Return to Transcripts main page
NANCY GRACE
Mom Charged With Murder Smiles in Court. Aired 8-9:00p ET
Aired May 27, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live to Canon Beach. A smile and a wink, that says it all. Not really! A woman accused of
sedating and drowning her 2-year-old infant daughter, Isabella, in a hotel bathtub smiles and winks to the cameras in court.
Bombshell tonight. With hair and makeup professionally done, it`s hard to believe this raven-haired beauty is a cold-blooded killer, but the
evidence says otherwise. Better save that smile and the wink for a jury, lady!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Spotted by a Coast Guard helicopter during an intense manhunt...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you understand what`s happening?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bloody scene in her hotel room, drowned 2-year- old Isabella, 13-year-old critically cut.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jessica Smith smiled.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you understand what`s happening?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live, Durham, North Carolina, a father stands accused of suffocating his 4-year-old son, Blake (ph), to death. His defense emerges.
Daddy claims he was sleepwalking at the time of the murder?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My grandson, 4 years old, we can`t wake him up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A father is claiming he was sleepwalking during the attack.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don`t know if he`s dead.
911 OPERATOR: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She thinks the husband did something.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight, live to Canon Beach. A smile and a wink -- that says it all. Well, not really. A woman accused of sedating and drowning
her 2-year-old infant daughter, Isabella, drowning her in a hotel bathtub, smiling and winking for the cameras in court?
Well, with her hair and makeup professionally done, it`s hard to believe this raven-haired beauty is a cold-blooded killer, but the evidence
says otherwise. Hey, lady, you better save that smile and wink for the jury because you`re wasting it on me!
Out to Kyle Spurr, crime reporter with "The Daily Astorian." Kyle, thank you for being with us. What`s the smile and the wink? What`s that?
KYLE SPURR, "DAILY ASTORIAN" (via telephone): Well, that`s how she`s appeared in court each appearance she`s had. The smiles have kind of
faded. Now it`s more of a stoic...
GRACE: Well, hold on! Wa-wa-wa-wa-wa-wa-wait! Here we go. For a moment there, I thought she wasn`t going to come through, Kyle, but she
did, smiling and winking in court for everybody that will look. Take a look at this. It`s like she`s in the middle of a glamour shot, Matt
Zarrell.
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Yes, Nancy, but Oregon police say in the midst of a divorce and custody battle, Jessica
Smith drove her children to a resort and tried to kill one and successfully killed the other.
GRACE: OK, wait. Wa-wait! How did we get a mom at a resort killing one daughter, and what, abandoning the other? Start from the beginning,
Matt Zarrell.
ZARRELL: Yes, so what happened is that this -- that Jessica Smith and her husband are in the middle of a custody battle. She has possession of
the kids. They go to this resort. Everything seems fine. Now, three days after arriving at the resort, a housekeeper goes to clean the hotel room.
She can`t open the door, but can see an enormous amount of blood and she calls police.
GRACE: Wa-wait! Wa-wait! Let -- let -- let -- back it up, Matt. So this is at this resort, at the hotel. The housekeeper comes in.
ZARRELL: Yes.
GRACE: And she can`t quite get in, but she can see in, is that the housekeeper you`re talking...
ZARRELL: Correct.
GRACE: OK. And what does she see?
ZARRELL: She sees an enormous amount of blood.
GRACE: Just by just barely opening the door, she can see that much blood?
ZARRELL: Correct.
GRACE: Kyle Spurr joining me, crime reporter, Daily Astorian. So what happens then? There`s the resort right there at SurfsandSand.com.
Take a look. Kyle, so the housekeeper goes in, and what does she find?
SPURR: Well, exactly what was explained, you know, blood on the sheets, blood everywhere. So first reaction is call the police, you know,
call 911. And then at that point, it was the Canon Beach police chief who actually found the two girls.
GRACE: Everyone, you`re seeing shots of the resort where Mommy was. She was there with two daughters. One was tot Isabella and the other --
Matt Zarrell, where`s the other child?
