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DR. DREW

Farewell To Bruce Jenner And Hello To Caitlyn, Revealed Now On The Cover Of "Vanity Fair"; An 8-Month-Month Pregnant Woman Abused By Police; Tracy Morgan Goes Public For The First Time After He Was Nearly Killed In An Automobile Accident

Aired June 1, 2015 - 21:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(21:00:12) DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Tonight, say farewell to Bruce Jenner and hello to Caitlyn, revealed now on the cover of "Vanity Fair."

Plus was a pregnant woman abused by police.

And, Tracy Morgan goes public for the first time after he was nearly killed in an automobile accident. Let us get started with the "Top of the Feed."

Take a look behind the scenes of the photo shoot that said "Farewell to Bruce Jenner" and revealed Caitlyn. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRUCE JENNER, NOW AS CAITLYN JENNER ON "VANITY FAIR" COVER: The last few days of doing this shoot was about my life and who I am as a person. It is

not about the fanfare. It is not about people cheering in the stadium. It is not about going down the street and everybody getting me an "Atta boy

Bruce," pat on the back. OK? This is about your life.

Bruce always had to tell a lie. He was always living that lie. Every day, he always had a secret from morning till night. Caitlyn does not have any

secrets. As soon as the "Vanity Fair" cover comes out, I am free.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Joining me to discuss, Erica America, Radio host, psychotherapist; Mike Catherwood, my "Love Line" and KABC radio co-host, and Vanessa

Barnett, Hiphollywood.com. Erica, we have yet to have you on our set here with the audience. I do not know what --

ERICA AMERICA, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: It is great to be here.

PINSKY: Yes. It is great to have you. What are your thoughts on this?

AMERICA: #ObsessedWithCaitlyn. Let me just say that.

PINSKY: OK.

AMERICA: She looks beautiful. I was so happy to begin with that he was finding his truth coming into his own and really becoming who his inner

person was meant to me. But then when I saw that cover, OMG! I mean that is fabulous.

I mean, Caitlyn is on fleek. Come on, right now. She looks incredible. And, not only that. He is helping so many young people. I mean the

suicide rate for people who are transgender is so high and --

PINSKY: It is high --

AMERICA: And, this public --

PINSKY: It is high, Erica. Listen.

AMERICA: OK.

PINSKY: I am with you on all that.

AMERICA: OK.

PINSKY: It is easy to say that, the media is flooded with people saying things like that, but you bring up the suicidality. And, that actually is

my concern, because some of the studies have shown that after the surgeries, the suicide rate goes up.

This is a public event. She was involved in a motor vehicle accident where there was a fatality. There was report in the "Vanity Fair" article, that

a couple weeks ago when he first reported this, he became suicidal. I am worried suicidality could be part of this story.

AMERICA: Well, my concern is definitely that he is in treatment. He is in counseling.

PINSKY: Hopefully.

AMERICA: And, he is getting it from beginning to end till, you know, for a long time. Because that is absolutely needed, especially when someone is

transitioning, because it is a huge life change. I mean it is so monumental.

PINSKY: And, think about doing it with all these people watching.

VANESSA BARNETT, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Exactly.

PINSKY: People like Vanessa are out there. Vanessa, you are not listening but you are not alone. There are a lot of people that are not so kind to

this whole thing.

BARNETT: Right, and I am kind. I do not want to be lumped with the not kind --

PINSKY: Well, that is a harsh thing --

BARNETT: -- But, you know, there are people will never understand it --

PINSKY: -- people called you phobic, just asking questions about it.

BARNETT: They definitely call me phobic because I had questions. I do not understand it. I do not know -- I will never know what it is to not feel

like myself. I do not understand that, and that is OK. It does not make me phobic. It does not make me scared. It makes me inquisitive to know

more about it.

But with all these cameras on him, I do not think that can be a helpful situation. When he did in that article in "Vanity Fair" said that he had a

moment like "Oh, crap! What the hell did I just do?" He really had a moment when he had the facial surgery. It was 10 hours of facial surgery

and he woke up and he was traumatized almost.

PINSKY: So, he questioned whether he was going down the right road.

BARNETT: Right.

PINSKY: And, Mike, you and I did two hours of radio today were people were unkind, frankly.

MIKE CATHERWOOD, CO-HOST OF "LOVE LINE": Yes. They were.

PINSKY: He is going to face -- She is going to face all that, too.

CATHERWOOD: I agree. And, also my question is, what does the LBGT community now think about Caitlyn`s personal struggle? Because if I am a

poor or unsupported young man or woman that wants to transition, you are not going to be given or afforded a lot of luxuries that Caitlyn is going

to be forwarded. I wonder if there is going to be some bitterness or anger, you know, in the backlash

PINSK: Well, I feel very inadequate talking about this topic. And, I always want to go to people who are transgender to talk about it. In the

audience tonight, I got Aurora Persichetti. She is a transgender YouTuber.

And, where are you? -- there you are. So, you hear the conversation up here. I am wanting your reaction, not only to what we are saying here but

also when you first saw the cover.

AURORA PERSICHETTI, TRANSGENDER YOUTUBER: Oh my gosh! I -- just like your reaction. I was like, "Oh, my gosh! She is beautiful." And, I completely

understand why she would feel dysphoric or depressed after the surgery because --

PINSKY: Why?

PERSICHETTI: The recovery is just --

PINSKY: So, "What have I done?"

PERSICHETTI: -- very traumatizing.

PINSKY: Yes.

PERSICHETTI: Because you are really swollen. And, you do not look like yourself for a while. And, I personally have not had any type of facial

feminization surgery yet.

