Return to Transcripts main page

NEW DAY

Five Dead in Philadelphia Amtrak Crash; Report: North Korea Executes Defense Minister; No Charges Against Madison Police Officer. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired May 13, 2015 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

[05:58:22] CHRIS CUOMO, CO-HOST: This is NEW DAY. I'm Chris Cuomo in Philadelphia. And of course, we do have breaking news of a horrific train accident. Alisyn and Michaela are in New York. And this is one of the deadliest train crashes in recent memory. Pictures will tell the story here. Words just cannot capture the situation adequately.

Right now there are hundreds of first responders. They've been working through the night. We still don't know if all of the 240-plus passengers on this Amtrak train from D.C. to New York City are accounted for.

What we do know is that at least five people have lost their lives, well over 100 hospitalized. The obvious question is why. But that's going to have to wait. Right now the urgency is trying to separate the living from this unimaginably twisted wreckage. The word "derailed" doesn't come close to describing what happened here.

CNN has complete team coverage this morning. Here's the latest.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: A New York City-bound Amtrak passenger train from Washington, D.C., over 200 people onboard, derailing, rolling on its side on the tracks outside of Philadelphia. Seven cars in disarray, twisted and torn like tinfoil.

MAYOR MICHAEL NUTTER, PHILADELPHIA: It is an absolute disastrous mess. Never seen anything like this in my life.

Cuomo: At least five dead, over 100 hospitalized. Passengers described the horror as chairs and bags go flying in the air.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This huge red suitcase just came flying at me. Our train was actually on its side. There's many injured people on the train, and they're very, very upset.

CUOMO: This video shows rescues in progress. Those lucky enough to walk away in a state of shock.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I could see the blood on people's faces. They can't move. Luckily, like I'm still here, I'm still walking. I got really lucky.

CUOMO: First responders in the dark of night combing the area for injured and those unaccounted for.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've never seen anything so devastating. They're in pretty bad shape. You can see that they've completely, completely derailed from the track.

CUOMO: Helicopters hover as rescuers sift through the wreckage. Why all this happened, still unclear. Amtrak is cooperating with the NTSB, which launched a go team to assist in the investigation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As I read about things or see this on news like, oh, a plane crashes, a train derails, but you never actually think it's going to happen to you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: The scene is visually overwhelming. The challenge here is going to be for these crews that are still out there in this Port Richmond area outside Philadelphia, to find everything they can in this mangled mess of train wreckage.

It is a shock that the death toll is not ten times as high as it is right now. As we said, NTSB investigators are going to be on the sign -- the scene this morning. They're going to be searching for clues on what caused this.

Now, speed will be an obvious concern. And this curve that we'll be talking about this morning where the train derailed, it has a history. In 1943, 79 people died when a train derailed here. It's one of the deadliest crashes in history.

Now CNN's Sara Sidner is very close to the crash site. She has a look at this wreckage and also, more importantly, the investigation.

Sara, what is the latest?

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What we've been seeing all morning is investigators coming out. Some of them definitely from Amtrak, because we've been seeing their cars drive up and looking very closely at the rail all the way up to where the train derailed.

I want to give you a look at that so that you can see as far as our camera can see. You can see some of the investigators still standing there now. They've been on that spot for quite some time. And we keep seeing people go through and walk through and look very closely at the rail there, right at that really sharp turn, that curve. And you can see just past that curve, you will see the first or the -- or what turns out to be the last car that derailed of the seven cars that derailed.

We've been also watching as they had firefighters out here. They had a K-9 who jumped into that last car there, seemingly looking for anyone who was still left. And we've also been seeing someone stand at the tracks and put

down what looks like trying to measure this width in between the tracks. We're seeing that happen right now with those gentlemen who are wearing the bright orange, looking at the width of the tracks there with a device.

Really, what we know at this point in time is that somewhere past that curve, this train started to derail. We don't know which car derailed first, but we certainly know that seven of the cars did end up derailing.

The one you're seeing now is sort of leaning to the right. But there are -- there are cars that are just tipped over. They are -- one of them is so mangled, Chris, that it's hard to even recognize it as a train car. It is so completely mangled and disfigured.

And we've been hearing from those who have been inside who have described the absolute chaos that they went through as it derailed.

