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235 Arrested in Baltimore; Local Reverend Says Baltimore Will Be Rebuilt. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired April 28, 2015 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[14:30:00] RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We were lucky to find some water that we could share with some of the people who were out, who had their eyes burned. This crowd is trying to maintain this line right here to make sure that there's peace between this crowd and the officers. So far, the relative calm is going on because the crowd has decided they want to make sure it remains peaceful. The one person arrested had been taken away. That one person almost fractured all the work that everyone had been doing all day long. You see how tense this can become just in a flash point.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: At least it was just that one person. I think it's incredible to point that out. And kudos to those, you know, members of the community out there. You know, that's what we started to see last night. Even reportedly gang members here in Baltimore wanting to help police, to stop the riots. Also I remember seeing the Vietnam veteran that Joe Johns talked to who stood out there --

(CROSSTALK)

YOUNG: Somebody just --

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: -- trying to stop any of this, any of the looters.

Again, Ryan -- again, Ryan, who are the people in the T-shirts?

YOUNG: We have a crowd who has shown up. Well, these are trying to hold the peace. They've shown up from outside the crowd who have decided to start throwing bottles at police. They're not part of the original protest it appears. They've come later on. And the group in the T-shirts and the other people are trying to hold the line. It's one or two people who have decided to instigate things. When that happens, the police feel they need to respond. In fact, some of the peacemakers last time were even hosed with that pepper spray, which, by the way, glows orange, that's on the back of our shirts and bodies. As you look here, this young man here is standing up and telling everyone to push back, and they will not allow anyone to come at the police officers. But there is a group that's shown up that looks like they are determined to try to tang well officers.

BALDWIN: Again, Ryan, as we're watching, perhaps, you know, a couple of bad apples in a crowd of peaceful protesters. You have all these people from the community, as I was saying, as we saw last night, trying to stop it. Talk me through, as we look at all of this going on live, what's happening now.

YOUNG: I can honestly tell you this -- let me explain the tension. You see the group in the core, the center. They are trying to maintain a line. In fact, they have decided to push forward than try to move the group back. They are trying to make sure no one throws anything at officers. We will see a new surge of people who have shown up in the last 30 minutes. The look on their face is one of confrontation. They do not want to hear what the group who's trying to hold the line is saying. They want to have their go at officers. That's making it difficult.

BALDWIN: We'll stay on the pictures. Can you tell me, perspective-wise, how has the crowd grown over the course of last couple of hours?

YOUNG: Well, if you look at it now, everyone has left the front of the CVS and moved toward the front of where the officers are. The crowd surged after the pepper spray was sprayed. I'm telling you, people became angry. In fact, we saw several men who decided to throw punches at officers. They were stopped because several people went and grabbed them physically and removed them from the front of the crowd. They move faster than the officers do to make sure to make sure this didn't -- still, a lot of women and children started running at the same time because they did not want to get sprayed by the pepper spray that's left a lasting effect on a lot of people throughout this crowd.

BALDWIN: For people who aren't familiar with the city of Baltimore, again, just laying it out. I was over there where the CVS is. There's a huge sign on the front of it that says, "This property is condemned." There are people inside trying to clean it out. You look up, it's pitch black. Wires hanging from the ceiling, charred from the fire from last night. How far are you from -- let's remember why people are out and demanding justice, the death of 25-year-old Freddie Gray, where did that happen in conjunction from where you are right now?

YOUNG: OK, wait, hold on, hold on. I'm going to interrupt you real quick. If you notice, they have decided to reorganize this line now. They decided to move everybody out of the center. They wanted to make sure this changed. They have moved the people themselves. This has happened while you were asking that question. You see it -- now they want everybody to put their hands up. Mr. Valentine, who we talked to yesterday, you can see he wants people to back up. You can see what's going on. They have reorganized this line. They're trying to shuffle it. Meanwhile, they pushed all the younger people they were worried about back.