ZARRELL: Well, the 13-year-old who actually survived -- she had her throat cut. She is actually -- she luckily survived. She is now with her
father and recovering.
GRACE: Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ms. Smith, are you able to hear what`s happening here in court today.
JESSICA SMITH, CHARGED WITH MURDER: Yes, your honor, I am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jessica Smith smiled as she answered questions from a Clatsop County judge.
[20:05:01]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You understand what`s happening in this discussion.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Smith was arrested on a remote logging road in Clatsop County, spotted by a Coast Guard helicopter during an intense
manhunt. Why a mother would try to kill her kids.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Jeff Gold out of New York, Peter Odom out of D.C. Jeff Gold -- can you play that back for me, Liz?
Why is she smiling and winking at the judge when she`s charged with murdering her infant?
JEFF GOLD, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It`s totally inappropriate, and she`s crazy. I mean, look, look what she did to her...
GRACE: She`s not crazy.
GOLD: ... own children -- look what she did to her own children, Nancy. Never going to tell me that a mom that kills her own children in
this kind of a heinous and comes to the court smiling about it like the Joker is not crazy. Anybody can see it!
GRACE: OK, number one, she has not been convicted. So these are all just allegations. Now, number two, this lady is not crazy. She does not
have any mental disability that we know of. She has not been treated for mental illness, nothing. In fact, she was at a resort.
Bottom line, Peter Odom, I think she just got tired of the burdens of being a mom. I mean, you`ve raised two children. Eleanor has raised a
daughter. It`s not always easy, right?
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, I mean...
GRACE: And at some time, some parents -- not me -- want a day pass. They want out.
ODOM: I mean, that`s hardly an excuse. I mean...
GRACE: No, it`s not.
ODOM: Why is she smiling? I just think it`s her affectation. You know, people have different reactions to being nervous. I think that`s
probably where it`s coming from. She just seems to use the smile. It`s really kind of creepy. But remember, Nancy, this woman has pled not
guilty, and right now, she is making the state prove its case. There`s an allegation that she`s killed one kid and harmed another, but that`s not...
GRACE: Well, she looks like she`s up for Miss Congeniality.
ODOM: That`s as yet unproven.
GRACE: I mean, when you see her in court...
ODOM: Is that evidence -- that`s not evidence of guilt.
GRACE: No, I didn`t say that it was.
ODOM: Her facial expression?
GRACE: I asked you...
ODOM: Well, you`re acting as if it is.
GRACE: ... why is she winking at the judge. I`m not acting any way, Peter Odom.
ODOM: It`s a little freaky, I agree.
GRACE: I`m pointing out that her demeanor is totally inappropriate, and why is she smiling and laughing and winking when her child has been
found dead and the other abandoned?
Matt Zarrell, what do we know in response to Jeff Gould`s claim that she`s crazy? Which is what they always throw out every time there`s a
murder, they must be insane.
ZARRELL: Well, Nancy, I think this could be exhibit number one, which is that the day of the killing, police determined that this mother went to
Rite-Aid and bought a few items, including Orajel mouth sore swabs, an everyday (ph) card (ph), and ZZZquil, which is basically a brand name of
Nyquil.
GRACE: Hold on. She brought ZZZquil and what did you say about swabs?
ZARRELL: Orajel mouth sore swabs. I`m suggesting here it was probably for the 13-year-old`s neck, to numb the neck while she tried to
slice her throat, allegedly.
GRACE: OK. Unleash the lawyers. So Jeff Gold, you claim she`s crazy, but she had the where with all to go to Rite-Aid and buy sore mouth
swabs -- mouth sore swabs to put on the 13-year-old girl`s neck, to put on the child`s neck to slice her neck so it wouldn`t hurt so much.
GOLD: Right. I don`t know the crazy reason she`s doing it because the husband was going to get custody of whatever else. She may have
thought she had a higher reason to do this, but it`s crazy when you kill your own kid! It`s crazy when you slice your own kid`s neck! And nobody
would believe you did that to have a day off, Nancy! These moms that do this are crazy!
GRACE: Jeff...