(21:05:00) I am thinking about it in the future. But, the struggle with coming out on a public stand like she did, I could not imagine. It was

hard enough for me and my transgender brother as well to both come out.

PINSKY: And, you were the other -- you were sister/brother, and now you are brother/sister.

PERSICHETTI: Yes. Yes.

(LAUGHING)

PINSKY: OK.

PERSICHETTI: Right.

PINSKY: And, It is hard for anyone. Right? It is a tough one -- Now, he got the advantage of a family that is supportive.

PERSICHETTI: Yes.

PINSKY: At least, she got that. But, do you understand why I am concerned about suicidality.

PERSICHETTI: Absolutely.

PINSKY: I mean the recent fatal car accident, having been suicidal. You know, the medication that can cause depression.

PERSICHETTI: Right.

PINSKY: There is so much going on here.

PERSICHETTI: Exactly.

PINSKY: And, people are harsh. People are harsh, Erica.

BARNETT: And, you brought up family. And, I am also concerned about his family. He has, you know -- he has kids. He has multiple kids and they

are dealing with this as well. I just feel like it is a lot of spotlight on people that may not be ready for a lot of spotlight.

AMERICA: I still think overall this is a positive thing. And, it is a positive --

PINSKY: For her or for transgender community?

AMERICA: For the transgender community.

PINSKY: Hold on. Aurora, you agree?

PERSICHETTI: I do.

AMERICA: I think it is, because you know what?

PINSKY: I do too. I do too.

AMERICA: Because he was a loved, you know, persona in the sports world for so long. People feel like they know him. And, then to say, "Wow! Someone

we know is transgender." It is like we know them. And, now a transgender person is part of their family.

And, it is a family name and they can accept it for the people who have not before. And, I just wanted to say you are beautiful and. And, you know, I

am just happy to have you here on the show.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

PERSICHETTI: Thank you.

PINSKY: Well, let us bring in people with a slightly different point of view which is -- via Skype. I got Janet Boynes. She was lesbian. She now

counsels people struggling with sexual orientation. And, you believe that transitioning is not a good thing or not the right choice.

JANET BOYNES, FORMER LESBIAN: Hi, Dr. Drew. Thanks for having me on again.

PINSKY: You bet.

BOYNES: You know, let me say this. First of all, regardless of his sexual orientation or anyone`s sexual orientation, we all have value and God loves

each and every one of us. I am not here to dispute, you know, what Bruce feels or what he does not feel.

But if we all acted out of our impulses, our thoughts and our desires, this world would be more chaotic than what it is. I do not support his impulses

and his choices. You cannot change something you never created. God created him as a man and in the middle of it he is trying to say that he

does not like what God created.

PINSKY: Did you hear his explanation about how God was sort of giving him a challenge, giving him everything except making her uncomfortable in his

body? Remember that when she explained to Diane Sawyer?

BOYNES: What he is saying is that God made a mistake with me. When he was in his mother`s womb and his mother asked the doctor, "Hey, what do I have

a boy or a girl?" And, the doctor says, "You have a boy." I am sure his mother was excited.

At the age of 0 or at the age of 1, Bruce Jenner never thought in his whole life that he would transition into a woman. You think about these kids.

That is traumatizing. You have young Jenners. You have the Kardashian kids who are going through a lot.

When the kardashian`s father died, he asked Bruce Jenner to take care of his kids. He said he would be a father. Now, where is the father? It is

gone. I think it is very important that kids have a father and a mother. They no longer have that.

PINSKY: Janet, I am getting interrupted. I got to take a break. But, I will give Aurora the last word before I do.

PERSICHETTI: I just wanted to say that I believe that everybody is born the way they are supposed to be throughout their whole life. Everybody is

born with -- the transgender community is born with the soul that they identify as.

And, like Caitlyn Jenner said in the interview, she was born with the soul of a woman. So, god made her exactly this way. And, if I can add

something, it is more expression. You know, you wear your hair a certain way every day. You dress the way you want to dress. For me it was a

matter of finally expressing what I always felt, you know.

It did not matter even -- I still -- I am -- I was born a woman. I will always have that body and I am proud of it. But, it is a matter of

expressing what you actually feel inside and seeing that person in the mirror and being like, "Oh, that is who I want people to see me as.

PINSKY: All right, we are going to keep this conversation going. And, later -- (APPLAUSE) hold on now. And, later on, I got a woman eight months

pregnant thrown to the ground during an arrest. And, the question is, did these police officers go too far? There she is. And, we are back after

this.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

(21:09:31) (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(21:13:34) BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: He was American Olympian, formerly known as Bruce Jenner.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KIM KARDASHIAN, BRUCE JENNER`S STEPDAUGHTER: It was almost a relief that it came out and he was so honest and people were so accepting. I think he

is just so happy that people really do accept him so much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KIMBERLY REED, TRANSGENDER FILMMAKE: When you go from being somebody who has secrets, that has this big mystery about yourself that you do not want

anybody to find out, it is enormously liberating to just say, "you know what, this is who I am."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFED MALE SPEAKER: She looks so free and happy and to be honest I have not ever seen previously Bruce, but now Caitlyn, look so comfortable

in her own skin. I think that is really what she is trying to put out here, right? Is that, "Listen, there are no more secrets she says."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: I am back with Erica, Mike and Vanessa. And, I am just watching my Twitter feed as we go through the show here today. And, Austin says,

"Could you please tell your guests to use the proper pronoun when talking about Caitlyn Jenner."

It is hard. We are trying. That is why I bring transgender people in. We do not have any business speaking on behalf of the transgender community.

