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How Did Convicts Groom Female Worker?; Murdoch Passes Torch At Fox; "Hare" Raising Moment On The Slopes. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired June 12, 2015 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JAKE TAPPER, CNN: And that is truly undermining her candidacy in many ways given that so many more Americans today don't view her as honest and trustworthy than did a dew months ago. Take a listen.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

TAPPER: There are polls that show that fewer and fewer Americans think that your wife is honest and trustworthy and this has happened at the same time that these questions about the Foundation, questions about her e-mail and that must really bother you.

BILL CLINTON, FMR PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You know but I mean, we're used to it and the only thing I would say about this is, number one, I'm glad it's happening now because I trust the American people and I trust her with my life and have on more than one occasion. She was always, whenever I had trouble she was the rock in our family.

I was the youngest former governor in American history in 1980 on election night. I got killed in the Reagan landslide. People I had appointed to office would walk across the street. They are so afraid of the regime, not shake hands with me.

My career prospects were not particularly bright. She never blinked. She said, it will turn around. I believe in it, you have to. We built a life together based on, you know, the things we cared about and the things we love. We were blessed with a daughter who turned out pretty well, I would say.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST, "THE LEAD": We should say that as part of the agreement for the interview, we also agreed to talk about some of the topics that President Clinton was addressing at CGI America in Denver, which included topics we wanted to discuss anyway such as the economy and veterans issues.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: He is good at deflecting. You don't see it coming. He just swished right there from, you know, if the foundation is going to be any problem for her campaign to like his wonderful daughter and a great life they had. Did he address any of the sort of questionable donations that the foundation has taken?

TAPPER: Sure. That's of course just a quick excerpt. We have a longer interview with the former president. He talked about, I mean, specifically, I asked, you say there's no evidence anybody at the State Department including Secretary Clinton did anything in exchange for the big donations given by corporations, wealthy individuals, foreign companies, to the Clinton foundation. Can you really say that none of them were seeking anything in return?

He talked about that. He talked about specific donations, the donation from Algeria. He talked about the donation from Boeing. He talked about a controversial donation that the Clinton Foundation made to "The New York Times" neediest cases fund. So yes, we did go into detail. That was a little thing to wet your palette.

CAMEROTA: It worked

JOHN BERMAN, CNN GUEST ANCHOR: I can't wait until Sunday. I have known you for I think 16 or 17 years. I will say for 16 or 17 years, I have wanted there to be a Sunday show hosted by Jake Tapper. I'm thrilled for you and people who love politics. It's good for America. I want to leave you with one quick question. This trade vote is going to happen in a few hours. Up or down? Is President Obama going to get the fast track authority he wants?

TAPPER: The sources I just got off the phone with tell me, Democratic sources on Capitol Hill that they think there are not the votes it is going to either be pulled or go down. That is as of 7:32 this morning. Very informed Democrats telling me that they think it's not looking good at all. The bill will be pulled or it will go down.

BERMAN: That's a big deal. All right, Jake, thanks so much for that.

CAMEROTA: Bold reporting, bold predictions. That's what we look for from Jake Tapper. Jake, we'll be watching on Sunday. Congratulations.

TAPPER: Thanks so much, guys, appreciate it.

CAMEROTA: All right, be sure to tune in this Sunday, 9:00 a.m. Eastern for the debut of "STATE OF THE UNION" with Jake Tapper and his interview with former president, Bill Clinton.

BERMAN: All right, a week into the search for the two escaped prisoners. They are nowhere to be found. Now there are no fears that these convicted killers, they could grow desperate as they continue to hide from the law. We'll look at why.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:37:43]

ANA CABRERA, CNN GUEST ANCHOR: The search for two escaped convicts now centering on an area three miles from their prison in Dannamore, New York after police bloodhounds picked up a scent. This as word comes the prison employee who may have helped in the escape have been previously investigated for possible involvement with one of the inmates.

So was this pair working her over just to get her to help them bust out of prison? Let's bring in Dr. Michael Welner. He is one of America's top forensic psychiatrists and we'll discuss a little bit about the grooming process.

How they may have selected this woman, if, indeed, she is the person who helped them escape from prison as investigators have suggested, what do you think it is about her specifically or what makes a person more vulnerable to be targeted by inmates?

DR. MICHAEL WELNER, FORENSIC PSYCHIATRIST AND CHAIRMAN, THE FORENSIC PANEL: Corrections experience has taught me that the most important vulnerability is access. We need to appreciate the vulnerability of prison employees the way we do our children with pedophiles.

You don't say, well, this child is more vulnerable to a pedophile or that child, you recognize that the pedophile has an agenda with someone who is physically close that they can control.

So, what we saw in this prison was someone who had the motivation and the capability of, for all intents and purposes, being an emotional hacker. This is, to say someone is a psychopath without necessarily examining him is impossible, but to say that only psychopaths are capable of this ignores the realities of prison --

CABRERA: Because you really believe that he is -- he or they versus her are the ones we should be focusing on -- they are experts at what they do.

