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Search for Escaped Killers; Briefing Room Cleared. Aired 2- 2:30p ET

Aired June 9, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[14:00:06] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Here we go. We continue with the breaking news here. I'm Brooke Baldwin. You're watching CNN.

Getting breaking news in the hunt for these two ruthless killers. Here's what we know right now and I want you to look at this map because this is key, these different towns. Police are swarming a town in upstate New York. This is about 30 miles south of the Clinton Correctional Facility. That is the prison where those two men escaped from using power drills some time on Friday night.

This active search is happening right now, apparently triggered by a sighting of these two suspicious men in the town of Willsboro, New York. Originally there had been talk that maybe Richard Matt and David Sweat had a car waiting for them, but this would be the second on-foot sighting in this area since this brazen escape.

Here's what we're learning. A couple spotting two men in the backyard of their Dannemora home just hours after the inmates emerged from a manhole.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They were looking around a little bit. As soon as I came across, they ran out of my yard.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That was them?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That was them, yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: I want to go straight to Polo Sandoval, who is live near that correctional facility in Dannemora, New York.

But, Polo, we've got to talk about 30 miles, you know, south of where you are to this sighting in Willsboro, New York, and the search happening there. I understand they've got helicopters up in the air. Talk to me about the search underway right now.

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Brooke. There are dozens of officers right now in the air, on the ground, many of them actually left the facility here just a few moments ago. Many of them, they continue to come and go. They're following up on some of these reports of two suspicious individuals walking down a lonely road in the middle of the night in the rain, Brooke. So clearly that setting off a red flag as this individual was -- began to drive towards these two people. Well, they then bolted away, ran into a field. So that, obviously, is a concern. That person then called in -- called it into authorities and so a clearly an indication that authorities are following up on every single lead.

You mentioned that other couple here at Dannemora, New York, yesterday also potentially reporting another sighting. So, again, what we're seeing now is officials following up on so many leads right now, Brooke. At least 300 different leads. These perhaps are some of the strongest, again, happening about 30 miles south of here in Willsboro, New York.

Officers looking through fields, farms, wooded areas. And that really has been a concern for authorities and that's the terrain. Also the weather. Right now actually the sun finally beginning to come out, but we had very heavy foggy conditions earlier today, had some rain. So it's become a problem for authorities that have been scouring some of the woods and, of course, some of the towns here in upstate New York because at this point, Brooke, authorities saying every single tip that gets called in, every single call is going to be taken seriously.

BALDWIN: You know, it's interesting, Polo, because I've been -- I've read so much on this. Obviously you're there and digging on it. But when you talk to experts, sort of the initial thought was no way would these two guys be trying to hide out in the woods and survive because that's just not their -- their expertise. It's a lot, you know, more difficult than one might think. But here they are. It sounds like the terrain in which they could be finding themselves, we're talking farmland, we're talking heavy fog, challenging.

SANDOVAL: That's right. I mean, keep in mind, this is day four already, Brooke. So, so many experts have weighed in and their theories lead many people to believe that they could be potentially in Canada or even down in Mexico. We know at least one of these individuals, Richard Matt, did have ties to Mexico after he fled there when he escaped while he was serving time for another separate case.

So there are so many theories floating around here, but really the reality is that authorities have no idea where they are. And that's why they're encouraging the public to call it in. Any bit of suspicion, they want people to pick up the phone. And that's why the state of New York took that very unusual step in offering a $100,000 reward to anyone who could provide information that leads to this -- to the arrest of these two individuals, or at least $50,000 per fugitive.

BALDWIN: That's right. Polo Sandoval, thank you so much. We're going to stay in close contact with you. Obviously we've sent a crew to Willsboro, New York, to try to get our eyes on what's happening there.

But in the meantime, let me bring in Shawn Gay. Shawn Gay is on the phone with me. Shawn lives in Willsboro and can talk us through what you are seeing, Shawn. What is it like right now? SHAWN GAY, WILLSBORO RESIDENT (via telephone): On (INAUDIBLE) Road

it's very intense as of right now. There's cops and corrections officers side by side.

BALDWIN: Tell me what do you mean by intense?

GAY: And some of them had their weapons drawn. Just starting another search in the same section that they've been there since quarter of 12:00 last night.

[14:05:03] BALDWIN: Right. So this happened -- this apparent potential spotting of these two fugitives happened in the wee hours of the morning. When did you first hear that this was all happening in your town?

