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Ted Wells blasted Tom Brady's agent; 19-year-old Tony Robinson was shot and killed by police officer; Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired May 12, 2015 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[15:30:00] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shots fired. Shot fired.

RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Robinson died after being shot.

CHIEF MIKE KOVAL, MADISON POLICE: He was unarmed. And that's going to make this all the more complicated for the investigators, for the public to accept, to understand that deadly force had to be used.

YOUNG: This isn't the first time officer Kenney has been involved in a deadly shooting. In 2007, Kenney shot and killed a man in what the police chief described as suicide by cop. Kenney was exonerated of any wrongdoing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: And Ryan Young joins me now from actually the scene of that shooting outside of that home. And I know we're minutes from hearing from the D.A. as to whether or not he'll bring charges. I mean, have you seen crowds gathering anywhere in town? How people are preparing for this?

YOUNG: Well, we certainly have. And you have heard it over and over. There are a lot of people who feel like the charges will not come for this officer. That's what people have been saying in the crowds and people that we have talked to across town.

But I want to show this right now. You can see the crowd that's already started to gather here. People want to be in this location for the announcement. Now the home where the shooting happened is just over there. You see the White House with the porch that is over that direction. That's where a lot of the memorial and the candles were left behind.

Of course, we've been covering the story since the very beginning. And you remember this -- the 911 call went out, the officer arrived, heard noise inside the house. And then went on the inside of that house and a struggle ensued. He says he suffered a concussion. That was reported later. He pulled his gun, fired three shots. And just this afternoon, his aunt talked about the pain of losing Tony Robinson.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) LORIEN CARTER, AUNT OF MAN KILLED BY OFFICER: My question is did you really feel that there was no other solution? Did you really feel that there was no other option other than to pull the trigger as many times as you did and riddle my nephew with holes?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YOUNG: Now Brooke, you know that's been the big conversation since the shooting happened, whether or not the officer had to pull his gun. He did have a Taser on him, of course, a lot of people ask why didn't he use a Taser. Well here in Madison, an officer cannot pull his Taser unless he has backup. So the gun was the next step. Especially he says he was being attacked on the inside of the home. We've been waiting for the details involved in this case. Of course, that news conference is coming in a short time. But people want to know exactly what happened or what the report has found out. The independent report, as soon as the officer walks on the inside and faced Tony Robinson.

BALDWIN: Can you tell me a little, Ryan, as we see this podium and live pictures as we are going to see the district attorney in Dane County, district attorney Ismael Ozanne (ph). Can you tell me a little bit about him?

YOUNG: Well, we do know that he had been in this area and has been doing the investigation. So look, this state here is one of the first in the country to have this set up where an independent authority comes in and look at what happened. Now, of course, it's going to be his job to tell everyone what the investigators found.

For the first two days after the shooting, you have to commend the police chief for coming forward, doing the on-camera interviews, they said they not only would be open to the investigation, but they also apologized to the family because they obviously didn't want this to turn into any of the other situations across the country.

And we did see those large-scale protests especially with people taking to the street. We were here as they took over the state capitol, as they closed down the streets for a short time as they protested. And even in the last half-hour or so, police have shown up and added these no parking temporary police order signs around the area because for a few days, this street was shut down after the shooting. This is all developing now. Of course, we're waiting for words from the district attorney.

BALDWIN: Ryan Young, thank you very much in Madison, Wisconsin.

Again, live picture. We should hear any minute word, this news conference from the district attorney here in Dane County. Got to take a quick break. Do not move. When we come pack, we will be finding out whether or not this officer involve in the shooting death will be charged. Stay here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:36:05] BALDWIN: All right, breaking news here on CNN. We are going to come up on some live pictures. Let me just set the scene for you before we have discussion with these two attorneys sitting next to me.

So on the left side of the screen, these are pictures and crowds already gathering here in Madison, Wisconsin. This is outside of a home in which at the time 19-year-old Tony Robinson was shot and killed. This is an incident happened back in March involving an officer responding to a 911 call. Walked inside this home, struggle ensued, and he shot and killed this unarmed teenager.

On the right side of your screen, picture of a podium because this is where we should be seeing any second now the district attorney here in Madison, Wisconsin. This is out of Dane County, will be standing there and announcing their findings and whether or not he is choosing to bring charges against the police officer who shot and killed this 19-year-old.

And after that, you know, massive crowds or protests at the capitol there and already crowds gathering, though, I can say I talked to the aunt of this young man. And she, you know, she's not anticipating charge, but she was also calling for peace.