Also one other thing, we've talked to a couple of residents here who said they could hear it. They could hear the train coming and that it sounded like it was making loud screeching noises that they don't normally hear when they hear this train going back and forth from Washington to New York regularly. And so that may give you some indication that maybe something was wrong before it hit this curve -- Chris.

CUOMO: Yes. I mean, look, these are all the right questions that you're asking, Sara. The answers are going to come. They're probably going to come slowly because of all the intensity on the human element of this right now to find the people.

And it's a little deceptive to look at when you see these pictures, because the engine itself, the front car, seems like it was about on the right path. But you have to remember, there's such a tremendous weight difference between that car and all the other ones where the passengers sit in these cars that came off the rails. They twist and mangled so quickly.

But here the situation for the rescuers, people who've been working that site overnight, they can't even describe it except through repetition. You know, hearing these guys say, "It's bad, bad, bad, bad." The mayor, Mayor Nutter here in Philadelphia saying, "I've never seen anything like this in my life." It seems exaggerated until you see these pictures and you realize that they're dealing with something that's very difficult on a lot of levels.

Now, the obvious is that service has been suspended between New York and Philadelphia on the trains, and it's done so indefinitely because of what you see in front of you. The tracks are in ribbons right now. And this section that's known as the Northern Corridor for Amtrak is very heavily trafficked. And all regional service is going to be impacted by what happened here.

[06:05:01] So let's take a look at what hundreds of thousands who rely on trains to get around the northeast are going to deal with this morning. We have CNN's Christina Alesci looking into that for us at New York's Penn Station.

How are people coping down there with the news, let alone the reality of travel today?

CHRISTINA ALESCI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, people are just trying to figure out how they're going to get to their destination. Of course, Penn Station was supposed to be the final destination for that derailed train, Chris. And it is the busiest hub in the country.

And a major stop along the Northeast Corridor, the one that you're talking about that runs from Boston to Washington, D.C. And it is the busiest passenger line in the country.

Just to give you some size and scope here, over 750,000 trips on a daily basis. Over 2,000 passenger trains use this line on a daily basis. Sixty freight trains. So it is a heavily-trafficked corridor.

And to put even more color around this, Chris, as you know, Amtrak has been very vocal about the need for upgrades along this line. In fact, on its website it says that it is approaching the limits of capacity on this line. And it is in desperate need of rehabilitation. This is not new news in the sense that this is a line that needs more work done to it. And hopefully, you know, one outcome here would be more attention to the need for infrastructure development -- Chris.

CUOMO: Look, that's been a common complaint with a lot of different train lines, you know, the need for infrastructure. But we don't really know what happened here yet, so we're going to go slow on any type of blame that comes across. We do know that trains are allowed to go in excess of 100 miles an hour, but they're supposed to slow down when they get into commercial and residential areas like the one here where this crash occurred.

Let's talk to somebody who lived through it. Her name is Beth David. She was a passenger on the train when it derailed. How are you, sweetheart?

BETH DAVID, PASSENGER ON DERAILED TRAIN: Considering, I'm great. I mean, just like, a little shaken up. I mean, when it happened, it was just a regular ride. Like (UNINTELLIGIBLE) pretty often, D.C. to New York.

The first moment it just kind of felt like it was leaning to the right, and then you knew that it wasn't just a sharp turn.

CUOMO: Why?

DAVID: Everything -- because, I mean, everything, the car started to turn over on its side. People -- the car went dark. People and things were just kind of plummeting throughout...

CUOMO: You knew right away?

DAVID: I mean, like after the initial turn, it just kind of -- you just kind of -- it turns into slow mo. So I have no idea how long it actually was...

CUOMO: And you went to the hospital?

DAVID: Yes.

CUOMO: Because you're a little rubbed up?

DAVID: It wasn't that bad. I mean...

CUOMO: You've got a good lump, though, on the side of your head. They did some tests on you? And you're sure everything's...

DAVID: Yes. I'm fine. I mean, the thing was -- is that I were -- I was stuck at the bottom of -- I mean, we were on the third car. So we had to actually climb out the top of the window to get out.

