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Earthquake Leaves Hikers Stranded; U.S. Government Hacked; Remembering Beau Biden; New Info in Hastert Case. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired June 5, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[15:00:03]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: With me now, first up, Chris Frates, CNN investigative correspondent.

Chris, you know, in hearing from this young man's -- from this Stephen Reinbolt's sister, insisting the money wasn't given to her, what's the connection then between the money and the allegations?

CHRIS FRATES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I will tell you, Brooke, the connection is the allegations of sexual abuse.

And here's how it all ties together. The sister is one of Denny Hastert's former student, is telling ABC that Hastert abused her brother throughout his entire high school career, Steve Reinbolt was abused by Hastert in the late '60s and early '70s while Hastert while a high school wrestling coach and Reinbolt was the team's equipment manager. That's according to his sister, Jolene Burdge.

Now, Burdge says her brother first told her about the alleged abuse back in 1979, when he revealed to her that he was gay. When her brother died 16 years later, Hastert attended his funeral. And Burdge sister confronted him about the abuse.

Now, federal prosecutors allege that Hastert that agreed to pay someone known only as Individual A $3.5 million to hide past conduct. And Hastert is charged with trying to hide the hush money to Individual A and lying to the FBI.

Now, Burdge told ABC she's not the one who got the hush money alleged in the indictment. But CNN is told the CNN has also spoken to a second person as part of the investigation, not Burdge, who is alleged to have also been a victim.

Now, we have reached out to Hastert's attorney and the FBI for comment, but we have not heard back. And, Brooke, Hastert's not made a public statement since he was indicted last week. And he's scheduled to make his first appearance in court here in Chicago on Tuesday.

BALDWIN: Chris Frates, thank you so much.

Want to continue on with this, Michael Smerconish, anchor, host of "SMERCONISH," and a CNN political commentator. And you and I sat here exactly one week ago. You said, Brooke, I read

the indictment, and you pointed out that first line of the indictment. Do you remember that?

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Sure, the fact that he was identified not as being a former speaker of the House, but identified as being a former coach and high school teacher. That was obviously deliberate.

And then further along, I said to you, note the reference to Individual A, who has known Hastert most of his, meaning Individual A's life.

BALDWIN: Right.

SMERCONISH: I said, put two and two together, and it tells you that the allegation is of misconduct when Hastert was in school and this was a pupil, student.

BALDWIN: So we don't know specifically at this point who Individual A is. I was talking to Mark Geragos last hour. He was saying, listen, Brooke, this person is going to have to be part of this arraignment next Tuesday. And so his guest was eventually people will find out.

SMERCONISH: Eventually, people will find out.

And we will also find out how many Individual A's there might be.

BALDWIN: There are.

SMERCONISH: It seems that, when you have an instance, a case like this, there's rarely one victim. Nevertheless, I'm still uncomfortable about all this as an attorney, because...

BALDWIN: How do you mean?

SMERCONISH: ... he's not being prosecuted for any of this horrific alleged misconduct. He's being prosecuted for taking in excess of $10,000 out of his bank and then lying to the feds about it.

BALDWIN: Lying to the feds.

SMERCONISH: And I don't think that should be a crime. To me, it's the ultimate don't tread on me. Whose business is it if I have more than $10,000 in the bank and I choose to take it out of my account?

And I also continue to wonder, Brooke, about the statute of limitations having run in this case.

BALDWIN: That's the thing.

SMERCONISH: Yes, and whether -- let me just say it -- was Hastert himself a victim of extortion? We don't know.

BALDWIN: So, with the statute of limitations, and again we don't know if there are multiple Individual A's out there, the likelihood of new charges that would be germane to this potential sex abuse...

SMERCONISH: The underlying incidents would seem to be 34 to 50 years old, OK? If it were a murder case, there would be no statute of limitations. It's not a murder case.

BALDWIN: Right.

SMERCONISH: Chances are, it's when someone reaches majority status, 18 plus two, meaning when they're 20 years old, those claims are extinguished.

So my hunch is that whomever Individual A might be had no cognizable legal claim against Hastert as of 2010, when he walked into Hastert's office. So if that's...

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Because that is when the money started flowing.

SMERCONISH: Correct.

So if money began to flow after that, one of two things, it would seem to me, took place. Either Hastert had some epiphany, some come to Jesus moment, where he said, my God, I can't believe I did this, let me give you $3.5 million, potentially.

