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Gunmen Killed Outside Mohammed Cartoon Event; Can Baltimore Prosecutor Make Case Against Officers?; Ben Carson Announces Presidential Bid. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired May 4, 2015 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:33:37] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking news this morning: Police in Texas investigating a shooting outside a free speech event featuring prominent anti-Islam activist, a cartoon contest of the Prophet Mohammed. Both shooters were killed by police.

CNN's Ed Lavandera is tracking the latest from Garland, Texas, for us this morning. Ed, what do we know?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn.

Well, here the scene is very much active. You can see FBI evidence collectors in the distance to the right of that scene is where we believe the suspect's car pulled up to the civic center just before 7:00 central time last night and mulligan firing before security officers at the scene here at the civic center shot and killed both men.

But this is some of the first work we seen FBI investigators here doing at the scene. There has been a great deal of concern throughout the night, Alisyn, there was an explosive in the car the two men drove up in. We haven't gotten update yet on whether or not they did find explosives in there. We hope to get that information here later on this morning.

But all of this folding as the event was wrapping up last night, that we're told by law enforcement officials here, this event was supposed to wrap up about 7:00 last night. We had a producer inside the event when all of this was going down. The whole building went into lock down.

[06:35:00] Everything was starting to wrap up when these two men showed up and started shooting last night, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: We will be talking to the organizer of that event, Pamela Geller, shortly in the show. Thanks, so much for the update.

Also, Baltimore, mainly quiet last night even after the mayor lifted the 10:00 p.m. curfew. The National Guard plans to withdraw over the next three days, we're told. And after that, a state of emergency in the city could be lifted as well. Hundreds gathering at the Baltimore city hall on Sunday. The message from community leaders: keep up the pressure, until the six officers charged in Freddie Gray's death are behind bars.

Well, the Italian navy and coast guard rescuing nearly 7,000 migrants off the coast of Libya. Officials say they were saved in a dozen separate operations over the weekend. Ten bodies also recovered. Authorities say smugglers were taking advantage of calmer seas to send vessels half the migrants across the Mediterranean.

And there is a lot of information as the public learns to await the name of England's newest princess. Today a high gun salute will take place at Hyde Park -- look at how cute she is -- at Hyde Park to celebrate the newest royal arrival. Prince William and Duchess Catherine getting acquainted with her royal family. She was introduced during a get together at Kensington Palace Sunday. The princess who is fourth in line to the throne was delivered on Saturday.

There you go, so happy.

All right. Let's get back to Chris live for us in Baltimore with all the developments there -- Chris.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: I'll tell you only Alisyn Camerota and my wife look that good and left the hospital just ten hours after giving birth. I guess that is some kind of royal imperative.

CAMEROTA: Well played, Chris, I like that.

CUOMO: Healthy babies.

CAMEROTA: Nicely done.

CUOMO: Thank you, thank you very much.

Healthy babies, we're always happy for healthy babies.

So, here in Baltimore, six officers are facing prison time for the death of Freddie Gray. But can the Baltimore top prosecutor make these charges stick? It may be harder than you think. We will test the case with the attorney for Freddie Gray's family, straight ahead on NEW DAY.

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CUOMO: We are in Baltimore. And there are developments for better and worse.

The mayor lifting a 10:00 p.m. curfew last night, 4,000 members slowly drawing down over the next three days as things stay stable. And if the city does remain calm, the state of emergency the governor imposed could also be lifted before the end of the week. That's the good news.

But there are tensions bubbling on the new front. A Baltimore police union claiming the states attorney, Marilyn Mosby, had a conflict of interest. That's why she charged officers in the death of Freddie Gray. They say she took campaign money from a Gray family attorney. Mosby insists, lots of people donate to her, including the police union making the claim.

But a lot of this is distraction from whether or not the prosecutor can make the case. So let's discuss that and test it with Jason Downs. He's one of the team of attorneys representing the Gray family.

Thank you for joining us.

JASON DOWNS, ATTORNEY FOR FREDDIE GRAY'S FAMILY: Thank you for having me.

CUOMO: So, a conflict of interest, the politics. Let's leave that for other people who are more engaged than that. You are thinking about the stuff that matters because of the family's quest for justice.

DOWNS: Yes.

CUOMO: The prosecutor makes a tactical move, which was there was an array of charges, some of them misdemeanor, you have false imprisonment. You have assault.

Let's deal with those first. What do you see as the obvious avenue of success of the prosecutor of those charges against six people?

