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CNN NEWSROOM

Amtrak Crash Raises Safety Concerns; Tsarnaev Jury Deliberations; Tom Brady Has Until 5PM to Appeal; America's Crumbling Infrastructure. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired May 14, 2015 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[09:30:00] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to both of you.

BOB FRANCIS, FORMER VICE CHAIRMAN, NTSB: Thank you.

COSTELLO: Bob, I want to start with you, because you've investigated crashes before. Have you ever had an engineer say, I just don't remember what happened?

FRANCIS: I can't recall that, no.

COSTELLO: Do you believe his engineer when -- well his lawyer says -- do you believe this lawyer who says his client cannot remember anything but eventually his memory may return?

FRANCIS: I guess, and I'm not an expert in this, but I find that a little difficult to believe. He was -- he was not unconscious. What happens to the memory? I mean maybe that can happen, but -- but I'm a little skeptical.

COSTELLO: And, Andrew, I know you're a little skeptical, too, because this engineer spent six hours with police supposedly talking about this accident.

ANDREW MALONEY, TRANSPORTATION ACCIDENT AUTHORITY: Yes, I'm very skeptical. In fact, if you listen to the statements that his lawyer made, he actually said that the engineer remembers going into the curve, remembers applying the brakes, doesn't remember anything after that. Well, after that we know what happened, it derailed and there was a violent catastrophe that killed at least seven people. So what the lawyer has said, he already has admitted he remembers the important pieces of information that we want to know about.

COSTELLO: And, Bob, you know, as -- as you're investigating a crash like this, you're not getting any cooperation now from the engineer, but you know the train was traveling at about 106 miles per hour when it approached that curve. So from what you can ascertain by watching this over the past day or so, how do you suppose the accident went down?

FRANCIS: The one thing that I'm not totally clear on, and maybe you can educate me, is 105 or 100 plus normal for riding the northeast corridor when the road is straight? COSTELLO: I think that the speed limit, prior to that curve, you could

go 100 miles per hour. But as you approach this curve, you had to slow down at 50 miles per hour. And supposedly the train was going 106 miles per hour, the engineer then slammed on the emergency brakes and then the speed was 102 miles per hour when that train derailed.

FRANCIS: What I don't understand is why this particular train doesn't have some of the technology that's available to automatically start to brake? And I guess this is a question of Amtrak resources. And that's -- that brings up, I guess, the larger issue of, how much -- how much are we investing in Amtrak as taxpayers to try to make sure that we've got a first-class system. You compare Amtrak to the rail systems in France or Germany or other places in the world, it's -- it's a disgrace.

COSTELLO: I know. I think that China is spending over $100 million on its public transportation as in trains. And, of course, the United States spends much less than that.

But, Bob, I know that there was supposed to have that special things on the trains that slow it down as it approaches curves by the end of 2015, but they may not meet that goal because there's simply no money left.

FRANCIS: Well, then you -- then you really get back to public policymakers and politics. You know, what does it take to generate more funds being put into a rail system that will then, one would hope, would be encouraging people to take rail rather than jumping into their cars all the time?

COSTELLO: Andrew, might all of this play into the case that this engineer's lawyer will present?

MALONEY: Absolutely. Frankly, if I were a train engineer, I'd want this Positive Train Control to help me in case I made a mistake. He obviously screwed up here. And I -- just to echo what Mr. Francis was saying, this positive control technology that exists, Amtrak is using in other parts. But this is the busiest corridor in the United States. This is the place where you'd want to put it in first. Why they didn't do that, I don't know. Possibly a mismanagement issue, as well as a funding issue.

COSTELLO: So Amtrak, according -- Amtrak, in your mind, is in big trouble when it comes to maybe civil lawsuits or --

MALONEY: Absolutely. There's going to be civil lawsuits. They're going to be liable for the -- vicariously liable for the acts of their engineer. They may have liability on management decisions on not to use the positive control technology in the busiest section of the rails in the United States. There may be a criminal investigation and prosecution of the engineer for criminally negligent homicide or manslaughter. Those are all things that are coming down the road.

COSTELLO: Andrew Maloney, Bob Francis, thanks to both of you. I appreciate it. [09:34:54] Tom Brady has just hours to appeal a four-game suspension

over that deflate-gate controversy. Up next, we'll tell you about the man who is set to defend him and why he's being called the NFL's worst enemy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: The same jury that convicted the Boston bomber is meeting right now to decide whether he lives or dies. Sentencing deliberations for Dzhokhar Tsarnaev underway in what's been a lengthy and heart- wrenching trial. Jury selection began back in January. Two months later, opening statements. Record snow would then delay testimony through much of March. On April 8th, Tsarnaev was finally found guilty on all 30 counts, 17 of those carrying capital murder charges. And now we're waiting to learn his fate.

