Return to Transcripts main page

CNN NEWSROOM

Op-Ed: Biker Coverage Shows Double Standard on Race; Massive Airbag Recall Is Largest in History; Washington Mansion Murders Being Compared to Connecticut Pettite Murders; Robert Kraft Responds to Deflategate; David Letterman Says Good Night. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired May 19, 2015 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[14:30:00] HARRY HOUCK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: From the sociological perspective that falls into your -- rhetoric that you spew regarding this stuff --

(CROSSTALK)

SALLY KOHN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Listen, if are you blaming --

HOUCK: Not at all. That is part of the pathology.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Let's get back.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Hang on. Let's go back to your point. You're right, where do we go from here? Where do we go?

HOUCK: We have to start could like you see all the conflicts going on in Saudi Arabia and all of the Middle Eastern countries, whatever happened 1,000 years ago, stop. Let's move from here. Let's get the discussion --

(CROSSTALK)

HOUCK: You know what I'm talking about. You're a smart man.

CHARLES BLOW, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You're smarter than what you sound like now.

HOUCK: Let me tell you, we've got to go forward from here. Quick looking at the past. Let's learn from the past. But move forward and work together.

BALDWIN: Who's working together --

(CROSSTALK)

HOUCK: Everybody's got to stop pointing the fingers --

(CROSSTALK) HOUCK: It's your fault. My fault. You did it. You started the riot, I didn't -- you know, Democrats have been running Baltimore for 50 years. I mean, come on. We have to stop that. We've got to move forward.

KOHN: I don't think anyone disagrees about moving forward.

(CROSSTALK)

KOHN: No. The problem is when you have a different analysis of what the problem is in the present. When your analysis says, look, the fact black people are talked about differently in the media; black people are talked about differently when they commit crimes, that black people are talked about differently when they don't commit crimes. Look at how we smeared victims of police violence who are black. Whether we -- when you say that that's because they deserve it, because of the culture or the community, that is part of the problem that needs to be --

(CROSSTALK)

BLOW: Sociological, when you say it's a sociological issue, that's a problem. When you look at places like Ferguson, you talk about the idea of missing black --

(CROSSTALK)

BLOW: I want to finish that --

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Let him finish. Let him finish.

BLOW: Let me finish this point. Issues like Ferguson and it's a microcosm of what's happening in America. We talk about missing black men. That is part of that is about mass incarceration. And it is disproportionate with African-American men. And when you look --

(CROSSTALK)

BLOW: I'm sorry. Can I finish? Do you want to jump in and start?

HOUCK: Go ahead.

BLOW: Because I will let you do that, too.

HOUCK: Go ahead.

BLOW: You look at that mass incarceration rate, you look at the people of marriage age in Ferguson, there are two black women for every black man in that population. A large part of that has to do with mass incarceration and what the Justice Department shows is the police department was targeting African-Americans in that community. We cannot as a society say, oh, this is just you choosing not to get married, or you choosing just to have kids. No, that's not exactly what it is. That is not the whole of what it is. It is not pathology or sociological only, to use your word. It is a system of oppression in this country. When you do not recognize that it is a system of oppression in this country, then you are willfully blind.

BALDWIN: You get the final, Harry. The final word.

HOUCK: All you do is look for excuses.

BLOW: That's fine.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Let's not insult, gentlemen.

HOUCK: That's what I say. We're not going to agree on this issue at all here.

BALDWIN: We don't have to agree. We don't have to agree.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: That's why we have you all on. I want -- final word, Harry Houck.

HOUCK: I worked the streets --

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: I know you did, for many years.

HOUCK: For a very long time. I've seen what's wrong in communities, and seen politicians not even look at these communities. All the money goes somewhere else. It doesn't go into the community. So I don't know what the problem is. I know there's crime there. If you're in a black or Hispanic or white neighborhood, people aren't going to be arrested in those neighborhoods that are of that color. And just say, all right, mostly blacks are being targeted by white police officers in a black neighborhood --

(CROSSTALK)

BLOW: Who's committing the crime?