GAY: It was -- we first heard of it last night when my brother-in-law called my parents' house saying that the cops were there. And at the same time there were -- helicopters were beginning to fly overhead.

BALDWIN: And as I'm looking at, you know, huge police presence, canines, et cetera, all looking for these two -- these two felons, what is Willsboro like? Because the pictures I'm seeing, beautiful, pastoral, this is the last place, you know, you would expect this to be happening.

GAY: As of the area that they're at now is all shrouded by fields and farms. And if they -- and if -- and as you go further south, there's more fields and open areas.

BALDWIN: Are you -- how familiar are you with this particular area? I mean, if you were to imagine -- have you walked through it? Just the idea that, you know, people without sort of wilderness background could survive. Again, this is day four. Is it -- you know, are there rivers? Is it heavily wooded? Can you describe it for me?

GAY: Some of the areas are really thick and congested. But it -- the further south you go, you will come into more open fields and more farmland.

BALDWIN: What is the sense --

GAY: I mean in the area now --

BALDWIN: Oh, forgive me. Go ahead.

GAY: It's mostly -- it's mostly thick. But as they -- as you, you know, you continue to go south, you'll come up to more fields.

BALDWIN: Are there train stations in the area, anything like that?

GAY: What's that?

BALDWIN: Are there train stations in the area or anything like that?

GAY: Yes. Just north there is a train station. And that's where they're searching now is along the tracks going south. BALDWIN: Interesting. What is the sense in Willsboro? Are people

panicking? Is it fairly calm despite all this police presence? Describe that for me.

GAY: Yes, I believe that -- I believe it's fairly calm on the roadways. Everybody has their worries but, you know, you're going to have that when you get a cop presence like it is now.

BALDWIN: Shawn Gay, thank you so much for hopping on the phone with me, Willsboro, New York, as the search is on for these two men.

Let me talk about this manhunt with a man who's been involved in a lot of these searches, retired U.S. Marshal Arthur Roderick.

You have hunted down the FBI's most wanted. You even investigated the Alcatraz prison escapes. So, Arthur, I mean, when you're hearing all of this about a potential spotting, you know, in a farmland, wooded area, these two felons, helicopters up in the air, massive police presence on the ground, what's your first thought?

ARTHUR RODERICK, RETIRED U.S. MARSHAL: These leads sound absolutely fantastic. And I like them because of the distance where they are right now from the facility. I mean we're talking 30, 35 miles. So that distance over the time frame that they've been out sort of leads me to believe that maybe they're planning was mainly done for the escape and they didn't plan too well for once they got out of the facility.

If they had done some prior planning regarding what they do once they get out of the facility, then they could have been hundreds of miles away by now. And that's going to, obviously, bear out. I think they'll have some good follow up here with canines, with officers as we see them going into the woods there.

When I first heard about this escape, it is eerily similar to the Alcatraz escape over the --

BALDWIN: How do you mean?

RODERICK: Well, the use of power tools, a maximum security facility, an older facility, sort of a follow up in the days after, high press, a lot of officers, Coast Guard around trying to locate where they had gone to. So these types of cases actually break down into two different phases. And the first phase obviously being is to get them back into custody. So whatever it takes to get them back into custody, the law enforcement officials are going to do out there, especially with these two. These are -- these are really, really bad guys and they --

BALDWIN: Yes, they are. One of them apparently chopped up his boss and put pieces of the body in the river and the head in a dumpster. I mean this is the kind of criminal we're talking about.

But let me follow up on something you said, because it is possible that they had somebody who would be helping them in a getaway car on the outside and perhaps that person bailed. But I was talking to a U.S. marshal yesterday and he said to me, Brooke, nine times out of 10, when you have two inmate escapees, they split up. And the fact that we've hearing that two men, two different times have been spotted, could means they've stuck together. Does that surprise you?

[14:10:04] RODERICK: It does to a certain degree, but if you recall the Texas Seven, they all stayed together and they were together for an extended period of time. So it's not unusual that they wouldn't stay together. I mean, they've got to rely on one another. Especially in this particular situation, if they're out in the woods and they're trying to survive with whatever they have got. If this turns out to be them, then I would say a great job by law enforcement being able to contain this area that quickly and track down all the leads.

