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Colorado Sniper?; Crime Spike; Terror Plot. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired June 4, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[15:00:01]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: And we continue on, hour two. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Inspired by ISIS and impatient to act, Usaama Rahim, that knife- wielding Boston terror suspect killed by police, allegedly wanted to kill police himself. And we have just now learned exactly how close he was to accomplishing that.

A law enforcement official says the day Rahim died, he called his father to say, I'm quoting this official, his goodbyes. A court document also indicates on the very day police say they were forced to shoot him, Rahim spoke of going after -- quote, unquote -- "boys in blue."

The police commissioner in Boston spoke today about how imminent a threat the Joint Terrorism Task Force really thought he was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAM EVANS, BOSTON POLICE COMMISSIONER: We picked up information that he was heading out. Obviously, we knew he had access to three large knives. And, you know, he talked about going out that morning, and that's why we wanted to get him before he even got on the bus on that Washington Street, because we didn't know what he was capable of doing. He could have acted out on that bus.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Now, before Rahim targeted police, the affidavit indicates the 26-year-old security guard plotted with his nephew and a third person to behead one woman, this woman here. This is Pamela Geller, the conservative blogger known for organizing a contest in Texas to draw the Prophet Mohammed, which ended in that deadly shooting.

I have got our justice correspondent, Pamela Brown, who's been digging on this for us in Boston.

And so, Pamela, what more do you know about this phone call between Rahim and his dad?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, what we're learning from talking to law enforcement officials, Brooke, is that there were a number of signs Tuesday morning that something was imminent. And one of those signs was a phone call that Rahim apparently made to

his father that day basically saying his goodbyes. Law enforcement knew this because, as we have reported, Rahim was under 24/7 monitoring, surveillance for the past 10 days, we have learned. So they were able to listen into his phone calls, monitor his e-mail activity, and as a direct result, they were able to hear this phone call where he said his goodbyes.

Law enforcement knew from tracking him that he had bought three knives on Amazon. And so the concern, apparently, was that that day, he had talked about, you know, wanting to go target the boys in blue, that he was going to go out with one of these weapons and launch an attack.

And we have learned, talking to the police commissioner here in Boston, William Evans, that police approached him in that parking lot at that bus stop because they were worried that at that moment he was going to get on a public transportation bus and launch an attack. And so that is what caused them to go up to him and approach him.

And then, as we have heard law enforcement say, the FBI and Boston police, that he apparently lunged at them with a knife -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: What about this news conference, Pam? Rahim's family holding a news concerns in less than an hour from now. Have they seen -- as we know, members of the black and Muslim communities in Boston saw the surveillance footage. Do we know if they have seen it?

BROWN: It's been a little bit confusing as to whether or not they have seen it. We're getting conflicting reports.

We know from talking to officials here that the intent is to release the video to the public, but first that they want to have the family look at this video. So, the fact that the video hasn't been released to the public is telling. But we do -- we're anxious to hear what the family has to say at this press conference and hear their side of the story in all this -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Tune in to "THE LEAD" for that. Pamela Brown, thank you so much in Boston.

Meantime, major cities all across the United States rocked by this historic crime spike. In Milwaukee, for example, you have homicides there surging 180 percent this year. Murders and shootings are up in New York, Chicago, Saint Louis, Atlanta. And in Baltimore, a city facing its deadliest month in more than 40 years, the situation is so bad, so tense there that police are pleading with the federal government for help.

You have 43 homicides in a matter of four weeks. And according to the police commissioner in Baltimore, there are enough pills on the streets to keep the city high for one year, that coming from Anthony Batts.

Joining me now, Catherine Pugh, Maryland state senator.

Senator Pugh, thank you so much for joining me. CATHERINE PUGH (D), MARYLAND STATE SENATE MAJORITY LEADER: Thank you. Thank you.

BALDWIN: So, a little bit of information on what the commissioner was saying. So, during the riots, in the wake of Freddie Gray's death, we know that 27 pharmacies, two methadone clinics were looted, so, the result of that, 175,000 units of prescription drugs out on the streets.

Do you agree with the commissioner that violence is up specifically because of these drugs?

PUGH: Well, I don't know exactly what that number is, and I'm not sure what the commissioner's referring to, but we do know that 27 pharmacies were looted during the unrest here in Baltimore.

But we do know that there's an effort on behalf of, not just the police department, but our federal leaders, to bring in federal help to Baltimore, so that we can deal with some of these issues. As you reported earlier, spike in the crime in Baltimore is not just happening here. It's happening nationwide.

So, this is an issue that all cities around the nation are beginning to deal with. But this issue of criminal justice issues in the state of Maryland, we will begin a discussion on Monday with our commission on how do we deal these police issues that are occurring not just in our city, but in cities around the country, but, more importantly, how do we begin police/community relations so that we can get police and the community working with each other and not fearful of each other? Because everybody has a job to do, but we need to work together in that process.