DOWNS: I think you first have to keep in mind the state attorney's office chose the charges via criminal information. So, right now, that has not been an indictment. The next step is to take this case to a going and let the going decide whether there is probable cause to move forward on these charges. So I think you have to keep in mind the state attorney's office chose to move cautiously on this case.

CUOMO: People were saying the opposite. Oh, she skipped over the grand jury. She did it herself, which by the way under the state law, as you know, was her option. You are saying you believe she is still going to a grand jury?

DOWNS: She certainly has that option to go to a grand jury from here. Right now, this is one way of charging these particular offices. They go to a grand jury and a going could decide whether there is probable cause to move forward in this case.

CUOMO: So, what do you think? Do you think it's an easy case or a hard case on the assault and the false imprisonment?

DOWNS: I think we have to keep in mind both of us right now are sort of shooting in the dark. We are not privy to the information that the state attorney has.

CUOMO: Although she did download more than I expected when she announced the charges.

DOWNS: Absolutely. She certainly did bring more information than was required to give, which is giving a measure of hope to the Gray family, because that does show the state attorney's office is trying to conduct a transparent information. So, the Gray family is happy about that.

When it comes to the charges, whether they will stick, we don't know all the information that the state attorney has.

CUOMO: And she's going to have to have the prosecutor in her office, a pretty high bar on the main ticket charges. With the manslaughter, homicide charges, you are going to have to show that you can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that they did this to Freddie Gray to cause his death. Affirmative things, not just omitting things, the larynx, the spine, that's a pretty high bar to show you did this to me, and you intended it to kill me.

DOWNS: Well, I think, right now, I think we have to look at exactly what the radio run show. Those are going to be key in determining what the officers did and frankly what the officers didn't do, because what the officers didn't do will be important in establishing the recklessness in this case, whether there was a depraved heart murder in this case, because right now, there is no first degree murder charge, a second degree murder charge, which is a depraved heart murder.

CUOMO: And that's the driver really we're talking about that she has that. Right now, you don't know, but I know, but I know, Jason, you were in the public defender's office.

DOWNS: Yes.

CUOMO: Let's just put on that hat on for one second.

DOWNS: Sure.

CUOMO: You are representing the driver. I know the police union is going to put a union guy in there, but let's say you were defending them, depraved heart murder, that you call it here.

[06:45:00] Sometimes it's depraved indifference, sometimes it's depraved mind, but it's the same category.

That is a tricky statute. It's not just the middle ground between intentional premeditated and reckless manslaughter. It goes to a mindset that you wanted to do horrible things but not to just one person, just in general and you wound up being successful at least in this one case. That's a tricky thing to prove any time, let alone here, isn't it?

DOWNS: Well, it's a willful disregard for human life. That's second degree murder here.

CUOMO: Yes, but terrorists and stuff like that, people who are shooting to theaters, you know?

DOWNS: Not only for terrorists or people shooting to theaters.

CUOMO: Obviously, otherwise she wouldn't use it. But how does it apply here?

DOWNS: Sure, it applies here. There is allegedly a willful disregard for human life, that human life being Freddie Gray's life.

CUOMO: So, willful disregard for Freddie Gray here means what?

DOWNS: So, here it means that -- it could mean, for example, Freddie Gray the driver knew he needed medical attention. That the driver had the duty to render that attention, that the driver should have and the driver did not even attempt to give Freddie Gray any medical attention. That could be the legal theory of second degree murder here. It could be. But again, we don't know exactly what the prosecutor knows.

CUOMO: And you would to show that he knew not rendering that aid could kill him.

DOWNS: Yes. At this point, again, we don't know exactly what the prosecutor knows. So, we have to right now wait until we have all of the information because what we should not do even if I'm thinking as a defense attorney, what we should not do is speculate, because even as a defense attorney, I never speculated as to what the evidence was. So, at that point I would have asked for all the information.

CUOMO: That's what we are getting right now.

DOWNS: Yes, I would have waited for the discovery process.

CUOMO: People are talking about whether this will be speedy trial or not. From the defense perspective, you want this to go as long as possible, right? You don't expect a speedy trial, do you?

DOWNS: I'm not exactly sure, it's all up to the particular officer. If the officer who wants to clear their name quickly, the officer has that right. The officers could receive the trial very quickly. They could if they chose to do so clear their name in accordance with the speedy trial.

CUOMO: So, let the situation cool down versus don't give the prosecutor that much time to get ready for the case, that's the balancing test here?

DOWNS: It's again completely up to the police officers.

CUOMO: Jason Downs, thank you very much. Appreciate it. Our best to the family.

DOWNS: Thank you.

CUOMO: All right. Alisyn, back to you.