And, we are trying to keep to pronoun right. I have trouble when I talk about the car accident.

Because when he was in the car accident, because I believe it was Bruce who was in the car accident. But, Caitlyn is still burying the burden of

having been in a fatal car accident during her transition. But, Mike you have a point to make.

CATHERWOOD: Well, I just find it very insulting that regardless of your religious belief you think it is OK to impose your ideas about what is

proper and what is OK. You know, if you feel because of your religious beliefs --

(21:15:05) PINSKY: Are you commenting to Janet`s points?

CATHERWOOD: Yes. It does not --

PINSKY: Janet is on Skype.

CATHERWOOD: OK.

PINSKY: Let us bring her back in. Go ahead, Mike.

CATHERWOOD: And, Janet, you know, listen. I am respectful -- I have full respect of your religious beliefs. And, if you choose to believe that way,

that is your take. But what makes it OK for you to then impose that idea on Caitlyn Jenner?

You know, the contrary would be him living his life in a torturous state, him not living his life in complete comfort and, you know, you brought up

his children. I am pretty sure that his children want what is best for Caitlyn. Not necessarily what best for --

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

BOYNES: You know what? Let me jump in.

PINSKY: Please, go ahead.

BOYNES: Let me jump in here.

PINSKY: Janet, go ahead.

BOYNES: Everybody wants what is best for Bruce. But, Bruce right now, my personal opinion, he is broken. We are all broken but when you are living

a lie and when your kids see you late at night dressing as a transgender, he lived a lie his whole life, through his whole marriage.

CATHERWOOD: Now, he can be honest. Now, he can be honest --

BOYNES: No. Let me finish. Let me finish.

CATHERWOOD: -- not only with his own identity could be identified with.

BOYNES: Let me finish. Let me finish.

PINSKY: Wait. Wait. Janet, finish.

BOYNES: Let me just finish.

PINSKY: Please.

BOYNES: Will you let me finish, please.

CATHERWOOD: Yes.

PINSKY: Yes. Go.

BOYNES: So, when you live a lie for so long and you practice something for a very long time, you become that. He practiced being a woman for a very

long time. He is no longer a father to these kids. He wants to be just like his daughters, which is a female. So, they never really have a father

to go to.

The other thing, let me talk about beliefs. I am not pushing my beliefs on you. What is the gate community, transgender, bisexual -- You guys are

trying to silence us Christians, when you take God out of the equations, that is why we have so many problems that we have now, because you are

trying to take God out of his creation. You cannot do that.

PINSKY: Well, I personally taken God out of my life as a personal choice, which I have every right to do as an American --

BOYNES: Yes, you can.

CATHERWOOD: -- and it does not seem to affected me negatively, nor my family nor my daughter.

PINSKY: And, by the way --

CATHERWOOD: And, I do not think what gender he or she identifies with has any bearing on the quality -- the quality of his --

BOYNES: Obviously, it does affect you if you have taken God out of your like --

CATHERWOOD: Well, I know -- I understand. But, I kept God --

PINSKY: Hang on. Stop. Stop.

CATHERWOOD: But, I f I would have kept God in my life, would it have impacted me in any way?

PINSKY: Well, you have a spiritual life. And, you are recovering --

CATHERWOOD: Sure. Sure. Yes. I mean but I often think, it is dramatically insulting to say that his decision as a mid-60s human being

who is thought about this for decades to call that impulsive? It is not as if he just went out and bought a new car.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

PINSKY: Hold on. Hang on.

BOYNES: And, in his mid-life he decides that he wants to transition. You talk about suicides. That is really confusing to this next generation. We

are confusing them saying that, "If you do not like who you are, you can become whatever you want." And, that is not what God originated for him.

PINSKY: OK. Let us get something from the audience here. Go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Hi guys.

PINSKY: Hi.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: I am a firm believer in feeling comfortable and beautiful in your own skin. I do not feel anybody should have to

change anything about their body parts to express how they feel. I feel that you can walk down the street and be a female and look masculine or you

can walk down the street and be a male and look feminine.

PINSKY: Hold your thought. I think you would agree with that, Aurora. But, whether or not you actually have any kind of surgical transformation

hence to be a very personal decision, right?

PERSICHETTI: Agree. And, not everybody is walking outside naked showing what they have. You know, they do that.

PINSKY: No. Just Mike.

PERSICHETTI: Exactly.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

PERSICHETTI: So, it is not like you are just expressing that. You are just expressing -- --

PINSKY: Agreed. Vanessa, I know you were trying to get something in here with --

BARNETT: I know people are taking offense to what I believe her name was --

PINSKY: Janet.

BARNETT: Janet. Yes, what she was saying. And, I understand she comes off a little harsh. But, I understand where she is coming from because she

is looking at it from the other side. And, so, yes, she is saying it is from a Christian standpoint.

But even if you take that out of it, you have a man that lived a life 65 years, he brought three wives into this. He brought 10 kids into this. He

now has grand kids. And, so, there are other --

PINSKY: But, she is -- Janet is saying that is the problem. She is saying that is bad.

BARNETT: Yes, I understand that this was hard for him. It was hard for him to come out. But, you got to understand too that he brought so many

other people in this and now he is affected other lives. And, so at 65, it is hard to understand why you want to tear down these lives and transform

your own. And, you are celebrating your moment, but these people are struggling, too.

PINSKY: And, Erica, in our world, what we have trouble with is that people are now in this conversation, it seems that people want to pathologize

transgender and gay.

AMERICA: Right.

PINSKY: That feels like what we are going with this.

AMERICA: Right.

