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DR. DREW

Caught On Tape: Teen Slammed to Ground by Police Officer; Victimized Sisters Come to Josh Duggar`s Defense; Jennifer Lopez Facing a Lawsuit Because She is Too Sexy; Extra Credit Offered to Students Who Take A Picture With Their Parents` Sex Toys; Homeowner Finds 17-Year-Old Kid Masturbating on the Porch. Aired 9-10p ET

Aired June 8, 2015 - 21:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[21:00:12] DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Tonight, caught on tape, a bikini- clad teen`s body slammed by a police. Did racism play a role? We will get into it. Or was this takedown in some way justified?

And, we have got more fallout from the Josh Duggar sex scandal as the sisters he victimized, they are the ones to come to his defense. And, it

all starts right now at the "Top of the Feed."

Police in McKinney, Texas respond to reports of unruly teens at a community pool. The ensuing chaos is caught on tape. Take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE OFFICER: Stay on the ground!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE BYSTANDER: Hold up sir! --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE OFFICER: I told you, stay! Get your (EXPLETIVE WORD) down on the ground. On the grass!

(SCREAMING)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Call m mama. Call my mama.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE OFFICER: Get on the ground!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Call my mama. Call my mama.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE OFFICER: On your face.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE BYSTANDER: Excuse me sir. I do not believe you have to do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: I almost cannot watch it. That officer there has been placed now on leave. Joining us, Loni Coombs, former prosecutor, author of "You`re

Perfect and Other Lies Parents Tell;" Vanessa Barnett, Hiphollywood.com and Karamo Brown, social worker.

We also have -- I got Spirit, psychotherapist. She will be staying with us throughout the hour in the audience. Hey, Spirit. So, I want to show you

what happened just before the police arrived. I have not seen this part yet, but let us see if we can somehow make sense of that tape.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(TWO WOMEN SCREAMING AND FIGHTING)

PINSKY: So, Vanessa, I guess it was that fight that triggered the police. But they look like keystone cops running around there. They were out of

control and wielding their guns. It was crazy.

VANESSA BARNETT, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: It looked unreal.

PINSKY: Yes.

BARNETT: He did not look like he knew what he was supposed to be doing. He did not look like a police officer. He looked like one of the kids just

running around crazy. I do not understand how that can happen to a 15- year-old girl. It is disgusting.

PINSKY: What did you feel when you saw that?

BARNETT: I was instantly enraged because I see and I hear people trying to defend this action say, "Oh, well, she was out of line," or "She must have

said something" or "She must have done something to deserve that." We on this show have talked about spanking.

PINSKY: Yes.

BARNETT: You cannot even spank your child nowadays, but you want to tell me a police officer can grab a girl by the hair and fling her around and

throw her on the ground and shove her face into the grass? It is disgusting.

PINSKY: And, Karamo, I see you -- It is upsetting, right? You are very upset with this.

KARAMO BROWN, SOCIAL WORKER: I am pissed about this.

PINSKY: Yes.

BROWN: This is like breaking my heart as I am watching this. Because as a father, I cannot imagine my kid being in the middle of this. I do not care

what fight was ensuing beforehand, but when the police arrived, they should have calmed everyone down and made this situation a lot better than what

they did. They escalated it.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

PINSKY: They made it worst.

BROWN: This went too far.

PINSKY: On the phone, I got a law enforcement expert, Sheriff Richard Jones. Sheriff, we are trying to make sense of this. The girl does seem

to resist commands, but the action we all are reacting to is so emotionally, is that in your mind justified?

SHERIFF RICHARD JONES, BUTLER COUNTY, OHIO: No. The police officer -- he had stripes on his sleeve. He looked like he was a sergeant, been around a

long time. Pulled his weapon, but the two males come up on top of him. We are all looking at it and second-guessing it. My thought is he should not

have pulled his weapon out, but it escalated.

And, what I am afraid of, Dr. Drew, is that there are kids, adults, they are not listening to lawful orders from the police. It is being encouraged

and it is getting out of control. Police have really been beat down for quite some time.

BARNETT: No.

SHERIFF JONES: But, my opinion is the gun should not have been pulled out. If he had shot one of those kids -- and you are a heartbeat away from

pulling that trigger. It does not matter if they are white or they are black. You got there. You can tell those are kids.

But those two males come up and they square off on him when he is on the ground. But my belief is he should not have pulled that weapon out. It

was out of control, a lot of screaming. But when you look at it, you can see to where the other two officers come up, then his gun goes down to his

side.

But there seems to be more order when the other two police officers come up and they get things a little bit under control, but the whole thing is out

of control. The party, the screaming, the shouting.

[21:05:00] PINSKY: Yes. Everything and so -- thank you, sheriff. My question, you know, the officers are having a tough time. Look at

Baltimore, they are backing off, crime is up. So, I think, you know, police are in tough situation, but why not ask for more help? Why not have

a systematic approaching?

LONI COOMBS, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Well, they did. They did. They end up bringing more backup. And, that was the good thing. But, look --

PINSKY: Yes, but why not more backup, if the thing was out of control. Is it really worth it to them?

COOMBS: Well, apparently, they were able to get it under control when there were 12 units there on scene, but it was chaotic. As Karamo said,

what the police officers did when they first got in the scene, it became more chaotic. But, listen, you are talking about even if there was a

physical fight, you are talking about teenagers in bathing suits.

BROWN: Exactly.

PINSKY: Yes.

