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Police Press Conference in Baltimore; Baltimore Resident Talks Police; Race; Some Fear Riots Will Harm Baltimore's Image; Rodney King's Lawyer Talks L.A. Riots 23 Years Later. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired April 29, 2015 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[14:30:00] UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION).

CAPT. J. ERIC KOWALCZYK, SPOKESMAN, BALTIMORE POLICE DEPARTMENT: We're working on putting together the information on where everyone was from. Our primary concern is ensuring we get the administrative process of the bookings completed first. Once we do that, we'll be able to break down that information.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION).

KOWALCZYK: No, we stood up an investigative team very, very quickly, and the police commissioner announced we then ramped up the force investigation team with homicide detectives, with people from our education and training center, from our crime lab, so that we could have a diverse group of talent as part of that investigation. That investigation has continued unimpeded by any other events that have taken place. It's absolutely imperative we get to answers in that case. That's what they've been working on.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What's the plan for Saturday's protest?

KOWALCZYK: As we've been saying throughout the course of these events, as we move through the week, we will evaluate on an hour-by- hour, day-by-day basis to see where we need resources. We'll continue to monitor social media for information as it comes out. When we're talking about social media, we also encourage people to follow our social media. It's @Baltimorepolice. It's going to be an evaluation hour by hour, day by day.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: There was a subway station and bus line closed today. Can you say why that was?

KOWALCZYK: I would refer you to MTA. Those are open right now. That was the latest information I had coming out.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Because the police asked them to close them. I was wondering if they were closed.

KOWALCZYK: Again, I would refer you to the MTA for comment on that.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What time will the people be -- (INAUDIBLE).

KOWALCZYK: So we are looking at the time that people came in to central booking and making sure that we don't violate that 48-hour process. That will be an ongoing evaluation throughout the course of the day. Again, our hope, our fervent hope and what we're working hard to do is to ensure that we can charge as many people before that 48-hour window as we can. Again, we'll brief within about an hour, hour and a half on anything. Anybody have anything else?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Is the National Guard deployed on or near any school property?

KOWALCZYK: I don't know. I can find out those specifics. I know that we've deployed resources at a bunch of different places throughout the city, anywhere there's -- again, an area where people could potentially congregate, where there's concern because of previous incidents of violence, we have resources deployed.

We'll see you all in about an hour and a half.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. So you've been listening to this police captain here in Baltimore. He was running through the numbers, talking about the charging process. Since curfew last night, 10:00 eastern, 35 people have been arrested. It is such a positive step forward when we were showing some of the pictures from Monday night. Just juxtapose that with the calm, the peace today. He said they are monitoring one protest that looks peaceful. He said they're also watching as classes are dismissed because back today, Baltimore schools have reopened. So watching to make sure that all goes off without a hitch.

When we come back, I really want to share with you this phenomenal conversation I had with this 24-year-old young man. We just walked the streets of west Baltimore. He was born and raised here. He has some stories to tell about police. And he said to me, "Brooke, I don't want to be the next Freddie Gray." His own words, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:37:33] BALDWIN: And we are now officially in the second inning here, bottom of the second inning. You have the Baltimore Orioles taking on Chicago's White Sox. We're having a first, ladies and gentlemen, in our nation's history as far as Major League Baseball is concerned. Probably not the kind of first the city of Baltimore would like to have, in which you're staring at a stadium with players playing a game in which there's no one in the seats. This is out of precaution, they say, for the city of Baltimore, but also because a lot of police would be needed down here at Camden Yards. They need those police elsewhere. So we're going to come back to the story here with the Orioles.

But first, I want to take a moment and share a conversation I had with you with this 24-year-old young man here, who admitted to me, he said, listen, I used to sell cocaine and heroin on these city streets. That changed five years ago. But he talked to me about what it was like growing up here, what we should be talking about here as part of this national conversation, and how he feels about police, and how he feels like he does not want to be the next Freddie Gray.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BALDWIN: What have you seen in your dealings with cops?

CARDE CORNISH (ph), BALTIMORE RESIDENT: One of my encounters with a couple of cops -- they say growing up in the city, a lot of kids, they sell drugs because that's what's going on around them. It's like almost normal, which is weird.

BALDWIN: What's normal, selling drugs?

CORNISH (ph): Yeah. So running from the cops isn't weird. It's not every day that a guy is getting killed for running from the cops. But I've heard many officers say, you know, if you guys run from us and we got to chase you down and see you hiding somewhere, you know, dead men can't talk in court. They say we come back running at them. They can say we had a gun or say we had something. That almost gives them probable cause.

