Return to Transcripts main page

LEGAL VIEW WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD

Fallout From Dennis Hastert's Federal Indictment; Caitlyn Jenner Reveal In "Vanity Fair"; Jury In James Holmes' Trial To Decide If He Was Legally Insane At Time Of Mass Shooting. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired June 1, 2015 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[12:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN HOST: The fallout from Dennis Hastert federal indictment has been nothing short of breathtaking in (inaudible) his Alma matter Wheaton College in Suburban Chicago yesterday made the decision to drop the former house speaker's name from it's government and economic center which was named for Hastert more than seven years ago.

These just days after a puzzling I mean to say the least puzzling seven page indictment accusing Dennis Hastert of lying to the FBI about $1.7 million in hush money that was paid to a mysterious so called "Individual A."

While strongly hinting of a deeper scandal, what's not clear is why the feds went after Hastert in the first place. Is there more to this prosecution beneath the eye or is it just about money and taking it out to the bank and, you know, bad patterns.

I want to bring in our expert CNN Legal Analyst Danny Cevallos, is back with me and HLN Legal Analyst Joey Jackson back with me as well.

So just to be really clear no one is charging Dennis Hastert with any kind of sex crime. But the fed have told CNN that this does have to do with sex that the alligations against him with regard to the money he took out in chunks to pay, two individually A, how to do a sex with a male that he knew when he was a teacher.

So just with that in mind why would there not be an extortion charge?

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: That is a very good question. And I think the answer is, is that, prosecutors have an overwhelming amount of discretion. And the discretion is, in just backing up a little bit understanding that this apparently from the indictment says that in 2010 there was some underlying agreement between Dennis Hastert and Individual A.

And that underlying agreement was for $3.5 million. And that underlying agreement said that listen in the event that you pay me $3.5, you know, what the prime misconduct allegedly relating to sexual abuse of a minor the male, individual A will be kept secret.

And so you can make the argument certainly that coming to some and coercing them to say "I'll be quite if you pay me its extortion." The issue in terms of prosecuting that person is up to the federal government as to whether they feel A it's extortion and B it's should be something in the interest of justice that should be pursued.

BANFIELD: And a lot of people Danny been asking me even bigger question. If there was a sexual misconduct that, you know, big alleged in the background information that were being told by the investigators the federal investigators.

Well would you not think that that would lead to a charge of sexual misconduct with a minor, thinking that this was be somebody who might be a minor because he was in the school at the time or he was known to well he was at the school.

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, however number one you may have statutes of limitations issues. Number two you may have proof issues it's very difficult to collect evidence in cases like that many years after the fact.

But one thing that is very easy to do right away is an indictment like this one. This is why the federal government is so breathtakingly good at prosecuting defendants.

This is a very typical maneuver, they investigate someone like Hastert, they find out things and they go to talk to him already knowing these things and expecting that he will do what all of us tried to do. Explain our way out of trouble.

[12:35:10] The problem is, the instant that you tell a fib to a federal agent you have committed a separate and independent crime that they can use to hang over your head like the Sword of Damocles. And that maybe exactly what they're doing here often that crime is use not as a -- the chief crime but as a wedge, as a crowbar to get out of you maybe what they really want.

BANFIELD: Hey guys I got to wrap it there, I've got other breaking news that's happening.

Danny and Joey thank you for that we're going to watch the case, see if we get other informations not so far in the indictment but, you know, what the journal still turning up a lot of stuff. But thank you for that.

We have this just into CNN Vanity Fair has sent out its upcoming magazine cover, wow. The magazine headline "Call me Caitlyn." It's referring to Caitlyn Jenner formerly Bruce Jenner.

Take a close look. Remarkable. I'm going to talk about this in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: So this is a -- some pretty remarkable breaking news that Vanity Fair has just sent out. I think they kept this under really good wrap. The headline they're putting on their front cover is "Call Me Caitlyn." [12:40:05] And the picture is of a stunning woman. This woman Caitlyn is formerly known as Bruce Jenner the decathlete Olympian, the famous American sports legend, who has very publicly undergone transgender, you know, a public transformation.