Now, you've got two phases of this investigation. You've got the manhunt phase, the investigative phase on trying to bring them back into custody, which is obviously the priority. But the second phase being, OK, how did they get out? And the New York State Police is actually looking at that pretty heavily right now and the U.S. marshal have a very active regional fugitive task force in the New York/New Jersey area and that actually has partnered with the state police, with the department of corrections, several state and local and other federal officers. And if combined, all those organizations together to put out this type of manpower to go ahead and try to get -- I mean when you look at this -- this -- what's going on in town here, it kind of reminds me of the --

BALDWIN: It's huge.

RODERICK: Of the Boston bombing when they, you know, basically shut down the city of Boston.

BALDWIN: A little bit bigger city, but I think I see what you're saying.

RODERICK: Yes. Yes.

BALDWIN: I'm sure this town feels like its shut down for this manhunt frozen in time.

RODERICK: Right.

BALDWIN: Art Roderick, do me a favor, retired U.S. air marshal, I want a -- I want you to stay with me. I want to hold you over the break.

RODERICK: Sure.

BALDWIN: When we come back -- because I have more questions for you. Full of questions today.

Also, you're about to hear from one of the prison's most infamous inmates, the Club Kid Killer. He talks about female guards or even female civilian workers there and says there is a good reason why other inmates may not have heard the escape. You're watching CNN. Stay right here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [14:16:07] BALDWIN: All right, more breaking news before we get back to this manhunt in upstate New York. I wanted to show you live pictures. This is where you normally see a room full of cameras, full of reporters and instead you're seeing law enforcement and a canine. The reason being, we have just learned that the White House Briefing Room has been cleared. Obviously they're going row by row by row sniffing around. We haven't been told the reason it's been cleared. Here's another vantage point for you. But keep in mind, this is happening just a couple of hours after a TSA

hearing just down the street on Capitol Hill was cleared apparently over a suspicious package. They've been given the all clear back on Capitol Hill. But you can see a sight not often seen when we're watching TV and news is being made, an entirely empty White House Briefing Room. We're working on getting our White House correspondent up on that. Obviously she's working her sources and we'll try to get to the bottom of why this is happening.

But let's pivot back to our other breaking story. An active search right now underway in a New York town, just about 30 miles from where those two killers escaped from the Clinton Correctional Facility just four days ago. This prison has played host to some high-profile, even notorious criminals. Rapper Tupac Shakur for first-degree sex abuse, mobster Lucky Luciano for extortion, the so-called preppie murder, Robert Chambers, and another one is Michael Alig, the infamous Club Kid. He was a New York City nightlife legend who served part of a 17- year manslaughter sentence at Clinton. He was released last year. Talked to CNN today about the anatomy of a potential escape from a place like Clinton.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL ALIG, FORMER INMATE, CLINTON CORRECTIONAL FACILITY: There's no way in our out of a prison that doesn't involve a guard in some way. There's nothing -- there's only in -- you know, there's only inmates. So somebody was involved in getting that -- that tool to them. Every facility I was at, at one point had a scandal of some kind that either was kept hush-hush or when it became known became some big deal in the local newspaper and it was always in the tailor shop or in commissary (ph) or in something -- some part of the facility that involved civilians, non-officers.

You know, if you're a civilian and you're working at the commissary and you're some, you know, 45-year-old woman from upstate new York and in this small town where all the officers know you and -- and then, yes, the rules -- every -- you know, every once in a while would get -- they'd become complacent. They allowed this kind of thing to go on. They -- it's just so normal that you never even think about it. You never imagine that something like this could happen. But -- and yet it does. I mean, like I said, every facility I've been at has had problems with the inmates usually having relationships with the female -- with female non-officer workers.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR, "AT THIS HOUR": Does it surprise you at all that no one spoke up?

ALIG: It does, actually. BOLDUAN: Really?

ALIG: If they were in honor -- yes, if they were in honor dorm, usually honor dorm is filled with snitches. So --

JOHN BERMAN, ANCHOR, CNN'S "AT THIS HOUR": Snitches?

ALIG: Yes. And that's how they got there. So you'd think somebody would have told. And I think that if enough people knew, that somebody would have told. So --

BOLDUAN: Then what do you think happened? How do you think this --

ALIG: I think they were -- I think they were very good at what they did. I mean they obviously knew how to keep a secret and, you know, only let -- if they let anybody in, they were -- it was somebody that --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: All right, want to pull away from that and go straight to the White House, to our correspondent, Michelle Kosinski, who is on the phone because, Michelle Kosinski, we were showing the pictures of the briefing room, here they are live pictures, law enforcement, canine in there, back and forth down the rows. I understand they're clearing the North Lawn, which is normally the camera position for you. What's going on?