BALDWIN: Reason suspicion. You know the lingo.

CORNISH (ph): You could get robbed by them.

(LAUGHTER)

BALDWIN: Robbed by police?

CORNISH (ph): Yes, undercover cops.

BALDWIN: Has that ever happened to you?

CORNISH (ph): It's never happened to me, but I know people it's happened to. They'll come by and announce they're police. Some guy is running. They'll take what they can take. They had a story about guys who are taking their shoes and stuff. That's just one of countless incidents.

BALDWIN: Can I back up to your point about how selling drugs is normal? How long did you sell drugs?

CORNISH (ph): It wasn't a long time. But it's only a matter of time until you partake in it, no matter what it is. It's like sports. If you grow up in a community where everybody is playing sports, you're likely to play some kind of sports. It's --

(CROSSTALK)

[14:40:21] BALDWIN: It's what you know. It's your community. What were you selling?

CORNISH (ph): Heroin, cocaine, light stuff, nothing that's --

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: You consider that light?

CORNISH (ph): I mean --

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: You consider that light. That's the reality here in Baltimore, here on these streets. So listen, obviously you know it's breaking the law, but in selling those drugs, did you come in contact with police? Were they familiar with you in the neighborhood?

CORNISH (ph): For the most part. We had some officers who patrolled the community. They kind of knew us. A lot of them weren't that brutal. A lot of them would come around, sit and talk with us. Like, you guys know what you're doing is wrong.

BALDWIN: They would sit and talk with you?

CORNISH (ph): Yeah, you know what you're doing is wrong, you need to stop it. But then you got some officers, who they may be with their partner one day and cool with you, but then they may be with another crew and they're not so cool.

BALDWIN: Define "not cool."

CORNISH (ph): It's almost like an image they got uphold for certain people.

BALDWIN: What about this whole running away from police? You were saying, they say to you don't run, but a lot of the issues with all of these stories we're now telling for better or for worse, you know, these folks are running.

CORNISH (ph): You never know what's going to happen if you stay there. It's unpredictable.

BALDWIN: Can you explain that multi-second thought process when it's either bolt or deal with police?

CORNISH (ph): I mean, if you know you're doing something wrong, of course you're going to run. Then sometimes it's unpredictable what these police are going to do, especially with the undercover cops. They may take you from the scene where you were doing wrong and take you somewhere else and mix you up with something else. I haven't had any extreme experiences with the police, but I have some friends who have. They would like pick them up for selling drugs. Sometimes they wouldn't even arrest you. They'd do crazy stuff like maybe drop you off in another part of town where some guys are out and be like, hey, he's snitching and just put you out the car.

BALDWIN: Do you feel like for the most part in your dealings that Baltimore police are good? Is it just a matter of bad apples? Or is it worse than that?

CORNISH (ph): I think it could be brushing up against worse than that.

BALDWIN: Be honest with me.

CORNISH (ph): They aren't held to, like -- like, when they do something wrong, they don't get punished for it. When we do something wrong, it's like we go for the whole ride.

BALDWIN: Some people in the community where Freddie Gray was shot made the point there were eight surveillance cameras from the city and not a single one caught the arrest. He was saying, on the flip side, if I was committing a crime, absolutely.

CORNISH (ph): There would be cameras against me. That's interesting. These cops can get away with anything. I mean, when they break the law, it's almost like there is no law for them. They can do what they want. It's weird.

BALDWIN: And all these videos, are you following all this in the news? All these videos, people now are grabbing their cameras, but the fear now is that by putting all this on TV, people are becoming numb. Do you worry about that?

CORNISH (ph): I feel a little numb to it, just seeing all of the police brutality and stuff that's going on.

BALDWIN: Have you had any --

(CROSSTALK)

CORNISH (ph): It's weird. People run now because it's like you see videos of cops killing people. It's not like, you know, this guy got hurt and he died by mistake and the cops owned up to it. They're just killing people now at this point. The video of the guy getting shot, the guy that was running away from the police and getting shot. Like, what could that guy have done if he was running away from you? Why didn't you use your taser? Then you got incidents like the Freddie Gray situation where guys are in handcuffs. How much can you do if you're in handcuffs?

BALDWIN: What needs to happen now? How does this get -- this whole situation improve?

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Because not all cops are bad.