Caitlyn is now officially the name that she has chosen to use.

I feel like I've been living under Iraq, because I watch the ABC interview--

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Right.

BANFIELD: -- Brian Stelter our Senior Media Correspondent is me now. I watched the ABC interview. I was absolutely spellbound by--

STELTER: Yeah, it was remarkable.

BANFIELD: -- the choices that, at that time, Bruce Jenner was talking about.

STELTER: Yeah.

BANFIELD: But I have no idea this was coming.

STELTER: And remember that in April, on that interview, Bruce Jenner said identifying me as a man for now.

BANFIELD: Yeah.

STELTER: This is all part of a process. And if we think of that interview as the first step in the process is magazine cover is the next step in that process by now identifying as a woman publicly for the first time and identifying the name "Caitlyn," she's asking the media at this point now lets take Caitlyn as well, asking family and friends and the world really to say "Caitlyn."

And the next step will be on eve (ph). There's a really show in July.

So you can think of that as the next step in this public transformation in addition to what is obviously a very private process as well.

BANFIELD: But then so, I think this is the biggest issue for a lot of people watching is that, look, there is -- this is one of the most difficult thing for a transgender person to do to come out as he or she really is and has been since birth--

STELTER: Right.

BANFIELD: -- so the identity they feel, they know, they are as supposed to living something they just don't understand.

STELTER: Yeah.

BANFIELD: And so, it's very private for some people. And I'm always wondering about the Jenner-Kardashian Clan because so much of what they do they maximize and they're doing it only for monetary reasons. But with Caitlyn, formerly Bruce, I wonder if how much of this altruistic and how much of this is just to keep the brand going for the Kardashian's and the money flowing in.

STELTER: Well remember, Bruce Jenner was asked that by Diane Sawyer in the interview and he laughed at that idea. Laugh at that idea that this was for a reality T.V. stunt. Talked about how all of his life he had felt he was a woman. And now, he can finally speak that way.

Now, with Caitlyn, you know, she talks in the magazine article written by Buzz Bissinger about feeling like she is now free. And also in the past few minutes, setup a Twitter account. What are you doing until this age? To set up a twitter account.

BANFIELD: Tell me what Caitlyn Jenner has been twitting.

STELTER: Here's the tweet that she wrote. She said "I'm so happy after such a long struggle to be living my true self. Welcome to the world Caitlyn," she writes to her self, "Can't wait for you to get to know her/me."

So -- just another step in that process, like I was saying, to set up a Twitter account.

You know, this idea of the magazine cover was rumored a few days ago, and Vanity Fair wouldn't confirm it. They put it out on Twitter kind of a splash a few minutes ago in order to surprise people.

But like I said it is the next step of that process. And to do it in such a full way, right, not just to say a name, but to show a new look, a new face, that's another big step. And it must a very--

BANFIELD: It reminds me of Chaz Bono. When Chaz Bono came out as a transgender male -- I watched Chastity Bono as a little girl on the Sonny and Cher show. And I remember how sweeping that was for America. But--

STELTER: Yeah.

BANFIELD: -- I'm wondering has this movement gained acceptability. I mean this is sort of a last fashion for people to be extremely discriminatory. People think nothing of making fun of transgender women or men when that would be unheard of that you were talking gay people who were made fun of 20 years ago.

STELTER: Well certainly, there's a feeling in the community, in the transgender community, that where gay and lesbian movement was 20 years ago is where transgender community is right now. That was the discussion we certainly heard on the Diane Sawyer interview.

And by the way, we should tell our viewers that interview was taped in February.

So even though there seems like a sudden change--

BANFIELD: -- everything. STELTER: We hadn't seen Bruce Jenner now Caitlyn Jenner in months.

BANFIELD: Can I just tell you that what she is wearing Donic Harron (ph). And has just tweeted out that, you know, Caitlyn Jenner is wearing Donic Harron (ph).

