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Biker Gangs Engage in Shootout in Texas; NTSB Continues Investigation into Amtrak Train Derailment; ISIS Takes Iraq City of Ramadi; Sen. Rand Paul Opposed to the Patriot Act. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired May 19, 2015 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[08:00:00] NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, this has certainly shaken up the community Alisyn. And while police department officials that we've spoken to says that this is not unique to Waco, Texas, that biker gangs are all across the United States, it certainly caused shock and panic as the shootout broke out on Sunday. Police also saying they are on a heightened sense of alert as they expect more bike gangs to come into town. So far, though, nothing has happened.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SGT. W. PATRICK SWANTON, WACO POLICE: I am still at 170 individuals that we have arrested and charged.

VALENCIA: In custody this morning, 170 suspected biker gang members, their bond totally $170 million after a dispute in a restaurant bathroom on Monday led to nine people dead and 18 injured, over 100 weapons found at the scene.

SWANTON: Shell casings, weapons, knives, clubs, we're talking chains with padlocks on the end of them.

VALENCIA: Cell phone video captures the aftermath, bodies lying outside Twins Peaks restaurant in Waco, Texas, the fierce gun battle with rival motorcycle gang members turned within moments into a gun battle with officers, a memo going out to local police warning the officers that members of the Bandidos and the Cossacks have reportedly been instructed to arm themselves and travel to north Texas.

SWANTON: We would encourage biker groups to stand down. There has been enough blood. There has been enough death here.

VALENCIA: Aerials show members of one of the biker groups, the Cossacks, being arrested, many of the others part of the notorious Bandido motorcycle club.

CHRIS OMODT, FORMER CAPTAIN HENNEPIN COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE: In Texas the Bandidos are at the top of the pile, and everybody wants to be at that top level. That's all this is. It's king of the hill.

JIMMY GRAVES, STATE CHAIRMAN FOR THE COC: We are not like that. The '60s are long gone. VALENCIA: With a faded swastika tattooed on his arm, a Bandido

member high up in rank says the police and the media have it all wrong.

GRAVES: We didn't do nothing here. We're fighting for our rights. They're saying lies on TV and telling everybody that the Bandidos are after police officers. That's never been.

VALENCIA: U.S. Justice Department identifies the Bandidos as one of the top two largest outlaw motorcycle gangs in America, with at least 2,000 members in the U.S. and 13 other countries, and the Texas Department of Public Safety still lists them as a tier two gang, the second most dangerous classification.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VALENCIA: And according to a law enforcement source, preliminary information indicates that four of the bikers were shot and killed by police, though a local police department official that we spoke to say they have yet to officially determine who is responsible for the nine deaths. Back to you.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Think about it. This is a turf conflict playing out in plain sight. Our next guest spent five years infiltrating biker gangs for the DEA and ATF. We agreed to protect his identity because he fears, and reasonably so, that he is still a target. His name is Charles Falco and he is the author of "Vagos, Mongols, and Outlaws." Charles, thank you for joining us and appreciate it even under these conditions. I appreciate you taking the risk to talk to us.

CHARLES FALCO, AUTHOR, "VAGOS, MONGOLS, AND OUTLAWS": Thank you, Chris. Thank you for having me.

CUOMO: All right, to be very clear, the early reports was this was about parking spots, and that's why these hundreds of guys showed up and decided to fight to the death. What's it really about?

FALCO: It's about territory. It's about the Texas state bottom rocker that members wear on their vest. The Cossacks decided to step it up and challenge the Bandidos for Texas, and this is the result of that challenge.

CUOMO: The bottom rocker, you mean the patch that you wear along the bottom of your vest. The top one is your name, you have your symbol in the middle, and then you have your location on the bottom. Now, why is something like that so important? What does it really mean?

FALCO: That means you are claiming that state as your state or your territory.

CUOMO: To do what?

FALCO: To be the top echelon of the biker world for that state. It's not really to control drugs or criminal activity. It's just to be the biggest man on the block. It's to say this is ours.