WELNER: It's about them or it's about him. It's about that someone who is motivated enough and capable enough of just sizing up anyone that they are close enough to that if you have access and enough time, you can pick up someone's weak spots and then exploit them and I think that that's what happened.

CABRERA: How would they go about trying to maybe groom her, for lack of a better word, into an accomplice?

WELNER: The same way a priest grooms a parishioner. The same way a college professor grooms an adult, student, who is capable of making independent decisions, working the humanity of the relationship. You can't work in a prison unless you experience your charges as human.

[07:40:09] And yet, at the same time, you have to maintain a distance. So it's about a boundary being eroded. But boundaries are never bashed down the way they broke out. Boundaries are eroded, drop by drop.

CABRERA: Is she a victim of sociopaths do you think?

WELNER: I think that she is a victim of proximity and it's one of the vulnerabilities of working in a prison. We had a case in New York, a case I worked on, Renell Wilson, who was on death row for killing two cops. When he was retried in his capitol murder trial, they found out that he manipulated a prison guard into having his baby so he could make the phony argument that he's going to be a dad and he shouldn't get the death penalty.

My point is it's not about her. It's about the motivation and the access the two people have together. The only caution that I think the audience should take away is, we all, all of us, see what we need to see in other people. There's something about her that saw what she needed to see in someone else.

When your own inner voice is something you switch off because you are seeing who you want to see like the crying game. You have to listen to other people around you and apparently in this situation people had alerted her and called attention to something about the relationship being inappropriate.

If you can't listen to your own inner voice, you have to listen to the people around you because they may be your next warning mechanism.

CABRERA: What do you think about people comparing what we are seeing here and Joyce Mitchell to other women who we have talked about in year's past falling in love with killers?

WELNER: Well, from professional experience, it's actually unbelievable that the amount of attention that's fashioned on or that's focused on notorious killers, even people who target women and even people who are seemingly unlikable individuals.

And I think that it has every bit to do with how news media make folks larger than life. They humanize them and then people react to them in such a way to say if only and they start getting fan mail and they start having people reach out to them.

Look, I had an instance with a Guantanamo terrorist where I am convinced that the national security correspondent who was covering the case for a major Canadian newspaper, she would marry him tomorrow if she could.

You know, so the quality of that manipulation with someone who is larger than life. I think it's a key element here to solve this crime. If you humanize these folks who are on the run and forget that these are folks someone chopped someone up, someone else killed someone who is serving the public then you feed into a cynical public. That's the only way to stay on the run.

If a cynical public helps them, you create Eric Rudolph. If you remember why they got there and that they are not only physically dangerous, but psychologically dangerous, you isolate people who run out of food and capture is inevitable. The public has to help law enforcement. This is a case where the entire community has to be involved in the capture so that we have public safety.

CABRERA: Let's better try to humanize these men. I mean, law men who faced Richard Matt have described what they refer to as psychopath charm, saying he cleans up well. He has lots of friends. He's been a master manipulator. Is that common among prisoners particularly these hard core criminals?

WELNER: What I have learned from interfacing with prisoners and examinees are the psychopaths that we see in the movies, who are larger than life characters. The folks that one really needs to be concerned about are people who are understated where you don't even feel like you are being manipulated.

A psychopath, for example, envision this, a psychopath is a person who can pitch down your back and convince you that it's raining. A good psychopath is a person who pitches down your back, convinces you that it's raining, you know it's not and you thank him for the experience.

CABRERA: They know how to manipulate your mind?

WELNER: That's the difference between someone who is unusually manipulative and the impact that they have on the people around him who may convince, this is whom I want to see, even though I know my eyes are lying.

CABRERA: Fascinating discussion, Dr. Michael Welner. Thank you so much for giving us that great insight this morning. We do appreciate it and hopefully it does help track down these killers.

We also want to mention that Dr. Welner is inviting people to participate in some landmark research about what makes a crime deprave. You can learn more about that at depravitystandard.org -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, Ana, Twitter is on the market for a new chief executive officer. Who could be next?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:48:49]

CAMEROTA: Time for CNN money now, chief business correspondent, Christine Romans in our Money Center, some major changes at Twitter?

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, at Twitter and also for Fox. Rupert Murdoch stepping down as CEO and positioning his sons to take over, James will be CEO and Lachlan will be chairman with his father so power sharing there, very big shoes to fill. Murdock has built an empire including the film studio, the broadcast network, and of course, Fox News.

Another big shake up, Alisyn, Twitter CEO, Dick Costolo, is out. Twitter has struggled to add new users and to generate more ad revenue. The chairman and co-founder, Jack Dorsey, will be the interim CEO. Investors are happy the stock jumped more than 5 percent before the opening bell.