And then we have some other tweets that we want to tell about as well. Kendall Jenner has re-tweeted what her -- you know, it's hard to say about her father.

You know, we're using Kendall -- we're using Caitlyn's name because...

STELTER: -- You can see Kendall using a profile picture of her father, Bruce, yeah.

BANFIELD: And I supposed he's still say father even though that's masculine. But, you know, are standards, are we accept the name that whomever chooses--

STELTER: Right.

BANFIELD: -- to identify would we accept that as media standards.

STELTER: And certainly for me and for people like me, I've had to learn that the appropriate norms for that--

BANFIELD: Yup.

STELTER: -- groups like GLAAD and groups that worked with transgender individual say that is the preference of the individual to have the media refer to them the way they want to be referred to.

And that's why it was significant to Bruce Jenner back in April said refer to me as Bruce, refer to me as a man for now.

Well now by coming out and saying, "Caitlyn," that does instigate a change.

But that's why, I think, it's an educational moment, I mean, for whole country and the whole world.

BANFIELD: Kim Kardashian, I mean, she had her big news that she is pregnant again.

STELTER: Right. She announced that last night.

BANFIELD: Is she retweeting it?

STELTER: I haven't seen that, but they've got plenty of time to do it. And like I said that reality show in July will be the next moment. You know, its entertainment news.

BANFIELD: Yeah.

STELTER: And it is also a historic moment for the transgender community. BANFIELD: I think it's big cultural--

STELTER: And that's -- the moments underscore I think.

BANFIELD: You're right. This is a very big moment.

[12:45:02] STELTER: Because it creates conversations the people might not have wanted to have because now, they know someone--

BANFIELD: Now you know.

STELTER: -- who is transgender and that person is going to be on the magazine news then all across the country.

BANFIELD: By the way stunning picture, just absolutely stunning. Annie Leibowitz, you know, works her magic again.

STELTER: Yeah.

BANFIELD: Very quick of you to jump on this set and do this. We were all little taken in the back and we didn't realize this was coming, so thank you--

STELTER: Yeah, a beautiful photo. Thanks.

BANFIELD: -- Brian Stelter, the picture. All right, thank you.

OK. So we've got this other piece of work that we have for you and it is the jury in the theater shooting trial seeing these psychological examinations of the gunman, James Holmes. Imagine what they're hearing from the experts of the mind at a time when they know the decisions they have to make is was that killer insane or not.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: The jury in the James Holmes' trial has a very tough call to make. Was that man legally insane at the time he just opened fire in a crowded movie theater in Colorado killing 12 people, injuring 70 more?

The alleged mass murderer has pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity.

But the prosecutors have something else to say. They say that a video tape mental evaluation proves that Mr. Holmes knew exactly what he was doing and that he knew it was wrong and did it anyway.

CNN's Ana Cabrera joins me live now from Centennial, Colorado.

This is the part of an evidentiary trial that I'm most fascinated with because it is all about his state of mind. It's the moment he opened fire. It's not just did he open fire. It's just stated (ph) why he did it.

[12:50:09] What did the mental health expert say today in court? ANA CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we've been listening to hours of this mental health evaluation that was video taped, that happened last year with Dr. William Reid in the States Mental Health Institute. And we just heard that Holmes say, that he on a mission on that day in July 2012.

His mission was to shoot as many people as possible at that theater. And that he pick the Batman movie specifically because he knew it would be a blockbuster hit, with lots of people inside. But why does he want to do this?

We'll he tells the psychologist -- the psychiatrist that he was feeling really down that he had been depressed then he thought that this would help him a greater sense of self worth.

Now as back in July of 2012 and the weeks leading up to it. He was feeling so depressed from breaking up with his girlfriend that he started having homicidal thoughts. And began plotting this attack acquiring weapons, acquiring ammunition, he changed his hairstyle and hair color to that bright red orange. And then he took pictures of himself holding weapons with his new hairstyle and posted them on adult dating website saying, he wanted to be remembered.