CUOMO: But if it's not about money or crime or anything like that, then what is there to the ownership?

FALCO: They like war. They like participating in war. They like acts of violence, and they just want to be able to say this is our state and we stopped any other motorcycle group from coming in to our sort.

CUOMO: What is the word about how big this is, how serious this is?

FALCO: Well, anytime a biker gang war starts, it never stops. I mean, 30, 40 years from now you will still be reporting about these two biker gangs fighting each other. The war will never end between the two.

CUOMO: So it's the Cossacks and the Bandidos. Now, isn't this something that you usually hear about later on, as opposed to playing out in plain sight where they're telling the police, we're coming, we're telling people to arm themselves and they're going to come in there and we're going to settle this once and for all? How unusual is this?

[08:05:04] FALCO: It's pretty unusual. There has been some shoot-outs in the last decade on the west coast, but they usually like to stay low-key and not be in the public eye so that they can kind of fool the public into thinking that they are not a gang.

CUOMO: And what do you hear in terms of what may happen next here with all these big numbers of people? I mean, it's very unusual for us to observe this, and the police are kind of like the referees in this situation as opposed to just locking everybody down.

FALCO: Yes, I think the Bandidos and the Cossacks will stand down for now, and then I think you will see a retaliation in about nine months to a year. Biker gangs are very patient, and they'll wait, and then they'll strike again. But I think they will back off now because of the media attention and law enforcement being out in high numbers. They will wait for it to die down and then they'll do a counterattack.

CUOMO: And what do you make of these big numbers that are going there, though? If they are planning to keep it on the down-low for a while, why are they amassing such big numbers in state?

FALCO: I think they are preparing for any other actions that could happen. I think they are trying to mass numbers so they can protect each other, especially in areas where they may have less numbers. So I mean, both the Bandidos and the Cossacks have hundreds of members in Texas, and both of them, I would consider that their home state. So I think they are just massing to make sure that they can protect each other to get a game plan for the future, to meet and discuss this ongoing war with each other.

CUOMO: Is there anything the police can do to stop something like this? Again, you understand the dynamics of the cultures well, but basically you saw the scene play out for yourself. The cops are just kind of ringing around the situation and letting it play out. It was very weird. All these locals were showing up with their own weapons to kind of defend what was going on there and they wound up getting arrested. It's very unusual.

FALCO: Yes. I think if we stop giving concealed weapons permits to gang members, that would have definitely reduced the amount of guns that were at the restaurant. I think second, anytime a restaurant or bar or club has a biker event, they should make it so it is no colors, no colors meaning they're not allowed to wear any gang affiliated clothing.

CUOMO: How do you enforce that if five big dudes come on with these vests on, you expect some like waiter to come to them and say, I'm sorry, you will have to leave? How do you expect them not to get concealed weapon permits unless they are felons or they trigger any of the requirements? They are able to get them as anywhere else in a place like Texas.

FALCO: I know. You have to change legislation, because all these gang members are known gang members. The feds and the local police department have files on them. They are in the system as gang members. So you simply would just have to flag these folks in the system so when they did apply for a concealed weapons permit, it came out they were a known gang member, and then you don't allow them to get a concealed weapons permit.

CUOMO: When you talk to law enforcement, they see these gangs of getting away with the worst we have in society. They believe that they are responsible collectively for over half the drug trafficking in the country, that they believe they are responsible for a large percent of the unsolved murders. What was the big lesson that you learned in your time infiltrating that you think people should know?

FALCO: That biker gangs are much more sophisticated and structured, much more structured than your average street gang. They know what they are doing. They have bylaws and rules and a highly sophisticated way of conducting war. They keep files on their enemies. They do counter-surveillance and surveillance on their enemies and law enforcement. They are very smart. They are not what we picture as our average biker.

CUOMO: Charles Falco, thank you very much. Thank you for agreeing to come on even with your concerns, and we'll stay in touch off television so you can let us know what's going on. Appreciate it.

FALCO: Thank you, sir.