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSECORRESPONDENT: Right. Well, that's what we're trying to find out. I mean this just happened a few minutes ago, but it seemed very similar to what happened in that hearing today in the Senate office building when the Capitol Police were there while the hearing was going on and said everybody had to leave. Not long after that threat, whatever it was, was cleared. I think it was a suspicious package. (INAUDIBLE). So while this (INAUDIBLE) was going on, officers came in (INAUDIBLE) waiting room. Everybody has to (INAUDIBLE). First we went to (INAUDIBLE) -- to the (INAUDIBLE) White House and then they moved (INAUDIBLE) -- this building. (INAUDIBLE) --

[14:20:33] BALDWIN: I apologize. Not the best cell signal, apparently, right around the White House where Michelle is trying to talk to us. And clearly the point being, as she was making, they're trying to figure out the reason why they have cleared out the briefing room and why they have cleared out the North Lawn. These are live pictures outside the White House obviously on the left side of your screen and on the right side of your screen the White House Briefing Room.

Art -- Art Roderick, let me bring you back in, retired U.S. air marshal, who we were talking about the manhunt, you know, for these two escaped convicts. But if I may, just ask you some questions about what's happening at the White House, just delving into your expertise. You know, we're seeing this police officer with the canine going row by row by row in the daily briefing. All of this happening in the wake of just a couple of hours ago there was a hearing on Capitol Hill that was cleared because of a suspicious package. Walk me through what -- what's happening here. RODERICK: Well, I mean, that generally happens. I mean, you get one

call at a facility and you get another one at a different facility. So that's not that unusual. I will tell you that these canines are unbelievable in what they can pick up and they do a phenomenal job and the dog handlers are very well-trained and I'm sure they'll have it cleared in no time. I believe the hearing room is already cleared --

BALDWIN: It is.

RODERICK: And they've started to go back in there. So this is not unusual that they get multiple calls at different facilities around D.C.

BALDWIN: But here's what strikes me as unusual because I was a crime reporter in D.C. for a number of years and we'd hear calls all the time of suspicious packages, reports of suspicious packages all around the different federal buildings and this, to me, does seem different.

RODERICK: It's different because these are both very secure facilities. So for somebody to get something in would be very, very, very difficult. I know we've heard recently about TSA and some of the issues they've had, but, obviously, the White House or the Capitol are very well protected, very qualified Capitol Police and Secret Service uniform police that staff both those facilities. So it is unusual from that perspective.

BALDWIN: Would it be precaution to, you know, sweep the bigger, maybe more public areas of the White House just because of what happened on Capitol Hill, or would there need to be a specific call about a report regarding the White House?

RODERICK: I would say there probably would have to be a specific call. Either maybe the call was -- was -- when it was placed into the Capitol mentioned the White House. You know, obviously, we don't know that. But for them to just get a call at the Capitol and then go right to the White House is -- is -- it doesn't match up that well in being -- you would think they would be doing the Supreme Court and several other obviously highly important buildings in Washington, D.C.

BALDWIN: And what exactly are they looking for, do you think?

RODERICK: They're looking for anything -- any suspicious package. Anything the dog is going to alert on, obviously, is what they're looking for. And they have to take each one of these seriously. I mean there's no -- well, let's just brush it off. I mean they have to follow up every single one.

BALDWIN: Oh, and there goes the picture. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm just -- forgive me, I'm just speaking aloud as I'm seeing someone -- it looks like somebody's trying to toss a t-shirt over the camera, but apparently there are other cameras in the White House Briefing Room, from which we are getting these live pictures. We'll see how much longer we have them.

Why would they be doing that, Art? RODERICK: I'm not sure. That's kind of unusual. I'm not exactly sure

why they're covering that particular camera. But as you can see, we still have a view from the back forward.

BALDWIN: All right. I feel like I interrupted you earlier. Forgive me. You were in the middle of something.

RODERICK: No, I was just -- what I was saying is, they have to take every single one of these as a valid -- as a valid lead and they have to investigate it to the bitter end. So you're going to see them doing everything that they're doing, you know, the standard procedures when it comes to a bomb threat evacuation, get the public out to a safe place and then do the sweeps. So that happens every single time they get one of these.