(CROSSTALK)

[15:05:25]

BALDWIN: I understand. I think, though, you can't talk about all the cities and how they all, even though the crime is up, it's all because of the same reason.

And just back to my question, do you -- would you agree with the commissioner that the linkage of the two, the spike in crime and the drugs on the streets, do you believe there is a specific link?

PUGH: Well, I think -- well, let me just say drugs on the street is a problem anyway. They were a problem before. Too many drug treatment centers in one area, too many drug treatment centers in the city. So it also perpetuates the problem that the city of Baltimore is dealing with.

But, absolutely, if drugs are -- have been taken from these various pharmaceutical places, certainly, it increases the problem in the street, yes.

BALDWIN: OK. We also know, as I mentioned, Baltimore police are begging for the feds for help. Do you know specifically what kind of help they're requesting?

PUGH: Well, they're asking for federal help. But let me just say that our...

BALDWIN: But what kind of help?

PUGH: ... Senator Barbara Mikulski was here on yesterday -- well, they're asking for police help from the federal department. They're also asking for help from our federal agencies in terms of the jobs and so forth that are needed here in Baltimore City.

Barbara Mikulski was just here on yesterday with our labor commissioner talking about all of the federal help that they're going to be pulling together to make sure that Baltimore in the coming days begins to move forward with a plan to bring everybody together, the police, the community, and the federal resources that are needed, not only to deal with the drug problems that the city is facing, but the unemployment issues as well.

BALDWIN: How do you respond to some of the critics saying, you know, one of the reasons why crime is high is because some of the Baltimore city police officers are less proactive?

PUGH: Well, I don't know that they're less proactive. What they have said is that, because we're looking at this -- that the eyes of America are on them, that they feel that the response -- that their response is not what it should be.

And I agree with the police commissioner and everyone else who hires police to work in our city that we need them to do their job. And so whatever that takes, in order for us to get them moving to do their jobs, whether it is the Justice Department coming in and helping them to understand how to proactively police in neighborhoods and in communities that are suffering from crime activities, then that's what needs to take place.

But we do need our police in communities to do their jobs. And at the same time, we need them to respect our communities, as our communities respect the police.

BALDWIN: State Senator Catherine Pugh, thank you so much in Baltimore today. Really appreciate it.

Coming up next, the Duggars breaking their silence, admitting their son molested four of his sisters. But despite thee different confessions, they refused to report it. Hear why and who they say made the real crime.

Plus, dozens of families leaving everything behind, as ISIS takes over this dam. And now the water is low enough for the terrorists to attack. We will take you there.

And Colorado on edge today, as fears are growing of a serial sniper after a third shooting. What do police think? Could they be linked? We will speak live with law enforcement there in Loveland, Colorado. Stay with me. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:12:49]

BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

The parents of "19 Kids and Counting" fame, Michelle and Jim Bob Duggar, they're speaking out. It's been two weeks since their family came under scrutiny for child sex abuse allegations here. And at the heart of this whole scandal, you have Josh Duggar, the oldest of the Duggar boys. A leaked police report shows he admitted to his parents as a young teenager that he had, in his own words, inappropriately touched four of his sisters and another young girl.

Those admissions came first in 2002, and then again one year later.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIM BOB DUGGAR, FATHER: We thought, you know, at first that Josh, you know, was on the road to mend at first, but he was still a kid. And he was still a juvenile. He wasn't an adult. And so there was a couple more times that he came and told us what he had done. And we were just devastated. Now, all these -- again, this was not rape or anything like that. This was, like, touching somebody over their clothes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: The Duggars last night choosing their words very carefully.

I want to bring in human behavior expert Wendy Walsh and Julianna Araujo, a survivor of sex abuse as a child.

So, ladies, welcome to both of you.

And, Julianna, let me begin with you, as you were affected by this, this is personal for you. When you hear Josh's father say, this was not rape or anything like that, what's your reaction?

JULIANNA ARAUJO, SEX ABUSE SURVIVOR: Well, my first reaction is to it, there was no consent whatsoever. So, therefore, when he went into the bedroom without -- while they were sleeping, that's not consent. So therefore, you can't say that they weren't affected by that.

And I think what upsets me as a victim is that you're minimizing -- you're minimizing pretty much what those children had went through. And you don't necessarily know if they were in a deep sleep where they never saw them. So I think that's what infuriates me, is that there was no consent whatsoever.

BALDWIN: And you're the second person, Julianna, to mention the M- word, minimizing.

Wendy, I understand that this is sort of a common thread in cases like these, especially when it's familial sex abuse. And ten to hear the parents, you know, talking about when Josh first came to them at the time he was 14, they were shocked, trauma, tears -- quote -- "It was a ray of hope that Josh had a tender conscience."