PINSKY: And, there are certainly experts in this, do not consider these pathologies per se unless there is dysphoria associated with it.

AMERICA: Right. Right. If this is, you know, a part of who he is and something else that Janet was saying before, it sounded like she was

confusing gender and sex.

PINSKY: And, sexual orientation is a whole other conversation.

AMERICA: Right. So, he can be a great father figure and continue to be a father figure, you can call it whatever you want, a parental figure and be

a female right now.

PINSKY: Aurora, did you want to say something here? Oh, Sasha.

(21:20:00) SASHA PERSICHETTI, TRANSGENDER, AURORA`S SISTER: Girl, guy, man, woman, anything, it is not about that. Transgender is not about that.

That is why you see the death rate even after surgeries. It is only --

PINSKY: It goes up after surgery.

SASHA PERSICHETTI: No, it is all in your head constantly from when I was really little, when Aurora was little, even with any changes I have not

taken hormones. This is like exactly who I am, exactly how I was born.

But, my mind is what is the battle. And, that is battle that I am going to have my entire life. And, that is what we have to take away from God. I

am God. You are God. Everyone is beautiful. Everyone is beautiful. And, it is in your head. Nothing really matters, not what you are wearing. No

surgery will make you better.

CATHERWOOD: Tremendous point. Listen. Even if you believe in God, that is fine. But, God does not create man and woman. Got creates babies.

What makes you a man or a woman is how you behave. And, now I know plenty of guys out there that have their penis intact and dress like a man. They

dress like macho cowboys, but they are far from a man.

PINSKY: Question. Go ahead.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

PINSKY: Audience hang on. We have a limited time. Please go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: I am really for him, because when he is in the public --

PINSKY: She.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Or she. Sorry. I wish there was a unisex pronoun.

PINSKY: There is all kinds of stuff.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Just for people who do not want to like be sexism, you know?

PINSKY: Yes. I get it. I get it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: But, I feel like he is breaking boundaries.

PINSKY: She.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: She. Oh, my God! Smack me.

PINSKY: It is hard. I get it. Well, listen, I will put words to your mouth. She is allowing us to have these conversations.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Yes.

PINSKY: Janet can speak up and talk about it. There are people who believe like Janet do. I am surprised there are more -- Given what is in

our twitter feed, they are saying horrible stuff there. I am surprised we are not hearing more negative stuff from the audience.

Now, Janet is one perspective. There are many others that are negative, too. The press today -- thank you for your question. If you went on the

television today you would think that everybody is supportive of what Caitlyn is doing. And, there are many that are and there is no doubt in my

mind that it is going to be a good thing for the transgender community.

I believe it is going to be a good thing for former Bruce Jenner, but I am very concerned. This is a high stakes deal here for this human being.

And, if we do not -- whatever it is, keep positive thoughts, say your prayers for him, you are going to feel guilty one day, because this is a

really tough transition in public with a fatal car accident, on hormones with a family.

There are so many issues here. And, there is a lot of trolls out there, a lot of people that really are taking issue with it, some of it from a

religious perspective, some of it from a perspective that they just do not understand. When people do not understand something, they will attack it.

And, that adds to her stress.

Next up, a pregnant woman says she was roughed up by police. Were they just doing their jobs or they completely out of line? There is the video.

We are back with it after this.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(21:26:39)

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

PINSKY: Back with Erica, Mike, Vanessa. Loni Coombs joins us in the audience, former prosecutor, author of "You`re Perfect And Other Lies

Parents Tell." Loni, thanks for joining us. We -- this is a live, live, live show. And, we made a decision to go on with the Caitlyn Jenner story,

because there is so much going on here about that.

Let me just say this one thing. In addition to getting more opinions from our audience and hearing more about what people want to say about this,

there is another layer to this. I was talking, Erica, about the potential of living depression and what not.

He has said -- he said to Diane Sawyer, I am heterosexual male. I like heterosexual women. And, now he is going to become a woman and he is still

attracted to heterosexual women.

CATHERWOOD: Yes.

PINSKY: How is he going to get a heterosexual woman to sign on to this? He is rich. He is very rich.

AMERICA: Yes.

(LAUGHING)

PINSKY: Well, he is very rich.

AMERICA: There is probably in the dating site for that now.

CATHERWOOD: He will be fine.

PINSKY: But, still, that is very -- that is very -- it could be depressing if he cannot have a romantic relationship. The only -- would you agree

that the overwhelming probability is it is going to be mostly gay women that are going to be interested in her -- in Caitlyn, right?

AMERICA: Well, I do not know if you heard what I just said. But, I am like there is probably a dating site for that. There is probably a dating

app for that now. Like there is a tinder for that. I mean, at this point there is --

PINSKY: Well, to be fair, if he keeps his genitalia intact he might be more likely to be with a heterosexual female.

AMERICA: Right.

CATHERWOOD: Yes.

PINSKY: So, that maybe going to that decision.

AMERICA: Right. I mean, I think you know --

PINSKY: Vanessa is confused.

AMERICA: I am a little confused as well. Like I am just trying to wrap my head around it all, because I have to kind of, like slow it down, but I

think Mike has a point. Like he has a very, you know, high profile, people know him. I do not think it is going to be that difficult for him to meet

someone.

PINSKY: Really? A heterosexual female.

AMERICA: And, he is a celebrity. People love celebrities.

PINSKY: But --

BARNETT: I do not want to have sex with a penis with a lady face. Like, no!

AMERICA: But, people do it all the time.

PINSKY: How about no penis. It is just a lady. It is a lady penis. We really do not know.

BARNETT: No. In the article they have said he has not gone all the way.

