are one of these guys, a convict on the run, if you're trying to evade dogs like Watson, what do you do?

LOWRY: Well, I think the best thing to do is keep on the move. If you can keep moving on the dog, unless you hopscotch, when I say hopscotch is, you know, bring dogs to points last seen and so forth, as long as you keep on the move and you're in a lot of contamination as far as traffic that makes them more difficult for dog to follow and, you know, ground surfaces that determine the availability of the trail, I think that 'she best thing they can do, is just keep moving.

BOLDUAN: What do you make of the terrain that they are working with. This is a really heavily wooded area. How does that play into how effective the dogs can be?

LOWRY: That they should be ideal conditions for dogs. I mean, it's, it's probably a virgin territory. There's not much activity going on in that type of area. So it would be ideal conditions compared to city work or urban worker, things like that.

[11:35:00] BERMAN: Once you lose a scent, I mean, how many investigations have you been on when you have a strong scent like this but the dog has lost it? Do then find it again?

LOWRY: Well, as far as my learning experiences, I mean, I have been on, on searches and trails where for some reason or another dog just loses it, and you don't know why. Sometimes you do because there's been - you find out later there's been a vehicle pickup in other words, the person that you're looking for is picked up by a vehicle and the trail is no longer available to the dog, but you just, you just don't know.

And I mean you don't know why the dog has it. There's time where - but if you cast your dog in the area to let him try to work it out and find the trail again. There's times where they can pick up that trail and continue on what - there's no really determining factor as to why the dog loses it. Just for some reason they do.

BOLDUAN: Now, if you were working in the scene. If you and your dog is working in the scene, for nine days in now. What are you doing? What are they doing out there today?

LOWRY: Well, I think they're looking for a break as far as if they have a siting or point last seen and that has to be substantiated to be a good sighting. If they had a sighting that is confirmed and you now, in fact, that it is the sighting of the escapees a you want to protect that scene. Keep it clear for the dogs and then bring your dog in with the scent articles you have available to you and hopefully they were able to obtain several articles from the prison area but you want to keep that area clean and let the dog come in and give him his scent article to start with. And to see if he does pick up a trail in going with it. BOLDUAN: Doug Lowry, thanks so much and for bringing Watson in

this in this as well. He came and went to the interview as he pleased.

BERMAN: Watson was not happy with the questioning. He got out.

BOLDUAN: He was like I don't do follow-ups.

LOWRY: He was not. So thank you.

BOLDUAN: Thank you so much. Coming upon us, the U.S. airstrikes deep inside Libya. The target one of America's most wanted, terrorists. Coming up we're going to talk to a former hostage kidnapped by this leader.

BERMAN: Looked that man square in the eye, what does he make of this man to U.S. went after. Plus, Jeb Bush, he's the guy who has pretty much been running for president for months. Well, now he's really running for president in at least in three hours. What does he need to do in his official announcement to get his module back.

[11:40:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLDUAN: There's no secret that Jeb Bush is going to get into the race for the White House. He just needed to make the official announcement. In less than four hours than now he will do just that. The eleventh Republican formally launched his candidacy, the former Florida governor, the presidential son, the presidential brother has a pretty sweet name recognition to be sure.

But name recognition is not everything as some recent polls have begun to show. Our Dana Bash, who has been stalking Jeb Bush all across the world over several days.

BOLDUAN: Legal stalking.

BERMAN: Legal stalking. Is in Miami for the announcement and I think it's safe to say the Bush campaign has perhaps more work ahead and he might have thought going into this announcement day.

DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely and I would just say maybe accompanying is the more legal way that we can frame it. But yes, absolutely. Look, they know that they have work cut out for them. They were hoping that at this stage of the game after you know, been - having been exploiting for six months which has Jeb Bush has done that they too have kind of scared other people out of the field. That has not happened, just the opposite, by the end of the day, we're probably going to have about 15 republican candidates.