[15:15:15]

How do you hear the parents?

WENDY WALSH, FAMILY THERAPIST: Well, I'm surprised. Why were they shocked?

I mean, they have openly talked about repressing sexually their children, not allowing them to even hold hands while they're dating, not allowed to kiss until after marriage.

BALDWIN: Right.

WALSH: This natural human sexual development happens. It happens anyway. And if you suppress it, then it takes these dark and seedy channels.

So that's the first thing. Minimizing -- you know, I have got to be -- I'm not siding with the Duggars, nor am I ever trying to diminish the possible injury to these victims, but 90 percent of American families, if this happened with their 14-year-old son, the last thing they'd do is call the police.

However, they should have definitely reached out for counseling for the victims and for their son right away, not until he reported the third time. Like, the first time, let's get this straight. And then they would have learned about how to have healthy conversations about sexuality with their kids.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Go ahead, Julianna.

ARAUJO: The whole interview, though, they're addressing -- addressing Josh and how they're fixing Josh and how he went through counseling. It wasn't until the end of the interview where they finally addressed that the victims, the entire family received counseling.

And I think that that's a problem because it is, for victims, especially myself, it's always about, oh, the offender, the offender. The victims live with this on for the entire lives. It's not just something that goes away overnight and is a constant process.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Yes. And that's a point too.

It seemed to be a lot of focus and defensiveness on Josh and less about protecting these young women and these victims. Something else I noticed, and I love to hear both of you, when you hear also from these two sisters, they said -- yes, they're also defending their brother. They're saying this wasn't rape. They don't like their hearing their brother being called a molester. Yet they called themselves victims, but they called themselves victims not in reference to this abuse, but because of this magazine, "In Touch" magazine, who illegally released these reports, Wendy.

And to be called -- to self-reference as victims in regard to that, I found that -- I found that surprising.

WALSH: Well, let's face it. We don't know the extent to how this sexual abuse affected them psychologically. It may have been something, a small kind of injury, or it may have been quite substantial that will affect their relationships for the rest of their lives. We don't know the answer to that.

BALDWIN: Right.

WALSH: However, we do know that when the media gets involved in private family matters, it's never a good thing for kids, never a good thing for teenagers.

And I understand the family wanting to protect their family. Unfortunately, they put themselves in the limelight, so that sets them up as kind of a target.

BALDWIN: Can you understand, Julianna, wanting to be a little defensive of a family member, or not at all?

ARAUJO: Oh, no, I can definitely see that. And with my experience myself, my stepfather was the one that sexually abused me. And my mother defended him. And the reason she defended him was because they have a child together. And she wanted to protect my sister, who was now growing up, and she didn't want her to experience having a father in jail and having her father not present.

But, in reality, what that is doing is, you're being submissive now to that male. And what she's doing is telling her that pretty much it is OK. And it's not OK. And I think that's what's the problem. Yes, I understand being defensive for your family, but then it's a token, too. You have got to teach your daughter to be strong and know that good touch and bad touch, like they had mentioned in the interview, and what is good and wrong.

BALDWIN: What would you -- final question back to you, Julianna. What would you say if you had these two young women, these two sisters sitting next to you? What would you say?

ARAUJO: If I had both of them with me, I think it would be more of a dialogue of what services have been given to them. What have they done? And what has been part of their healing process? And a lot of victims say, oh, you know, I'm OK, it happened so many years ago.

And that's -- it's going to come back and haunt you, until you bring awareness to it, until you realize that that's not OK. It's not OK for a man to touch you without your consent. And I would want them to understand what that means, because that's important. You are in charge of yourself and your body. And it is up to you, not what everybody else is telling you.

BALDWIN: Julianna, I admire your strength. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story. ARAUJO: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Thank you.

Wendy Walsh, as always, thank very much.

I do, speaking of help, want to give out this number. Help is available 24/7 through the National Sexual Assault Hotline and online at RAINN -- that's two N's -- RAINN.org.

Next, is a serial sniper at large in Northern Colorado? This task force now focusing on a new victim not too far from these two other mysterious shootings. We will get an update there.

[15:20:12]

Plus, dozens of families leaving everything they own behind, as ISIS has taken over this dam. And now the water level is low enough for the terrorists to attack.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: ISIS using water as a potential weapon of mass destruction. We have new video into CNN of Ramadi, where ISIS has shut the gates to this massive dam. You can see people roaming through. This is the Euphrates River, the riverbed already exposed in places.

The fear is this, that ISIS is not only trying to kill people of thirst downstream, that the river water level here is so low, that ISIS fighters can simply walk across and launch attacks on the riverside cities.

[15:25:05]

We're also getting reports right now that people are fleeing. And we will keep you updated on any developments there, as also that is the source of power in that country.