The oil supply glut getting even bigger, the world is awash in oil, folks. Supply from OPEC countries the highest since 2012. That's pushing oil prices down. That could be great news for drivers. Gas prices have been rising, but experts say, this may be the highest gas prices all year. If you have all that kind of supply glut that is good for drivers because gas prices will eventually fall.

CABRERA: Because I thought gas prices and oil prices had been rising.

ROMANS: We look at the numbers showing how much energy we are producing, they are likely to go lower.

[07:50:06] CABRERA: Thanks, Christine.

ROMANS: You're a welcome.

CABRERA: Well, a hair raising moment on the slopes with a snowboarder accidentally triggering an avalanche, but wait until you see what gets caught up in the death defying match. CNN Jeanne Moos explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MOOS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Prepare to keep your eye on the bunny. What bunny? The one that got so frightened by a snowboarder that it hopped right into an avalanche. Technically, it's probably a hare, not a rabbit. But who is splitting hares when it's the kind of death defying situation bugs usually finds himself in.

The camera was following a snowboarder for a promotional movie being shot in Russia by an adventure tourism company called "Helipro." The snowboarder triggered the avalanche, but the bunny ended up riding the avalanche like rapids, submerging, and then resurfacing. Helipro put the video to music and the bunny's fight for survival went viral.

(on camera): While they were shooting, the movie makers were focused on the danger of the avalanche. They didn't fully appreciate what they captured until they looked back at the footage later.

(voice-over): And when they finally saw it, Producer Max Belokovski says they started rooting for the rabbit.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on. Come on. Stay up top. Continue run.

MOOS: The bunny perfectly illustrated advice humans get for surviving this, move to the side of the avalanche -- start swimming, try to stay afloat by kicking your feet and thrashing your arms in a swimming motion. The good news is that it made it managed to pull the rabbit out of the hat.

(on camera): Did you guys give him a nickname?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not yet, maybe super rabbit.

MOOS: Can you pick the bunny out of the slope? It was a mad dash that put the hare in hair-raising. Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: I couldn't believe there wasn't a snow bunny joke in there somewhere.

CAMEROTA: It cried out for one.

BERMAN: It did.

CAMEROTA: I couldn't believe how camouflaged that bunny was. How could they even see it?

CABRERA: I want to know outcome. I hope he's OK.

BERMAN: Should have worn a bright colored jacket next time.

All right, it is day seven in the manhunt now for two escaped killers in New York. Bloodhounds are hot on their trail. We are live from the search zone next. We're going to speak to CNN's own John Walsh about this manhunt.

CAMEROTA: And a programming note, on this Sunday's "PARTS UNKNOWN," Anthony Bourdain explores Hawaii, Sunday night, 9:00 Eastern. Let's take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTHONY BOURDAIN, CNN HOST, "PARTS UNKNOWN": So Hawaii. I'm conflicted about what I should tell you about Hawaii, because really of almost all the places that I've been this surprisingly is the least screwed up.

So I'm not sure what I should tell you about this amazing, multi-flavored -- I'm pretty sure Jesus does not want me to eat this, awesome mash-up of cool stuff. We haven't even talked about spam. I think what I should tell you is this -- Hawaii, it's awesome. Don't come here. See you later. Bye.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:58:12]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Five hundred searchers now, they have been sifting through some 600 leads that they're tracking down.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tracking dogs picked up the scent of the two fugitives.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Joyce Mitchell, she had already been under investigation for a relationship with one of them?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She befriended the inmates and may have had some sort of role in assisting them.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Cleveland judge ruling there is probable cause for charges.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the death of 12-year-old Tamir Rice.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The ruling that came down is non-binding. There is no arrest warrant out for these two officers.

BERMAN: Hillary Clinton will hold her first major rally. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She's been re-introducing herself to the American people for 25 years now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We haven't heard her actually take the risk of intimacy to talk about things that are really personal.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: Good morning, everyone. Welcome back to your NEW DAY. It is Friday, June 12th, 8:00 in the east. Chris and Michaela are off this morning. John Berman and Ana Cabrera are joining us. Good to have you back. Happy Friday.

All right, let's talk about the top story because the search for two escaped convicts is intensifying this morning in upstate New York. Police dogs picking up a strong scent just three miles from the prison where Richard Matt and David Sweat made their get-away.

BERMAN: Police also finding shoe imprints, food wrappers and other signs that the pair may have been in that area. And new information is emerging about the prison employee at the center of this escape investigation.

Our coverage begins this morning with CNN's Jason Carroll live in West Plattsburgh, New York with an update on the manhunt. Jason, what are you learning?

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you. Searchers doing everything they can to try to find these men. For now that section of Route 374 that we talked so much about yesterday, still partially shut down again today, open to residents only while they continue the search.

Also the Seranac Central School District canceled classes again today for the second day as this search continues. A few new details emerging specifically about the trail that these two may have been on, apparently bloodhounds picked up a scent at a gas station located just about a mile or so away.