PINSKY: Well, he has talked about he may go all the way. Let us say he does, then how you going to get --

BARNETT: I just -- And this is why people in the church -- God is not the author of confusion. This is not what he did. Whether you think he

creates baby boys, baby girls, at the end of the day, if that is the body he gave you and then you go and chop it off, it is very disturbing.

It is very -- it is hard to understand. But, it does not make people intolerant. It does not make us phobic. It makes us question it. Just

like Janet had issues with it. It does not make her a bad person for having those issues.

AMERICA: But, is not it just for the person who gets it done to deal with? Why do you have to --

BARNETT: It is for her to deal with, but if we are bringing her on asking her and she gives her opinion, she is not any less OK -- it is not any less

OK that she is --

AMERICA: So, why are you thinking about her genitals that way -- if you are not dating her, why do you need to know about her genitals?

BARNETT: She told bus her genitals. She told us about all of this. And, I applaud Caitlyn for opening up and giving her story, but then you have to

have the dialogue and you have to let people say what they want to say.

CATHERWOOD: I think -- Look, I think that Vanessa brings up something very important is that -- you know, we are so obsessive about commenting on

everything that goes on in pop culture.

PINSKY: Yes.

CATHERWOOD: And, even -- The "L" and the "G" in LGBT is much more kind of prominently talked about in social context.

PINSKY: They are hetero --

CATHERWOOD: But, the "T" right now is still widely mysterious.

PINSKY: It is confusing. Yes.

CATHERWOOD: And, I think that even the idea of, you know, most media having this at the forefront of their conversation is going to be a good

thing.

PINSKY: Good thing. I agree. Loni.

CATHERWOOD: You know?

LONI COOMBS, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Yes. I think Mike is right on that. I worked at the hate crimes unit in the L.A. DA`s office about 15 years ago.

And, you know, that is when the gay and lesbian community was starting to get some acceptance. But the transgender community had to deal with

violence and really horrible disaffirmation.

(21:30:00) PINSKY: What a crazy thing human beings have to take out violent and aggression.

COOMBS: Yes.

PINSKY: People, they do not understand it -- and by the way, people are suffering.

COOMBS: Because they do not understand -- and it scares them.

PINSKY: It scares them.

COOMBS: Yes.

PINSKY: So they should try to understand it, not become aggressive.

COOMBS: Right. And, somehow they feel like it is an affront to them, you know. When somebody comes up and they are different in a way, so they

actually would act out in violence. Now, we have come a long ways.

People are talking about this, but we still have a long ways to go, too. And, I came from a very religious background. And, so, all of this, a lot

of what Vanessa is saying, what you are born with, you do not want to disfigure the body that was given to you.

But, then, when you look at the victims, when they are victims in these situations or you talk to parents who have these children who at the age of

2 are saying, you know, "Where is my penis," or things like that. They are asking these questions. You have to say, there is something to it. We

need to understand it. We need to be more open to it.

PINSKY: All right. Let us keep getting questions from our audience. Thank you, Loni. But, Vanessa, you said that God is not the author of

confusion.

BARNETT: Yes.

PINSKY: This is a blooming chaotic mess, it just is. And, yes, humans have a special sort of way of approaching life that sometimes gets extra

super confusing. But, it is still that same world that God created.

BARNETT: That is us being confused. That is not him bringing down confusion on us. And, I get what Loni is saying, but I cannot take off my

skin color any more than anyone should be chopping off body parts in my opinion. The black community faces all kind of hate crimes every single

day. But, I do not go outside and try to change the color of my skin.

PINSKY: I am going to ask you a tough question. Is there something -- are we touching on something here about humans and hate, if they are scared or

do not understand, that is -- they get aggressive and this is the same phenomenon?

BARNETT: It very well may be. We have seen it time and time again.

PINSKY: It is horrible. That is the worst -- Is not that Christian to not do that I have to go to the audience. Go ahead. Yes, ma`am.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Hi, everybody. Thank you so much for allowing me to ask this question. And, Vanessa, I agree with you when you

said God is not the author of confusion. But, I have a question. I heard one of the guests talking about the inner person.

PINSKY: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Right? Who is to say that the inner person is not the enemy within sending messages to the person that scaring that

inner person, sending the wrong message --

PINSKY: So, it is another way of asking, people used to call it sin. We call it pathology or confusion or conflict and all that stuff. And,

experts have wronged in on that very issue.

AMERICA: Right. Well, that is why they usually do say that there needs to be significant therapy before someone, especially, makes the actual

transition because --

PINSKY: For that very reason.

AMERICA: Yes. If someone is having delusions or whatever it is and they do it and do not really want to have it, that could be -- the results could

be catastrophic. It would be horrible. So, someone really needs to know. And, in this case with Caitlyn, we know that he is known for years and

years and years that --

PINSKY: She.

AMERICA: Sorry. She -- She is known for years and years. And, I just wanted to say one other thing, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Yes. Very quick.

AMERICA: We have talked about this backstage. I am concerned about his youngest daughters and how they are going to react.

PINSKY: As Mike said, his children -- say it again --

CATHERWOOD: I would be more concerned about Tiga. I would be more concerned about the reality show. I could be more concerned about -- there

is a lot more of a threat and much more, in my opinion, traumatic to these young girls.