Meantime, we switch gears and talk female Viagra. This is what researchers and critics are calling the little pink pill that will increase women's desire for sex. The pill is actually called flibanserin. And today the FDA is debating, should they approve it? Today's hearing is the third time the drug has been up for debate. So what's the holdup? Here's the deal.

Opponents argue that the drug is creating a medical problem where none exists. They also say this is just another pharmaceutical company trying to make a million.

Joining me more to discuss, I have Dr. Judy Kuriansky, a clinical psychologist and certified sex therapist. And I also have Dr. Elizabeth Kavaler, a urologist from Lenox Hill Hospital.

So, ladies, welcome.

DR. JUDY KURIANSKY, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes. BALDWIN: We're going there. We're going there.

I first want to begin with the woman who's part of this whole clinical trial. She testified today as part of all of this on Capitol Hill. And she said it was a drug that saved her marriage. Roll it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AMANDA PARRISH, TRIAL SUBJECT: A silent wall of shame grew between us, shame of guilt on my part for not wanting to have sex with a man whom I loved, and hurt on his part wondering what he was doing wrong. Often pretending to be asleep before he came to bed, we suffered separately in silence, seriously threatening our relationship.

I was fortunate to be enrolled in the clinical trial for flibanserin, and what a relationship-saving eight months that was. As if the light switch had been turned on, so was I. Once again sexually confident, I returned to the flirty and initiating woman Ben fell in love with.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: The light switch had been turned on, and so was I.

Dr. Judy, to you first. What is wrong with that?

KURIANSKY: Well, nothing.

I have been a sex therapist for many years. I was a protege of Masters and Johnson, the grandfather and grandmother of sex therapy.

BALDWIN: There you go.

KURIANSKY: And I have heard these stories for now, how many years, 40 years or so.

BALDWIN: Of issues.

KURIANSKY: Women are suffering from not being turned on, because women's sexuality is very complicated. It's not just a matter of taking that pill, by the way, and then all the sudden the lights go on. You have to feel good about your body, you have to feel good about yourself.

BALDWIN: We're complicated.

KURIANSKY: You have to feel the guy really loves you.

Yes, it's complex. It's not the same as a man taking a pill, blood rushes in, wow.

BALDWIN: On that, that's where I wanted to turn to you, because I think it's...

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: And cue you, because that's where it's a very important distinction. One, this little pink pill, as it's being called, is more of an antidepressant, right, increase dopamine, decreases serotonin, whereas, Viagra, it's like, bada bing, bada boom, it's physical.

DR. ELIZABETH KAVALER, LENOX HILL HOSPITAL: Right.

So the most important thing to recognize -- there are two issues related to this. Number one is that this is not going to correct relationship problems.

KURIANSKY: That's right.

(CROSSTALK)

KAVALER: It's not going to make you have a...

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Neither will Viagra, by the way.

KAVALER: Right.

KURIANSKY: Right.

KAVALER: Exactly.

The second is that it is opening up the discussion about female sexuality and women's sexuality. So, Bruce Jenner coming out is opening up the whole -- the whole thing about transgender. And now we can talk about women's sexual function. These are vehicles or ways in which we can start to communicate about issues relating...

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: But do you think this little pink pill is a good thing?

KAVALER: I think it's a good thing in certain, very specific situations.

We don't really understand female sexual dysfunction, whatever that term means. It is actually in psychiatric literature. It's not part of the medical literature at this point. So, will a pink pill make women's sex lives and make them more sexual? I doubt it. It's not Ecstasy. It's not going to make you want to have sex with everybody around.

But it is maybe a step in the right direction to trying to understand the complexities of women's sexuality.

(CROSSTALK)

KURIANSKY: As a sex therapist who's dealt with women and sitting there with the woman alone or with the couple, it's the beginning, I think, where the real essence is, does a woman feel good about herself? You have a low sex desire, the question that is being asked is, rate

yourself from one to five. How much do you feel that you have sexual desire? How much do you feel turned on? Then what does the woman say? Then you get an idea in your mind how much she feels she's suffering. If she's suffering, you have to pay attention.

And then you have got to get the partner into the discussion, because does he know how to please her? Does he listen to her? Does she know even what to please her? This is the number one thing we always said about women. Do you know how to turn yourself on, not a pill, not the guy, but you?

BALDWIN: Right. Point taken.

Here's the other thing though. People -- some women are saying, listen, there's gender bias. And men -- and, granted, we have discussed the pills are different. But if men have this pill, why can't the ladies have the pill as well? I want you all to watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS: So it's just you and your lady. The setting, it's magical. But then erectile dysfunction comes knocking again. But, lucky for you, you have countless medication options that will make you just as randy as a teenager.

Too bad your lady doesn't have any. Even though more women than men suffer from sexual dysfunction, there isn't one available medication on the market.

(END VIDEO CLIP)