COOMBS: You can see -- they do not have weapons.

PINSKY: Yes.

BARNETT: Right.

COOMBS: They are not physically fighting with the cops.

PINSKY: Yes.

COOBS: They are just talking.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

PINSKY: I am going to say it, too. I do not know if you guys are thinking this, but these are well-dressed kids, for the most part. They are, like,

in designer bathing suits and stuff. And, yet the cops are running after the African-American kids. It is bizarre.

BARNETT: And, only the African-American kids.

PINSKY: It is bizarre.

BARNETT: And, if you noticed the guy with the camera, he is a young white male. And, he was very close to the cops. He was there the whole time.

Not once do you hear the officer scream at him, calling him all kind of curse words, telling him to get away. Never once did that happen.

PINSKY: All right, I want to bring Lauren Lake in here. Lauren is an attorney, presiding judge in Paternity Court. And, Lauren, listen, I am

pro police. God knows when -- you know -- It is like you attorneys, Loni, I am putting you in this, too.

COOMBS: Excuse me.

(LAUGHING)

PINSKY: I do not like you guys unless I need one, then I really like you guys. And, it is the same is true of law enforcement. But, what do we do

with this, Lauren? What do you make of this?

LAUREN LAKE, PRESIDING JUDGE IN "PATERNITY COURT": That was about the first laugh I had in the last five hours, Dr. Drew, because I have been

playing the video over and over again. And, let me tell you, the first time I played it, I sat in my car and I just cried. I teared up, because

it has come to this.

What I see happening there is an officer that is completely out of control. It is instigating a situation, behaving in a way, as we just said, none of

the other officers seem to be behaving that way.

PINSKY: And, Lauren, let me be honest here. If somebody had reported this behavior, this whole scene to me, I would have said, "Oh, they are

overstating it. Come on!" But, now that everybody got a camera in their hands, we are looking at what happens.

LAKE: And, good thing they do. Because if this young man did not have the courage to film this happening, we would probably, as you said, be able to

discount this story and say, well, maybe it did not happen, or maybe -- no, this woman, this young woman, is getting manhandled in a bikini in front of

everyone, and people, her peers, are coming to her defense. They are fearful for her.

PINSKY: Yes.

LAKE: And, I think this is the point we are missing as well. --

PINSKY: And, by the way -

LAKE: -- People are now beginning to fear the police.

PINSKY: Well, that is not to anybody`s benefit. Right, everybody? Right? Everybody agree with this, we should not have to feel that way? And, I

will tell you what I have saw -- I have seen this girl interviewed. Actually, a lovely young girl. She is not a criminal. She did not deserve

it. Why do we treat people that do not deserve to be -- let us leave that for the criminals.

BROWN: Well, what got me was all those other parents that were standing around, and not one of them thought, "Well, if this police really feels

that this is valid, let me get the rest of these kids away and protect them, so that he can focus on this." I mean this --

PINSKY: There was no "This," that is the problem.

BROWN: No. Of course not.

PINSKY: If you were standing and watching, you would have been like, "What is happening here?"

BROWN: Of course. But, yes, at some point you have to click as an adult and say, this is wrong. Let me help the other children before this guy

gets --

PINSKY: It is hard. It would be hard. I cannot make sense of it watching it three times over. Now, I have two eyewitnesses next that are defending

the officer`s actions. I want to understand that. We will hear from them and be right back.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[21:12:44] JAHI ADISA BAKARI, FATHER OF A 13-YEAR-OLD GIRL ALSO STRUCK BY OFFICER ERIC CASEBOLT: I do not like grown men touching my girls, my

daughters.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(OFFICER SLAMMING BIKINI-CLAD TEENAGER ON THE GROUND)

(SCREAMING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED WHITE FEMALE RESIDENT: I think he deserves a medal for what he did. I really do. I do not believe he was out of line one bit. Those

kids were taunting them and cursing them out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BAKARI: This guy was just out of control. He should be drug tested then fired.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: It is unbelievable how two people looking at the same event can see it so differently. And, of course, the officer caught on tape. They

are body slamming that teen girl, drawing his gun. He has been placed on paid leave. I am back with Loni, Vanessa, Karomo. So, they were feeling

threatened, I guess. But --

(LAUGHING)

BARNETT: Why? Why? Let us ask, why? Why are you threatened by young teens at a pool having fun? Like that is the real question? --

PINSKY: Well, they were in bathing suits.

BARNETT: What are they doing to you?

COOMBS: I think it was more they are failing the attitude test, perhaps. I mean there was no physical violence or threats. They were mouthing off

to him. And, officers need to figure out a better way to respond to verbal abuse than physical violence.

BROWN: Yes. Seriously.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

BARNETT: It is ego. They need to check their ego. And, you notice a big difference in those two people? One was on camera. The lady who was

defending them could not even show her face, and that is horrible.

PINSKY: And, you guys should know, though, on our Twitter feed, people are defending the police. They are telling us that we are being a little too

tough. We should give them a break. We are going to put one up right now. Let us see. "Basically, the guy was alone surrounded by a bunch of people.

He was trying to be on guard." -- Yes, no kidding.

BARNETT: But there were cops on the video.

BROWN: But there was other cops around. He was not alone. Give me a break.

PINSKY: "Get the full story before you take a side." "Videos are hard to, you know, give the cop a break." "He was only going after the kids that

were giving him lip."