A different scenario is that Individual A said to Hastert, if you don't pay me that kind of money, I'm going to publicize all this. If the individual had no cognizable legal claim at the time, then it's a case of extortion.

BALDWIN: And we do know for a fact, with the $3.5 million, that was all going to this one person, this one singular individual.

(CROSSTALK)

SMERCONISH: Right. Apparently, $1.7 million had already been paid.

(CROSSTALK)

SMERCONISH: And Hastert was brazen. He had to have known. He participated as part of the Patriot Act in the reauthorization of this law.

[15:05:04]

He didn't take money out in $9,999 increments. He took out 15 different $50,000 withdrawals.

BALDWIN: In cash.

SMERCONISH: He had to have known what he was doing. In cash. Had to -- and then the answer to the FBI was, I don't trust the U.S. banking system. And that's why I'm sticking it all under my mattress.

(CROSSTALK) BALDWIN: That's right.

SMERCONISH: There's still more unknown than known about this case. That's my point.

BALDWIN: And I have more for you. So then also, the judge, right? Isn't there a twist with the judge, who the judge that will be overseeing this next week? Did he donate to Hastert's campaign?

SMERCONISH: To a prior Hastert campaign. But that doesn't shock me, only because of -- you know, that's the nature of the system, that he or she who's active in the political process and makes donations perhaps some day ends up on the federal bench.

The fact that the judge is still involved in the case, that surprises me.

BALDWIN: OK, Michael Smerconish.

SMERCONISH: Next Friday, we will see where this thing stands.

BALDWIN: I know. Every -- every week, there's a new twist. We will talk next Friday.

SMERCONISH: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Thank you so much.

Make sure you check out Michael's new Web site, Smerconish.com.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: There you go.

SMERCONISH: Love having you check it out.

BALDWIN: Don't miss "SMERCONISH" CNN tomorrow 9:00 a.m. Eastern.

Thank you so much, as always. I really appreciate it.

ISIS' mastery of social media and its ability to use the Internet for its messaging may have now backfired. You see, a U.S. general speaking Monday before the Air Force Association said a selfie -- can't believe I'm talking about ISIS and selfies -- but a selfie posted online by a member of ISIS revealed the location of one of the terror group's headquarters.

He called the member who posted the photo, and I'm quoting, "a moron."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. HAWK CARLISLE, U.S. AIR FORCE: The guys that were working down out of Hurlburt, they're combing through social media. And they see some moron standing at this command and in social media, open forum, bragging about the command-and-control capability for Da'esh, ISIL. And these guys go, we got an in. So they do some work. Long story

short, about 22 hours later, through that very building, three JDAMs take the entire building taken out through social media. It was a post on a social media to bombs on target in less than 24 hours.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: The general said U.S. warplanes promptly destroyed that compound.

I have got my CNN senior international correspondent, Nick Paton Walsh, following all of this from Baghdad.

And I don't know if it's the fact that this ISIS member took a selfie or the fact that obviously the U.S. is monitoring where those selfies would go to track the location to bomb the compound. Wow.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I mean, you have to put some perspective on this, really, I think.

I mean, obviously, yes, we don't know exactly how the Air Force tracked down where that selfie was taken. Sometimes, you can simply forget to switch off geo-tagging on the picture you take and give the location away simply through that. Or it may have been geolocating, which is a more sophisticated technique that involves looking at the landmarks around a picture, working out where that is in the topography of certain maps.

And then you launch that strike. But those three JDAMs, about $60,000 worth of munitions, frankly, to take out that headquarters. I should point out this particular incidence being publicized you saw there by the Air Force, but it comes at a time of not fantastically good news, frankly, and U.S. officials trying to show a lot of positive signs.

We have heard them using body counts, not something we have heard since Vietnam, recently. The State Department say the campaign has killed 10,000 ISIS. Well, the Air Force saying it's actually 13. Some confusion there, it seems, since the campaign began. But, also, this comes, as you well know, Brooke, we have been talking about this, Anbar province, not far from where I'm standing here in Baghdad, that is currently the focus of a campaign to push ISIS out.