Deborah Feyerick is outside the courthouse in Boston.

Good morning.

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning there, Carol.

And this is the verdict form that the jury is going to have to go over, 24 pages of it, deciding what they feel is the right punishment for Dzhokhar Tsarnaev. And yesterday during closing arguments, really both sides hit three key points. One of them is, really, what is the appropriate punishment? Prosecutors say that based on the manifesto, his intention was to kill people using a weapon of mass destruction and he did it with premeditation and therefore death is the right answer. But Tsarnaev's lawyers say, look, either way you cut it, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev dies in prison and that they're asking for life because it's not a lesser sentence, it's simply another sentence.

[09:39:56] The role of the brother, that is really key. That was what all the mitigating factors are about. The lawyer, Tsarnaev's, says, if it weren't for Tamerlan, none of this would have happened. However, prosecutors say, look, they were partners in crime, so it's not a mitigating factor whether, in fact, you know, Tamerlan was the leader, Tamerlan was the driving force in this. Prosecutors believe that -- that they were equal.

The third thing is remorse. Prosecutors say he simply doesn't have any. That, in fact, this was a terrorist attack. He deserves death. But Tsarnaev's lawyers say that, in fact, he is remorseful. That over the past two years, when he met with the nun, he was genuinely sorry for what he did, even saying that nobody deserves to suffer like that. So these are all sort of the emotional factors and the factual evidence factors that the jury is going to have to consider when they make their decision, Carol.

COSTELLO: And I know the jurors got this questionnaire. What kind of questions are on that questionnaire?

FEYERICK: Well, you know, it's -- the questionnaire really deals with aggravating factors, gateway factors and the mitigating factors. And so all of that has to be looked at in its entirety. And the aggravating factors, you know, it's very interesting because the judge spent an awful lot of time yesterday in court going over each and every one of them. But when Judy Clark, Tsarnaev's lawyer, got up and spoke, really she said, look, let's be clear, you already decided all of the aggravating factors when you sentenced him to guilt. And her strategy there was, don't focus so much really on the aggravating factors because you've already decided. Focus on the mitigating factors. It's the mitigating factors that could potentially outweigh and therefore provide the jury a reason to give him life in prison without parole. And so that's really what they're focused on right now. Some people think it will take two days. Some people think it will take two weeks. Unclear.

COSTELLO: All right, Deborah Feyerick reporting live in Boston this morning.

Patriot's star Tom Brady has just under eight hours to appeal that four-game suspension, but can his all-star lawyer beat the NFL? We'll talk about that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:45:45] COSTELLO: The clock is ticking for Patriots' star quarterback, Tom Brady. He has until 5:00 Eastern today to appeal the NFL's penalty of a four game suspension over Deflategate. The Patriots star will be represented by this man, Jeffrey Kessler. In the words of the "Boston Herald", Kessler is the NFL's worst enemy. He's helped overturn suspensions for troubled players including Ray Rice and Adrian Peterson.

Despite the brewing showdown, Patriots Nation seems to be stronger than ever. Earlier this week, the Pats changed their Twitter photo to Brady's jersey. There's even GoFundMe page set up by fans to help pay the team's $1 million fine. But it is this YouTube clip that caught our attention.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's probable they knew about Deflategate. It's also probable that I don't give a (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What the hell is a preponderance of evidence?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If I am Brady, I come out next year and my uniform number is 12.5.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know why Brady didn't want to turn over his cell phone. hot Gisele pics, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm the rest of America. Is this ball regulation?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: I can't help but laugh. OK, joining me now to discuss more serious issues surrounding Deflategate, CNN's sports anchor Andy Scholes. I'm also joined by someone who knows the appeals process well, sports attorney, Ellen Zavian. Thanks to both of you for joining me.

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Hey, Carol.

ELLEN ZAVIAN, SPORTS ATTORNEY: Thank you.

COSTELLO: So, Andy, tell us about the NFL's worst enemy, Mr. Kessler.

SCHOLES: Well, yes, worst enemy is a good way to put it, Carol. He's really the NFL's arch nemesis. He's the Players' Association go to guy for cases like this. He represented the Players' Association back in the '90s, got the free agency system that we know now put in place. He helped end the 2011 lockout for the players. He represented the Saints players during Bountygate, Adrian Peterson, Ray Rice. And he's won in all of these instances, Carol.