GOLD: Whether or not they can prove they`re crazy in court, I don`t know, but they are crazy.
GRACE: If you are suggesting and some weird back door way that women who kill are somehow less culpable because they`re mothers, that`s not the
law. And every time a mom that kills a child -- every time we discuss it, you guys always say the same thing. She`s mentally ill.
But Matt Zarrell, she`s not mentally ill. Mentally ill means, insanity means you don`t know right from wrong at the time of the incident.
What more do we know about her movements and her actions, Matt Zarrell?
ZARRELL: Yes, a lot of the information comes from the 13-year-old. The 13-year-old described what the mother did, that she put the baby in the
bathtub while the baby was sleeping. And also that the 13-year-old told cops her mother had left the hotel.
She comes back. The 13-year-old drowns the infant, and actually has the 13-year-old, Nancy, help her cut her own throat. The 13-year-old
helped her mother cut her own throat. The mother convinced her, apparently, to do it.
The 13-year-old says the mother used the numbing agent, like I talked about on her neck, and gave her a double dose of the sleeping agent and
another medication before trying to slice her throat.
GRACE: Matt, what -- how did she convince the 13-year-old girl to help her murder baby Isabella?
ZARRELL: Well, the 13-year-old told him that they -- being the 13- year-old and her mother -- were afraid that their dad was going to do something to them. I should note there`s no evidence to suggest that is
the case.
[20:10:02]GRACE: To Dr. William Morrone, forensic pathologist, medical examiner, toxicologist, renowned pathologist out of Madison
Heights. Dr. Morrone, it sounds like the mother was angry at the father. So how get back at the father, hurt the children.
What do you make of her trying to put mouth sore swabs on the child`s neck so it wouldn`t hurt so much when she killed her?
DR. MORRONE, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: The medicine inside Orajel is called benzocaine. It`s like lydocaine, what the dentist injects into your
gums when he pulls the teeth. So it numbs it up. But benzocaine sprayed on the skin makes the skin numb. When you burn yourself in a sunburn, you
spray benzocaine on it.
And that way, you`re not supposed to feel any cut. But razor blades that are very sharp aren`t painful. They`re -- it`s a death-defying
experience that they cut you and you really don`t feel it. So she really didn`t understand how the razor blade works, but she was trying to make it
painless. Therefore, so she had the capacity to understand there was a certain amount of suffering and coercion. So it`s a terrible scene, but I
think she knew what she was doing.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:16:07]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, your honor (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Aggravated murder of her 2-year-old daughter, Isabella, and attempted aggravated murder of her 13-year-old daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hardly any emotion except for an occasional smile, Jessica Smith heard the charges against her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The arrest warrant also says Smith left notes in the hotel room, saying her baby, quote, "didn`t suffer" as she fell asleep
in the water.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Everyone, a smile and a wink is not impressing me. Maybe it`s going to work on the judge, but this mother is charged with murdering her
2-year-old infant child, Isabella, and forcing her 13 -- coercing her 13- year-old girl to help her. Then after she rubs mouth sore gel across the child`s neck, she leaves them both to die.
In court, smiling, laughing, even winking at court personnel. Oh -- oh, dear. OK. That`s what I`m talking about.
Matt Zarrell, what more do we know? What else was found in the hotel room to show this was premeditated, not the acts of a criminally insane
lunatic?
ZARRELL: Yes, so cops say that in the hotel room, police found notes allegedly written by the mother explaining the circumstances of her
daughter`s death and referring to the 13-year-old opening her veins. The mother allegedly wrote in one of her notes that the baby didn`t suffer as
she fell asleep in the water.
The mother allegedly indicated in one of her notes that she had planned to use the same method as the 13-year-old to kill herself, but did
not have the time or strength after assisting the 13-year-old. And one of the notes also allegedly included "Please call Greg," referring to her
husband.
GRACE: So all of these notes were found in the room, OK? The lawyers will argue until they`re blue in the face that she should be exempt from
prosecution because she`s insane.
