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Dallas Gunman Targeting Police HQ is Dead; Hillary Clinton to New York Crowd: "It Is Time"; Exclusive Interview with Secretary Arne Duncan, Katia Beauchamp and Andrew Yang. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired June 13, 2015 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[18:00:00] POPPY HARLOW, CNN HOST: Video captured by residents nearby shows it all unfolding and the entire incident ended with the suspect dead and his armored getaway van up in flames.

A short time ago, we spoke exclusively with the judge, who awarded custody of the suspected gunman's son this week to the boy's grandmother. She said that he was unstable when he entered her courtroom and she always had increased security.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUDGE KIM COOKS, DALLAS COUNTY FAMILY DISTRICT COURT (via phone): What I know is, when he had a court appearance or when we thought that he would be in court, the security was always heightened in the building, in my courtroom. I had extra security put in place because he was always a threat to us. So we just didn't know what he would do or when he would do it or, you know, what was going to happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Police eventually shot and killed the suspect earlier today. They used a robot to detonate explosives that he had planted inside of his van.

CNN's Nick Valencia is on the ground live this Dallas following this.

Nick, what an unbelievable, sort of play out of events overnight there. I can imagine how scared the residents were nearby, how scared the officers and everybody inside headquarters was in the middle of the night when this broke out. What else do we know about suspected gunman?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. It's something that police are still trying to wrap their minds around. Right now the FBI, ATF, and local police department are digitally mapping the crime scene to try to figure out exactly how this whole thing played out. What they don't know, Poppy, is exactly what direction the gunman came from his armored vehicle.

We just got a tour of that crime scene you're looking at right behind me. And what we were told is that at least initially, the suspect was on foot. He opened fire. They believe those initial shots fired at the police headquarters were from the street. He later got inside that armored vehicle and continued his attack, smashing police squad cars and exchanging gunfire with the police.

They said on that tour, they believe the suspect used an automatic weapon, but they did not disclose the caliber. They also took us to the site of where one of those several pipe bombs detonated. No one was injured during that explosion, but we did see some heavy damage to one of those police vehicles.

The suspect eventually took police on a high-speed chase that ended about 18 miles away from here. That standoff eventually ending with the fatal shooting of the suspect. SWAT team members took him out with sniper fire.

Right now, what the investigation is focusing on is motive, Poppy. They don't know exactly what would inspire an individual to purchase or obtain an armored vehicle. And not only that, but to carry out an attack on the police department, that's a big question right now, that investigators are wrapping their minds around - Poppy.

HARLOW: I know, Nick, you also just had a chance to tour, to look, firsthand, at this damage to police headquarters. What did you see?

VALENCIA: Yes, what we saw was a lot of crime scene markers on the ground. Police investigators -- we were actually kind of surprised that they let us in. So shortly after this incident happened, just about 12 hours after the shooting happened, 15 hours or so, they let us inside. It was still a very active scene. In fact, people were putting evidence markers on our feet. The police talked about it a little bit, a little bit about what they are going through right now in their investigation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of the questions I heard earlier, were any officers hurt or injured? And right now, we have no officers that were hurt or injured, thank God. So we want to make sure that we've accounted for everybody, all right. As you can tell, the suspect made contact with officers at this location, as he was engaged in the building. Officers responded, they got to the location, and then turned on the officers.

You can tell the squad car took heavy fire and both officers that were in that vehicle survived.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And he came up here where his car was waiting?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His car was with -- he was always either in or just outside.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) vehicle?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The vehicle? We can describe it as a large van- type vehicle, armored, more like you see with an armored type of vehicle. We're asking if anybody has any other video that we don't have, if they can, they can try to give it to us so we can see what we have.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VALENCIA: And given the circumstances surrounding the shooting, it was a Friday night. A lot of people were out. A lot of people were out, especially at this boutique hotel right next-door to me, which is why we have so many amateur videos of the incident. It is fortunate according to police that no one was injured. The only person injured in this incident was the suspect, Poppy.

HARLOW: Nick Valencia reporting for us in Dallas. Nick, thank you.

Let's talk about it now with criminologist Casey Jordan.