BROWN: I guarantee that none of these people who are sending these tweets have children, because if any of them would have saw their child in a

bathing suit on the ground with an armed police officer, they would not feel that way.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

PINSKY: Let me get some input from our audience. Go ahead. What do you got there?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: So -- I will preface it real quick. I am not going to say there is not police brutality in this. I am not going to say

there is not racial discrimination.

As a former military member going through training, thinking about the average citizen in the United States of Ameri ca or the world, how many

people go to their job on a daily basis and have to make a split-second decision to use force, possibly use a gun, use a taser --

PINSKY: Yes.

[21:15:00] UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: -- To maybe have force used against you. And, I feel like when we think about that in an everyday

aspect, the average person does not really know how to react.

PINSKY: Look, I cannot even imagine that job. And, by the way, thank you for your service.

(AUDIENCE APLAUDING)

BARNETT: Yes.

PINSKY: Number one. But, I get sort of overwhelmed emotionally when I even think about doing a job like that. I am grateful for guys like you

doing that job. I am grateful for guys like that doing that job.

But it seems like since the advent of the phone, we are picking up a problem in this country, do not you think? I mean we got -- is it

training? or is it more -- is it -- you know, by the way, every little town --

Maybe it is more money to attract better -- better, you know, trained people or more educated people. I do not know. It just feels like every

little town has to feel the team. You know what I mean? That is hard by itself.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: I mean I cannot say that -- Again, this are not racial --

PINSKY: It is a problem here, you are saying it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: There is a problem at the same time. In a split second decision, what do you do?

PINSKY: I can imagine.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: I do not care how much training you had.

BROWN: But, you said the "T" word. You said taser. And, that is the thing, he pulled out a gun on a little girl in a bathing suit. That is the

problem for me here.

You are right, in a split second, of course, anyone is going to have to make that decision. But if you pull out a gun on teenagers, what type of

message are you sending to them and what type of message are you sending us and the public?

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

PINSKY: And, Vanessa, it could have been another "Uh-oh," you know? They are not military guys, right? They are not as trained -- I do not know. I

do not know. I feel like the LAPD does an amazing job of not using lethal force.

BROWN: Right.

PINSKY: And, they have all these different options at their disposal, rubber bullets and bin bags and dogs. But that is expensive, everybody.

Lauren, I want you to get in on this. Lauren Lake from Paternity Court, what do you say about this?

LAKE: Dr. Drew, his intention was in his words. He talked to those children like they were worthless. He was cursing, running around there,

acting a fool and he knows it.

(LAUGHING)

PINSKY: OK.

LAKE: And, when these two young men came up to see if the young girl was OK, he pulls a gun on them and like I say, I shudder to think --

PINSKY: Lauren.

LAKE: -- what could happen --

PINSKY: First of all --

PINSKY: -- if his temper went to the next level.

PINSKY: Yes.

BROWN: Preach!

PINSKY: Yes.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

(LAUGHING)

LAKE: This is outrage.

PINSKY: First of all, Lauren, where have you been? It has been altogether too long. Yes, sir, in the audience.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: This goes beyond a systemic racism problem. This is really -- It is like a hiring practice problem.

PINSKY: Well, that is what I am thinking.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: You know, the game we want to have --

PINSKY: Whoa! Hold on.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: America has the game we want to have in this situation --

PINSKY: Who does?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: America does. Because in the situation like the NBA, we want high flying players. It becomes a situation where 76

percent of the people are black playing the NBA.

We have got in the game we want to get. In this situation, they want to go after black people. Therefore, they hire people who are willing to take

that step --

PINSKY: What?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: -- willing to play the game that they want to play.

PINSKY: Oh dude! That is sinister.

(LAUGHING)

BARNETT: I was not ready.

PINSKY: That is sinister, man.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: I mean, you got to look at it. It is who you are hiring. If you want a bunch of black people protected, then you will

hire more black people to protect them.

But, they want is a bunch of white people protected, therefore, they are hiring a bunch of white people to protect them from black people. They are

vilifying the black people in this situation.

PINSKY: Do you really believe that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: I 100 percent believe that.

PINSKY: Do you believe that?

BROWN: It was a left for me.

COOMBS: It went a little left.

BROWN: It went a little left.

(CROSSTALKS)

BROWN: I was almost with you, but then --

BARNETT: We rolled the bus to the very end. What I will say is, I feel like there may be a grain of truth --

(LAUGHING)

PINSKY: We rolled the bus to the very end?

BARNETT: -- There is a grain of something there. There is something there.

PINSKY: Yes.

BARNETT: -- but I do not think it is as simplistic as you are making it. I think there are many, many different factors that go into the fact that

the black community does feel like it is targeted.

PINSKY: Yes.

BA RNETT: And, I do not think it is because that all the cops are white, because there are great cops of all colors. And, so, I do not think we can

just narrow it down to that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: What is the percentage of --

BARNETT: Yoh, I ain`t got the sex. I do not got the car fetch, but I will tell you that we --

(LAUGHING)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: In Ferguson, it is 95 percent white cops. 95 percent in Ferguson. That is a fact --

PINSKY: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: -- you know, statistic that we have all talked about.

PINSKY: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: So, what I am saying is it is a situation that systemic within our culture? It is racism on every side. It is not

just the white people who have racist feelings, it is black people, but we have grown up in it. We have grown inside the situation, and that is what

is causing the problem. So, therefore, we are hiring people and we are getting like I said, the game that we want to see.

PINSKY: Would you agree that to continue to be divisive is the wrong way to go about it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: 100 percent.