There was people next to me. A woman was stuck underneath some seats helping another woman out who was there. Some people were helping. Some people were looking for exits. Then we started to look for an exit so we climbed out because we smelled smoke. We had to jump off the top, which was like eight feet. But like, I feel -- once I saw the other cars, you just feel thankful that like -- I mean, people weren't coming out of those cars.

CUOMO: It's amazing that so many of you made it out of what we understand right now. We know that people are still unaccounted for, but to just -- to hear that so far it is a handful of people who lost their lives. You're saying it really could have been so much worse from what you felt and what you saw.

DAVID: I mean, just kind of like looking at the first two cars. But you know, that just kind of like moment decision which car should I sit in, it seems so trivial. And I was on a phone call, so that's the reason I wasn't in the second car. I went to the third.

I mean, but that trivial decision, I mean, like, it could have -- at least provided, like, other injuries. I mean, I'm still not quite feeling -- I'm sure not going to...

CUOMO: You look a little -- you look a little shaken up, to be honest with you.

DAVID: Yes.

CUOMO: Your family knows you're OK? You've been in contact with everybody?

DAVID: I've had a full (UNINTELLIGIBLE). So yes. Everyone knows I'm fine.

CUOMO: And you've given yourself a little bit of time today to process what happened? Because, I mean, you know this is something that hopefully you only deal with once in your life on any level.

DAVID: Yes, I mean, you hope. There was laughter, yes. But I mean, like, it does make you think about things in general. And like, I mean, today, it's all just about logistics. How do I get home? I don't have a wallet. I'm borrowing my friend's shoes.

CUOMO: We're going to help you out with that. Don't worry. That's the easy part.

[06:10:00] You've made it through the hard part.

DAVID: Yes.

CUOMO: But you're sure you did. You went -- because sometimes, you know, you're just kind of living through this thing, and you're not taking care of yourself in these immediate moments. I mean, you got checked out. They said your head's OK?

DAVID: Yes. I was at the hospital with other people. It was fine. I got checked out by the doctors and the nurses. Talked to investigators. And I'm fine.

CUOMO: How are people handling it? Because I know that you had to fend for yourselves here just because of how quickly it happened and the urgency to get out of these trains. You said some people were helping each other. But...

DAVID: Right.

CUOMO: Did people seem like they were OK in getting the help they needed?

DAVID: I mean, they did. I mean, at first, I mean, like people were making sure other people who were underneath could be helped up. I mean, people were helping people come off the top of the train. I mean, there was a point of helping. I mean, one girl was asking for her mother who was still in the car.

So, I mean, you're kind of in shock not sure what to do. So it totally ranged. I mean, people were, you know, just looking for a phone, because that's, like, one of the things you do or a laptop and other people, I mean, they're just shocked me. One person wanted to borrow my phone because she didn't have hers, and like, we just hugged. I mean, there's just like those kind of those moments where you just -- you go from like logistics to calling family to just and sort of just, you know...

CUOMO: When -- when you see the pictures, as scary as it is that you were in it, are you able yet to realize how fortunate you are that you're standing here and just, you know, a little bit worse for wear but alive?

DAVID: Yes, yes, I mean, definitely. I mean -- I mean, once you see those pictures -- I mean, it was actually just like that first moment of seeing those crumpled cars in front of you, I mean, you just feel thankful.

And actually, I mean, I think in that moment when I was kind of tumbling, I mean, I really thought this might be the end. I mean, there's no way to know, like, in the darkness. And then so just being able to taste dirt was lovely, because you knew that you were alive and OK. You know, and you can figure out the rest.

CUOMO: That's exactly right. You've been through the hard part. And I mean, that -- an experience like that rolling over in that train, I know that that's got to be just the scariest thing, ever.

DAVID: I mean, it's just -- just haven't processed it. I mean, like...

CUOMO: Don't force yourself to either.

DAVID: Yes.

CUOMO: You know, you're on TV right now. And this will hit you later like "I was on TV?" Give yourself the time. Make sure that you check in with some medical people later on...

DAVID: Right.

CUOMO: ... as well. Because when you take a hit to the head like that, you know, you want to give yourself time and make sure you keep evaluating yourself, all right?

DAVID: All right.

CUOMO: And we'll help you make sure that you get home. Don't worry about that.