Casey, when you look at this case, we know that the suspect just went through a bitter, bitter custody dispute, we are told, by the judge, that he was unstable. A history of mental illness. We're told by his family, he was in and out of jail. But still, to drive someone to this, what does this the tell you?

[18:00:13] CASEY JORDAN, CRIMINOLOGIST: Well, you have a combination of mental instability, Judge Cooks confirmed that, with incredible frustration and a lack of coping mechanisms. So a normal, reasonable person would be understandably upset and they may talk to a lawyer, what can I do to try to regain custody of my son, but this is not where he goes.

I understand that nobody was actually injured or killed, but you have to put him in the typology of a mass murder. Because by all accounts, with five pipe bombs and all of that artillery, doing a rampage on a police department, it should have been a massacre or mass murder. It was just beautifully handled by the Dallas police. But when we look at the psychology of mass murders, this guy is a little bit of a combination between revenge and a family annihilator.

Usually these kind of fathers that are very upset about losing custody, they have a beef with an ex-wife or partner, and they go and actually take out their revenge on the family. This guy, however, was angry with the police. And he said that they had branded him as a terrorist and I think he was determined to prove that he was -- that they were right.

HARLOW: You bring up a very interesting point, and that is that we have been told that although he did have a history of family violence, none towards his son. We're talking about a young teenage son in this case, that by all accounts, we're told that he was, you know, very loving to his son, et cetera. What does that tell you about his state of mind? That clearly, he had anger and violence issues, was not towards his child?

JORDAN: Well, you have to understand that that's why he felt so indignant and self-righteous about losing custody of his son. Because in his mind, probably, he split things into good and bad. He may have attacked another family member, odds are that it was the mother of his child. He has a history of choking and several assaults, just from years ago, almost exactly two years ago. And you know, anniversaries can sometimes trigger people. But he probably thinks that Judge Cooks was completely unjustified in taking the custody -- taking his custody away of his teenage son and giving it to the child's grandmother.

He thinks that he's a fit father. And when he lost custody of his son, the disappointment -- he had no coping mechanisms -- was so off the scale that he decided to go all in, go for broke. He just needed a scapegoat. And if the scapegoat -- and we know he's made threats against judges on his Facebook page, probably Judge Cooks, so when he couldn't find a scapegoat that he could reach, maybe his ex-partner or the judge, he went to the next best thing, which is going to be the police, who were probably responsible for all of those arrests for domestic violence in 2013.

In his mind, it got bigger than life. And that self-righteous indignation made him put all of his eggs into that basket. They became the enemy and he hatched an elaborate plan to get this van and all these pipe bombs and all this artillery and really just wreak havoc. I know he didn't plan to live through it, but I also think he counted on taking out a lot of cops in the process. And it's just a miracle that nobody lost their life.

HARLOW: It is a miracle, it is, indeed. Casey Jordan, thank you.

We are going to take a quick break. Back in a moment.

JORDAN: Thanks, Poppy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:12:11] HARLOW: All right, we're watching the terrifying aftermath of this incident in Dallas overnight, when a gunman with a history of mental illness ambushed the city's police headquarters, riddling it with bullets late last night. He planted bombs outside. He led officers on a car chase through the city. It all ended with a sniper's bullet, the gunman dead, and his van in flames.

Let's talk about it with Tom Mills, a criminal defense attorney in the Dallas area. He has worked there for 42 years.

Tom, I know you work pretty closely with some of the officers there, some of the police officers in that police department in Dallas. What are they telling you at this point in time about this shocking ambush?

TOM MILLS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, not a lot more than I've heard on your show earlier. I mean, a few details because I'm sure I haven't followed everything that you've said. I have heard that he had military grade ammunition, that he had 20 pounds of c-4 ammunition. Now, keep in mind, I'm not positive about these, but this is what I'm told.

It didn't sound to me like a professional job, but as some of your commentators have said, more of a combination of anger and either psychosis or mental illness or sociopathy. And I can see why it took it out on police because the evidence against him I think would have consisted against police reports, police investigations. And he certainly expressed anger to the judge. But I can see why he in his state would have been angry at the police for blaming them for really creating the evidence that lost him his son. HARLOW: Well, you say creating the evidence, what do you mean?