Caryn Stark, psychologist, you know better than any of us. I want to hear your take on it, Caryn. Is she insane? With intricate notes like
that, a trip to Rite-Aid for ZZZquil to put the girls to sleep, rubbing the analgesic across their throat so the knife wouldn`t hurt so much, and then
abandoning them so she could be free of her children?
CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: Nancy, she clearly knows the difference, in my opinion, between right and wrong. So does she have a mental illness?
Well, someone who`s a sociopath or a mother who murders, that`s not normal. But if she knows the difference between right and wrong -- and when we look
at this, just the fact she could get...
GRACE: Well, Caryn, wait a minute!
STARK: Yes?
GRACE: Wa-wa-wa-wa-wa-wait! Caryn Stark...
STARK: Yes, Nancy?
GRACE: ... I agree with you she`s not normal. But I would argue that everyone that commits a violent crime is not normal...
STARK: That`s right.
GRACE: ... based on what I think is normal. Of course, she`s not normal. She killed her child, allegedly. She has not been convicted yet.
But of course she`s not normal.
STARK: Right. And that`s what I`m trying to say is she`s not normal and she does have mental disease, but that doesn`t mean that she doesn`t
know the difference between right and wrong.
GRACE: Well, another thing that happened...
STARK: She does.
GRACE: Another thing that happened --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Another thing that happened, Caryn Stark -- and let me go to Matt Zarrell on this. She was then caught on video hiking, wandering
through the forest, hiking. And we`ve got that video, Matt.
ZARRELL: Yes, she was -- yes, she -- apparently, she used cash to buy gas after fleeing the scene and that then she goes on wandering. And
you`re seeing this video where -- this is how the cops tracked her down and arrested her.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:23:36]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jessica Smith smiled as she answered questions from a Clatsop County judge.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You understand what`s happening in this discussion?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Smith was arrested on a remote logging road in Clatsop County, spotted by a Coast Guard helicopter during an intense
manhunt. Why a mother would try to kill her kids.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight back out to Matt Zarrell on the story. The smile and the wink not saving the day here, anyway. I don`t know if it`s going to
bamboozle the judge.
Matt Zarrell, the 13-year-old -- why didn`t she call 911?
ZARRELL: Well, apparently, the mother was the one who told cops that during the course of the event, she actually tried to help the 13-year-old
after cutting the throat, but her daughter refused to allow her to call 911 for help.
GRACE: OK. You know what? We`ve also learned that police don`t think the 13-year-old had anything to do -- was not culpable for the baby`s
drowning.
Back to renowned forensic pathologist Dr. William Morrone. Where does ZZZquil fit into this scenario? If the baby, Isabella, was forced to drink
ZZZquil -- why?
MORRONE: First of all, there`s no pediatric version of ZZZquil, so that`s an adult drug being given to baby. The benadryl or other sedative
and decongestants in ZZZquil will reduce you from a conscious state to a sleepy state. It`s supposed to make you sleepy.
[20:25:12]And that product is not intended for anybody under the age of 12, let alone 2. That`s a bad thing. You cause an overdose when you
use something like that in children, and that`s exactly what she had planned. We shouldn`t even didn`t wait to see if the autopsy, whether the
baby died of a toxic overdose or the baby died of drowning.
GRACE: Drowning. You know, another thing, too -- unleash the lawyers, Peter Odom and Jeff Gold. So Peter Odom, after she -- she
definitely, one child, the baby`s, drowned dead of an OD on ZZZquil, which is for adults. The other one, she rubs numbing agent on her neck, slices
her throat and leaves them both, abandons them both, and she`s out hiking solo. Thoughts?
ODOM: Yes. Everything about this says insanity. Everything about this says crazy. Everything about this says a well established pattern of
mental illness.
GRACE: What well established pattern...
ODOM: It`s a very disturbing crime, Nancy.
GRACE: ... of mental illness?
ODOM: It`s a very disturbing crime. The notes that she left, the trying to...
GRACE: Why are the notes...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Why are the notes mental illness?