Let's look towards the CVS. The crowd has been pushed this direction. Brooke, really a change, an organizational change because of the men who have decided they wanted to create more distance between the officers and the young men who were standing here, who showed up with that strange look on their faces.

Sorry --

(CROSSTALK)

[14:35:16] No, no. Listen, we'll come back to it. Let me roll with where you're going. It was around this time yesterday, live on TV, and we started seeing pictures. It was around 3:30 eastern. It was the young people who were leaving school, who apparently had plans to toss bricks and rocks at officers. We heard the police captain saying 20 of his officers are injured. How -- schools are out today. These young people are out. So are you seeing -- is it primarily younger high school-aged people where you are in this part of the city?

YOUNG: Basically, it's a split group. We see a lot of men in their 30s and 40s. We are seeing younger men out here, as well. We've even seen teachers who decided, instead of working today, they thought the work should be out here in the streets. They're having conversation with young men that they know because they know the young men don't trust the officers here. They wanted to make sure they were able to stand on the front lines and have the conversation to maybe stop this from happening. I can tell you there are people who have decided, they're tired of seeing the images they've seen and want to make sure -- oh, they're screaming for a lockup. There we go. They're screaming for everybody to back up now. This is being done by the men in the line. They are also screaming, "Do not throw anything." So this is something that they are doing. One protester decided to break this line, and they were telling them that they did not want that protester involved in this protest anymore because of them trying to break the line. This is something they're trying to make a point of.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Back it up!

YOUNG: You see how much and how serious they're taking this in terms of trying to back people up from the officers so they can identify who is trying to throw anything or say anything.

BALDWIN: I know you talked to somebody a wheel ago. I would love to -- a while ago. I would love to. I'll ask you on the fly, on CNN, if we could talk to one of these men trying to keep the peace. These peaceful protesters. Do you mind see figure we can do this --

YOUNG: What's up, brother.

BALDWIN: -- on TV here -- seeing if we can do this on TV here?

YOUNG: Yeah, I got you.

Look, we're live on CNN now. Wanted to ask a quick question. You guys are obviously trying to make sure the crowd has moved back? Tell me why you think that's important.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The thing about it is we need to keep a barrier between them and us, a safe barrier. This barrier is called a comfort line, a love line. This is black men separating what's going on out here from what could go on back there.

YOUNG: We just witnessed -- we were standing close to each other when that young man came out with all his frustration and threw the bottle. It almost tore everything apart. How but feel when you saw that bottle flying through the air?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Disappointed. Disappointed. It only takes a few to make it bad for the many. The city got tore down last night. The city was put back together and built today. One act like that can destroy the whole thing. It was disappointing.

YOUNG: How important is it to you to see all these people of different nationalities showing up and putting sweat equity back into this neighborhood that a lot of people say has been ignored?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know what, that's the beauty of Baltimore. It's made up of a melting pot of different racial groups, cultures. They all together make one home. It's beautiful to see, the Jews, the white people, Muslims, African-Americans, Caucasians, all come together for common cause. Sorry, I lost my voice.

YOUNG: No, you're good.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This community is important not only to the people that live in it now the people who live outside of it because it's a part of Baltimore.

YOUNG: I've got to ask you this question. Everybody's worried about that right there. The sun going down. Are you worried about tonight?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't worry. It's Baltimore. We're ready. And we're saying no violence. We know our own people. We're going to take precautions like right here, OK. We thought about this line. We thought about what's going to come tonight. We're going to welcome it. We're going to embrace it. Everybody can be met with love.

YOUNG: What did you think of their response, when they sprayed everybody with pepper spray, were you upset?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not really because it wasn't meant for everybody. It's a tense situation. And when someone throws a bottle and tries to harm someone, they need to be taken into custody. That's -- that's not right. But the injustice against people who have done nothing, that's why we're here, to keep those types of things from happening. But if someone wants to do that, you see what happens.