Let me bring in Danny Cevallos and Sunny Hostin who are sitting next to me and we can walk through sort of what there anticipating as we wait for this announcement. And from what I understand the guidance we have is we'll see this district attorney, he will say whatever he's planning on saying, but he won't be taking cases afterward. My question is, when we hear from him explaining whether he chooses to bring charges or not, will he walk through his, you know, why he came to this conclusion?

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: You know, I think that's the question on everyone's mind, right? Will we hear the kind of statement that we heard from Marilyn Mosby in Baltimore? That statement was very unique in my view, Brooke. I've never seen anything like that. Typically prosecutors will let you know the decision but may not necessarily give you all of the background because these investigations are typically ongoing. We know that his office has had the investigation since March 6th. So this is more in line and what we've usually seen which is a several month investigation than culminating in either charge or not. So I don't think we're going to hear that kind of statement. I think that's really unique unto itself. I think this is a difficult decision for any prosecutor, especially for this prosecutor.

BALDWIN: Why?

HOSTIN: Because we know, we've seen all of these events over and over and over again. And prosecutors have really come under fire for either bringing charges or not bringing charge. He's been a prosecutor -- he is a career prosecutor, is my understanding. He has a lot of experience. He's tried murder cases. He's tried domestic violence cases. He's tried felony cases. He's been the lead prosecutor in Wisconsin since 2010. But is the first African-American prosecutor in Wisconsin. So with that, you know, heavy is the head that wears the crown. With

that, certainly comes a lot of responsibility. And I think when you're thinking about police-involved shootings, quite frankly they are held to a different legal standard. And those cases are very difficult to bring. So I think this is going to be a difficult decision.

BALDWIN: Can you talk about that, the legal standard, what they've been doing since March 6th and today looking into this, independent investigators, et cetera. What have they been --

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, jumping off from where Sunny ended, what you have to ask, what's the upside, why give a lot of narrative as to the decision? Under Wisconsin law, they have to release records. They're going to come out anyway. There's really not much point at a press conference of adding any of his personal opinion or thoughts because under the law, it will be released. Brooke --

BALDWIN: The report?

CEVALLOS: Yes, the information is going to be released. And Wisconsin in a substantial minority of states that actually have a law that requires --

BALDWIN: Transparency.

CEVALLOS: That kind of transparency. I mean, all states have some variation of it. But anyways, the issue that's going to come up here, that I think is going to be fascinating, is the issue of the officer's entry into the home, right? We have also reports that there may have been drug use, but did the officer know and did he not?

I think critical in this case is going to be what we call the community caretaker exception. Police exercised two primary duties. One, we are more familiar with. This is law enforcement. The other one is when someone is injured and needs help. They are the community caretaker. And I think they're going to scrutinize ultimately his reason for entering obviously without a warrant. Was it under that community caretaker exception? Was his interest in entering the home completely divorced from the making an arrest for a crime and more focused on the idea of perhaps somebody had OD'd on drugs, perhaps somebody was in need of assistance. I think these are going to be facts that are going to be critical. However, if people are upset with the decision one way or another, they'll care less about the constitutional analysis, and we'll see protests.

[15:40:43] BALDWIN: Again, hopefully they will be peaceful if, in fact, we know we've seen crowds gathering around the home where the shooting happen a couple of months ago. I have to get a quick break in. I want to continue this very important conversation.

Quick break. We'll be right back with news from Madison, Wisconsin.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [15:48:08] BALDWIN: Breaking news here on CNN. Live pictures at Madison, Wisconsin. We are awaiting a huge decision to be announced by the district attorney there in Dane County. So stay tuned for that. We are waiting for him to step behind that podium.

Meantime, moments ago with the man tapped by the NFL to investigate the New England Patriots over deflategate came out swinging. He is Ted Wells. He blasted Tom Brady's agent for questioning his integrity and his independence. He says the NFL in no way iNFLuenced his findings. And Tom Brady likely knew the Patriots were using these underinflated balls in that AFC championship game against the Indianapolis Colt. Here he was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TED WELLS, NFL INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATOR: I think it is wrong to criticize my independence just because you disagree with my findings. I think those attacks are out of bound and just plain wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: As a result so of Ted Wells' investigation, Brady has been suspended for four games with no pay. And the patriots have to pay $1 million in fines. They will also lose the first round draft pick next season and the fourth round pick in 2017.