(CROSSTALK)

KOHN: In New York, in New York we -- there's been a lawsuit, there was a ruling this the New York police disproportionately and unfairly were targeting young black men for Stop and Frisk. This is not invented.

(CROSSTALK)

HOUCK: I don't agree with that ruling. I read the ruling --

(CROSSTALK)

HOUCK: That's not fact. That is that judge's opinion. She presented the fact --

(CROSSTALK)

KOHN: By the way, we covered it --

(CROSSTALK)

HOUCK: I read the Ferguson report. The same thing --

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Guys -- guys, guys, guys.

BLOW: I know that ruling.

BALDWIN: We'll continue this. This is clearly -- I feel your passion, from feet away, here. This is obviously something we have to keep in the spotlight, part of the national conversation, agreeing to disagree. History does matter. And moving forward matters a lot.

Harry Houck, Charles Blow, Sally Kohn.

Please, send tweets after this massive discussion.

I don't think I've had a chat like this in a while. I thank you very much for that.

@BrookebCNN, let me know what you think.

I appreciate all three of you coming on and your honesty.

Coming up next, details on what is being described --

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

BALDWIN: Thanks, guys.

Details on what's being described as the largest auto recall in history, involving air bags. What you need to know, coming up.

Also, new clues in the mansion murder mystery unfolding in this upscale neighborhood in the nation's capital around the corner from the vice president. Why this case draws comparisons to the 2007 deadly home invasion in Connecticut.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:37:18] BALDWIN: Just into CNN, this massive auto recall involving faulty air bags made by the Takeda Corporation has just gotten really huge. In fact, this turned into the largest auto recall ever.

I have Peter Valdes joining me. He writes for all things auto on CNNmoney.com. And so the largest auto recall ever. This is a big, big deal.

PETER VALDES-DAPENA, CNNMONEY.COM DIGITAL CORRESPONDENT: By a big margin.

BALDWIN: What are we talking about?

VALDES-DAPENA: I think 38 million potential recalls at this point that have these air bags in them. Now, the total recall may not actually end up being that big. It could be scaled back if they find some don't need to be recalled. Could be bigger because at this point it's an estimated number. It is by far the biggest auto recall ever.

BALDWIN: What's the issue?

VALDES-DAPENA: The issue is that these air bags, like all air bag, have an inflater inside, a pellet of solid material that gets an electric current when there's a crash, and it sends out gas. Basically there's a chemical reaction that sends out gas, and it inflates the bag in milliseconds. The thing itself is not supposed to explode, which is what's happening in this case. It's just sending out gas -- explodes sending metal shrapnel into the car. Some of the people who have been killed have looked like they've gotten shot or stabbed because of thing going through their body. It's a scary scenario. Fortunately, still very uncommon, even in these cars. But it's a scary thing to think about.

BALDWIN: If people want more information, did you write this up for CNN Money?

VALDES-DAPENA: We have a story on CNN Money. My colleague wrote the story. You can go to CNNmoney.com and safercar.gov for questions about any recalls. That's where there's recall information. Check it out.

BALDWIN: Peter, thank you.

VALDES-DAPENA: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Investigators in the nation's capital are still working a murder mystery that claimed the lives of a Washington CEO, his wife, 10-year-old son, and housekeeper. The family lived in this upscale neighborhood blocks from the home of Vice President Joe Biden. There along embassy row. The Housekeeper was one of two maids who worked for the family. Police say the House was set on fire after the victims were assaulted. There are no suspects.

But police have identified this person of interest. Detectives say they're trying to find this person -- this hooded figure mean? This surveillance video. The story brings to mind a very high-profile triple homicide that happened eight years ago in another upscale neighborhood. That one in Connecticut, the Cheshire Murders, as they became known. Family of four, the Pettites, was terrorized in this home invasion. The husband in this case did escape. His wife and two young daughters were brutally raped and murdered. And that house was also set on fire. But in this case, the killers were caught pretty immediately. In the deadly investigation was made into an HBO documentary.

Here with me, the filmmaker for "The Cheshire Murders," David Heilbroner.

David, thanks for joining me.