DAVID: I would really appreciate that.

CUOMO: And we've got some donuts and coffee action for you. The little things will help right now.

DAVID: Yes, they will.

CUOMO: But just to be a little rubbed up, you're very lucky.

DAVID: Thank you.

CUOMO: And thank you for talking to us about it this morning. And hopefully, we wind up that everyone is unaccounted for, because you know, hopefully, it's just a listening thing and there's not more horrible news to relate on this. But thank God you made it out.

DAVID: Yes.

CUOMO: All right. We'll get you some coffee.

DAVID: All right. Thank you so much.

CUOMO: It's Beth David, so many were so lucky here to make it out. And we're going to start hearing more news about who didn't and why, because the rescuers are working the scene very, very actively right now.

So let's get a bit better understanding of what's going on. I'm going to let Beth go get some coffee and donuts. Let me take the mic off you.

DAVID: OK.

CUOMO: And I'll see you in a little bit, OK?

So let's bring in Mary Schiavo. She's the former inspector general for the Department of Transportation, and she's also a CNN aviation analyst, as you well know.

Mary, it's so difficult. You just heard Beth there, trying to piece together what happened from a passenger's perspective. It went from normal to, you know, so highly abnormal so quickly. She describes rolling around and tumbling. You see the pictures for yourself. You know the history of this curve. Not to point to that as an indication, but what are the considerations early on, once they sort through the wreckage about how they'll try to evaluate why?

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, the first thing the NTSB thing will do, besides surveying the site and looking at the train and the tracks is they're going to get that black box off the locomotive. Because the locomotive black box is very much like an aircraft black box, and it will tell the speed. It will tell the settings on the controls that will tell when and where the train blew its whistle. That won't be an issue here, but it will have a recreation of this journey of the train very much like an airplane black box.

And then the NTSB will be looking especially closely, I think, at three things because they're on their most wanted list, the things they want most for train safety, did this track and did this train have something called positive train control. And that's a new system.

The federal government wanted on all trains and tracks by the end of this year. It's not going to happen. There's just too many trains and tracks to get it done. But that would prevent train-to-train collisions or overspeed derailments or trains entering work zones. And they'd also want to look at survivability of the cars and what they have the crumple zones.

So lots of things the NTSB will be looking at besides just what caused this crash.

[06:15:11] CUOMO: Because obviously, their concerns are going to be the integrity of the system overall. When you look at this, the way that the tracks are mangled, the way that these cars are twisted and blown apart and part of that bridge stanchion went right through the cars like nothing, does that indicate the intensity of which, you know, this moment happened? You know, do they assess how twisted and how much force seems to have been applied, how much momentum is involved in terms of understanding the speed that was carried into that curve?

SCHIAVO: Oh, absolutely. And the NTSB has gotten an awful lot of experience with the two crashes in New York, California, and North Carolina all within a space of a few months. And they will have the expertise, of course, to do that and evaluate literally the forces on those train cars.

And, you know, with that curve right there and the real devastation that we see on those cars, I think one of the first things they'll be looking for is the speed of the train because of the force and the momentum of which it just shredded one of the cars and destroyed some of the track and the infrastructure. So they'll be looking at that.

But again, that's going to be on that black box. They won't have to guess. But then they'll be looking at the effects on the cars. And if those --the newer cars, what they call the crumple zone cars, the collision energy management cars, which actually absorb some of the force of the collision, they'll look to see if any of those cars were modified for that. And if that might have made a difference if they were not.

CUOMO: You know, it's interesting you say that. When I was talking to one of the guys working the scene, I said, you know, he mentioned that some of these cars are actually designed to crumple. And I was, like, "So does that explain what I'm seeing?"

He said, "No, these cars are way beyond, you know, the capacity of any force they're designed to take in."

And he was like, "I can't believe how many people survived this and walked through."

And something that's interesting to note: we are talking a lot about speed. We haven't heard them point to that yet. But the obvious kind of suggests it.

And yet that one deadly crash here on this same curve, Mary, they say wasn't so much about speed. It was about something called a journal box underneath one of the cars that had burned out and shorted and caused the derailment. And then it was just about locomotive momentum after that that caused it. So we have to keep some perspective on how each of these elements come into play.