CORNISH (ph): Hold these officers accountable for their actions. If I were to hurt you here right now, I would go to jail. I wouldn't go on vacation with pay, none of that. I wouldn't go back to work. I would be sitting in a cell until they decide what they're going to do to you, what they want to do to you, whatever. But these cops are just -- it's like they got a bit of freedom right now. It's weird. That's the numbing feeling. Like, they can get away with it. People just feel -- that's why people are scared of cops. You don't know what's going to happen. Am I going to be the next Freddie Gray if I come in contact with the cops?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[14:45:] BALDWIN: I just want to thank Carde for talking to me. Again, I just want to reiterate that's one young man's perspective, one young man's experience here in Baltimore. You know, on the flip side, we talked to a number of law enforcement officers, many of whom are absolutely phenomenal. But this is his experience, and we just wanted to hear it today here in the city.

As far as the city and bigger picture, you know, listen, the city has Camden Yards here behind me, in which this game is playing out, sans people in the stands. You have the National Aquarium. You have the beautiful inner harbor. But the heartbreaking images here this week of the riots and tear gas and the fires and looting have cast a bit of a shadow over the city. Now Baltimore is not only left with some long-term scars but potentially an image problem.

Darias Irani, chief economist at Towson University here in Baltimore, is here with me to talk a little bit about his impressions.

Sir, thank you so much for coming down to the baseball stadium with us. Let's just begin with that.

DARIAS IRANI, CHIEF ECONOMIST, TOWSON UNIVERSITY: Sure. Sure, Brooke. The baseball game, played without fans, costs the city about 50 jobs overall. About $350,000 in sales and sales tax. So the big grand scheme of the city's employment, about 300,000 plus is not a big number. But the images being broadcast to the nation --

(CROSSTALK) BALDWIN: Because this is on TV. It's on cable.

IRANI: Exactly. Being broadcast, sort of heart wrenching.

BALDWIN: Don't you think people understand why this is happening? It's part of the issue. A lot of police are needed to handle terrific and people crossing the street, et cetera. Those cops are needed in a different part of town.

IRANI: Oh, yeah. Exactly. This is needed for safety reasons. But the pictures on Monday, the pictures on Saturday all sort of add to an image that Baltimore does not need or does not deserve to have over the long term. This is a beautiful city.

BALDWIN: You know, I've been here a number of times. I used to live in Washington. I'd pop up here to come to games. You have one part of Baltimore where we've been covering the story. In a different part of Baltimore, you have the inner harbor and the aquarium and other gorgeous parts of the city. I think people watching that don't know the city don't know that. Your concern isn't short term but long term. How, specifically?

IRANI: Long term, there's a huge number of housing developments going up in the city from the east harbor. You have growth going up Charles Street to the corridor. Those areas may be stalled. The mall where it began Monday afternoon is a perfect example. That mall in the 1990s was a run-down mall. Target came in and invested money. Major retailers came in. The concern is those major retailers may have to think twice now given what's going on. And thank god this has slowed down. Last night was very calm. There were minimal arrests.

BALDWIN: If you're the city, how do you get ahead of that, ahead as best as they possibly can? It all happened Monday. It's Wednesday. What does the city need to say to folks who are interested in coming to Baltimore, major corporations, conventions? Obviously that's a huge, huge part of the economy here.

IRANI: Oh, exactly. I think the city has to sort of obviously show a force that indicates the city is serious about its law enforcement but also recognize there are fundamental problems with the police department regarding the young individuals. So I think the city has to sort of rebuild its image. It's a long-term event. It won't happen overnight. I'm hoping cooler heads will prevail going forward in the city. Perhaps calm and unity, which I think will go a long way. Those images on TV will show the city as unified. They understand that what happened on Monday and Saturday were aberrations and not reflective of the true city's character of being a great host to many outside visitors. I think it's very important for people to come in here and explore the charms of the city and hopefully move here.

BALDWIN: Darius, thank you so much.

IRANI: Thank you very much.

[14:49:09] BALDWIN: Thank you so much, sir.

And coming up next here, live from Baltimore today, it's 23 years to the day since those riots erupted in a different part of the country, in Los Angeles. How has that city learned from that, moved past that, improved its city in the wake of what happened? We'll talk to the lawyer of Rodney King, the man whose beating by police led to the L.A. riots now more than two decades ago.

You're watching CNN's special live coverage. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Days after the mayhem erupted in Baltimore, many are saying that that is what's happening here reminds them of the riots from the '60s. When you look at the two, yes, similar circumstances involving police officers, someone's death, apparently at the hands of police, and anger and frustration with the system. Those same memories extend to Los Angeles 23 years ago today.