ODOM: It`s clear to me in listening to these facts that she does not appreciate the difference between right and wrong. And even if you believe
that the evidence suggests she does, she is acting under an irresistible impulse.
And remember -- and I say this, Nancy, both to you and Caryn Stark -- that that also can support an insanity defense if a person acts under an
irresistible impulse.
GRACE: With me right now, victims` rights attorney Jeff Herman. Jeff, thank you so much for being with us. I`d like you to weigh in,
please.
JEFF HERMAN, VICTIMS` RIGHTS ATTORNEY: You know, we see this mom continue to inflict pain on this 13-year-old daughter who survived. The
mom comes into court smiling. This poor 13-year-old, who`s the key witness to this whole prosecution, is seeing this, waiting -- she`s waiting to go
to trial. And now, just last month, a month before, the court continued the case another year. And so this poor victim, who`s waiting to finally
be able to testify, and hopefully, get some kind of closure to this very, very dark scene, just continues to suffer.
GRACE: You know, with us, Jeff Herman, victims` rights attorney, Caryn Stark, she`s a 13-year-old girl, and she`s going to have to testify
against her own mother. Can you even imagine?
STARK: Nancy, there`s no closure involved in that. I don`t understand how she could get closure. She can get a lot of help and she
can deal with the trauma of what happened, but she clearly was under her mother`s influence. She can`t make an independent decision to help murder
her sister or agree that she wants her neck cut. So this is going to be a tremendous problem for her, and her life is not OK.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:32:00]
GRACE: Live, Durham, North Carolina, a father stands accused of suffocating his 4-year-old son, Blake, to death. His defense emerges,
daddy claims he was sleepwalking at the time of the murder?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can feel or hear any breathing.
No?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The defense claiming home foreclosure, unemployment and sleep deprivation triggered a rare, violent sleepwalking
event.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Outrage tonight, a man claims he`s sleepwalking at the time he murders, strangles his child dead. Here`s Blake. Picture there. And he
is acquitted by a jury. He walks free. Defense, he slept-walk while he strangled his child dead.
I want to go to first to the jury foreperson, Gwen Vareene-Pierce joining us out of Durham. Thank you for being with us. What was your
thinking in acquitting the father in this case?
GWEN VAREENE-PIERCE, JURY FOREWOMAN: We were really convinced he was unconscious when he did this.
GRACE: How?
VAREENE-PIERCE: His vital signs proved to be unconscious state. His vital signs proved he stabbed himself in the building (ph) and slashed his
neck, and his body signs showed no pain. And he had no motive, he had no malice and no intent.
GRACE: Can I ask you, what vital signs showed he was sleepwalking?
VAREENE-PIERCE: I don`t have that information in front of me, but the vital signs that the med folks -- that they took on him when they showed up
at his house, he was unconscious. They took all of the vital signs that I guess that proved that he was unconscious. So, nothing in his medical
showed that he was conscious.
GRACE: This is after the medics get there, after the baby is dead and after he stabs himself in the tummy, and you believe that he was asleep
when he murdered his own child?
VAREENE-PIERCE: Yes, ma`am, we do. We do.
GRACE: Now, you stated he did not have a motive, but I know that the judge charged you. The state doesn`t need to show you a motive. You don`t
need to know why somebody did or didn`t do something. Just that you have to reach the decision, did they do it. You mentioned the reason you
acquitted him, one of the reasons, is because when the medics got there, they said his vital signs showed he was asleep or that he didn`t feel
anything and that he didn`t have a motive.
[20:35:00]
VAREENE-PIERCE: No motive, no malice. No intent. This man was in an parasomnia state. That is the diagnosis that the psychiatrist concluded
for him.
GRACE: You mean for the defense, the defense psychiatrist. What did the state psychiatrist say?
VAREENE-PIERCE: The state psychiatrist diagnosed him with, name of it, I had it on the tip of my tongue until you asked.
GRACE: Narcissist. The state--
VAREENE-PIERCE: Yes, he had no characteristics of narcissistic behavior. Not one characteristic of that behavior.
GRACE: But that`s not what the state psychiatrist said, right?