But Mary, as we learn more, we'll come back to you for more understanding on it.

So thank you for being with us this morning.

And again, Alisyn, it is just amazing to look at these pictures and realize that we were just talking to Beth David, and so many people walked away. At current count five people have lost their lives. But that number could so easily have been so much higher.

CAMEROTA: Oh, absolutely, Chris. We're JUST looking at the devastation there. It's amazing that so many people did survive, although so many people did go to the hospital with injuries and some of them in critical. So obviously, we'll keep a close eye on that. and we will have much more from Chris at the crash site in Philadelphia in a moment.

But we do want to look at some other top stories for you right now, because there are reports surfacing this morning that North Korea publicly executed its defense minister. Spies in South Korea say he was killed for disrespecting leader Kim Jong-un, possibly for falling asleep at a military event. This as a defector from North Korea tells CNN that Kim's power base is crumbling.

For the latest, let's get right to CNN's Kathy Novak. She is live in Seoul for us. What is the latest, Kathy?

KATHY NOVAK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Alisyn, we're told that this man is accused of neglecting his duties of disrespecting the leader by not following Kim Jong-un's orders, by expressing discontent about Kim Jong-un.

And as you say, we're hearing he also fell asleep at an event organized by Kim Jong-un himself. This is coming from South Korean lawmakers who attended an intelligence briefing.

And this very senior minister was someone who survived the transition from Kim Jong-Il to Kim Jong-un. He seemed to be in favor with the ruling family. Just last month, he was representing North Korea at an international security summit in Moscow.

Then it seems all of a sudden, these reports came out of his public execution with antiaircraft gun. As you mentioned, a very high-ranking official who has defected told CNN he believes these executions are part of a feeling from Kim Jong-un that he's losing his grip on power.

Of course, all this information from North Korea always very difficult to verify, and no official confirmation from state media yet -- Michaela.

PEREIRA: That likely won't come for some time. All right. Thank you so much for that, Kathy.

Meanwhile, some breaking news out of Pakistan. Police now saying six gunmen on motorcycles opened fire on a bus in Karachi, killing 42 people, wounding at least 20 others. That bus was carrying men, women and children from a Shiite sect that is often persecuted by extremists. A splinter group from the Pakistani Taliban has now claimed responsibility for that attack.

CAMEROTA: The search for a missing U.S. military helicopter underway in Nepal this morning. Six U.S. Marines and two Nepalese service members are on board. They're delivering humanitarian aid following that powerful earthquake in the region Tuesday. Radio transmissions indicate the crew was having some type of fuel problem. But it's not clear exactly what happened. The earthquake, of course, killing at least 83 people and injuring nearly 2,000.

[06:20:22] PEREIRA: Officials in Wisconsin releasing police dash cam video from the night unarmed biracial teenager Tony Robinson was shot and killed in Madison. It comes as we learned the officer who fired the fatal shots will not face charges.

CNN's Ryan Young is following developments live for us in Madison. Good morning to you.

RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Michaela. This is dramatic video. We knew this evidence existed, and now we're getting to see it for the first time.

And I want to tell you parts of it are probably going to be a little difficult to watch. Because as you watch this, you can see the very first moments after the officer arrived, went upstairs, and then some sort of struggle happened inside this house. And then the shots were fired. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(GUNSHOTS)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shots fired.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YOUNG: So we now know that the shots were fired two different times. In fact, Matt Kenny shot three times, and three more times, and then one time. So actually, three different times. Seven shots were fired. Unarmed teen Tony Robinson was killed in front of this home.

The D.A. believes that the video is inconclusive, and it shows the fact that the officer should not be charged. In fact, now people in this community are reacting to it. We know there will be a rally here at 9 a.m. this morning.

We did see people showing up en masse, sitting in the middle of the street blocking traffic yesterday. We believe some of the same activity will happen today.

But it was peaceful overnight. A lot of people in Madison having a chance to digest the information that the D.A. laid out. He laid it out very conclusively in terms of just the fact of why he didn't charge this officer. Now we're moving forward with the rally starting at 9 a.m. -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Good, let's hope that everything remains peaceful there. And we know you'll keep us posted, Ryan. Thanks so much for that.