And you mentioned name recognition, John. It's kind of ironic that not only is the name Bush potential problem because of his brother and the problems he had at the end of his presidency it's also because people think that they know him because his name is Bush, and one of the things his friends and advisers had been telling me is that, his goal and his challenge is to say you know what, I'm Jeb, I'm not just another bush and I did have a chance to meet up with the former governor in Estonia during his travels to Europe, and I talked him about that. Here is what he said.

JEB BUSH, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I've live worked over seas. I worked overseas. I've been in business. I've served the governor and give back to my community. I have a great relationship with my wife and family and I'll get to share all of that, part of that is important. But some that took all getting used to personally to be able to show my heart was kind of introverted but it is important to do.

BASH: And there lies a big part of the problem for Jeb Bush, the fact that he says he is introverted, well, that is translated by his campaign in particular as potentially looking like he doesn't have fire in the belly. That is the big challenges that they have to overcome. They understand that, look, he's kind of a laid bad guy. He comes across that way. He's not going to give the kind speech, for example that Marco Rubio gave here in Miami about a month ago.

Clearly something that he is very good at authority that is Jeb Bush bag if you will. So he's going to give his speech today, he is going to talk a lot about his record here in Florida, explain who he is but that isn't going to get out in the campaign trail and is going to be talking one on one to voters, not giving this kind of big speech that he is going to give today.

BOLDUAN: Dana, real quick, you mentioned Marco Rubio. What do you make of the statement that Rubio put out in terms of Bush's announcement. When I call Jeb Bush a friend, I mean it.

BASH: Isn't that fascinating, well, look just for people who might not know the back story here is that Jeb Bush has been and had been Marco Rubio's mentor here in Florida politics for years and years and years. They were very, very close, and a lot of people in Jeb Bush's world were very surprised when Marco Rubio said he was still going to run for president even when Jeb Bush made clear that he was also going to run.

[11:45:00] They thought maybe, he especially since he's 20 years younger, and would wait in his turn. That didn't happen. So there has been a lot of tweaking behind the scenes and even overtly. So this was a very interesting press release that Marco Rubio split out. Tried to be very courageous saying that he welcomes them to the campaign. Well, see if that continues when the two of them are on the debate stage together.

BERMAN: One of my close dear friends whom I will now try to crash. Dana Bash in Miami in the announcement about three hours away. Thanks so much, Dana. Coming up, lions, hippos, crocodiles on the loose in a major city. Chaos right now. People considering taking hunt into their own hands. We have more remarkable pictures of this ahead.

BOLDUAN: Also, the U.S. launches an airstrike against a wanted terrorist, Al Qaeda leader responsible for deaths of three Americans. But was he actually killed? We're going to speak to someone once captured and held by these terrorist.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: This morning, the pentagon confirms an air attack in Libya was aimed in one of the most elusive terror leaders in North Africa. His name is Mokhtar Belmokhtar. He lost his left eye in combat. He's known as the Marlboro man for selling black market cigarettes. Libya officials say he was killed but the U.S. wants forensic troop before declaring it dead.

[11:50:00] BOLDUAN: Well, Mokhtar is believed to have been the brain to attack on a gas facility in Algeria back in 2013. During that, 37 hostages were killed including three Americans. He also kidnapped a Canadian diplomat back in 2008. Robert Fowler was held hostage for four months. Mr. Fowler is joining us now.

Thank you so much for joining us it's really great to see you and great to speak with you about this. This is - the man we're talking about is America's most wanted terrorist. You were his hostage, can you tell us about your experience? What was this man like?

ROBERT FOWLER, FORMER HOSTAGE: Well, Kate, it's a pleasure to be in your program. Belmokhtar was charged of the battalion held us. He wasn't all was with his command group, that held us in the middle of the Sahara desert. He would come from time to time with his command group. Stay for a day or four days and then, leave.

He was enormously respected by his troops. There were about three of them that held us. I spend number of years in our defense department up here in Canada and I think my colleagues in uniform would have judged him to be a good leader. He had a real command presence. Everybody called each other by their first names, but there was no doubt about who was the boss.