And a big thing that I saw yesterday put out there was by ESPN's Adam Schefter. He is saying, a source tells him that Tom Brady's -- his closet of lawyers with Kessler, Don Yee, and what not, they're so powerful and so good, that he's predicting that Tom Brady is not only going to have his suspension overturned, he's going to end up serving zero games. He epxects him to be on the field against the Steelers Week 1. That's how powerful of a group Tom Brady has representing him.

COSTELLO: Ellen. Ellen, is that possible?

ZAVIAN: I don't know. I worked at the NFLPA and I saw many of Kessler's bills coming off the fax machine in '87 when we worked through the strikes, so I think there is some - I don't know, there is definitely some truth to that statement.

COSTELLO: Really? So why hasn't Tom Brady just gone ahead and filed an appeal? Why is he waiting so long, Ellen?

ZAVIAN: Well, the union has a process, and as an employee of the union, and the league, they must exhaust the appeal process as it is in the bylaws and the collective bargaining agreement.

But simultaneously, what makes this case most interesting is Kessler will likely file a court case to dispute three areas. The three areas will be the conflict of interest by Wells, the investigator. I do think that will fail because the investigator revealed their conflicts to the Patriots and Brady, and there was no indication from them that they wanted him to be dismissed or replaced at the time.

Secondly, they will definitely look at the bylaws and there are certain clauses in the NFL bylaws that could be considered conflicting because the commissioner has certain powers in the appeal process, overseeing his own decision, and simultaneously he does have an interest in the league because his bonuses are attached to how well the league does the preceding year.

The last issue is most fascinating, which is a Missouri case that happened in 2013, which Kessler and his team will argue should apply in Massachusetts. And that case was brought by an employee of an NFL team in Missouri, and the judge there at the appeals level stated that the commissioner's powers to appeal were unconscionable and they invalidated his powers completely.

[09:50:00] So obviously, Kessler's team is going to talk about applying that appeals decision in the Massachusetts level.

COSTELLO: Okay. So, Andy, the NFL will have a team with pretty good lawyers itself, right?

SCHOLES: You would imagine. And they have the Ted Wells report on their side. Ted Wells, he held that conference call yesterday, coming out and saying he wasn't biased at all. This was just his beliefs based on the evidence that he found. And so it's going to be very interesting to see how this plays out with both sides arguing both points, and whether or not Tom Brady is going to have to show his hand. Because he is the one appealing, so is he going to have to actually end up turning over any evidence to show that he was, in fact, innocent in this case.

COSTELLO: We'll see. It's interesting. Andy Scholes, Ellen Zavian, thanks to both of you. I appreciate it.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, deadly train crashes in the northeast corridor, the country's busiest, are on the rise. Does America need to fix its aging infrastructure? We'll take a closer next.

And coming up on the next hour, would Jeb Bush have gone to war with Iraq? His answers have varied this week and it's creating a lot of headaches for him. Will it kill his chances to become President of the United States? We'll talk about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: At noon Eastern Time, Philadelphia's mayor is holding a press conference on the latest on that Amtrak derailment. It's no surprise that the Amtrak accident is raising new concerns about the safety of train travel.

CNN's Suzanne Malveaux takes a closer look at our nation's infrastructure.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Tuesday's Amtrak crash is just the latest in a string of horrifying accidents on U.S. rails.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All of a sudden, in the blink of an eye, I went from one side of the train to the other side of the train.

MALVEAUX: According to the Federal Railroad Administration, on average there have been 31 Amtrak train derailments a year of varying degrees since 2006.

[09:55:02] So far there have been nine this year prior to the most recent incident.

And while Amtrak owns and operates about 80 percent of the 457 miles of track between Washington and Boston called the northeast corridor, some of the most recent fatal crashes have involved commuter trains operated by others.

In February, just north of New York City, a Metro North commuter train slammed into a vehicle that was stopped on the tracks, killing the driver and six commuters. In December 2013, federal safety officials say a Metro North train jumped the tracks in Bronx, New York, as it barreled around a cruve, traveling three times the posted speed, killing four.

With more than 11 million passengers traveling along the northeast corridor between Washington and Boston each year, it has become one of the busiest, most complex and technically advanced rail systems in the world.

Engineering Professor George Bibel says while traveling by train is largely safe, passengers should be more concerned about the state of the tracks than speeding engineers.

PROFESSOR GEORGE BIBEL, UNIV. OF NORTH DAKOTA: While most derailments are caused by equipment error, rail problems are a common one. Rails can fracture from metal fatigue or they can move around and shift or anything else that moves. Common ones are wheels, bearings and axles.

MALVEAUX: Coincidentally the site of Tuesday's crash in Philadelphia is in the same area where the nation saw one of its deadliest train accidents in history. In 1943, a train traveling from Washington to New York went off the tracks, killing 79 people.

Suzanne Malveaux, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM after a break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)