PINSKY: OK.

BARNETT: Well, the poll was divisive --

PINSKY: So, we all got to get the vote together, yes?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: Yes.

PINSKY: It is all getting the vote.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: Yes, but if I say something that is anti- establishment, am I being divisive when the situation -- when this person is getting beaten down? Is not that divisive? Is not that continuing

being divisive?

PINSKY: Yes. I think. But my point being is we can all agree we need to get in the same boat together, right? We all need to get there, and if we

hit the bus going all the way -- roll into the end of the street? Was that the word OK?

BARNETT: That is almost it is.

PINSKY: If it goes to the end of the street, I am not sure that is going to be a productive place to stay. But I am -- Spirit, you want to bring

something up?

SPIRIT CLANTON, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Yes, because I want to say, if we all need to get into the boat together, then we also have to realize that

officers are in that boat with us.

PINSKY: Yes. Absolutely.

CLANTON: OK. So, it is not a them versus us.

BARNETT: Yes.

PINSKY: Yes.

CLANTON: And, one part of this conversation we are not having is the fact we have to teach our children, regardless of age, to comply with the law.

[21:20:00] There is a piece of this, regardless of what her age was, this is an officer that we have empowered and given jurisdiction over us. He

gave her commands, and what she said was "Call my mother." --

PINSKY: Yes.

CLANTON: "I am not bowing down. I am not laying down. You cannot contain me in this situation." And, that is the problem that escalated it.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

PINSKY: And, Lauren, I am going to give you the last word.

LAKE: Yes. Like I said before, Dr. Drew. And, this is where it gets scary. It goes to fear and perception.

PINSKY: Yes.

LAKE: People do not think that police are coming into a situation to help them. They feel like they are coming in to antagonize.

PINSKY: That is a tragedy.

LAKE: That is a problem for our young people --

PINSKY: OK.

LAKE: -- that we have to deal with, sensitivity training for the police, and also, as Spirit says, talking to our young people. But, here, that

young girl was scared.

BARNETT: That is right.

PINSKY: I know.

LAKE: She did not know what to do. You could see that.

PINSKY: Yes. Listen, it is a tragedy all the way around. It is something that needs to be fixed. It is something coming to our awareness now that

we have all been able to push away and minimize, but it is in our face every day.

So, my hope and prayer is that we will all climb into the boat and begin rowing together, which is euphemistic, I understand it is not very

specific. I would like to see the cameras on the lapel. That would go a long way.

I would think having, you know -- Maybe the due process change a little bit more like a military system, where make people more accountable. But, I am

no expert in this.

I just wanting to keep the conversation going on, to keep this on the boat together. We need to gather together as a country these days. Too much

divisiveness.

Next up, Jill and Jessa Duggar. They were sexually abused by their brother, Josh. You will hear from them, after this.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[21:25:37] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE CATHERWOOD, LOVE LINE CO-HOST: The problem started when you start celebrating people cheerily because they popped out 19 kids.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Michelle and Jim Bob admit, their son molested four of his siblings, blaming though, everyone but the molester. Hear from his two

sisters who were the abused children. The sisters, the victims, Josh`s sisters, Jessa, defended him on Fox News.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JESSA DUGGAR, SEXUALLY ABUSED BY HER BROTHER, JOSH DUGGAR: In Josh`s case, he was a boy -- young boy in puberty and he was curious about girls. And,

that got him into some trouble, and he made some bad choices. But, really the extent of it was mild, inappropriate touching on fully clothed victims.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Time for a segment we call, "Celebrity Behavior." Jill and Jessa Duggar molested by their brother, Josh. Now, they are defending him in

their interview with Fox News. Here is more of that interview. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JILL DUGGAR, MOLESTED BY HER BROTHER, JOSH DUGGAR: It is like you never think, like, this will happen to me or something.

JESSA DUGGAR: Yes.

JILL DUGGAR: And in our case, it is very mild compared to what happens to some.

JESSA DUGGAR: I know so many girls go through things that are way worse.

JILL DUGGAR: So for me even when my parents came and sat down and told me this, I was like, really? Like, you know, I am sad. I am shocked.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with Loni, Vanessa and Karamo. And, Vanessa and Loni, I just want you to know, we are about to engage in a little mild, inappropriate

touching. OK? Would that be OK with you? Above the clothes -- well, I might go under the clothes once a while, but was that OK with you?

BARNETT: Oh my goodness.

PINSKY: If you are asleep -- Well, how about if you are asleep? Would that be better?

BARNETT: I think you are taking what they are saying. You are twisting it.

PINSKY: I am not. It is exactly what they are saying.

BARNETT: Just say what they are saying, but you are taking it out of context. What these girls are doing is not surprising to me. It is not

shocking at all. What they are doing is that they are defending their family against the world.

PINSKY: OK.

BARNETT: The world is attacking them right now.

PINSKY: I will agree on to that. That not helpful --

BARNETT: They have forgiven their brother --

PINSKY: OK.

BARNETT: -- which they are allowed to do.

PINSKY: Yes.

BARNETT: We keep forgetting that this is a very Christian-based family, forgiveness is top notch. And, these people, they did go to the

authorities. They did what they did feel like they did what was right --

PINSKY: But, Vanessa --

BARNETT: -- and if you look at it today, this is a decade later.

PINSKY: Yes.

BARNETT: What have we seen since then that looks as though these girls have been horribly affected by this? They are not in jail. They are not

out killing people. Maybe the Duggars have done something right.