[14:40:24] DAVID HEILBRONER, FILMMAKER: Hey, Brooke. Thanks for having me.

BALDWIN: When we first heard about the D.C. story, we thought about -- I thought about the Pettites. And I want you to walk through -- because the circumstances are eerily similar, we wanted to talk to you. Based upon what you know, what happened in Connecticut, what do you think the first steps are that investigators are taking? From what I understand, you can still gather a lot of information and evidence in a torched home.

HEILBRONER: Oh, yeah. I mean, in Cheshire, the Pettites' home that burned down became an enormous crime scene. Investigators worked it for weeks if not a solid month. They're going to have to do the same in D.C. They're going to have to cordon off the area and go over all the charred remains. A gruesome task and painstaking. They'll look for DNA evidence, fibers. Also what happened. In Cheshire, what happened. We know the perpetrator or perpetrators entered the house Wednesday night and left Thursday morning. We have this enormous stretch of time where the family is held hostage. We know the family was alive until 10:00 a.m. Thursday. They're going to have to re- create everything that happened in the house. That's going to be a long, inductive process of reasoning.

BALDWIN: I know there were text messages sent. I went through some of the similarities. What other similarities do you see?

HEILBRONER: Well, the similarities actually are bothersome because you almost think it might be a copycat crime. They're so similar. You know, we start with the fact that this is a perfect suburban family in a perfect suburban neighborhood. Both houses had security systems. So -- they were entered without triggering the system. This is a professional murder. Professional burglary at least. There was the night of terror that ensued, holding a family hostage for a night.

BALDWIN: We have not confirmed that yet. Holding them overnight.

HEILBRONER: No, except that you know that voice messages were sent by the family Wednesday evening and also Thursday morning. So we don't know they were held there. But --

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: That's right.

HEILBRONER: It's a fair -- a fair assumption at this point. The family were apparently forced to send calls and texts in the morning to the second housekeeper saying don't come in. What happened in the Pettite case? Since we know they were alive at 10:00 and dead by 1:30 when the firefighters came, they died through blunt force trauma or stab wounds. We know the murders happened quickly, within an hour or two, just as it happened in the Pettite murders. Then the perpetrators torched the home and sped off in the family vehicle. That's -- those are a lot of points of similarity. These are crimes that happened once a decade.

BALDWIN: But I'm -- unfortunately, it happened at all. But with the Pettite case, weren't those two caught as they -- torching the home, leaving, caught. Unlike this case.

HEILBRONER: They sped on and off a car. By the time they got in the car, police surrounded the House. They crashed, tried to get away. Ultimately the car was stopped by a second barricade, and they were arrested. They were caught red-handed. Here, the killer or killers are still at large. We don't know if there were two or three people. After all, someone entered the house and held a group of four people at bay. It's hard to imagine one person doing that alone.

BALDWIN: They say they don't have suspects. Maybe a person of interest.

David, thank you very much for weighing in. I appreciate it.

HEILBRONER: My pleasure. Thank you.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, the owner of the New England Patriots, Bob Kraft, responding to -- moments ago -- to Deflategate, Tom Brady's suspension, and how the team will handle its penalties.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:47:44] BALDWIN: Your 2015 Super Bowl champions, New England Patriots, will not be appealing their Deflategate punishment. Team owner, Robert Kraft, announced the decision at the NFL spring meeting. The Pats were fined $1 million and denied two draft picks, all of this after the league's independent investigation concluded that Tom Brady most likely knew that two Patriots employees were probably involved in deflating the footballs for the AFC championship game, which they won. Kraft told reporters today that he, quote, unquote, "reluctantly accepts the decision."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT KRAFT, OWNER, THE NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS: I don't want to continue the rhetoric that's gone on for the last four months. I'm going to accept reluctantly what he has given to us and not continue this dialogue and rhetoric. And we won't appeal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: It's clear, though, to differentiate, you have the team and then you have Tom Brady.

We'll get to both with Brian Socolow, sports attorney, back to talk Pats with me.

When you heard Bob Kraft say, "I'm accepting, reluctantly," why do you think he's saying this? Why is he saying I'm not going to fight this?