[14:40:01] YOUNG: Speak about today. Today was a different situation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I came out here to help clean up. When I came down and saw all these crowds of people, I decided to get in this line. This is more important. It's a lot different than last night when there was just -- looked like something off of a movie. Now there's a lot of peaceful protests. You know, the -- there's a lot of frustration, but there's a lot of peaceful protests. And I'm just glad that you all are here getting the whole picture. Today has been more peaceful than not.

YOUNG: That's been very important. Everybody's talking about that. You wanted the media to show the change, that's why you're here, as well.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of us guys, these guys are basketball leaders. We coach the kids in Baltimore, Cloverdale, or east side, west side. I'm an educator for Baltimore city schools for 23 years. I'm a Baltimore city coach. I have kids through college. You know, whatever it takes. And see the unity here is more of -- on a good wave of helping. Instead of the negativity -- we're not looking at negativity today. It's about helping, trying to help the community out. There's a lot of people here who love Baltimore and loves the CVS and Pennsylvania Avenue. We're showing that love today. I thank God that you guys are here to the brighter side of Baltimore. They painted a picture about us like it's Baltimore's on fire --

(CROSSTALK)

YOUNG: It was on fire. You can't --

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm saying when they painted that picture, OK, that was that. Today, it's a new days. There's no fire. It's unity. You got people cleaning up here. Volunteering, kids volunteering. You got Baltimore's finest helping us out, too. God is good, man. The spirit is here. And I'm glad you guys are here. And all these powerful black men here that's doing a good job. Thank them, too, sir. And our kids, when you all see this here, be positive. Don't do nothing stupid. We love you all, OK?

YOUNG: You hear the sentiment. This is the line. This is the line. Then you have the group that's shown up with 300 -- 300 men. They wanted to put the barrier out, as well. You see the change that's going on in the last 12 to 14 hours.

BALDWIN: That is exactly what I wanted us to hear. I had a feeling they would be as phenomenal as they were, those two men and their love line.

Ryan Young, thank you so much. It is so important to hear, not just see Baltimore burning, but also see the peace, see the hope as these people. I don't know how many days they would stand on the love line. They've got to help stop it because this is their community. They want Baltimore back.

Ryan Young, thank you very much.

I'm Brooke Baldwin, live in front of city hall. We'll sneak a quick break in. You're watching CNN special coverage here of what's been happening in the city of Baltimore. On the other side of the break, I'm going to bring in my colleague, Sunny Hostin. She knows Baltimore more than most of us here at CNN. We'll get her impression of what's been happening and what's to be expected later this evening. Stay with me.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:47:12] BALDWIN: Here we go, live in front of Baltimore city hall. We have been watching the better portion of the last half-hour a number of groups converging not far from where I am. If you know Baltimore, North Avenue and Pennsylvania Avenue, that's where the CVS was burned down last night. You have crowds, most of whom are peaceful, I've seen myself. And then there are some who toss bottles or bricks at officers and an arrest or two there.

Given that, let's get perspective from my colleague at CNN, Sunny Hostin, former federal prosecutor. She was with the city of Baltimore for a number of years, close with the mayor. We're entirely transparent on that.

There has been some criticism, though, in the fact that she perhaps should have said, you know, to the governor, together, declare a state of emergency on Saturday. We -- we already saw a melee and criminal activity then. Why wait until several days later?

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I think the criticism is unfounded. Baltimore is a large city. Some of the lessons from Ferguson, when you preempt the police in communities of color that have these long-time tensions with the police department, that can escalate a situation. I think, in a sense, this mayor was sort of damned if she didn't and damned if she didn't.

BALDWIN: She was saying -- I think when we talked about Ferguson and the optics of armored trucks, some of which we've seen here in Baltimore, the shields and batons, almost ready to do battle --

HOSTIN: Sure.

BALDWIN: -- I think what she was saying, her fear would be that, of escalating the situation. But, my god, look at the city last night. Would you ever have thought you would see the pictures we saw? Would that have prevented an attack?

HOSTIN: I don't know. I think THAT certainly we'll look at this and exam this the way we examined Ferguson in terms of action or inaction. I don't know what the answer to that is.