BROWN: Vanessa, you did not just say that -- no, Vanessa, you did not just say that the people who are basically confused and they are using their

religion to confuse not only themselves and their children, that they might have done something right?

BARNETT: How are they --

BROWN: That little girls are talking about, they were mildly touched. They are going to be damaged in their minds for the rest of their lives

whether they will acknowledge it or not.

Vanessa, if someone was to touch you underneath your dress right now, especially a family member and tell you that, "Listen. I am touching you

inappropriately right now." --

PINSKY: I am just making a choice.

BROWN: You are going to tell me that you would be fine with that?

PINSKY: That is the choice.

BARNETT: But, what I will say -- I will say, they were very young.

PINSKY: Yes.

BARNETT: Both of them were very young.

PINSKY: Makes it worst.

BROWN: Makes it worst.

BARNETT: They talked about this. They sought out counseling --

PINSKY: We do not know.

BARNETT: They talked about -- I am sorry, they have talked about it.

PINSKY: Do we have that footage where they are talking about their licensed counselor? Can we play that? Yes, the girls talked about

counseling they received. I am not seeing this yet. So, we will see how licensed this was.

BROWN: OK.

(LAUGHING)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JILL DUGGAR: What you do in counseling. You talk about what happened, you talk about the actions that have been taken. You just -- we really wanted

to make sure that everything in our hearts was dealt with.

(CROSSTALK)

MEGYN KELLY, FOX NEWS HOST: Was it cathartic for you?

JILL DUGGAR: Not anything --

KELLY: Did you -- did you solve some things in there?

JESSA DUGGAR: It was -- it was really good and I am really grateful that my parents encouraged us to go through that, to get that licensed

counseling.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: I do not know what that was. I do not know what that is.

COOMBS: Well, Dr. Drew, they do say in this -- the girls say that the department of health and services -- you were wondering about this if they

did an investigation.

PINSKY: Yes.

COOMBS: They did an investigation. They said that everything was OK, that what the parents did was OK. And, I have to say something. I recognize a

lot of people do not like what the Duggars say.

And, because of that they attack them and say this is all based on their religious views and they are not handling it correctly. These two girls

are the victims.

PINSKY: Yes.

COOMBS: They are the victims.

BARNETT: Yes.

COOMBS: And, who are we to stand up and say, "You are not handling this right as a victim because we do not like what you are saying." They should

be able to handle that, however they can handle it. And, if this is getting him through, how can we say that they are not going to be healthy

handling it this way?

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

BARNETT: Right.

PINSKY: Spirit, how do we get people to understand that the kids are kind of stuck in a conundrum there.

CLANTON: Yes.

PINSKY: And, it is OK -- listen, I am not going to judge it, either, but it is very concerning that the proper evaluations maybe have not been done.

[21:30:00] CLANTON: Well, I am going to judge --

PINSKY: OK.

CLANTON: -- as a licensed therapist and nationally certified counselor.

PINSKY: Yes.

CLANTON: Because those girls are coached. That is not the words of a victim. And, the younger they are, we know that the more damage is done.

And, we know the harder it is to get over it.

What is happening now is that these girls are being re-victimized, because the victims are now having to come to the aid of the perpetrator and to say

it was mild. There is no such thing as mild when it comes to sexual abuse, either it is or it is not.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

BROWN: Exactly.

PINSKY: Yes. It is --

COOMBS: Wait.

BARNETT: I do not think they see it that way.

CLANTON: I do not think they see it as -

COOMBS: Do they have to say they are going to hate their brother for the rest of their lives?

BROWN: Well, no. We are not saying that they are not going to hate their brother, but they are clearly being coached like Spirit said.

PINSKY: Listen. Guys -- guys.

BROWN: This behavior is wrong.

PINSKY: Guys, it is possible to forgive without being in denial.

BROWN: Yes.

PINSKY: And minimizing it, and obfiscating and rationalizing. Those are all -- we are watching this. This is why Spirit and I are bugged by this.

We are watching these defensive strategies, which tells us something is up, right?

Even though, they are coached, you will see all that still operating. Same interestingly defensive strategies the parents are using. But they are not

in a psychiatric hospital. They are not cutting themselves -- I do not think.

I do not know that they are doing anything like that. They seem to have decent relationships. So, things are going OK. I agree with you, Loni,

they are. It is just this stuff about it that is deeply concerning. That is all.

COOMBS: Well, I think it makes everyone nervous, but let us say. Now that they are talking about this, more and more people are saying, this is going

on in my home. I grew up with this if something happened? What do you expect that parents are probably wondering out there? What would I do?

What should I do, Dr. Drew? Do I banish my son forever from the home?

BARNETT: Right.

COOMBS: How do I --

PINSKY: I understand --

COOMBS: How do I -- the abuser and the victim?

PINSKY: -- you have a mental health problem in your house. You do not have a parenting problem.

BROWN: Yes.

PINSKY: You get professional intervention --

BARNETT: What if they felt like they did? At the end of the day for these people, they went to a Christian-based therapy or whatever. For them, that

is above anything else you can give them. That is the top notch for them.

BROWN: That is the problem right there.

PINSKY: Hold on. Hold on. So, Loni, asked a great question, which is, you know, what if you had a famous family? How would handle it? Would you

go public? What if you were involved in a sex scandal? We will debate that. We are going to actually talk to a survivor as well. Back after

this.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[21:36:23] PINSKY: When a kid has been exposed for long periods of time, that is when they tend to identify with the victimizer. That is called a

Stockholm Syndrome.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KELLY: Do you feel like a victim of a molestation?