But he says, after the shooting the media got him wrong at the media was biased. And I want you to listen closely, because here is where he talks about mental illness, it's a little bit confusing, so listen very carefully.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What sorts of things in general they did wrong or wouldn't me, as being biased about.

JAMES HOLMES: Yeah, and I'm sure.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Especially from, what -- I know it was two years ago. But it was a real dictating (ph) in your life (inaudible).

HOLMES: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So and you just said it because that's wrong and they were promised, by arresting what's in general, is they got wrong, I put in mind of advice

HOLMES: Well again, take it from my perspective, I don't know than to owe a respect.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes they have, if what was the federal report, what would they even say?

HOLMES: Kind of psychological reasons for why that happened--

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: So he said they were psychological reasons for why it happened and the defense argues Holmes with mentally ill that he had completely lost touch with reality, just before the shooting. But the doctor, Dr. William Reid says, We'll he agrees that Holmes does suffer for mental illness, it was not enough to prevent him from knowing what right from wrong so essentially the doctor called the jury, he believes Holmes was legally sane, at the time of the shooting Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: I expected nothing less than a prosecutions case. But of course it will be the battle of the experts in the defense will get it shot to put it experts up there too, Ana you'll have to continue the story with us, with another day. Ana Cabrera reporting focused live at Colorado.

So 35 years ago, today, very important business man in Atlanta, Atlanta made a speech, somebody threw a switch. And I dare to say the world have never been the same because today, this network CNN turns 35 years old.

And when we come back, I'm going to bring you some of the moments that you saw first here on the words most important news network.

(COMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:57:14] BANFIELD: Actor and comedian Tracy Morgan broke his silence today, almost one year after a Walmart truck slammed into his limo severely injuring that very rock star and two others as we'll and killing one of his comedy writers.

He spoke on the today's show about seeing YouTube video of the crash and then the lost of his colleague.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRACY MORGAN, COMEDIAN: Everyday I will just watch the accident on YouTube. And one day I came across the stream on YouTube and I just-- I lost it for about a week.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of wouldn't have wanted to go to YouTube and see that, why was it important for you to go see that.

MORGAN: Because I got to know what happened to my friend.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Morgan recently settled his lawsuit against Walmart over the crash and the details of that settlement remains confidential, but it is so good so see him back up and eating, so worried for so long.

On this day, 35 years ago a landmark moment for television and journalism and I dare say for the world, because that was the day June 1st 1980 that CNN went on the air for the first time.

And for the anniversary we're taking a look back at some of the biggest stories that we at this network have covered. And we're telling them through personal accounts of the people who brought you those stories.

One of which was the tragedy of September 11.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I saw a plane crashing into--

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Which was described to me the size of 7/47--

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have unconfirmed reports this morning that a plane has crushed into one of the towers of the World Trade Center.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Big thing and then we saw a smoke coming out and everybody starting running out.

AARON BROWN, FORMER CNN ANCHOR: My producer calls, saying he's in the radio, I said "No," he said "you should."

He said a plane is crashed into the World Trade Center.

I didn't know, it was a big plane or small plane, it was an accident, it was deliberate.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But when the second plane hit the south tower, I think we all new, it's the act of terrorist.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I started driving towards the bureau, I can see people in Washington were driving the other way, people trying to get out of Washington, people were freaking out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At the Pentagon a plane or a helicopter has crashed. And the Pentagon is being evacuated.

LARRY KING, FORMER CNN HOST: Ted also was a friend of mine. And his wife died on that plane that hit the pentagon.

[12:59:58] And she called him before they hit the Pentagon on her cellphone. And he had to tell her that the two buildings had been hit in New York. And they said good-bye to each other. She knew they were going down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Our CNN special report, BREAKING NEWS: 35 YEARS OF CNN, airs tonight at 9:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific. Thank you, everyone, for watching. My colleague, Wolf Blitzer, who you just saw, starts live right now.