But the reverse seems to be happening, Ramadi, a key city, still in ISIS hands, despite this campaign being under way for weeks now, and a key dam in that city, cutting off water to those who are in pro- government areas below it downstream, making life very hard for them there, causing people to flee in the hundreds and putting perhaps in doubt quite when this counteroffensive can begin.

So, when you hear that kind of high-tech notion of how the U.S. can target ISIS, you have to remember it comes at a time when they're not having much other good news, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Nick Paton Walsh, thank you so much in Baghdad.

Coming up next, it could be the biggest cyber-attack against the U.S. government ever, millions of federal Social Security, bank records compromised. My next guest, former DEA agent, says he was hacked in this attack.

Also, a powerful earthquake leaves hundreds of climbers stranded on one of the highest mountains in all of Asia. We will take a look at rescue attempts under way right now.

And emotions at the Delaware State Capitol, where mourners are gathering to remember Beau Biden. Stay with me.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:14:15]

BALDWIN: The attack extremely targeted and the fallout possibly tremendous. Confidential information such as Social Security numbers and bank records, even names of FBI agents could be in the hands of hackers after the biggest attack on the federal government's computer network.

The victims here, a whopping four million current or former federal workers, and the feds believe the Chinese government's fingerprints are all over this.

Joining me, David Katz, the CEO of Global Security, who also worked once upon a time for the DEA.

So, you're with me now to tell me, first of all, you're part of -- you were hacked.

DAVID KATZ, FOUNDER AND CEO, GLOBAL SECURITY GROUP: Yes.

BALDWIN: You say that like, yes. Yes.

KATZ: But that's not -- that's not the important thing. That's -- I saw the interview you had with Mr. Knake, where he suggested that why would the Chinese government want to access the Social Security numbers of guys like me?

[15:15:04]

BALDWIN: He was totally skeptical -- skeptical that it was Chinese in the first place.

KATZ: OK.

And this is the guy who was responsible for creating cyber-security policy for the National Security Council.

BALDWIN: Worked at the White House.

KATZ: I swear -- I swear -- I'm drinking a cup of coffee watching you. If you were -- if your face wasn't on the screen, a cup of coffee was going through the screen listening to that guy.

(CROSSTALK) BALDWIN: So you disagree with him, David Katz. This is what I'm hearing you say.

KATZ: Look, the most innocuous bits of information are used. People go to jail for these scraps of paper.

In the intelligence industry, anything is to your benefit. So, for example, let's say the FBI is deploying new agents someplace overseas. OPM, it's called a personnel action, what their job description is, what their background and training is, and where they're being deployed.

That's interesting for the Chinese to know. How about something like this? How about -- because China is also a -- they're very, very big into the commercial espionage. They find out that geologists for the United States government, a dozen of them, have just been sent on permanent duty station to Lagos, Nigeria. Well, that's interesting.

What did they find? Maybe they're now interested we found some new source of oil or some mineral deposit. And the list goes on and on. It has nothing to do with getting Social Security numbers to open credit cards.

BALDWIN: To open somebody's credit card or checking out a bank account.

KATZ: That's the stupidest -- the stupidest -- Mr. Knake, with all due respect, the stupidest response I have ever heard to this, because national security people, people with clearances, intelligence officers, agents, I don't know if CIA records were compromised, too, but they're handled by OPM.

BALDWIN: Four million people at OPM.

(CROSSTALK)

KATZ: Four million people. That's the value of that information.

BALDWIN: You say it's -- the how is important, but the why. What do you mean?

KATZ: Yes, well, OK, it was a deliberate targeting.

Why would anyone -- the question is, why would the Chinese target OPM? Because I talked about this in the break. You know in the TV shows, the movies, when they're talking about some covert operative, what do we know about this guy? They open a folder.

BALDWIN: Sure.

KATZ: Now they have the folder.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: They have got four million people's folders.

KATZ: Right.

But you can go online to the OPM Web site. And it describes what's in the personnel folder.

BALDWIN: Which you have done.

KATZ: Which I have done, because I have one.

BALDWIN: Yes.

KATZ: Your application, for example, which is like 50 pages long, so every detail of your life. But that's not the important thing.

Most important is what your job description is, what your title is, what your duty station is. That is the issue, because it tells the Chinese how we're deploying our assets. And that's suggestive for policy, for commercial enterprises. There's so many things that can be derived from that information.

Like I said, one little scrap of paper is useful to people. This is four million documents.