It was April 29th, 1992, when those four Los Angeles police officers were acquitted in the brutal beating of the late Rodney King. That beating was caught on tape, polarized the city and nation over issues of police brutality and racism. The reaction? For four days, the city burned, unraveled. Fires, looting, mob violence, 53 people lost their lives. Communities were absolutely devastated. The cost? A billion dollars in damages. You talk to some, the names have changed, the injustices have not. Here I am in Baltimore.

Joining me from Los Angeles, the attorney for the late Rodney King, Milton Grimes.

Mr. Grimes, welcome. Thank you so much for joining me today.

MILTON GRIMES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Hello, Brooke. Thank you for having me.

[14:55:00] BALDWIN: Thank you.

You successfully represented Rodney King in that civil suit against the city of Los Angeles, and on a day like today where 23 years have passed, when you see what's happened here in Baltimore and you lived it in L.A., what parallels do you personally see?

GRIMES: Things haven't changed very much, Brooke. There's still pain suffered by minority people, especially black men because of the amount of police brutality put upon them. Things haven't changed that much. You see the pain of people coming out in what's happening, this civil disobedience. But we need to purge. We need to do some serious purging of our law enforcement and somehow get it across that people can only take so much injustice.

BALDWIN: There is definitely a lot of pain here in Baltimore, but let me ask you just about Los Angeles specifically. Since the early '90s, what changes have been in place there economically, socially, within the communities?

GRIMES: The police department has not seriously changed. There's still that culture of brutality. There's still that culture of silence by law enforcement, in Baltimore in particular. It's been a number of days now since that incident. We should have some answers as to what happened to that young man. You have six or eight officers who were witnesses to what happened to him. Surely the public should know by now what the truth is.

BALDWIN: You know, you talk about seeking truth, and people here talk about seeking justice. That's one issue with police. I understand that's how you see police in L.A. At least we know this is the nation's largest police force. The police commission approves body cameras, so they are used there. Beyond the police, what about any kind of improvements within the city of Los Angeles?

GRIMES: We still have a lot of poverty. We have a lot of homelessness. We have a lot of injustice. There have been some changes, yes, but we still have too many people in poverty, too much illiteracy. In the inner city, the kids don't look at going to college. They look at dropping out of school, selling drugs. They don't have the American dream in front of them.

BALDWIN: Isn't that so much of what this is about? I was just having lunch with a young woman. She was saying to me, you know, Brooke, go inside, don't just walk along west Baltimore streets. Go in the grocery stores. Notice what you see along the streets, what they're lacking in these communities where it's take-out, take-out --

GRIMES: Right.

BALDWIN: -- liquor store, liquor store, market.

GRIMES: Liquor stores and churches.

BALDWIN: On that level, they're lacking. GRIMES: Liquor stores, churches, and fast food, that's what you see,

and higher priced goods in grocery stores. The same store in the inner city, the products are not as good, not as fresh, and cost more. Everybody sees that.

BALDWIN: That's the issue. And we need to continue to shine a light on it. I plan to do so for the rest of the week here as I'm in Baltimore.

Milton Grimes, thank you so much --

GRIMES: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: -- for your time today.

And we're up live here, hour two, special live coverage from the city of Baltimore. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

I'm just in front of Camden Yards, the home of the Baltimore Orioles here. It's this bizarre first in Major League Baseball history. It's happening right here, the Orioles playing the White Sox in basically an empty stadium. Fans are being kept out. I don't know if we can get a shot of these crowds here just over my left shoulder. Yep, they've actually grown. You have a ton of media and maybe two dozen fans that are here in Baltimore orange, ready to cheer their home team on. At least they're winning. I can tell you that. All of this, though -- let's keep this in perspective. All of this in the name of public safety as Baltimore approaches its second night under the city wide mandatory curfew starting in just about seven hours from now.

Right now, police and protesters do appear to be on a positive path. Tuesday night, cooperation beat out confrontation. No riots, no looting, unlike the city saw Monday. Just a couple minutes ago, we were listening to the Baltimore police captain give an update. He threw some numbers out. 35 arrests since the curfew last night. There were several hundred who defied the curfew to speak out against police brutality, following the death of 25-year-old Freddie Gray, died in police custody, had the severed spinal cord. Officials do know that school is about to let out. That police captain alluding to the fact that they're, indeed, monitoring that process.