BRIAN SOCOLOW, SPORTS ATTORNEY: He can't say that Goodell was right and the penalties are justified. He has to put. A good front and say they're not justified, i'll reluctantly accept them. Behind the scenes, he knew what was going. On he would have to go to court, it would be ugly to f he fought the penalties. He probably realized it's better to move on, put it in the past, do the good thing for the NFL, accept the penalties, and say he's going to go ahead and accept them and move forward with the Patriots.

BALDWIN: That means the team will pay the $1 million. They'll lose those first round draft pick or ultimately two draft picks. This is separate from tom braid whoa is supposed to be -- Tom Brady who is supposed to be suspended for the games. The first game he would be playing would be against the Colts, who they beat in the AFC championship game. Goodell oversees that.

SOCOLOW: Goodell oversees that, that's right.

BALDWIN: Which I find interesting. He's tight with Bob Kraft.

SOCOLOW: Kraft, even though he is tight with Goodell, he decided not to fight it. Tom Brady is making the choice. Is he going to fight it?

BALDWIN: What do you think he'll do?

[14:50:00] SOCOLOW: I think he'll continue with the appeal. For Tom Brady, it may be more serious than for the Patriots. It's his reputation that's at stake. The report didn't say that the Patriots' senior management, Bob Kraft or Bill Belichick, they did anything wrong. It was these lower level employees. But the finger of squarely pointed at Tom Brady. That's his reputation as the all- American hero. So if he just goes ahead and says, I'll accept penalties, too, that might be an admission that he was involved. He probably doesn't want that for his reputation.

So I think you'll see him continue to appeal. I do think it gives an opening to see, look, if the Patriots decided that they -- Patriots decided that they were going reluctantly move on, I've won the Super Bowl four times, I'm big enough to take this and accept the penalties myself, I'll move on, too. Maybe we'll see that outcome.

BALDWIN: All right. And everyone up in New England will be donning the free Tom Brady T-shirt, I am sure.

Brian Socolow, thank you very much.

Next here on CNN, can't believe it, the end of an era. David Letterman signing off tomorrow night. So we will go inside the show's favorite New York City deli and talk with one of the show's favorite guests. You know this guy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: "Late Show" legend, David Letterman, signs off for good tomorrow night. Tonight at 9:00 eastern, must see TV on CNN, our own Jake Tapper hosts a special, "David Letterman Says Good Night." Jake talks with Letterman's staff, veterans, comedians that Letterman influenced.

Jake is here with me with a preview.

And I know you've been working on this for month and months.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST, THE LEAD: Yeah.

BALDWIN: And in all the research and all the interviews that you have done, what is the most surprising thing about David Letterman you came across?

TAPPER: I don't think I was aware of how much self loathing consumed him in the '80s and '90s.

BALDWIN: What do you mean?

TAPPER: He was miserable. I mean, just a miserable person, very unhappy. Tough on his staff but much tougher on himself. One of the head writers we interviewed for the special, Steve O'Donnell, said he used to sit during commercial breaks and write on pieces of paper, "I hate myself," and underline, it, "I hate myself." I don't think that during the time I was watching as a junior high, high school and college student and young person, I don't think I had any idea that this guy that was so entertaining and influential in pop culture and broadcasting was so unhappy. The good news for him personally is I think he's much happier now. He is in therapy, and he takes SSRI, medication. He meditates. And apparently by all account, his son, Harry, has really been an elixir to him.

[14:55:03] BALDWIN: How old is he?

TAPPER: Harry? He's a little boy.

BALDWIN: Little guy.

TAPPER: But I mean, I think that that misery definitely helped fuel how great his comedy was. Wasn't necessarily that great for him personally.

BALDWIN: Right. Wow. I know that you're buddies with Stephen Colbert, replacing him in the fall. So how do you think that transition will work?

TAPPER: Well, I think it will be interesting. You know, when Colbert was first told that he'd gotten the show, he and I were actually at the White House Correspondents Dinner. He got up, excused himself, came back like 40 minutes later. He said, "I signed a deal to do my own show." My reaction, like a jerk was, are you going to be able to do that character for a half-hour?