CUOMO: Alisyn.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: OK, Chris, now to another one of our top stories. Investigators say the Amtrak train that derailed last week was not hit by gunfire, but they still do not know what damaged the front of the train. CNN's Erin McLaughlin is tracking the latest developments live for us from Philadelphia. What is the latest in the investigation, Erin?

ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn. At the heart of the mystery, why this train accelerated at the center of the investigation as the train's engineer, 32-year-old Brandon Bostian, he says he does not remember.

The latest NTSB findings are as follows. The FBI looked at the circular marking yesterday on the windshield and concluded that it was not from a bullet. Bostian did not tell dispatch the train was hit by an object, and so far there is no indication of mechanical failure, although authorities say they are not ruling that out.

[08:10:11] Now, today we learned that a conductor has filed a suit against Amtrak. Yesterday suits were filed by three, or rather four of the passengers. The issue with the suits being there is a federal cap of $200 million that covers any suits and all victims from a single rail incident. Legal experts are saying that is not enough to cover all of the damages in this tragedy, and now lawmakers are trying to challenge the cap. Michaela?

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Erin, thank you for the latest on that.

Overseas not in Iraq, Shiite militia men are bracing for battle against ISIS as 3,000 Shiite fighters now mobilizing east of Ramadi in a desperate bid to take the key city back. CNN's senior international correspondent Nick Paton Walsh is live in Beirut with more for us. Nick?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Michaela, it's simply a case of when can this counterattack against ISIS in Ramadi who swept in surprise and decisive assault over the weekend, when can that counterattack begin? We know there are thousands of Shia militia gathering to the east, but we just heard a statement that from Iraq Prime Minister al Abadi in which he suggested that maybe weapons should finally be given to another potential opponent of ISIS, and that's the Sunni tribes who live in Anbar. They have all wanted arms to fight ISIS, but they haven't been given the amount that they want because of that whole Sunni/Shia divide that's across the Middle East right now, Shia controlling much of the weapons and Baghdad and the Sunnis being distrusted by them.

If Prime Minister Abadi manages to get the weapons to those tribes, and there's still hurdles ahead of him, that could change part of the fight and nature of the counterattack and make it less of a Shia militia very Sunni ISIS fight, but the question is still where will the U.S. fit in in all of this? Are they going to use air power to try and back up Shia militia? Where were they when Ramadi fell? Questions still being asked, and each hour those questions are asked and the fight back doesn't begin, ISIS digging into Ramadi and potentially having a horrifying brutality against those still trapped inside that city. Chris?

CUOMO: Nick, thank you very much for bringing us up to date, appreciate it. So at least 62 people are dead, dozens more injured after what

you are seeing right now on your screen, a massive landslide in northwest Columbia. This happened about 3:00 in the morning on Monday. Most people, of course, sleeping. Hundreds of rescuers are now out searching for survivors, 100 more are feared homeless. Help will be need.

CAMEROTA: No charges for a Texas police officer that shot and killed a man during a traffic stop in February. A grand jury decided Officer Robert Clark acted properly when he shot Ruben Garcia Villalpando after a high speed chase. Officials releasing dash cam video of the exchange that led up to the shooting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Back up. Get to the back of the car. Get to the back of the car! Get to the back of the car! Get to the back of the car!

Shots fired. Shots fired.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Villapando's family attorney will ask the Justice Department for an independent investigation.

PEREIRA: This is quite a story, a south Texas mother giving birth to rare identical triple girls, two of them conjoined at the pelvis. Catalina, Ximena, and Scarlett born over the weekend at Corpus Christi Hospital. Their pediatric surgeon says Ximena and Scarlett share a colon. They need to get bigger and stronger before then can operate to separate them, and he says that could take at least six months. People have been following along with the family on Facebook watching because they have known this because of the sonograms, et cetera, that this was expected, and so a lot of people praying for this family and those little ones.

CAMEROTA: Those little ones look like little birds when they first are born, but then they grow.

CUOMO: We know so much about about how to deal with conjoined twins and the options.

CAMEROTA: We do.