So to Rachel Nichols and Andy Scholes, from CNN sports, can we start with that (INAUDIBLE) from "Boston Globe" who I talked to in the last hour who was on the phone call with you, Rachel Nichols, listening to Ted Wells -- forgive me -- and -- he is furious.

RACHEL NICHOLS, CNN ANCHOR, UNGUARDED WITH RACHEL NICHOLS: That is an understatement. I think if he could have come out swinging, actually punching through the phone, he would have. Definitely does not like his integrity being questioned. That led off the call. But then he answered details in terms of the investigation. And some key points came through.

First of all, he noted that the text messages that he cited in the report that we've all been talking about these past few days, he said that's not circumstantial evidence. He said that's direct evidence. He said he believes quote "in the bottom of my heart," that not only was there fraud here committed by the Patriots, but he believes that Tom Brady knew about. He explained that that probably language, that more probable than not was meant to directly meet the NFL's standard.

And Brooke, we've talked about this on the show a couple of time. That's what the NFL rules say. That's what they say is their standard of whether you violated something or not. And so, that is why he used that language. Then he got into the idea of this impeding the investigation. He gave a couple specific examples. He said with the Patriots, he said that he interviewed Jim McNally, this is a key guy who took the footballs into the bathroom, and that he interviewed him once. But then after that interview is when he found the text message where McNally referred to himself as the deflator. And so, he wanted another interview with Jim McNally. And he said the Patriots not only refused that interview, but they refused to even tell McNally that Wells wanted to speak to him.

Then when he addressed Tom Brady, he said that Brady did answer all has questions in the interview. But he went on to say that he asked for electronic communication from Brady, he specified, look, we did not ask to take Tom Brady's cell phone. We understand that's an invasion of privacy, someone as famous as Tom Brady. We basically asked his lawyer and agent, you go through the cell phone. You just tell us anything you think might be relevant that you're willing to give us, you vet it yourselves, and then hand us printout, as Wells said. They didn't even want to do. And he thought that giving them that much trust and benefit of the doubt and still being refused, that qualified as impeding the investigation.

And Brooke, there's no doubt when Troy Vincent handed down the punishment, that impeding the investigation, that was a big deal in why it was four games for Tom Brady.

[15:46:39] BALDWIN: OK. So I'm listening -- I mean, hearing all of this from you, Rachel. And Andy, I'm staring at you with our locator, Fox Borough, Massachusetts. And I was joking last hour saying, I'm sure, free Tom Brady t-shirts have been made. No, people have been tweeting me, like they're out there. I don't know if you've had the chance to talk to Pats' fans, I don't know if the rest of the country feels how pats' fans are feeling about this. But, what are you hearing?

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS: Well, Brooke, I actually, you know, we are at the gift shop's behind here at the stadium. I actually went up there. I talked to a bunch of Patriots fans. They went in and out of the gift shop. And I tell you what, one patriots fan called this whole a (INAUDIBLE). He said that the NFL is out to get the Patriot --

BALDWIN: I'm sorry, a what?

SCHOLES: A farce, that's pretty common-- trying to my Boston accent.

(CROSSTALK)

SCHOLES: He went on to say that the NFL was out to get Tom Brady this whole time. He said right now they're doing cartwheels in Park Avenue, you know. And that was kind of the assessment of all these Patriots fans. They think the NFL is out to get them from the beginning when the whole deflagate scandal happened. They say the air of the football is not a big deal. Tom Brady is still going to be a legend. His legacy is still intact here as far as these Patriots fans are concern. And it is funny, Brook, -

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Forgive me. I want to continue this conversation. I got to go to Madison, Wisconsin. Here's the district attorney here about to announce whether or not he is going to charge an officer in shooting and killing a 19-year-old from an incident back in march. Let's listen. ISMAEL OZANNE, THE DANE COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: All right. We

ready? Good afternoon. I am Ismael Ozanne, the Dane County district attorney. I would like to thank everyone for coming today. I am here to render the decision in the officer-involved shooting which took the life of 19-year-old Tony Robinson Jr. on March 6th, 2015.

On March 6, 2015, a young man lost his life far too soon. Now whether we are policing, teaching or parenting, when we use violence to control, we do so at a tremendous cost to the person, to our community and ultimately to our humanity.

Although Tony Robinson, Jr. was over 6 feet tall, he was just past the age of majority. We must remember he was still a young man. I have privately extended my condolences to Tony Robinson's mother, Andrea Irwin, and I do so now again today. I am so very sorry for your loss.