BALDWIN: That's what everybody wants to know.

TAPPER: Are you going to be able to do that character for a half- hour?

BALDWIN: But he's not doing it.

TAPPER: Clearly, he was able to do that character for a full half- hour. Now the question, can he be himself for a full hour. Knowing him, I can tell you, yes, he's a charming, very funny, clever guy. I'm certainly not going to cast aspersions having been so wrong 10 years ago. He will be able to do it. He'll be great.

One of the things that Letterman did is he broke all the rules. And so in that way, he paved the way everybody to do shows around their own talents, whether Seth Myers, Conan O'Brien, Jimmy Kimmel, I do shows around them. It used to be a set kind of show. When Carson did it, he was the best at it. But it was everybody did the same kind of show, Dick Cavett, Merv Griffin, Johnny Carson. Letterman said, boom, we're exploding it, we're going to do whatever we want.

BALDWIN: We do have a surprise -- I want you to play along, Tapper.

TAPPER: OK.

BALDWIN: If you know the show, you know Rupert Jee, owner of Hello Deli, right there in the building.

Rupert, it's a pleasure. It's an honor to meet you, to have you live on CNN.

Can you tell me -- do you remember when you first met Dave?

RUPERT JEE, OWNER, HELLO DELI: The first time they came into the deli was -- it was a surprise. They just brought the camera in and gave me a visit. But I didn't get to see him until they had me come on stage for a standing ovation that day.

BALDWIN: Hang on a second. When they -- they first rolled up into your deli, you had no idea that you would be on TV?

JEE: No, I -- I didn't. I thought -- I was ready to close down and go home. The camera came in. You know, he interviewed me for a few minutes. And to top it off, he asked me to come on stage for a standing ovation.

BALDWIN: Were you nervous?

JEE: Oh, very nervous. Before that happened, I told him I didn't want to be on television actually.

BALDWIN: This is what happens when you have a deli in the building, a stone's throw from David Letterman. You're sort of, I guess, stuck.

I don't know if you have anything for him, Tapper?

TAPPER: I wondered, how has David Letterman changed your life?

JEE: Oh, he's changed my life immensely. Aside from the financial benefits, I couldn't have paid for this type of advertising. He's given me adventures, a lot of memories. Who would have known I've been on television for 22 years?

TAPPER: Are you going to be tomorrow night?

BALDWIN: Are you part of the last show?

JEE: Not that I know of. You never know --

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: You never know.

JEE: Until the same day anyway. No, it's always a surprise. It's better that way because it's less to worry about.

BALDWIN: Rupert, do you hang out with David Letterman outside of your surprise TV spots? Do you have a friendship with him?

JEE: No. No, we don't. No.

TAPPER: He never took you to the ranch in Montana?

BALDWIN: Never bought you a Paul Schaefer sandwich at your deli?

JEE: Oh, no. Never.

(LAUGHTER)

TAPPER: What does it mean -- when you say aside from the financial benefits -- I know you've done things for the show? Do people come to your store because they know you from Letterman? Have you noticed a marked increase in profits since Dave takes a fancy to you?

BALDWIN: A fancy?

JEE: Yeah. No, that's the incredible thing about the exposure. It's not just restricted to the United States. I've had people from as far as Australia come over.

BALDWIN: Global celebrity in our midst. We can only dream. We can only dream, Rupert.

Final question -- do any of the celebrities who come on the show, have you had any celebrities come in and grab a sandwich in the deli?

JEE: Oh, yeah. Many times.

BALDWIN: Give me a favorite --

(CROSSTALK)

JEE: -- by Penn and Teller. Huh?

BALDWIN: I was asking for your favorite.

JEE: Sorry? Oh, my favorite celebrity?

[15:00:02] BALDWIN: Yes, sir.

JEE: I would say Mia Farrow. She was very nice. Mia Farrow, she was very nice. Very kind. She was a very kind woman, Mia Farrow.

BALDWIN: OK. I'll take your word for it.

Global celebrity Rupert Jee of David Letterman fame, thank you so much for allowing our cameras in your deli today. It was a treat.