CAMEROTA: OK, Chris, we will check in with you voluntarily. But, first, campaign 2016, the Republican race getting a little more crowded today. Ben Carson and Carly Fiorina jumping in today. Our political pundits share their take, next.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[06:51:20] BEN CARSON (R), 2016 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And I'm willing to be a part of that equation, and therefore, I am announcing my candidacy for president of the United States of America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: All right, that was Dr. Ben Carson throwing his hat into the presidential ring. He will make a former announcement later this morning.

And former Hewlett-Packard CEO Carly Fiorina also set to join the race today, with former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee planning to jump in tomorrow. That will double the field to six candidates.

So, how will these candidates impact the Republican primary?

Let's bring in CNN political analyst and editor in chief of "The Daily Beast", John Avlon, and CNN political commentator and Republican consultant Margaret Hoover. Great to have you guys.

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning.

JOHN AVLON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Good morning.

CAMEROTA: What do you think of Dr. Ben Carson's sort of semi- announcement there yesterday to a radio show before his big announcement today?

AVLON: Yes, I don't think that had been as orchestrated as a typical campaign announcement today in Detroit it's supposed to be a big event. But, you know, here's somebody who really has been embraced by the GOP grassroots. But more importantly, someone who had been -- almost a folk hero, especially in Baltimore, especially among the African-American community, as a renowned surgeon.

But that halo effect is faded as he has kind of played to the right wing base. It will be interesting to see what role he plays. But he's still around 4 percent.

CAMEROTA: OK. So, let's look at the polls right now as they stand today. This is our latest CNN/ORC poll. This is from April 16 to 19. So, it was a couple of weeks ago. So, let's look at this. You can see there, all the top tier candidates, including Mike Huckabee there in the middle at 9 percent. And then, the next page shows us where Ben Carson is at 4 percent, as you just said, John, and Carly Fiorina is at the bottom of the pack with 2 percent.

Margaret, what do you think of these two candidates getting in?

HOOVER: Well, we have seen traditionally every time a candidate gets in, they get a lit bit of a bump. I don't know if that's going to be true with Carly Fiorina and Ben Carson. With Mike Huckabee, I think it mostly is definitely to be true. He is known to the Republican base, he has won Iowa in 2008. He's already leading Ted Cruz, who by the way is going after the folks, they both kind of got the same piece of really shrinking pie in the Republican electorate, white evangelical primary voters, both in South Carolina and in Iowa and throughout the South. So, it will be interesting to see is how much Huckabee takes away from the folks who are going after those Iowa caucus growers.

AVLON: The question is, why do you run if you've never run? Carly Fiorina tried to run for Senate in California. It didn't work out. Now, she seems to think the presidency is the next logical step.

CAMEROTA: And what is the answer to that?

AVLON: Well, to the answer is that what you're really trying to you do is audition for cabinet position, or if it really win the political lottery, maybe a veep slot. Also, these two candidates, let's be real play a certain B role to the GOP field. One woman on the stage in the debate, the one African-American, you will have two Latinos, Hispanics in the case of Cruz and Rubio, but that is a sort of fig leaf of diversity for what is otherwise just a white male field.

HOOVER: OK, you are not a Republican.

AVLON: You are right. True.

HOOVER: And as a Republican, I will say is, each of these candidates bring something to the debate. Ben Carson has a unique take --

AVLON: Not winning.

HOOVER: Actually, what it is --

(LAUGHTER)

HOOVER: They can bring something quantitative and qualitative to the debate in the GOP. Ben Carson has a unique take on Obamacare, that is why he rose to prominence, because he criticized the president --

AVLON: Compared to slavery which I think kind of alienate --

(CROSSTALK)

HOOVER: Carly Fiorina, the only woman who run a Fortune 50 company. She has actually met payroll. She has not been in government in Republican side.

(CROSSTALK)

HOOVER: Could you stop interrupting? Do you mind?

Each of them have the ability to influence the debate and influence is really what is happening every four years the only time the party starts to hammer out what its major ideas and policies are going to be to address the angst Americans are feeling.

[06:55:05] CAMEROTA: OK. But to John's point, are they running to win or do something else in the future?

HOOVER: I mean, I think some of them think they could win. But their influence on the debate and their influence on the stage is what's going to have a lasting impact. So, clearly, only one of these people are going to win and it's not going to be somebody who's probably at 4 percent right now.

AVLON: And it's probably not someone who's never won an election.

HOOVER: No, but there's a reason why there's only been one civilian ever to be elected to the presidency.

AVLON: Who that be?

HOOVER: It happened to be Herbert Hoover. But he'd had also been a cabinet secretary for Democrats and Republicans for a decade beforehand. So, it just doesn't happen.