So we will have much more on the deadly train derailment in Philadelphia, but first, is the public execution of a top official in North Korea a sign of Kim Jong-un's power or is it that his regime is crumbling?

We'll discuss all that next.

PEREIRA: And CNN's Jake Tapper sitting down with Governor Chris Christie and his wife, speaking about once loyal supporters who cut and ran and how their children feel about a possible move to the White House. That big interview for you ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:25:54] CAMEROTA: Welcome back to NEW DAY. We will return to our breaking news coverage in Philadelphia in a second.

But first, new reports this morning that North Korea's dictator, Kim Jong-un, publicly executed his own defense minister. What's going on in that inner circle?

Let's bring in Bobby Ghosh. He's our CNN global affairs analyst and a managing editor of "Quartz." And Peter Beinart, a CNN political commentator and professor at City University of New York.

Gentlemen, thanks so much for being here.

These reports are stunning. Kim Jong-un allegedly executed his own defense minister using antiaircraft gunfire. This happened publicly. What is going on in his inner circle?

PETER BEINART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, you know, it's always extremely difficult to understand what's going on in North Korea, but this is not the first execution. We've seen a lot of executions since Kim Jong-un took power.

Back in 2013, he executed his uncle who had been considered to be someone who was very influential. There does seem to be some evidence that he's having some trouble consolidating power. That he's an erratic, very inexperienced leader who sees threats everywhere. And you do have to wonder, can he continue on like this forever?

CAMEROTA: One of the reports, Bobby, is that he executed this defense minister for dozing off at a military event. He also, we're told, more than a year ago poisoned his own aunt. He also, as Peter just said, is accused of killing 15 officials in just the past year. What are we to make of what's happening with his powers? Does it mean it's crumbling or he's consolidating power?

BOBBY GHOSH, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, he's certainly trying to send a message. Fifteen military officers executed this year, 70 since he took over, he's sending a message.

And the nature of these execution executions: the use of an antiaircraft gun, that blows a body into smithereens. He's trying to send a message to his staff commanders that he's the man in charge.

The context is this. His father had 20 years to prepare for -- Kim Jong-Il had 20 years to prepare to take over. He had been declared the heir apparent. He had a long time to consolidate even before he became the ruler.

Kim Jong-un sort of became ruler just overnight. Very few people had heard of him outside of a very tight circle in Korea. So it is possible, with the caveat that it's almost impossible to know what's going on in North Korea -- it is possible that he didn't have the time to consolidate and is doing so after the fact.

And there have been reports, the professional North Korea watchers have been saying that there are reports that the North Korean military don't respect him as much as they did his father. They see him as a sort of gawky little kid who doesn't really have any credibility. And in that sort of slightly crazy regime, the best way to establish credibility is to murder a lot of people.

CAMEROTA: And we've always seen him as a little unhinged. Does this mean he's cracking? And what does it mean for the U.S.?

BEINART: We don't know whether he's cracking or not. I mean, I do think that it's true that there have been questions about legitimacy. There are even questions about his bloodline, about whether, in fact -- whether his mother may have been Japanese and whether, in fact, he really was the person who actually should have been in the line to take control.

I do think what makes North Korea so difficult is that there is -- it's a regime that can act in a very, very erratic way, and it's a regime that has a history of trying to get international attention and gain international aid by doing very frightening things.

So it's always striking how relatively little attention North Korea gets. You know, we talk all the time about the potential danger of Iran potentially getting one nuclear weapon. North Korea has a nuclear weapon already, and in terms of the way they behave, they're much more irrational actor than, say, Iran is.

CAMEROTA: Very quickly, I want to touch on other international news today. There are three -- there's an Arab summit that's supposed to be happening this week at camp David. Three Arab leaders have said THAT they won't be coming. Oman and the IAE [SIC] say that it's because of -- sorry, UAE said it's because their leaders are sick, very ill. But Saudi Arabia, King Salman, says that he's going to skip it. What are we to make of that, Bobby?

GHOSH: Well, the Saudis are very upset. All the Arab states are quite disturbed by the U.S. What they see the U.S. getting closer and closer to their traditional enemy, which is Iran.

King Salman hasn't even come up with a traditional excuse of not being well. He...