MILLS: Well, I don't mean falsely creating, but I mean, a lot of the evidence that the other side of the case, from the father would have been presenting, maybe the grandmother's side, would have consisted of police reports, when there was domestic violence. So in every one of those police reports, it would have consisted of police officers going to the scene and then those police officers either testifying in trial or in a deposition or the reports being read. Whatever the case was in this particular case. So the evidence was largely from the police. So, apparently --

HARLOW: Understood.

MILLS: Yes, apparently he had just a tremendous amount of anger at the police.

HARLOW: Thank goodness none of them were injured.

Tom, I do want to switch gears here, because you have been hired as the criminal defense attorney for an officer in Texas named Eric Casebolt (ph). We're looking at the video of the officer there. This happened at the -- in McKinney, Texas, where a group of teenagers were at the pool. Police responded to some sort of altercation. He pinned one of the young girls down on the ground there. He pulled out his gun, at those two young boys. He has since resigned from the police department. The police chief there saying his actions were indefensible. What is your client saying at this point in time?

[18:15:15] MILLS: client has said that this needs to be expanded upon. What is played on the TV, on all of the stations, this film clip is a portion that makes my client look the worst, possibly, that he could. But I believe that the audio that will exist some time and the statements of witnesses and the video that was taken before this clip happened is going to show that his actions were, in fact, reasonable, and necessary, and done professionally under the circumstances.

I very strongly disagree with the characterizations that the police chief made about the -- criticizing the action of my client.

HARLOW: So he believes his actions were an appropriate response? Why is that?

MILLS: Well, why is that? Because there were fights going on. Because people were yelling at people to run away from the police. People were running at him from his right side, as though they were --

HARLOW: But why did he pull his weapon?

MILLS: Because two people came at him from the right side, I believe, that were adult-sized men and that's the side of his body that his gun was on.

HARLOW: OK. Criminal charges have not been filed yet. Does he believe charges will be filed? He's brought you on for criminal representation.

MILLS: Well, I'm on in case. We don't know if criminal charges are going to be filed. But, we know -- I wouldn't be surprised if there were some civil suits filed. Maybe. Don't know what the -- what will happen in that arena. But in case there are criminal charges filed, we want prepared to give his side of the story and other witnesses' side of the story that support him.

HARLOW: Tom Mills, thank you very much for joining me. We appreciate it.

MILLS: You're welcome.

HARLOW: All right. Coming up next, two convicted killers still on the run in New York. The woman accused of helping them escape from a maximum security prison is behind bars. The latest on the hunt for these two men, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:21:43] HARLOW: More than a week after two convicted killers pulled off a stunning prison break, they are still on the lam. That is despite a manhunt involving more than 800 law enforcement officers.

Miguel Marquez is with me. He is on the ground.

Miguel, you were in the midst of this active search today. I want you to tell us about it. We're going to roll the video so people can see what you saw. What was it like?

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We saw some of the most intense searching we've seen so far. Hundreds of those 800 law enforcement officers lined up along route 3. We were right in the middle of it. So this is about a mile and a half southeast of Clinton correctional facility. They moved into the area, up into a very hilly and very brushy and overgrown area, near the road. And this is also the area where they believe they picked up the scent of these two murders, who were on the run, several days ago.

The officers moved up into this area, and then they would move to the next road, while other officers were moving in from other areas. The part that we saw, literally, must have been 200 to 300 officers, about 10 feet apart, moving up into this very, very heavily wooded area. Clearly, not taking any chances.

Still, this area that we have been talking about for the last 48 to 72 hours is the place that they think that these individuals are. There's been no bona fide sightings of them, but they have no reason to believe that they are anywhere else but there, and they are pouring everything into it - Poppy.

HARLOW: Why do they think that two men are still together?

MARQUEZ: Because they don't have any information that they are apart. They escaped together. I think that the two, clearly, planned this together. And they presume that they are continuing to be together. They don't really know. I mean, given the information that we heard from the press conference last night, it's clear that either they don't know a lot about what's going on, or they're not revealing it - Poppy.