CAMEROTA: And you know something about this, Margaret Hoover.

(LAUGHTER)

CAMEROTA: Let's talk to Mike Huckabee who we understand will be announcing tomorrow. What kind of fanfare do you think will be around that?

AVLON: Look, Huckabee is going to be a player. As Margaret said, I mean, he won Iowa before. He's deeply beloved by the base. If you look at that announcement video, you see a lot of strengths. This is a candidate who's going to be playing to white rural evangelicals. There are not a lot of people in color in his initial web ad, except of members of ISIS, apparently. So, that's awkward. He is also running against entitlement reform, which is very significant.

I mean, Chris Christie, not in the race yet, but took a really strong stand on entitlement reform. And Huckabee, one of the thing he's saying, look, I'm not going to touch Medicaid. He's opposed to minimum wage but he's in favor of maximum wage. Unclear what that means, but it sounds good.

CAMEROTA: Is that a winning message not touching entitlement reform?

HOOVER: You know, it's interesting, there is social conservatives have been hit by the fiscal conservatives, after big government conservatives, right? Especially Huckabee. I mean, it's sort of what he ran on in Arkansas. You know, he says he balanced the budget and he shrunk welfare. But the big hit about him is a big spending conservative. He has a big heart. He has a lot of social programs that actually not tight on the fiscal --

CAMEROTA: Also, Margaret, John brought up Chris Christie. Where is he?

HOOVER: Chris Christie it seems to us all the signs point to he's still going to run for the presidency. He is starting to work New Hampshire. New Hampshire is a state that could play to his strength. He is a good retail politician and it is a perfect play for somebody comeback for a comeback. He has these bridgegate indictments hanging over him and it's going to be really difficult how these indictments play out over the course of the next year, how he is able to separate himself from it.

CAMEROTA: All right. Are these going to be deal breakers, John?

AVLON: I don't think it will be deal breakers, because today, it appears that what he said, which is he had nothing to do with bridgegate was validated. But those indictments against his top aides are tough, in part because tone comes from the op.

However, other accusations, like Sandy aid withheld was dismissed. He has been vindicated on those fronts. So, that needs to be seen and respected in context --

HOOVER: He has also been vindicated on the fact that -- (INAUDIBLE) thousands and thousands of emails. He knew nothing about the bridge. The issue isn't whether he knew or not. It's the baggage dragging him down.

AVLON: Correct.

CAMEROTA: John, Margaret, great to see you guys. Thanks so much for being here.

What's your take on all of this? You can tweet us #NewDayCNN or go to Facebook.com/NewDay. We'd love to hear your thoughts on the candidates getting into the race.

We are following a lot of news this morning. Let's get right to it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's like a machine gun going off.

CAMEROTA: Opening fire outside an event featuring cartoon drawings of the Prophet Mohammed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The keynote speaker was placed on the al Qaeda hit list.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This person in fact was shot immediately.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm so angry that we had to seek refuge in our own country.

CUOMO: The city's player lifting the week long 10:00 p.m. curfew.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It shows the resiliency of our city.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is not a Baltimore problem. This is an American problem.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have never seen a hurried rush to file charges.

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: If these charges are true, it's outrageous and it's unacceptable.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: Good morning, everyone. Welcome back to your NEW DAY. Chris Cuomo is in Baltimore for us with the latest development in the Freddie Gray case.

Chris, great to see you. We'll be with you momentarily. And Michaela is off this morning.

But we do begin with breaking news: a free speech event in Texas ending with gun fire outside its doors. Now police are investigating whether the gunmen targeted the event featuring cartoon drawings of the Prophet Mohammed. Among the hundreds in attendance, a fiery director of a well-known anti-Islam group and a Dutch politician placed on an al Qaeda hit list. The FBI has joined the investigation this morning.

CNN has team coverage, beginning with Ed Lavandera. He is live at the scene in Garland, Texas, for us.

Ed what's the scene at this hour?

LAVANDERA: Good morning, Alisyn.

Well, the suspects' car is just behind this line of cars here, that you see here this morning, FBI team grounds here starting to collect evidence of the shootout.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just need everybody to remain clam, be kind of orderly. I'm going to take you into the auditorium a little further away from the front of this building, all right?

LAVANDERA (voice-over): Breaking overnight, a deadly scene in a Dallas suburb, two gunmen shot dead, after opening fire and wounding a security guard outside an event center where a cartoon drawing contest of the Prophet Mohammed was being held.

Law enforcement officials tell CNN the entire shooting lasted about 15 seconds.