All right, Republican presidential hopeful Rand Paul sat down with NEW DAY to clarify what he says are misconceptions about him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAND PAUL, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is what people misunderstand sometimes about my possession. I am all for going after terrorists. I'm all for the NSA looking at records.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[08:18:00] SEN. RAND PAUL (R), KENTUCKY: I will filibuster the Patriot Act and I will do everything I can to try to adhere to the courts. The courts have now said the bulk collection of records is illegally. They should stop immediately.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: All right. That was Senator Rand Paul in our sit-down interview, slamming the NSA's phone collection program, and carving out some real distinctions between himself and his 2016 GOP rivals.

So, let's talk about this with our CNN political commentators, Paul Begala, Democratic strategist and a co-chair of a pro-Hillary Clinton super PAC, and Ana Navarro, she's a Republican strategists and supporter of Jeb Bush and advisor to other GOP candidates.

Great to see both of you this morning.

PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Thanks, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: So, it was really interesting to sit down with Rand Paul. And he really did carve out distinctions between his position and his rivals. The first one is about the NSA and the phone collection and he is really opposed to it.

So, let's listen first to what Chris Christie told FOX about the NSA, and then we will contrast it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: People think we are listening in on conversations -- we're not. And it's simply a misunderstanding and quite frankly mischaracterization by some partisans who have a different agenda. I've done this agenda. I was United States attorney for seven years, and one of the real hot spots for terrorist activity in our country, in New Jersey, New York metropolitan area. And I know how effective these tools are and how necessary they are.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: OK. So, Paul, you hear Chris Christie there saying that this is a very effective tool. What's your response?

PAUL: This is why we have elections. This is why we have campaigns. I mean, obviously, I'm a Democrat, I don't agree with any of the Republicans. But more importantly, they are doing their country and party a big service.

Your interview with Senator Rand Paul, he is controvertibly opposed to this. He's going to use his power to filibuster the Section 2015 of the Patriot Act. It's up for reauthorization now. It's coming to a Senate now, and we will have a great debate. Governor Christie says, look, I use these tools, they're wonderful. Rand Paul says no, they're outside of the Constitution. The Founding Fathers would be disgusted.

This is politics at its best. I hate to say this as a Democrat. But this is the kind of campaign about ideas that I think the American people ought to get.

[08:20:01] CAMEROTA: OK, Ana, before I get you response let's play what Rand Paul said about his GOP rivals and their impressions of the NSA.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL: Yes, they are wrong. I mean, the privacy commission recently came out and originally the government said 52 people have been captured through this bulk collection of records, but when the privacy committee looks at this and when the Senate committee looking at this, they found nobody that was actually captured by the bulk collection of records.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: And you also have on the other side, though, and something that Alisyn pointed out very deftly in the interview --

CAMEROTA: Thank you.

CUOMO: -- was that Rand Paul can't say about how many innocents have been caught up wrongly by monitoring also.

So, you have this pendulum swinging back between privacy and being on top of the threat, Ana, and what do you think is the winning position for a politician?

ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, not for every politician, but look, I think he is doing this out of conviction. This is something that has been a rift of his from day one. I almost sense envy in Paul Begala talking about the heated debate and diversity we thought we're going to have in the Republican debate, while they are stuck in an arranged marriage where they're going to be -- their choices are vanilla and vanilla.

And -- you know, I think it's going to be a very interesting debate, you are going to see that. You are going to see Chris Christie on one side and Lindsay Graham on one side. You're going to see Rand Paul on the other.

What he is doing is smart, because that is his niche, that is his principle, his conviction, and because it's a way of him distinguishing himself from the rest of the pack, and, look, when you have a pack that is going to be 14, 15 to start with, him carving out a niche is a smart political strategy.

CUOMO: Begala, though, I must say, is more of a Peach Melba guy, from experience. That's important to note.

(LAUGHTER)

CUOMO: And, you know, I have to be honest --

BEGALA: Peach Begala was my stage name when I was --

CUOMO: There it is. And what kind of stage we won't discuss.