JESSA DUGGAR: Well, I think in the case of what Josh did was very wrong. I am not going to justify anything that he did or say it was OK, not

permissible. But, I do want to speak up in his defense against people who are calling him a child molester or a pedophile.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CATHERWOOD: When you do not perceive someone who perpetrate any type of trauma on you as a predator going into it, it is really easy to then

sympathize or justify their behavior.

PINSKY: Right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: So, did the Duggar`s attempt damage control in the wake of this molestation scandal? Did they make matters worse? I am back with Loni,

Vanessa, Karamo. I got Spirit.

A lot of folks have accused the Duggars of being hypocritical for espousing Christian values, knowing all the while they have had this going on in

their home. Here is what Jill told Fox News.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JILL DUGGAR: Some people, I heard them saying, you know, "You are hypocrite." Well, if you go back and look at everything that people have

seen in our lives -- in television, you know, we have never claimed to be a perfect family. My parents have always actually stated, you know, "We are

not a perfect family."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: All right. So, Loni, there are some things these guys are saying that I sign off on. They say, you know, I am not going to forget -- it is

not OK what he did.

COOMBS: Right.

PINSKY: People still should not be attacking us. I mean some of the things are saying are reasonable, straightforward, and healthy, frankly.

COOMBS: Yes. Yes.

PINSKY: OK.

COOMBS: Yes. And, you know, a lot of people are saying, they should not have forgive them --

PINSKY: No. No. Forgiveness is fine.

COOMBS: And, they also said, "Look. Our dad taught us, you can forgive but you can still have boundaries and you do not have to trust them. We

did not trust him." So, they were actually -- I think some good talks that were --

PINSKY: But, again -- Loni -- Loni,the trick then, is to be able to trust other people.

BARNETT: Right.

PINSKY: I understand, but that is where the treatment comes in. But, we do not know what is going on? I hope it is going well.

COOMBS: We do not know what is going on?

BARNETT: If this is not recovery, then what does it look like? These girls look like they are healthy, well adjusted, they have forgiven. They

know what is wrong. They know boundaries.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

PINSKY: I do not know. But, I think, Karamo, makes it uncomfortable, everything is so glossy. We do not really trust it. It is like a little

in denial obfuscation there.

BROWN: Yes. It is so glossy. She asked them one simple question. Do you think what he did was wrong, yes or no? And, they could not even say yes.

That is an issue for me.

BARNETT: They said, yes, it is wrong, but I --

BROWN: No -- No, she did not say. She said, well, I am not going to say anything bad against my brother --

COOMBS: She said, "I am not going to justify that what he did. It was wrong."

BARNETT: Exactly.

BROWN: But, she did not say "Yes" that it was wrong.

COOMBS: OK. So, she did not answer exactly the way you wanted it, but she said, very clearly, "Look, I am not going to condone what he did. What he

did was wrong. It should not have happened, but we worked through it and put it behind us."

PINSKY: I would like to bring now Cheryl Hunter into this conversation. She is a trauma survivor herself. She has been kidnapped, raped, left for

dead as a teenager. Yes, I know, sorry, Vanessa, it is crazy. But, Cheryl, you told -- first of all, thank you for joining us and then being

willing to talk about this.

CHERYL HUNTER: My pleasure. Thank you.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

PINSKY: You told our producer that you thought that one of the issues that troubled you was that abuse was sort of normalized in the household.

HUNTER: Right. When you are, particularly, at a fundamental age, that formulative of ages, you tried to cope the best you can, and one of the

ways to do that is to normalize what has happened. One of the ways that --

PINSKY: Or to identify with the abuser, too.

HUNTER: Very good.

PINSKY: Which is used that strategy as well.

HUNTER: I was going to say, one of the ways you can tell it is by the way that they talk about the abuser. And, they minimize the abuse in saying,

"It was very mild. It is nothing compared to what others have gone through. It also happened a long time ago."

[21:40:00] PINSKY: Arlene on Twitter asked, "Is it possible that J.D.," that is Josh, "was sexually curious because he was so sheltered from the

natural experiences in a child`s life?" People keep going to that stuff. That is not what makes people an abuser.

BROWN: That is right.

PINSKY: -- recurrent repeated, sort of compulsive. The kids are like -- They are trying to practically tying his hands and he is going, I found my

way out again.

HUNTER: And, there is the abuse and then there is what was done about it. And, from what I understand, they sat on it before even seeking help --

PINSKY: For quite a while.

HUNTER: -- for over a year.

PINSKY: Yes.

HUNTER: And, imagine --

PINSKY: What does that do to the victim?

HUNTER: Imagine what is gone on for these girls. They find that it is not even a safe place to sleep. Let alone live, that talking out is going to

destroy everything they know and their entire world. There is no safety there. And, what I see is it seems to me that they still exhibit classic

victim behavior.

PINSKY: OK. And, that is what we are all kind of seeing and troubling us. A question, sir, go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: Yes. A comment and then a question.

PINSKY: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: My comment is which I feel that religion is kind of being used as a scapegoat in regards to saying that, "Oh, well, it

is a little over-eccentric. I am from Utah. And, this is a little bit more touchy for me. I grew up Mormon, predominantly Mormon.