BALDWIN: OK. Again, if you're just now joining us, we're staring at live pictures inside the White House Briefing Room as it has been cleared. Seeing a couple of other faces in here, though it looks like there hasn't ben the all-clear.

Again, we're talking about this because, a, it's significant because this is the White House and, you know, not often do you have to clear out an entire room in the White House like this. They've also cleared out the North Lawn of the White House, where typically that's where you see the reporters lining up doing their live shots.

[14:25:07] And all of this happening -- oh, let's take a look. This is moments ago. So this is the moment that all of the writers, correspondents, photojournalists were leaving the Briefing Room. So, obviously, no panic. All of them just getting up, going out the doors because of this mandate to get out.

Again, the reason for the mandate, we don't know. We've been trying to talk to our White House correspondent, not the best cell signal, a second ago, trying to understand why. Listen, they may not know why yet.

Let's try again. Michelle Kosinski, you with me? Do we have her? Let me try one more time. Michelle Kosinski, it's Brooke. Can you hear me? No dice.

OK, so we're trying to talk to Michelle Kosinski, who is our White House correspondent. Again, these are the pictures. I'm talking to the control room. How recent was this, guys, when everyone was cleared out? Within the last couple of minutes?

OK. I don't know how long ago it was that they were all cleared out, but I'm going to go by, on the screen moments ago, so recently.

I still have Art Roderick with me, retired U.S. air marshal, who is talking us through and, again, the pictures. I don't -- these are pictures from moments ago where you see this police officer and his canine going back and forth, back and forth. Again, this could be -- there were reports a couple of hours ago at a TSA briefing on Capitol Hill in which there was a report of a suspicious package. And, Art, you know, for those who are just joining us, sort of reiterate what this officer is looking for.

RODERICK: He's looking for any package that looks suspicious at all or any item that the dog could alert to. Those dogs have very obviously sensitive sense of smell and they will pick up on the smallest bit of either gunpowder or explosive. And, obviously, you see them walking up and down the aisle there. And they're checking everything. Could be something under a seat.

But, again, that's such a secure area that I think they're just taking the extra precaution of obviously sweeping the room with a canine and then they'll give the all clear and then everybody will come back in.

BALDWIN: OK. I am being told they had to clear the room at 2:08 p.m., so about 20 minutes ago. I've got our justice correspondent Pamela Brown, who is joining me here as well.

Pamela Brown, do we know why -- why this has happened?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: We still don't know why, Brooke. It's still a very fluid situation.

What we can tell you, though, at this point is that a bomb-sniffing dog was brought in to the Briefing Room. They have been searching that room. It has been cleared, the Briefing Room, as well as the North Lawn. So we know that all the reporters that were in the Briefing Room were evacuated out of there and outside of the North Lawn.

Interesting to note here, this is highly unusual. The robotic cameras inside the Briefing Room from the various networks, they have been blocked so that we can't see what's going on inside there, as well as some of the cameras on the North Lawn have been tilted down as well. I'm told that's highly unusual. Our reporters who were evacuated outside report that extra security has been brought in to the White House.

Now, there's still a lot of unanswered questions as to why this is happening. We know earlier today there was a bomb threat called in to the U.S. Capitol building, interrupted a TSA hearing. We don't know at this point, Brooke, whether that is connected to what is happening inside the White House Briefing Room and the North Lawn. But we know, as we reported, that the Secret Service has cleared the Briefing Room, as well as the North Lawn and additional security has been brought in.

Brooke.

BALDWIN: Let's just play -- because we haven't seen this yet. This is the moment you're seeing all these correspondents and writers getting out of their seats and being told to leave. But let me just play you the moment in which we see the White House spokesperson mid-briefing, Josh Earnest, has to tell everyone they have to get out. Here he was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need to evacuate the House Briefing Room.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, Jesus. JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We'll come back.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) evacuate the House Briefing Room.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where do we go? Do we shelter in place or where do we go?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Next time (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do (INAUDIBLE) have any information on the (INAUDIBLE) taking place at the moment.

(CROSS TALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) your list (ph), Josh, (INAUDIBLE) we'll read about it (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. We'll be back.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And the press secretary leave us. No, no, no, you have to go down with the ship too. Come on.

[14:30:10] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).

(END VIDEO CLIP)