HARLOW: Stunning, something like this has never happened up at that prison. Anyone who's escaped has been gone nearly this long.

Miguel, thank you very much.

We are going to take a quick break. We'll be right back in a minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:28:01] HARLOW: Earlier this week at the Clinton global initiative in Denver, Colorado, I sat down with education secretary, Arne Duncan, Katia Beauchamp, Birchbox co-founder and entrepreneur, and venture for America founder, Andrew Yang. We talked about how the American workforce is changing and what we need to do to stay ahead.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Let me start with you, Secretary Duncan. It seems like every city that I go to, and I focus a lot on income inequality and poverty in this country in my reporting, and every city I go to, I speak to mothers. Mothers in Bridgeport, Connecticut. Mothers in Baltimore. Mothers in Detroit. And I ask them what they need. And they say, I need better education for my kids. And I know it is an answer that frustrates people.

But you just told me 81 percent, that's the high school graduation rate in this country. Is our system moving fast enough to help the people that need it most? And what's the change that you want to see, to create the opportunity to create the next Katia and Andrew?

ARNIE DUNCAN, EDUCATION SECRETARY: So we're thrilled that our nation has an historic high of graduation rates, 81 percent. Even more pleased that every group of students, African-American, Latino, native American, Asian, white students, poor children, children with special needs, English language learners, everyone is improving, but we are not getting better fast enough.

I really do think this income inequality, this division in society, between the haves and the have-nots, that's the defining issue that we have to solve. And I think we can only solve that by giving great educational opportunity to every child. And I think that the dividing line in our nation now is less they're around class, they're around education opportunity. You give me the poorest kid from a toughest neighborhood and for, you know, single mom, or dysfunctional family, put them in a great early childhood education program. Put them in a good elementary and middle school. Put them in a high school where they have high expectations and a chance to take AP classes. That student -- that young person will be just fine.

But absent those things, we're actually perpetuating poverty, perpetuating social failure. So I think while education has always been critically important, I would argue it's never been more important. So what do we need to do to scale? To give every child a chance? I always start with early childhood education. It's the best investment we can make.

[18:30:08] HARLOW: Pre-k?

DUNCAN: Pre-k. High-quality pre-k. And if our babies can enter kindergarten, ready to be successful, then the world changes for them. If they start behind, we don't do a great job of catching them up. Making sure that children are going to schools with high expectations, with great teachers and great principals, the chance to be truly college and career ready changes everything. And if they can graduate high school and go on to some form of higher education, they have a real shot in life. But we have to take to scale what does work for children.

HARLOW: That has to be the most important thing, doesn't it?

(CROSSTALK)

DUNCAN: Yes. Obviously, I'm biased, but I think everyone else is far down below that. And just growing up in Chicago and working in the inner city, on the south side, I understood how powerful education was. But what I also saw was that too many of my friends growing up shot and killed, got locked up, and the ones where that happened, with these tragic outcomes as a young kid, that's very, very hard to watch. Those are ones that didn't graduate from high school. My friends that graduate from high school didn't have those, so it's bigger than education. We talk about Baltimore, we talk about Ferguson, you can't talk about these big, massive social issues without talking about real educational opportunity, or the lack of that opportunity.

HARLOW: Andrew, you have said, well, your goal, issued say, also, is to create 100,000 new U.S. jobs, right, by 2025. You think we are training people for careers that existed 20 years ago. Do we need something drastic? Something dramatic to really shake things up?

ANDREW YANG, FOUNDER, VENTURE FOR AMERICA: Well, I believe we do. And as one example, there's a town in Michigan where they're testing self-driving cars and they're projected to come online in 20 years. Right now, there are about 900,000 Americans that drive cars for a living. And many of them are t no really prepared for different --

HARLOW: Bus drivers, taxi drivers, chauffeurs.

YANG: Yes, so there's a curve coming. This is the first time in recorded history where technological advances actually haven't driven up the average income or the median income. And so, our system, right now, is in a foot race against technological progress, to be able to educate people for the jobs that are coming this year, next year, 10, 20 years from now.