VAREENE-PIERCE: His, the psychiatrist on the state side, who only worked with him for four hours and did not see him until 2013, concluded
after four hours of work with him that he had narcissistic behavior.
GRACE: Narcissistic behavior. You know where narcissistic comes from, the Greek myth of Narcissis, who looks into a pond and falls in love
with his own image. In other words, when you suffer from this, all you think about is how the world affects you. For instance, how much money it
costs you to raise your child. He was under extreme financial difficulty, and if you are a narcissist and you look at your child, you don`t see this
beautiful baby that I`m looking at. You see a price tag. How much it costs to feed him. How much it costs to send him to school, to day care.
How much his shoes cost. That`s what you see. That`s what a narcissist sees. Everything relates to how it affects you, the narcissist.
Now, it`s interesting, let me see that from the autopsy again, please. Blake, the little boy, strangled dead, had a scab on his forehead,
hemorrhages to his head, which means blows to the head, bruises, a red chain length contusion around his neck. He was suffocated, strangled with
a chain. But let me see this mask. Is it true, with me is a jury foreperson, Ms. Gwen Vareene-Pierce, who acquitted the father of murder, of
strangling his own child. Is it true he was wearing this mask?
VAREENE-PIERCE: No, the forensic person said that he, there was no DNA of the mask. The DNA -- only thing they found in the mask was dog
hair. No DNA from him. Nothing to prove he had ever had that mask.
GRACE: I thought the eyewitnesses said he was wearing it.
VAREENE-PIERCE: No. The mask was found in the eyewitness` bed.
GRACE: According to the trial transcript, the family says he was wearing it. Matt Zarrell, who in the family said daddy was wearing his
mask? Covering his face? I guess he put that on in his sleep.
ZARRELL: Both the 13-year-old and the 10-year-old who were up close when the father was trying to kill them both said he was wearing a mask
when he came in, multiple times.
GRACE: Matt, so, he didn`t just kill little Blake? He tried to kill the other ones, too?
ZARRELL: Correct.
GRACE: I didn`t realize that part. So, Ms. Vareene-Pierce, you believe he slept through trying to kill all of his children?
VAREENE-PIERCE: I truly believe that, ma`am. I truly believe he was unconscious when he committed this act. I am an advocate for children. I
had been working with children all my life. I would never let a man go free if I thought he had any place in what happened.
GRACE: So, he had been unemployed two years and was in financial distress, and every time he looked at his children, he saw, cha-ching, how
much they cost him. So you really believe he slept through murdering his 4-year-old? And he was wearing gloves. So you think he put on the mask in
his sleep, put on gloves in his sleep, got --
VAREENE-PIERCE: That was never proven. It was never proven that he had the gloves or the coat on. That was found in the room where they found
him at, but there was nothing to prove he had those things on.
GRACE: Okay, Candace Trunzo is joining me, senior news editor, Dailiymail.com. Where do the gloves come from? Why do we believe he was
wearing the gloves?
TRUNZO: I think you know, the thing about this, Nancy, that`s pretty incredible, and I was not there in the jury room, but these gloves had
blood on them. The mask had blood on it. When cops took all of these things, including the jacket he was wearing, which was his wife`s, when
they took these things, there was blood.
[20:40:00]
And it shows to me that there was intent here. He had a mask, he had gloves, he was trying to hide something. It`s pretty incredible that he
was wearing the stuff and the jury didn`t get this. Didn`t understand this. That there was intent here.
GRACE: So, Ms. Vareene-Pierce, the blood, the gloves had blood on them. The mask had blood on it. The little boys say daddy was wearing a
mask. The coat, the jacket he put on over his own clothes so they wouldn`t get blood on them. That had blood on it. He was covered in his own
children`s blood. And his children`s blood. So, you still think he slept through the whole thing?
VAREENE-PIERCE: He slashed his neck. That was his blood. Not children`s blood.
GRACE: So, he was wearing the clothes then, right?
VAREENE-PIERCE: No, the clothes was on the floor where he bled. Where he laid and bled.