AMERICA: No, but --

PINSKY: Next up -- Erica, I got to told you there. Police and the pregnant woman, I am finally going to get to that story, where a woman and

this pregnant woman and the police are engaged in a confrontation. It is all caught on tape. We will get to it after this.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(21:37:29) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Police in Barstow, California respond to a dispute between two women in a school parking lot.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: She gets out of her car, comes over here, punches my winder -- throws something -- whatever that brown thing is --

she throws it -- she is screaming at me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE OFFICER: OK. Well, she said you threw something on her car.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: No, ain`t nobody throw nothing at her car. I have my daughter right there. My daughter was scared.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (voice-over): That woman is eight months pregnant. And, when she refuses to identify herself. This happens.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: I am pregnant. Please, I am pregnant. Please.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE OFFICER: So, why are you resisting then? Why are you resisting?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: The video from an officer`s body cam is now at the center of a national controversy. Why and how could this happen?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: No. No!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Wow. Time for a second we call "What The?!" We will show you the video that no one else has. It begins with the police arriving on the

scene, speaking with a school employee who then calls 911. Take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE MALE: What is going on, ma`am?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SCHOOL EMPLOYEE: I was right here. And, I had my blinker on to turn here. I work here. And, this lady up there, she is

standing up there -- she just totally comes hauling ass around me.

She stops, rolls down her window and she is like, "Who the hell you think you are honking at?" And, I said, "I am turning -- my blinker`s on -- you

cannot drive like that in a parking lot" - she just starts yelling at me.

She gets out of her car, comes over here punches my window -- throws something - whatever that brown thing is - she throws it -- she is

screaming at me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE OFFICER: OK. Is your window damaged? Anything damaged at all?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SCHOOL EMPLOYEE: No. She scared the hell out of me. And, I am like, "I am calling the police." She is all, "Call the police."

She is just screaming at me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE OFFICER: I do not see any crime. I am going to document her name. OK. I will go and talk to her if you can maybe locate her car.

That one right there?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: And then this is what happens next. Take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE OFFICER: What is your name, ma`am?

MICHELLE COOKS, 8-MONTH-PREGNANT WOMAN: I am not giving you my name -- for what?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE OFFICER: Yes, I actually do have the right to ask you for your name.

COOKS: OK. Let me make sure. Let me make sure.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE OFFICER: Well, how long is it going to be for you to make sure? OK?

COOKS: Let me make sure because I am not about to get harassed by the police.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE OFFICER: Well, you know what, ma`am -- I have every right to ask you for your name, OK?

COOKS: I am not about to (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Michelle. It is Michelle.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE OFFICER: Ma`am -- ma`am. Just give me your name, please? Give me your name.

COOKS: I just told you my name is Michelle.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE OFFICER: No, no. It is not good enough.

COOKS: Well, I do not feel comfortable right here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE OFFICER: OK. Let us go -- let us go fifteen.

COOKS: No. Do not touch me. Huh-uh. Do not touch me. Do not touch me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE OFFICER: Ma`am, please.

COOKS: Do not touch me. Do not touch me. I am pregnant. Do not touch me. Do not touch me. What the (EXPLETIVE WORD) Do not touch me. What

are you doing? What are you doing?

(21:40:00) UNIDENTIFIED MALE OFFICER: Ma`am.

COOKS: Please do not touch me! Please! I am pregnant. Please.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE OFFICER: So, why are you resisting, ma`am

COOKS: Do not touch me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE OFFICER: Why are you resisting?

COOKS: Please! Stop! Stop! No!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with Erica, Mike and Vanessa. You guys have a reaction to this? Just crazy.

BARNETT: It is disgusting. It is disgusting. This whole incident could have been handled so differently.

PINSKY: Mike, what is the matter?

CATHERWOOD: It could have been handled a lot differently if she would have listened to a police officer who is acting pretty reasonably at first.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

BARNETT: But, what you did not hear is that the cop say he was going to give her two minutes to figure out if she has the right, which in

California, you do have the right to not give your name. And, she was not aggressive. She was not a threat to anyone. So, to then take her arm and

throw her down was unnecessary force. There is a better way to handle this.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

PINSKY: Let me bring in the legal specialist, Loni Coombs. She is a former prosecutor, author of "You`re Perfect And Other Lies Parents Tell."

Loni, what? Is this appropriate behavior? Can she now sue the city? What do we think?

COOMBS: Well, she can sue the city, yes. I mean, obviously, she got thrown down to his 8 months pregnant. We are lucky that the baby was --

PINSKY: Well, if they behaved completely appropriately, again, they can sue for anything --

COOMBS: Right. The damages. But, let me start with what Vanessa is saying. Every state is different in whether you have to give your name or

not. Most states you do have to give your name when the police officer asks.

PINSKY: No matter what.

COOMBS: Right. In California you do not, unless they are actually investigating a legitimate crime. Like when they stop you on the road, and

they say give us your driver`s license.

PINSKY: But, he said -- The cop said there is no crime here.

COOMBS: Exactly.

BARNETT: Exactly.

COOMBS: Which is why that videotape is so important. Because he said that. It now is going to put the police officer on the line and that is

why it ended up that the whole case went away. Because the officer said, essentially, I have no legitimate basis to be asking you for your name.

PINSKY: Wow! Well, via Skype, I got Larry Elder. Larry is a radio commentator, Larryelder.com. Larry, it is interesting to me, Vanessa and

Mike looked at the same tape and saw completely two different things. Mike thought she should have just been given her name. Vanessa thought this

could have been handled totally differently.

LARRY ELDER, RADIO COMMENTATOR: The whole thing could have been handled differently. And, this is an object. Listen, this took place at a school.

And, she is a mom and a parent. For crying out loud, comply, you will not die.

If you notice how many of these incidents, whether it is Freddie Gray, whether it is Baltimore, whether it is Cleveland, whether it is Staten

Island with Eric Gardner, most of these civilians resisted. And, that is what caused things to go south.