HARLOW: And so, what is your recommendation? What do we need to do? Because you say that there is this misconception, that innovation only comes from Silicon Valley. That we need to look more, at these cities that frankly need it most - the Detroits, the Baltimores. YANG: Well, the way I learned was that I had a more experienced

mentor, that I worked for, for a number of years. And I think that apprenticeship really is something that the U.S. needs to bring back. Not just in entrepreneurship, which is where my organization, bench of America focuses, but really in a variety of different fields. Right now part of our educational system is that we have a one size fits all factory model, all the way up, including for four-year degrees. And we need to introduce more varied options that lead people to productive careers that don't necessarily involve four years on campus.

KATIA BEAUCHAMP, CO-FOUNDER, BIRCHBOX: Yes. That's what I was going to say as well. I think it's really interesting that with all of the innovation around us, education just looks very similar than it did for our parents and our parents' parents. And what we really are seeing happening, which is truly exciting, is that taking risks in entrepreneurship is now bleeding into businesses directly. You see entrepreneurs making a career of disrupting education in and of itself. And that creates the flywheel that Andrew is talking about.

HARLOW: What it takes, though, is guts. You say, Andrew, we don't teach our children to take enough risks.

YANG: Entrepreneurship right now in the U.S. is at a 24-year low among 18 to 30-year-olds. I think it's exactly to the point that you're describing, that we're training our young people to be quite risk-averse and failure averse. I mean, if you got an "F" and took it home to your parents, I'm sure they wouldn't be, hey, that was a great learning experience. I think they would probably a tough conversation.

And I'm reflecting on this now more that I have a son. And so, I'm trying to, you know, like play that scene out, and be like, oh, I should be pretty understanding. But our system right now, also, is very much in the classroom, where many college graduates were fortunate enough to graduate on time, which isn't everyone, but they haven't had many experiences outside of the classroom, which is in contrast to a place like Israel, where college graduates have had two or three years in operating environments, in military service, and others. And then their appetite for risk is much, much higher. If you look at their entrepreneurship statistics, they're the highest in the world.

HARLOW: He brings up Israel a lot as an example, and Germany, apprenticeship. Is that a model we should seriously consider?

DUNCAN: It is a model. More and more high schools are moving this direction, but having a real opportunity to learn from mentors, folks who are in the entrepreneurial space. If you talk to young kids today in high school, they all want to own their own business. They don't want to work for the traditional big firms. And so, if you want to capture them, if you want to continue to increase graduation rates and reduce dropout rate, you have to provide these opportunities.

I think the thing that's so important, too, is so many of our kids are so disconnected from this world. If you go to, you know, south side of Chicago, west side, or inner city Baltimore, there aren't jobs there. There aren't businesses there. And it's hard to imagine, it's hard to dream those dreams when you are so socially disconnected. And so we have to bring the entrepreneurs into the communities. Silicon valley is fantastic. What Andrew's doing to bring them into Detroit and the other places is so desperately important. Our kids need mentors, they need role models, they need those opportunities.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[18:35:34] HARLOW: When we return, one of my panelists said, there's something we desperately need more of in business, women. We'll discuss.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:40:06] HARLOW: Welcome back. More now from our discussion this week in Denver at the Clinton global initiative.

When it comes to building a successful career, becoming an entrepreneur is sometimes a path not taken because, frankly, there are so many risks. But what if leaping into the unknown came with a little bit of help.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Where's the safety net for that? Our society gives out student loans, as it should, but where is the safety net for people who take a different risk?

BEAUCHAMP: Let's be honest, right? Today there isn't a safety net. And what students and kids and the youth need to see are examples of success. And they need encouragement from society around them to tell them that there is a new definition around success, and it doesn't mean that the first thing you do with your career is the right thing. And it doesn't mean that starting a company that fails is a failure.

DUNCAN: I really worry less about the safety net than I would about the lack of opportunity. Andrew, how many applicants do you have for how many slots?

YANG: 1,600 for 125.

DUNCAN: Kids are looking for these kinds of opportunities. Whether it's - what he is doing to teach America. There are wildly more applicants than slots available. I think from my - so worry is less about protecting against failure. I think failure's fine. We need to create more opportunities for young people, whether it's to teach, to be entrepreneurs, to serve. We just have to take that to scale.