GRACE: So, the mask, the jacket and the gloves, you believe were just somehow coincidentally lying on the floor and he bled on them. That`s what
you think?
VAREENE-PIERCE: Everything in the room had blood on it. So those things were laying around. The mask showed up in the daughter`s room. But
there was no indication from the forensic folks that he had that stuff on. They had a, you know, I don`t want to really say anything negative about
the family, but the house was pretty junky, filthy, junky. You know, so, things were all about that house.
GRACE: Right now I wouldn`t be so worried about the house being messy. I`d worry about the fact that this dad, who murdered his child and
tried to kill the other two, walked free by convincing a jury he was asleep the whole time. That`s what I`m worried about.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:46:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My grandson, 4 years old. We can`t wake him up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A father is claiming he was sleepwalking. During the attack.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He doesn`t know if he`s dead. She thinks the husband did something.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A jury actually acquits a man who claims he slept walk through the murder of his 4-year-old baby. Suffocating him, strangling him with a
chain length then trying to kill the other two children. His defense said he slept walk through the whole thing. Take a listen to this 911 call.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What`s your emergency?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s something going on with a young boy and my son-in-law. We need help. We need ambulance and police, please. We have
a dire emergency. There`s a young boy, my grandson, 4 years old, we can`t wake him up. The father is locked up in a room, we don`t know what`s going
on, everybody`s screaming.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tell me, what`s going on?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know. My daughter is up there screaming, her husband is in his study and he won`t come out, and now, there`s a young
boy, his son, 4 years old, we can`t wake him up. And I don`t know what`s going on. We need emergency as fast as possible.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sir, stay on the phone with me, okay.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I will.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Get some information for you, we`re going to get them on the way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Okay.
GRACE: This man who strangled, suffocates his child dead, you can see his chain link bracelet indention on the boy`s neck. The jury believed he
slept through the whole thing. With me is the jury foreperson. Ms. Vareene-Pierce, thank you for being with us. So, he`s in a room with the
boy and everybody`s screaming and crying, he slept through that, too, was still asleep when the EMTs got there?
VAREENE-PIERCE: He wasn`t in there with the boy. He was in there by himself. He had stabbed himself and he barricaded himself against the door
and just laid there.
GRACE: And he slept through the stabbing of his own body? Slept through that, too? Was he asleep when the EMTs got there?
VAREENE-PIERCE: Yes, he was still unconscious when the EMTs got there. All of his vital signs showed him unconscious.
GRACE: Okay. When the ex-wife, the mother of this baby, this dead baby, her -- she hyperventilated and had to be taken out on a stretcher.
She was so distraught, screaming I couldn`t protect my baby, I didn`t protect my baby. She got taken out on a stretcher. After a jury acquits
this man who claimed he slept walk through the murder of his own child. Dr. William Morrone, renowned pathologist out of Madison Heights, is it
possible?
MORRONE: In every case of sleepwalking, there`s always a limit that people are like under hypnosis, they never reach beyond cultural barriers
into evil, dark or moral, unethical acts.
GRACE: Yes, I don`t know what you just said. Dumb me down.
MORRONE: People don`t kill other people in sleepwalking.
GRACE: Ridiculous.
MORRONE: They walk around in their jammies, they walk around in the house. They end up in a room they don`t understand. They don`t go do
things that are on the edge of sensory and higher power evil. This is impossible to have been sleepwalking. You end up in the bathroom in your
jammies and say, oh, my God, why am I here? Or your parents take you back to your bedroom and put you back in bed. This doesn`t happen.
[20:50:00]
GRACE: I`ve never heard you can sleep through stabbing yourself in the stomach, which, I might add, was a superficial stab. He obviously was
treated and released. Went straight to jail, and now a jury has acquitted him. Acquitted him? Blood everywhere. Tried to kill the other two
children. Did kill this child. What was the motivation, Candace Trunzo? Our jury foreperson said we didn`t have a motive, but there was a motive.
Each one of these children cost him money. He was broke. He wanted out.