Obviously, went through a same or similar situation. But, what I am all concerned about is that we are all jumping to judgment saying, "Oh, they

are being coached. The religion is doing this, et cetera." And, I do not think that necessarily is fair game, especially to the fact that they are

in the public eye.

PINSKY: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: You know, and they are going through this as a personal experience.

PINSKY: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: How much courage that takes for them to come out and to talk about these things, and we are sitting here ridiculing them

saying, "Oh, the religion is doing this, and that and the other," which I think is wrong. I do not think, we should not be doing that.

BROWN: I do not think too at all. I think that religion plays a big piece in this. First of all, these people have come out publicly and damned

people, who are in the LGBT community, but then they say that someone who are molesting that these OK, you can forgive that?

PINSKY: No, no, no, they are saying someone who have been molesting children should be put to death.

BROWN: Really? That is what the dad said. Josh`s dad.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: Did this family saying that?

PINSKY: Yes.

BROWN: But, then, secondly, also, when you are in the public eye, you are putting yourself in a place to get ridicule and to put yourself out there.

So, I am not going to say, "Well, hey, now we have to say, well, you know, we give you a pass." You put yourself and your children on reality T.V.,

So, yes, we are going to damn well talk about this.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

PINSKY: But, I do not think -- you are right, we are not be throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I will grant you that. The problem was that

the religious community was -- I think, irresponsible in not helping this family come to professional help.

In fact, the religious reviewers or support that they went to said, "No, do not go to a professional because that is where kids really learn how to be

molesters." That was in the police report, and that was not OK with me. Spirit, I am sure you agree with me on that one.

CLANTON: Yes. It is really scary. And, then if you look at it, the other piece of this too was that they use the religion to say, this is why it

should be forgiven. This is why we minimized it. It happened a long time ago. It was just childish curiosity.

PINSKY: I hate it. More question from the audience, please.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Yes. I was just wondering, do you think it is responsible that the Duggar family had this show in the first place

seeing that the population is over 7 billion?

(LAUGHING)

PINSKY: You are asking if they should have had the children.

(CROSSTALKS)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: I think you said earlier that it was not a parenting issue --

PINSKY: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: It was more of just a therapy issue.

PINSKY: A mental health. Mental health problems.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: But, do not you feel like maybe they were not able to provide all the parenting to all these children?

PINSKY: I could not. Could you? Cheryl, do you have kids?

HUNTER: I do not. But, I cannot imagine --

PINSKY: But, could you imagine?

BARNETT: That is unfair to say.

PINSKY: What? Maybe they can. I could not, I said.

BARNETT: If people can have one kid, they can raise 30. It does not matter how many you have. I d not think that --

BROWN: Well, 19 is a bunch.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Stop fighting, you guys. One more.

(LAUGHING)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: Dr. Drew, my question is just basically, what are some of the effects of growing up in a larger family? And, also as it

relates to the subject. I just think viewing the entire issue under a blanket of Christianity is just a very singular way to approach life in

general.

PINSKY: So they were too inclusive in their world.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: I think the entire issue is being viewed to inclusively. There are in array of philosophies and world views one can

take on living on earth.

PINSKY: Right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: And, I look at it from a Christian point of view and American society is just --

PINSKY: Too narrow.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE: Irresponsible -- yes.

PINSKY: Cheryl, what do you think should have been done for these girls? Because I think you need comprehensive treatment. You need moving on. You

need evaluation on what the trauma meant for them, you evaluation of their interpersonal lives. What do you say?

HUNTER: Immediately, it would be acting upon that the moment they suspected something or learned about it. Making the foremost commitment to

making sure the girls feel safe and they are getting the help that they need. You know, there was a comment earlier about are we ridiculing them?

PINSKY: Yes.

HUNTER: I think what everybody wants is for them and every other victim to be fine; but I do not see them as being fine.

[21:45:00] PINSKY: OK. That is it, I just want to say one thought about this as we finish this topic up, which is this is a really common problem

in our country. These are not bad people. These are people who have had a mental health problem in their family that has been handled in ways that

are suspect, and we are concerned about that.

Listen, if nothing else happens from this, it is that the girls get proper evaluation. The perpetrator gets proper evaluation. He has a family and

of young kids. And, that we all raised awareness about this problem. This is so common, sexual abuse by adults of children, children on children.

You cannot imagine how common it is and the consequences are profound.

Next up, it is the "Click Fix." Jennifer Lopez facing a lawsuit because she is too sexy. Back after this.

(LAUGHING)

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

PINSKY: Time now for "Click Fix" where my guests tell me what is trending on their Instagram feeds, Facebook, Twitter feeds. Back with Loni,

Vanessa, Karamo. Loni first.

[21:50:05] COOMBS: OK. So, this story is all over Instagram because of course, we all want excuses to put sexy pictures of Jennifer Lopez all over

our Instagram, right? So, Jennifer did a concert in Morocco, which she has done before. No problem. But then somebody decided to actually broadcast

it on T.V. in Morocco. Well, a lots of people got upset. They started calling it indecent, disgraceful, delinquent, sexually suggestive --

BARNETT: Well, of course it is sexually suggestive --

PINSKY: Did she get sued?

COOMBS: Well, yes. The prime minister has actually gotten involved and said he wants it investigated, and there is an educational group that is

saying it was a disturbed public order and it tarnished women`s honor and respect and they are trying to sue J.Lo and her promoter.

BARNETT: Yes.

PINSKY: Wow.

BARNETT: Nobody can live up to those standards. .