YANG: I agree that the laddered opportunity is the most crucial piece around the safety. We've build a community of aspiring entrepreneurs, so if you do fail, you've got dozens of friends you can call up and say, hey, my company didn't work out, I need a job.

HARLOW: I need a job. YANG: And that's very real. Venture for America, because or so

activity, provides a layer of protection and also some parental cover. You know, I joke that if you have an offer from Deloitte and some start-up in Baltimore, your parents will probably be pretty pro- Deloitte. But if you have Deloitte in Venture for America, then they start thinking and then they say, do whatever you think is best.

So the goal is that we can make heading to a start-up for a place like in Baltimore, Detroit, as appealing for young people and their parents as heading to an established firm.

HARLOW: Let's talk about women. A very important issue when you talk about who gets money to start businesses. When you look at the numbers, they are pretty staggering. Company-led by women that get venture capital funding bringing 12 percent more revenue than male-led companies. This is a statistic from just recently. 400,000 businesses were started by women in 2011, 2012, twice as many as men. Yet, only three percent of venture capital funding between 2011 and 2013. Three percent went to companies with a female CEO.

Katia, where's the disconnect?

BEAUCHAMP: It comes down to something very simple. Right now, a lot of entrepreneurs and a lot of start-ups are really building businesses for themselves. So when women are building companies, often, they're thinking of themselves as an end consumer. And as we all know, women are responsible for most of the purchase decisions in a household. It's a very important consumer to consider.

However, if you're building a business geared towards a woman buyer and you are pitching that business to a male investor, it is very hard for that to resonate. And you have to learn very quickly, when you're fund-raising, to shift from what you would typically do, which is walk them through the consumer journey, to quickly talking about the size of the market, quickly saying, for us, for example, beauty is a $500 billion industry, and start talking dollars. Instead of saying, here's a pain point for an individual consumer. Which if you are a male, starting a company that relates to a male, it's just easier to have that dialogue around the true inspiration for the idea.

It glosses over a male investor's head, when you say something like, you know, the anxiety a woman feels approach -- a normal woman feels approaching a beauty counter. A male is like, let me call my wife. And it really just doesn't resonate. So you have to train women to have those conversations differently. And then, you know, we have to get more women in the seats, making the decisions around funding and around capital.

HARLOW: And Andrew, women have said, women identify problems differently than men do. Look at some of these incredible female entrepreneurs. We have one of our panel. Elizabeth (INAUDIBLE) which is doing a Terno. Look at what Sarah Blakley done at Spanx. There are so many more.

You have said, Andrew, that women actually have to be better at what they are doing than men, just to get the backing. They have to be better.

YANG: Well, as you said, only four percent of venture capitalists are women. About 20 percent of angel investors. So if you're a female entrepreneur, you have to really educate your investor class much, much more than a guy who comes in with a problem that a male investor could relate to. It's not just that. It's a lack of female role models and mentors. It's, in some cases, even having less disposable income to start a business in the first place.

So there are structural impediments at every level for female entrepreneurs, that we need to address in order to give rise to the companies that are going to solve problems like Katia's and Sarah Blakley's (INAUDIBLE).

[18:44:59] HARLOW: So how do we do that with education? Because the numbers are pretty depressing when you look at the number of women in S.T.E.M. How do we create an education system where girls stay in S.T.E.M. all the way through and that they are filling this pipeline?

DUNCAN: Let me just broaden the challenge and make it more harder. It's not just a female challenge, a girls and women challenge, it's a non-white male challenge. And the lack of diversity of Hispanic, African-American men and women in S.T.E.M., in venture, on boards, is stunning. So we have to be very honest in our nation. We struggle to talk about race. And we have to talk about gender and race here.

So it's not a simple answer. The presidents challenge us to attract and recruit 100,000 additional S.T.E.M. teachers, that reflect the diversity of our nation's students. And for me, it's not just a great A.P. calculus and physics teachers. It's teachers in third and fourth and fifth grade, who are comfortable and confident with the content knowledge, because that's often where kids start to turn off, because their teachers aren't comfortable teaching that.