I am a lifelong resident of Dane County, a husband, a father of two intelligent, beautiful and caring daughters. I am a person of color from a biracial marriage. I am the son of a black woman born in Anniston, Alabama who at the age of 17 in 1964 (INAUDIBLE), Mississippi became the youngest member of the student coordinating committee and participated in the freedom. I am the son of a black woman who still worries about my safety from the bias and privilege and violence that accompanies it. I am a man who understands the pain of unjustified profiling and I am the first district attorney of color, not only in Dane County but in the state of Wisconsin.

I make note of this because it is through this lens that I approach and accept my leadership responsibilities. Those responsibilities involve an oath I took to you hold the constitution of the United States of America and the constitution of the state of Wisconsin. In this matter my role and obligation is to weigh the facts and determine if Officer Kenny should be criminally charged.

I am cognizant of the very real racial disparities and equity issues which exist in this county. In the past eight weeks I have met with the following people in groups. Andrea Irwin, the mother of Tony Robinson, Jr., who wants her son to be seen as a human being. And as her child who was loved and cared for. High school students who express an interest in justice but are mistrusting of law enforcement and the criminal justice system. Many told me that they will not pursue careers in law enforcement when that is precisely where their views and experiences are need.

I have also met with a neighborhood watch group and heard their frustrations. I have met with black leaders in our community, many faith-based who are asking to be included in reform. I meet monthly with the Dane County police chiefs and I hear their challenges with recruiting persons of color to apply for jobs.

Finally, I serve on the Dane County racial justice improvement committee. These are all important voices in our community. These are all people who want the same thing, to feel safe. We must also remember law enforcement represents these same voices and these same people. My decision will not bring Tony Robinson, Jr. back. My decision will

not end the racial disparities that exist in the justice system, in our justice system. My decision is not based on emotion. Rather, this decision is based on the facts as they have been investigated and reported to me. This decision is guided by the rule of law. And the oath I took to uphold the constitution.

There's one preliminary determination I am required to make, that is whether Wisconsin state 175.47 concerning the review of deaths involving officers has been complied with. The law requires that each law enforcement agency have a written policy regarding investigations of officer-involved deaths that involve officers employed by the agency.

The policy must require an investigation be conducted by at least two investigators, one who is the lead investigator and neither whom is employed by the law enforcement agency that employs the officer involved in the death.

In Dane County, there has been a written policy in place for officer- involved incidents. That includes deaths prior to the package of 175.47. In this case, the city of Madison requested the division of criminal investigation, DCI, from the department of justice to lead the investigation.

The city of Madison has used DCI in this capacity for all officer- involved shootings which have occurred since the implementation of Dane County's written policy and the passage of the new law. In this case I conclude there has been compliance with Wisconsin statute section 175.47.

Now as to Tony Robinson, Jr. and my decision today. In making this decision I hold myself to the reasonable doubt standard. In other words, what can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

To begin, I reviewed the follow evidence, the scene on the evening of March 6th, observation of the initial law enforcement response on March 6th, police reports including DCI's, the Wisconsin state patrol and the city of Madison police department. Medical examiner's report and autopsy, Wisconsin crime lab reports, citizen interviews, paramedic, EMT and firefighter interviews, officer interviews including officer Kenny's interview, surveillance footage from the spirit gas station, police squad car video, officer recordings, examination of radio communication and 911 calls, photographs, video of the scene itself, 814 pages of reports and documentation released by the city of Madison police department due to open records requests, a 911 call released by the Dane County dispatch center due to an open records request, and follow-up interview with one of the residents of 1125 Williamson street apartment number 2 conducted by the district attorney's office.

At the conclusion of this review, the question to be answered is whether criminal charges are warranted in the death of Tony Robinson, Jr. I begin with the known undisputed facts. There were three 911 calls within five minutes prior to Officer Kenny's arrival on the scene. The first call came in at 6:28 p.m. from a friend of Tony Robinson, Jr., who was a resident of 1125 Williamson street number 2. It was reported tony was tweaking, chasing everybody and is really outrageous right now. The caller and his girlfriend are scared. Tony is a light-skinned African American. He is not wearing a shirt but has a jacket on that is tan in color. It is not believed Tony is armed. Tony had jumped in front of a car but doesn't appear to be hurt. Tony is chasing the caller as they drive off. Tony had punched another friend prior to this call but everyone has left as things are really bad. Tony is going crazy. He took rooms (ph) or some type of drugs. Caller said he couldn't talk to Tony. He couldn't get through to him.