Comply you will not die. Even if the arrest is an unlawful one, you do not have a legal right to resist. She was wrong. She escalated this whole

thing. The cop should have handled it differently, I agree with all of that. But, once he decided to make an arrest, she had no obligation other

than to comply.

PINSKY: Hold on a second. Loni, you disagree with that.

COOMBS: No. I actually agree because look, there is this loophole that police officers can ask -- Just go ahead and comply. What is the down side

to comply when you gave your name -- what happens when you do not comply it always escalate.

PINSKY: But are the cops saying? What do the cops think when she is not complying, "Oh, she is trying to hide something?"

COOMBS: Well, it is ridiculous. Why did they have to take her down, she is not going to run away.

PINSKY: Yes.

COOMBS: She is eight months pregnant.

PINSKY: With a child in the car.

COOMBS: Exactly. That all does not make sense. But, the police officer wants to take a report. He went to a call. He needs to write down why

they went there. He wants to put in the name. That is not an unreasonable request.

PINSKY: Larry, last thoughts.

ELDER: The Supreme Court has ruled that even if the officer is mistaken about whether or not he has probable cause to arrest you still do not have

a right to resist as a suspect. She escalated the thing.

She took it to DEFCON 1 and many of these people have their lives saved if people reacted more responsibly. I think parents have an obligation to

tell your children, cooperate, be respectful, be polite. Sort it out later on in the station for crying out loud, it does not have to go south.

BARNETT: Yes, because that always works.

PINSKY: Thank you, guys. Well, it did not happen in this case. Thank you, guys. Thank you, Larry. Thank you, Loni.

Next up, Tracy Morgan`s first interview since his accident. Back after this.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(21:47:58) AUDIENCE APPLAUDING

PINSKY: Time now for "Click Fix," where my panel tells me what is trending on their Facebook, Twitter, Instagram feeds. Back with Erica, Mike,

Vanessa. Vanessa, you are first.

BARNETT: OK. Half naked Derek Hough on Instagram.

PINSKY: What?

BARNETT: That is my story -- So he did this thing called, cryotherapy.

CATHERWOOD: It is awesome.

BARNETT: And, he posted this --

PINSKY: What do you mean, it is awesome.

CATHERWOOD: I have done it.

BARNETT: I have not told you what it is yet.

CATHERWOOD: Cryotherapy, I have done it right on down -- I have done it right down the street on --

BARNETT: You freeze your body, like negative 200 degrees. You get in there --

PINSKY: What?

BARNETT: Yes. Like a minute to three minutes and you is supposed to have all these health factors --

PINSKY: I heard Robin Quivers talking about this morning on Stern.

BARNETT: Yes, Howard Stern. Yes.

PINSKY: Wait. They got a tape of it. Go ahead.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOWARD STERN, RADIO HOST/PERSONALITY: I am in constant pain. I do not know what is going on with me.

ROBIN QUIVERS, RADIO PERSONALITY: Well, maybe you ought to try cryotherapy that I am doing.

STERN: Are you chilled?

QUIVERS: Am I chilled where?

STERN: When they do it to you.

QUIVERS: Yes. You are freezing. Cryotherapy is -- it helps with pain relief and inflammation and all kinds of things.

STERN: You do not have any of those things.

QUIVERS: I do.

STERN: No, you are fine. Just stop it. How much are you paying to be frozen? Give me the rundown on that.

QUIVERS: 70 bucks a shot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: For 30 minutes then Howard I guess --

AMERICA: Robin also got coffee enemas. I am just saying.

PINSKY: Oh, I know.

AMERICA: So, this is like --

CATHERWOOD: And Alaska and --

BARNETT: New age.

AMERICA: New age, yes.

CATHERWOOD: It is totally -- it is kind of new agey, but --

PINSKY: Why is it different to just putting an ice on the pain spot?

CATHERWOOD: No. No, Drew, 200 degrees below zero.

PINSKY: Why does that burn your skin?

CATHERWOOD: You have to go in a special thing and you wear -- but you can only go in for a couple minutes. I mean it really is so cold that it is

kind of stress response to that extreme cold creates this anti- inflammatory.

BARNETT: It may freeze your penis may fall off.

CATHERWOOD: MMA Fighters and stuff like they told --

BARNETT: They may fall right off.

CATHEWOOD: I heard them talking about -- I do not have much to lose. I heard MMA Fighters start talking about it and they also swear by it and it

helps them. And, they really beat up their bodies.

PINSKY: Well, it make some sense. Some sense, but I am not signing off yet. Erica.

AMERICA: Yes. We are on to mine.

PINSKY: We are on to you.

(21:50:00) AMERICA: OK. Let us go. Sorry. So, comedian, Tracy Morgan got into a very serious car accident about a year ago. So, this was all

over Twitter. He did his first interview on NBC`s "Today" show.

PINSKY: And, by the way, I saw him in some sort of YouTube video, people caught him sort of casually out in the world. He had very serious head

injury. I mean you can tell, he had some peripheral manifestations of really serious injury.

AMERICA: Yes. So, this is really sad, not only that he have, you know, brain injury. He lost his best friend, a comedian. So, he is not doing

well. He talked about his injuries. He broke down about missing his friend.

PINSKY: Do we have tape?

AMERICA: Yes. Let us look at the tape.

PINSKY: Let us look at the tape.

TRACY MORGAN, COMEDIAN: He was a loving man and he was a warm man.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: It is OK.