So we have a whole pipeline problem, that we're working hard to solve, attracting and retaining better teachers at every level, going down to elementary school, then making sure young people have access to role models, whether they are women or whether they are role models of color, we have to close that divide.

HARLOW: How do you that? How do you get the best people to be teachers?

DUNCAN: Some places are doing fantastic work. A long way to go. But I look at places like Denver right here, where we are. I look at places like D.C., where I'm living, where you have more and more folks wanting to come and work in these school systems. They have historically struggled and have a long way to go, but by ever measure, they are getting better.

D.C. is the fastest improving school system. Denver's population is growing every single year, increasing public confidence. And I think teaching is, you know, if you want to have an impact on the community, if you want to help kids, there's no better place in the classroom.

(END VIDEOTAPE) HARLOW: Right after the break, my panel is back, talking about changing what it means to go to a community college. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:51:23] HARLOW: Welcome back. More now from our discussion this week Denver. They have barely enter the workforce but recent graduates have whole new way of looking at their careers. And I can tell you, it is about a lot more than just their paycheck.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Here's something that gives me some hope. And that is what millenials want. I'm a millenial. I'm an old millenial. But I'm a millenial. And there was an really interesting center study that came out. They said a few things. They said only 15 percent of the class of 2015 says that they would prefer to work for a large corporation. And 60 percent of 2015 grad said they would rather work for a company that has a positive social atmosphere, even if it means lower pay.

So when you talk about these young folks to wanting to be teachers, it's the atmosphere, it this sense of wanting a deep desire to give back so much so, and Andrew I'd like you to address this, they are willing to make less money.

YANG: Sure. I mean, as Secretary Duncan pointed out, we have ten times more applicants than we have spots for. And they are not going - working at this early stage companies in Detroit, Baltimore. There are all sorts of nonmonetary drivers that millenials are attracted to that can bring them to do all sorts of things that will benefit society like teaching or starting a business.

HARLOW: Where have you seen -- what is the ship that you've seen in the millenial work force as they've come in?

YANG: Well, you know, I think they come in with a set of priorities that they want to live through their work. One of our credos is you want a career that reflects your values, and I think that's very much a millennial sentiment. So they are looking for companies that were unable them to lead an integrated life where it's not able to compartmentalize and pretend to care about something during the day and then go home and try and forget about it.

HARLOW: I read this op-ed in "the Times" last week I believe that I love, journalist (INAUDIBLE) wrote a column about Detroit in Motown. And he talked about, secretary Duncan, private industries and what companies like Shinola (ph) are doing in Detroit coupled with you need to cooperative government, right? But how encouraged are you in some of these cities seeing some of these companies really do quite well rising out of them.

DUNCAN: I think these public private partnership, again your places, is quite an example. You have p-tech out of New York where companies are actually helping to shape the curriculum for high school students, giving them internships, giving them a guarantee job - not a guarantee that will put preference in terms of hiring. And for me, it is perfect combination of attitude - attitude and self-interest. These companies need the next generation employees. They need the next generation of workers and customers, but they also want to give back. And this idea of breaking down these silos, having these real public, private partnerships. High school, yes. But going into middle school, I've speak community college level where you have these pipelines, every companies win, the communities win, high school win, graduation rates go up, dropout rates go down, (INAUDIBLE) in school. So we have to teaching and feel to foster those kinds of partnership.

HARLOW: Let's talk about community colleges. I wonder if in this day and age and you need to be training people for? Do traditional four- year college of liberal arts majors really make sense for everyone? Or do you believe that community college is a vocational training is what we really have to focus on for a lot of people.

DUNCAN: I'm a proud sociology major. So, I'm always going to defend the liberal arts. But for me, there is always false argument in both end. We need more liberal arts graduates and we need more folks in the careers and real - IT, advance manufacturing, healthcare, green energy. Community colleges rethink our economic engines in many, many places. They are driving the comedy in the region. So we put billions of dollars to help strengthen these public private partnerships.

The president has a very full proposal to make community colleges free. But some form of education beyond high school. Four-year university, two-year community colleges, trade colleges, trade and technical vocation training, that has to be the goal.