PINSKY: Do you guys want me to say that? OK. J.Lo has endowments?

BROWN: Gate.

(LAUGHING)

PINSKY: We will leave it at that. Vanessa, what do you got?

BARNETT: I have some Instagram news, too, but this is selfies and sex toys. This teacher is a male teacher and he offers extra credit to

sophomores if they take a picture with their parents` like sex toys -- When you need an A, I will do all these things for grades. What are you talking

about?

PINSKY: Is that teacher getting in a trouble?

BARNETT: Well, they want -- of course the parents are outraged, but the teacher still in the classroom. He will not comment on the current

investigation. And one of the children showed up, he had a selfie, and the teacher said, "This is an example of what you should do. This is the way

to go about it."

PINSKY: Are you going to show us that?

BARNETT: Well, I do not think so. I do not think we can show that.

PINSKY: Let us leave that be. All right, Karamo.

(LAUGHING)

BROWN: All right. So, now, this 17-year-old kid breaks into a house and the homeowner finds him -- he is new, by the way --

BARNETT: Because that is how you break in.

BROWN: Yes, he break in new. The homeowner finds him, shoots him. And then when the homeowner tries to get him a towel, so that he can help

himself, he comes back and the kid is on the porch masturbating.

PINSKY: What?

BROWN: You heard me.

PINSKY: This must be someone very, very, very sick.

BROWN: Yes, very, very sick.

PINSKY: Yes.

BROWN: Even though sometimes they do need to get a nut, just saying. So, when the police arrived, the 17-year-old, actually hits the cop in the

groin area.

PINSKY: Yes

BROWN: Yes. So, now, there is a lot going on here.

PINSKY: Something is very wrong.

BROWN: Now, the teen -- yes. Obviously, the teen is going to recover. He is facing charges of burglary, attempted rape, assault on a police officer

and public indecency.

BARNETT: Attempted rape?

COOMBS: Where attempted rape come from?

BARNETT: Who is he trying to rape?

BROWN: His pee-pee. I do not know.

PINSKY: You guys are doing so great tonight before this "Click Fix." Do not forget to follow us on Facebook. We will have our after-show there. I

think we are probably talking about -- well, you will have to come follow us to see what we are talking about. We will be right back, after this.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[21:56:58] PINSKY: Time for Dr. Drew`s Qs. It is your chance to ask me a question on any topic that I will try to stump me for that matter and I

will start to answer it. Tweet me your questions @Dr.DrewHLN and use the #DrDrewsQs.

We will start with a Facebook question from Sarah. "Is it possible that some trans people," meaning transgender, "actually suffer from multiple

personality disorder?"

And, it is possible that they would have a concomitant medical psychiatric or psychological problem. But no, no, there is not a relationship between

-- I understand why you could make that mistake.

But gender identity and self-identity, self-formation are very different overlapping phenomenon. Different syndromes, entirely. Question from the

audience. Yes, ma`am.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: I have a question. How does someone with an eating disorder make their family and friends understand that what they see

when they look in the mirror is not what others see and that their self- worth is based purely of whether they are fat or thin on that particular day?

PINSKY: I imagine you -- is that a very close person like a family member?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Yes.

PINSKY: Yes. It would be very frustrating and scary, I am sure. And, I am sure you walk on eggshells a little bit as well. Is that person in

treatment?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Somewhat.

PINSKY: OK. That is the important thing. You have become a supportive, whatever it is, sibling, parent, whatever it is -- cousin. Be very

supportive. Be very present. Show them how much you care and love for them, but get them into proper care.

That is really -- that is everything. That is -- It is just like addiction or just like any these other psychiatric -- just like what happened in the

Duggars` house. Do not pretend it is something you can handle on your own.

It is something -- I see you are getting a little upset about it, but it is something that really can get better. There are lots of great

professionals out there that can treat it. Oh, you are upset.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: No. I am fine.

PINSKY: No, it is not fine. Are you OK? Are you sure?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Yes.

PINSKY: Had she had treatment?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: She is going through it.

PINSKY: Is it bulimia?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: It is --

PINSKY: Is it bulimia or --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Anorexia.

PINSKY: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: And somewhat overlapping.

PINSKY: Just stay super supportive and if she had any trauma, make sure that gets treatment for it as well. OK? All right. thank you for asking.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

PINSKY: All right, Twitter, Dane asked, "An addiction to gambling?" her friend is addicted to gambling, "Is it as harmful as drug or alcohol

addiction?" Well, if that is your addiction, it is certainly as harmful. It can destroy lives. It can destroy relationships. It can destroy,

obviously, your financial status.

And, it is, man, when you see real gambling addictions, it is stunning how people just cannot contain the behavior. And, that is what makes an

addiction. They want to stop it. They are dying to stop. They cannot in spite of the consequences. There is different kind of gambling addicts.

Some gambling addicts like to lose. T They do not all like to win. Yes, ma`am?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Hi, Dr. Drew. I have a question to deal with a conception. Do you recommend any special exercises?

PINSKY: For conception?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Yes. Any provisions.

(LAUGHING)

PINSKY: No. Mostly like timing. Like, you know, make sure that everyone is properly assessed gynecologically and neurologically, and that you time

it with ovulation. You get the ovulation kits over the counter. That is about all I can say. I am sure I have more ideas if I have more time, but

I do not. DVR us then you can watch us any time. You have been a great audience. You have been a great audience. Thanks for watching. We will

see you next time.

[22:00:00] (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

END