BERMAN: I've head you say, he had quite authority. A man to be feared and the group, certainly that the United States in the west should be very, very aware of.

FOWLER: Well, I think that's right. Certainly, I feared him. I was terrified for 130 days. Terrified that my last moments would be in a video clip having my head saw off. Louis, I was there with my colleague, Louis Gay. We were captured together by Belmokhtar's alleged brother in law. One of Omar's daughter and apparently was one of Belmokhtar's wives.

And it - despite our efforts to establish some kind of working relationship with our captors, I don't think we were more than one or two percent successful. That is at the end of our captivity, they would have taken our heads to Belmokhtar. He only had to give the order.

BOLDUAN: So then, what is your reaction when you hear of these airstrikes and when you hear of the possibility that he's been killed?

FOWLER: Well, my first reaction is like yours lead, Kate. That is Belmokhtar has been dead in a number of times before and I would really like to see the proof. You may remember about a year, sorry, two years ago. The Chadians reported having killed him and indeed published a photograph of the allegedly dead Belmokhtar and it wasn't him.

Indeed, given the circumstances in which they claimed he was killed, didn't think it was possible, it was him. I'm a little surprised to hear he was way up in the coast in northern Libya but that is certainly possible. I would wait to see the proof. If he is dead for me, it's sort of end of a chapter.

BERMAN: A chapter that I know was very difficult for you. We are glad you're here to talk to us about today and we, want your confirmation of his death. Robert Fowler, thank you so much for being with us.

BOLDUAN: Thank you. Ahead for us, it's like a scene from a movie, like a movie like Jumanji, remember that movie. Hippos, bears, wolves, crocodiles are roaming the streets after a flooding sets them free.

Up next, how emergency crews are now trying to capture these dangerous animals.

[11:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLDUAN: At this hour, hundreds of zoo animals - I mean we're talking lions, tigers, bears and more roaming the street after escaping their enclosures. People believed that Georgia is being told to stay inside their home until they hunt these animals down. Check out this incredible pictures.

BERMAN: Just one of the most amazing story, it's a hippo, where a hippo is not supposed to be in a middle of major city. There's also a crocodile capture right down in the middle of city streets. Half of that animals escaped after floodwater rushed through the facilities.

CNN's Senior International Correspondent Matthew Chance joins us live from Moscow. And I'm sure, Moscow you've not seen anything like this.

MATTHEW CHANCE, SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Now, it is like scene at the movie Jumanji, isn't it? I mean, it's just absolutely incredible. One man is reported to have banged the hyena on his balcony when he got up in the morning. So it's that kind of incredible scene and stories that we're hearing from on the ground in Tibias. To give you an idea of the kind of crisis, the kind of levels of animals also disappeared authorizes are dealing with.

The zoo was inundated with floodwaters. It had 600 animals or thereabout there but half of them are unaccounted for, some 300 animals gone missing, their escape to the surrounding area, the high areas. Wolves are missing as well as crocodiles and other you know, kind of potentially very dangerous animal indeed.

So there's an enormous problem with the floods caused massive, devastation. Twelve people have been killed in those floods by the way. But added to that the problem of these wild beasts roaming the place potentially trying to eat people. And you can see a picture that kind of chaos and a kind of nightmare that, that city is undergoing at the moment.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely, I mean, do they know - are they saying the facility are like ones they get them back in.

CHANCE: Well, back in the zoo. The zoo has been pretty much devastated to some areas which is still operational at the higher areas. In fact they put the hippo back into the zoo after tranquilizing him. But I mean, clearly they are going to have to undergo they have to go back to scratch to get that zoo back up again. And they are probably putting most of the animals down, let's face it.

BERMAN: Matthew Chance, appreciate you being with us. A strange one.

BOLDUAN: Thanks, Matthew.

BERMAN: And thank you all for joining us At this Hour.

BOLDUAN: Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield starts right now.