TRUNZO: I think he did. He was facing foreclosure, Nancy. That house was not going to be their house for very long and he knew he had to
do something to move on.
GRACE: At what cost?
TRUNZO: He and his wife. The children had to go. It seems to me that`s what was going on.
GRACE: To Gwen Vareene-Pierce, jury foreperson, when you know that the mother of this baby, when she heard your not guilty verdict,
hyperventilated and had to be taken out on a stretcher. She was there and she believes he`s guilty. What do you say to that?
VAREENE-PIERCE: My heart goes out to her. I am very empathetic about this whole situation. She was there. She was in her room. They were in
different rooms. She never saw what happened.
GRACE: But you think you knew better than her?
VAREENE-PIERCE: Say that again?
GRACE: You think you know more of what happened than the mother did?
VAREENE-PIERCE: No, I don`t.
GRACE: Because she thought he was guilty.
VAREENE-PIERCE: She didn`t say she saw him do it. She didn`t say she suspected any of these kind of actions could come from her husband.
GRACE: Well, okay, Matt Zarrell, did the mother testify about what happened?
ZARRELL: Yes, but what happened the mother was awoken by the 13-year- old coming in holding the limp body of the 4-year-old boy, and that`s when she realized something was going on.
GRACE: Who did she testify for, the state or the defense? So you have the mother testifying against the father, and so you don`t see that
she thinks he`s guilty? She hyperventilates, has to be taken out on a stretcher, but you think he was asleep?
VAREENE-PIERCE: I`m sure she thinks he`s guilty, but if they did not prove their case, the state did a sorry job. They did a sorry job.
GRACE: Oh, okay.
(CROSSTALK)
VAREENE-PIERCE: You have to validate it.
GRACE: You know what, lady, first you say -- first you say he was asleep, then you say he didn`t have a motive, then you say you can`t prove
he was wearing a mask, even though the witnesses say he was wearing a mask. Then you say he didn`t have on the gloves, although they were covered in
blood. Now you say the mom in the home didn`t know what was going on. She was there that night. And now you blame the state, that they did a sorry
job. I don`t think it was the state that did a sorry job.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:57:20]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Put your ear next to his mouth and tell me if you can feel or hear any breathing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can`t. I cannot.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The defense claiming home foreclosure, unemployment and sleep deprivation triggered a rare violent sleepwalking
event.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To Candace Trunzo, senior news editor Dailymail.com, this father has walked free after strangling his child. According to the
eyewitnesses, his two other children, daddy was wearing a grotesque mask, his wife`s coat, and rubber gloves when he did this. This baby is dead.
And to hear the jury foreperson tell us, it`s everybody else`s fault. It sounds like they bent over backwards to let this guy walk.
Candace, from my review of the transcript, the state psychologist said that he repeatedly interviewed Mitchell, said he had no mental condition at
all that would have left him unconscious, and that he consciously planned the attacks. He has walked free, Candace.
TRUNZO: I know, it`s astounding. And when he left that courtroom, and he had no place to go. He has no money. He went to several homeless
shelters. They wouldn`t even let him in, because people know that this crime was so despicable.
GRACE: So everybody knew but the people that needed to know the most, the jury. It sounds like they would do anything to let this guy walk.
It`s actually scaring me about our justice system. Dr. Morrone, tell me one more time, am I crazy or is this possible that he did did all of this
while he was asleep? I don`t believe it.
MORRONE: And I don`t believe it either. And the reason is we have decades, hundreds of years of sleepwalking without violence. This was a
tremendous act of fiction by the defense. People do not reach ethical and moral boundaries and pass them in hypnosis and sleepwalking. That doesn`t
happen. They walk around in their jammies. They bump into things. They wake up on the sofa.
GRACE: Let`s stop and remember Marine Lance Corporal James Brown, 20, Owensville, Indiana. Purple Heart, Navy and Marine Achievement Medal. A
Golden Gloves boxing champ and high school football star. Loved fishing, hunting, parents Edward and Joanne, sister Carmen (ph), brother Dylan,
fiancee Jamie. James Brown, American hero.
Drew up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.
END