Begala, the important thing here, though, and to extend the eating metaphor, is that this Rand Paul is eating your lunch a little bit when it comes to security because the left is known to be on the privacy side of this issue. So, what's the move?

BEGALA: I think that's what makes it interesting. I think first as a substantive matter, you are right, the right and the left sort of meet up in criticizing the bulk collection of data, and concerns the government is spying on the calls we make.

And I think the challenge for Dr. Paul, Senator Paul, will be for to take that and use it to expand the electorate. If he just runs among traditional Republicans, he's likely to lose. But I think his strategy, and it's a smart one, is -- well, let's expand that file a little bit. Let's see if we can get leftist to come over and vote in the Republican primary, and I don't think it will work but it's the kind of ideas we ought to be talking about.

CAMEROTA: Ana, let's talk about how he knows -- he says -- Rand Paul -- that there are misconceptions about him, that people think he is an isolationist, people think that he is against intervention of all kinds. So, he clarifies that. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL: See, this is what people misunderstand sometimes about my positions. I'm all for going after terrorists, I'm all for the NSA looking at records. But they need to look at records of individuals. This is about the Fourth Amendment. The Fourth Amendments says the name must be on the warrant.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: So, he doesn't want it to be as big of a wide net casts, and he wants names on warrants and then he is all for it.

NAVARRO: You know, the problem is he has been labeled an isolationist. And he chose a heck of a bad time to be labeled an isolationist because when he started, that's where a lot of the Republican and a lot f the country was.

But since then, things have changed. ISIS has changed the perception of foreign policy certainly in the Republican party and we have seen a return of the hawks and a more vigorous policy. So, he's kind of found himself as odd man out and he needs to change that perception in order to expand that base.

His other choice is to do kind of like what his dad did, who brought in a lot of young people and a lot of people who traditionally would not have voted in a Republican primary, and brought them in to vote. But that didn't give him the win. He needs to continue growing that piece of the pie.

CUOMO: Maybe successful though if those young people are going to be ones to fight any future engagements the U.S. --

NAVARRO: I've got -- I've got to stop making food references today between ice cream and pie, I am into a la mode. Can you tell I'm hungry?

CUOMO: I like it.

CAMEROTA: Yes, it's breakfast time. You're so right.

All right. Paul, Ana, go get some breakfast. Thanks so much.

CUOMO: You're delicious!

NAVARRO: Thank you, Alisyn. Thank you, Chris.

CAMEROTA: Thank you so much.

Let's go to Michaela.

PEREIRA: All right, Alisyn.

At the height of tensions between police and communities, NYPD Officer Wenjian Liu paid the ultimate price when he was shot to death in his patrol car.

[08:25:00] His widow joins us this morning on NEW DAY, speaking out for the first time about policing in America and how she is coping with her loss.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: These are tough times for the police and for the people who love them. Last year in America, 131 cops died in the line of duty.

The NYPD's Wenjian Liu was one of them. Officer Liu's widow Pei Xia Chen is speaking out for the first time since his death, along with Frank Siller. Now, he's chairman and CEO of the Stephen Sillier Tunnel to Towers Foundation. Very important work.

But I want to remind you of what happened here in New York that took place just five months ago and involved this officer and his partner.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO (voice-over): Five days before Christmas, 2014, New York City Police Officers Wenjian Liu and Raphael Ramos are on-duty in Brooklyn when a Baltimore man Ishmael Brinsley approaches their car and without provocation opens fire.

BILL BRATTON, NYPD COMMISSIONER: But were ambushed and murdered.

Authorities say they never even had a chance to draw their weapons. The gunman later said to be mentally ill claims on social media the shootings would be a kind of revenge for the deaths of Michael Brown and Eric Gardner.

The details surrounding their deaths only adding to the tension around the nation between police and disadvantaged communities. In a final salute to fallen Officer Liu, some 25,000 police officers from across the country lined the streets in solidarity. Displaying strength in the days after her husband's murder, Liu's spoke out about the tragedy.