BALDWIN: So then what do -- what does the U.S. do about it? I was asking Mr. Knake -- he did work at the White House -- I was saying, what's happening behind the scenes? What do you think in terms of countering this, other than telling a DEA agent, hey, you may want to keep an eye on your bank account if you see anything shady going on there? What can be done?

(CROSSTALK)

KATZ: Well, first of all, they need to come out with the evidence that shows exactly -- if they're suggesting it's China, with all due respect to your former guest, good bet it's China.

And it's not a couple of kids, a couple of Chinese kids in a basement doing it. It's state-supported cyber-attack.

BALDWIN: OK.

KATZ: So, from that standpoint, arguably, that's absolutely an aggressive act. It's an act of war, just the same way that the Chinese hacked the plans to the stealth fighter from a Lockheed Martin subsidiary.

This is constant, it's continual, and we're doing nothing about it. So, there needs to be some extraordinary response from the White House. This is not just a matter of getting data for credit cards. OK., you get credit reports and watch your account...

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: I hear you. This is what China -- China's foreign minister has called these accusations groundless, irresponsible, and unscientific, adding China itself has been a victim of cyber-attacks and asked the United States to not be so skeptical. I realize this is not the face of somebody who's buying that, but just

telling you what China says.

KATZ: China is the single most voracious collector of information on the planet.

It's a lot easier to steal information than it is to acquire it. Look at it this way. If you wanted information about some intelligence officer, you could do surveillance on that person. You could pull their garbage, a lot of things you could do. Or you could go to the filing cabinet, open it up, and find every single detail.

In this case, you have a filing cabinet with four million folders.

BALDWIN: Right.

KATZ: Pick and choose. If you have an industry, because we have -- the federal government is more than just, you know, law enforcement and intelligence. There are people in all different -- commerce is most important.

So, in those specific job functions, where they're deployed, what they're doing, that's enormously important as well. The idea that it's not it's not -- it's valueless is an absolute insult to this discussion.

BALDWIN: David Katz, CEO of Global Security Group, never holds back, including today. Thank you, my friend. I appreciate it.

KATZ: OK. Thank you.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, 137 climbers stranded on this mountain after a huge earthquake. Coming up, we will talk to a climber who experienced the earthquake on Mount Everest recently. He can talk us through what that was like, what this could be like for all these people suffering right now.

Also, the Boston terror suspect who was shot and killed by police thought the FBI was actually trying to call him nearly three years ago.

[15:20:03]

What exactly he posted on Facebook about that -- coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Vice President Joe Biden's oldest son will be laid to rest tomorrow, but, today, a public viewing is under way in Wilmington, Delaware.

Biden's casket was carried into Saint Anthony's Catholic Church in Wilmington around noon Eastern time. Biden, a two-term Delaware attorney general, died Saturday after a long battle with brain cancer. He was 46 years old.

And CNN's Sunlen Serfaty joins me now from Wilmington.

And, Sunlen, I know this is one of several services to honor Beau Biden. Tell me what's happening today.

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Brooke, one of several over the course of three days, this being the second day of all the ceremonies.

Today is the public wake, where members of the community, senators from Washington, D.C., have come into this church to see Beau Biden's casket and, of course, pay their respects to the family, who is inside.

[15:25:10]

And, Brooke, all the way across this block, the line just stretches. It's a massive crowd that has come in today to see the casket, a lot of people in line telling us all about their personal connections to the family. And it was really not hard at all to find someone that didn't have a connection to the family.

Here's just what two women had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUTH PUGLISI, MOURNER: It just saddens me. They're such a wonderful family. And I'll miss them. I will miss Beau and the family. And I wish them the best. And I pray for them every day.

FAITH GREEN, MOURNER: Beau was a good father, a good friend, a good son, and good to all the community. Anybody that wanted to talk to Beau, he took time to talk to you and listen to you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SERFATY: And Faith Green there, she said she not only worked for Beau Biden, but worked for Joe Biden's campaign as well, so certainly a lot of community members here taking this loss in a very personal way.

Now, tomorrow, the public funeral will be held here at this church, where President Obama will deliver the eulogy. And he is said, Brooke, according to his press secretary, to be feeling this loss in a very personal way as well.

BALDWIN: Thank you so much, Sunlen.

And, again, the funeral will be held tomorrow. Beau Biden was just 46 years old.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)