MORGAN: He was a good man. It just hurts me to see that he is gone. The loss of my friend will never heal. When I first came out of the coma, I

was a mess. I would curse out every day. I would throw things. I have my good days and bad days where I forget things, you know? There are times

when I got these headaches and the nose bleeds.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: But he is on "The Record" saying he will be back doing comedy. I wish him absolutely the best. Nicest guy ever. Mike, what do you got?

CATHERWOOD: Right. I saw this on Facebook, an 18-year-old girl, she takes a 30-mile cab ride. All right? She could not pay for it. She realizes

she has no money on her.

PINSKY: Where is this Do you know?

CATHERWOOD: Do I not know, actually.

BARNETT: It is Ohio.

PINSKY: Ohio.

CATHERWOOD: Ohio. OK. Her excuse was that her friends jumped and ran away early when it was time to pay. She was left to put the bill. And ,

she did not have her wallet on her. It did not matter to a judge, who offered her either 30 days in jail or she could walk that 30 miles in 48

hours. .

PINSKY: There she is, walking.

CATHERWOOD: Yes.

PINSKY: Loni -- Loni Coombs is still here. Is that an appropriate punishment?

COOMBS: Yes. I love this judge. Look, this is an 18-year-old. Are you going to throw her in jail? No. It is going to probably do more damage to

her than not. But you wanted her to learn a lesson. This judge came up with something creative, "Go, walk for 30 miles. You got two days to do

it." And, she will never do that again. I think this judge --

PINSKY: I do not know about that.

AMERICA: He is a super creative judge. I was looking at some other things that he did. He only does it to first-time offenders.

PINSKY: OK.

AMERICA: So, it is not someone who does a serious murder crime or anything.

PINSKY: Right.

AMERICA: And, it is kind of like an eye for an eye. It is some like in a weird, twisted way. It is really cool.

PINSKY: So, we are back to Hammurabi?

AMERICA: Hammurabi, exactly.

PINSKY: We are progressed.

AMERICA: You remember that from elementary school.

PINSKY: All right, guys. Thank you for these "Click Fixes." We are going to take a quick break and back with what we call, The Dr. Drew`s Qs, where

you guys -- audience can ask me questions. You can ask me on Twitter, anything you want. I will try to answer it. Back in a moment.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDIN)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(21:56:32) PINSKY: Time now for what we call Dr. Drew`s Qs. It is a chance to ask me a question on any topic and I will try to answer. And,

you can tweet your questions to @DrDrewHLN or use use #DrDrewsQs.

I am starting with Twitter. It is Brian, who asks, "Is sexting cheating? Interesting question. It is not a great sign for your relationship. It is

all I am saying. And, it is interesting. I think men are probably little more likely to sex with intent.

Women get more disturbed as you are having an intimate conversation with somebody. It is interesting. That is more threatening to some women.

But, yes, sexting -- let us put it this way. Your partner is not going to like it. Let us go to the audience. Yes, ladies, what is up?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: OK. So, we just got married seven weeks ago.

PINSKY: Congratulations.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: And, we had heard that medical research was advancing to a point where two women could create a baby without the use of

sperm. Wanted to know if you have heard about this or if you have any thoughts or what you might be able to tell us.

PINSKY: You have to use male DNA, though, right? Maybe you do not have to use the actual sperm, but --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: I do not know. I have heard something about taking the DNA, the two eggs and being able to obviously test tubing it and

creating --

PINSKY: There may be something like that out there. I am not familiar with it. But that would be interesting. I am trying to think how it would

happen biologically.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: And, you were the first person we thought to ask.

PINSKY: It is not my field, trust me. But, mostly -- What they usually do is they spin it with somebody`s sperm and they just take two eggs and see

what happens, that kind of thing. Or maybe one egg at one time, one egg at another time. But, God bless you guys. Congratulations.

You take advantage of whatever technology is out there. I am all for that. My kids are the product of a fertility campaign. So, I favor these things.

Lucia asked on twitter, "Why do men seem to take interest or kindness from a woman as a sign of sexual interest."

Yes. Men take everything as a sign of sexual interest. So, if you pay attention to them, they think this could be, somebody is in to me. Yes.

You cannot blame men, can you? We are weak. We are sad. No. Seriously, consider it a compliment. Just because a man consider it as a sexual

interest, does not mean you cannot set a boundary. He will be all right. Yes, ma`am.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Hi, Dr. Drew. My name is Tiffany. And, my husband and I are celebrating our one-year anniversary.

PINSKY: Congratulations.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: And, it has been a really great year. But, I am a psychologist. And, whenever I try to talk with him about

communication or compromise, he says, I am psychologizing him.

PINSKY: You know what? Can I walk up to her? Do I still get my picture? No, I cannot -- I can! I feel your pain. My wife does the exact same

thing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: OK! Yes!

PINSKY: Exact same thing. And, let me say, and you are not either. You are not. You are just --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Exactly.

PINSKY: You are just being cognitive.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Yes.

PINSKY: You are just thinking about things. You are just wondering more than anything.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Right.

PINSKY: You probably apply a lot of wonderment too? Like, "I wonder why that is, honey," even though you know. But, if not that you are trying --

if you cannot do that to somebody you are close to --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Right.

PINSKY: -- you would not do it. Not that it would be ethical, it would not be accurate. You are too close. So, where is he?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: He is right there.

PINSKY: Stop it, dude. Stop it. Come on. It is fine. It is all good.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE: Thank you.

PINSKY: Thank you. Congratulation. All right. That about does it for tonight. Thank you. You have been a great audience. Thank you all as

well for watching us. DVR us and you can watch any time. Thank you all, we will see you next time.

(22:00:00) (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

END