HARLOW: There is a perspective -- there need to be a perception change so that when people are walk in and saying I went to this community college or I went to this vocational school, Katia, is as likely to hire them as if they've graduated from one of our alma maters?

BEAUCHAMP: Absolutely. I mean, absolutely.

DUNCAN: What is interesting is you actually, I know there is good or bad as reality, you actually have some graduates from four-year universities going back to community colleges to get the training they need to get a good paying job. And so, there does need to be a perception shift. And there is no pride (INAUDIBLE). We just need -- let people figure out what their passion is. What's their dream and figure out what is the best place to pursue that.

BEAUCHAMP: I mean, I think we could benefit in such a major way just by having a rebrand around what it means to have a prestigious education. And I, well, absolutely say there's always going to be space for a liberal arts four-year student. And the value in going into you're your environment where you learn how to learn is extremely important. But there are some students who are 15, 18, who actually have a lot of pride around what they want to do and why aren't we pushing them? Why isn't there just more social acceptance and encouragement and excitement for alternative? And it needs to be a conversation that we have and I do think are rebrand is a really great thing that we should think about together as a society. Why we are calling vocational school -I mean, those comes with stigmas? Let's just call it what it is, is that we're getting young, excited, high- energy people to learn how to do very productive things and add value day-one and we need them. We need them in all sorts of different industry.

YANG: We also need more times (ph) involving curing massive debt loads. I mean, we are up to 1.2 trillion in educational -

HARLOW: And that's just in public? That doesn't even include private?

YANG: Yes. And most of it is government subsidies. We are very much encouraging certain things. We need to encourage things that don't involve spending time in an environment that will cost tens of thousands of dollars. Just our partnerships tend to be much less expensive, I have to say. It is one of the reasons why that Venture for America model. And hopefully, we can implement that cost.

HARLOW: Who doesn't want a smart, eager person training with them?

DUNCAN: We're restricted by Congress and not funding to more traditional schools, four year, two year. But if you can learn to code and get a $55,000 job, that's a great investment for taxpayers. And right now, we can't do so we are trying to do some pilots and thinking very definitely about it. Again, it's all about creating an opportunity to climb economic ladder. There are new players that didn't exist. It need to evolve and put our resources behind those places that are helping people to take that next step.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Checking our top stories now, a man who unleashed the hail of bullets at Dallas police headquarters overnight and also threatened to blow up a van full of explosives is dead. This all broke out shortly after midnight. The gunman fired an assault rifle and a shotgun from outside riddling patrol cars and police headquarters with bullets. Police eventually killed the gunman after he threatened to detonate that van which had been packed with explosives. Earlier, I spoke with a Dallas judge who said she was threaten previously by this gunman.

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COOKS: All I know is when he had a court appearance or when we thought that he would be in court, the security was always heightened in the building. In my courtroom, I had extra security put in place. He was always a threat to us. So we just didn't know what he would do or when he would do it or, you know, what was going to happen.

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HARLOW: The suspected gunman spoke to police by phone before he was shot. And he stop negotiating with officers. That's what they are saying. They say that he was angry because they say he took his child away through a custody battle.

Right now, police as far away as Texas on the lookout for two convicted murderers who escaped from a New York prison eight days ago. Prison seamstress Joyce Mitchell was charged last night with giving the men tools to escape. Police are also investigating Mitchell's husband, who works at the prison as well.

And tonight, it is onto Iowa for presidential candidate Hillary Clinton this afternoon. She was in New York for the first major campaign event of the 2016 race for her telling the crowd, it is time. She says now is the moment for Americans to capitalize on the country's economic rebound. And she says she have a plan to make that happen.

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CLINTON: You bought our country back. Now it's time. Your time to secure the gains and move ahead. And you know what? America can't succeed unless you succeed. That is why I am running for president of United States.

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HARLOW: Hillary Clinton also took on Republicans saying the GOP would quote "trip over themselves prompting lower casts (ph) for the wealthy."

Coming up tonight on CNN next, "THE '70S QUIZ SHOW". Watch our anchors take on one another in '70s trivia. Who Wins? You have to watch to see. 8:00 p.m. eastern. The Original series, "THE SEVENTIES".

I'm Poppy Harlow.