But I do know that, because I am personal friends with the mayor, I know she's a measured person, thoughtful. She's a critical thinker. She's an attorney, a mother. She is very much the daughter of Baltimore. Her father was a legendary legislator here in Baltimore. And she lives in the very same place that she's lived for 20 years. When I met the mayor -- it's not in the best neighborhood. Her kid goes to the public school, and where she lives is right where her brother was almost murdered at the front door. She loves the city. To suggest she wasn't doing everything she could to protect the city that she loves, I think, is a mischaracterization of the person that she is.

That said, when you see the peaceful protesters standing in front of the lines of police goes to show that there are people that love the city, that do want their voices to be heard. There's a contingent with an uneasy relationship with police. The low-hanging fruit, as journalists, is talking about the rioting. What we need to focus on is, why do young people feel they need to destroy their own neighborhoods to get their messages heard. That is the issue, isn't it?

[14:50:48] BALDWIN: Right. That is the issue. And not losing sight of the death of 25-year-old Freddie Gray, right?

HOSTIN: Right.

BALDWIN: On the day that he was -- you know, the funeral was held for him and he was laid to rest. When you have Freddie Gray's family saying, please, don't do this, the young people in the city didn't listen.

HOSTIN: Yeah.

BALDWIN: Let me bring in David Katz, formerly with the DEA.

You were with NYPD for a number of years, David Katz. I don't know if you're in front of the monitor and have been watching what's been playing out over the last half-hour. My question to you is this: You're a member of police and have a couple of protesters, a couple of bad apples, a couple of bad seeds who want to start something, how do you manage that without making it worse for those who have every right to be there to speak their mind?

DAVID KATZ, FORMER DEA AGENT & FORMER NYPD OFFICER (voice-over): That's the key. There's a balance that needs to be struck between the good people of Baltimore who are actually -- I understand completely why they want to protest and make their voices heard. The thugs, the miscreants, looting, robbing, throwing bricks at police, they need to be removed from this arena. The way to do that is to identify at the earliest moment, not what the mayor did. I heard a comment yesterday, giving people who want to destroy room to destroy. I listened to it several times because I couldn't believe the words were coming out of the mouths of publish officials. If you wait for the -- out of public officials. If you wait for the situation to escalate, you see people agitating violence, they need to remove people seeking violence. That's only the first half. The second half is vigorous prosecution. It's only a matter of time before they get out of hand and someone get hurt or far worse. You will have people at this point now -- I'm surprised no one's been killed. But it's going to happen unless the people who are committing violence are removed before it gets to the level we saw yesterday.

BALDWIN: We also heard one person is in critical condition according to a police captain.

Let me just also jump in because I'm just speaking to you, the viewer. I was with you watching this play out on your TV set like I did on mine. I've been in Baltimore a number of times. I love the city. I've been to Camden Yards for a game. I've been to the inner harbor, the whole deal. It's a wonderful place. There's a tremendous amount of loss, damage, a loss of hope. But moving forward, let me show you what I saw just in the last couple of hours of being here. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BALDWIN: This is east Baltimore. And this is absolutely

heartbreaking. This is a $16 million loss. It would have been affordable housing for senior citizens in this community, helping them with their mortgage, HIV/AIDS testing. And it's now all gone. You can still smell the fires from last evening, and some of it, the smoke, still smoldering, still.

I just spoke with the reverend here who says they still noon rebuild from the ash.

How does your heart feel?

REV. DONTE HICKMAN, SOUTHERN BAPTIST CHURCH: A little disheartened and bewilder good what has taken place. We've been -- bewildered about what has taken place. We've been trying to rebuild the community with all of the vacant lots and empty buildings. We saw hope and saw potential and transforming this community by restoring people and rebuilding properties.

BALDWIN: You saw hope. When you spin around and all you see is this charred mess, what do you see now?

HICKMAN: I see the hopelessness and mentality of the people, but I still see hope in God that we can rise from the ashes and rebuild. We have to rebuild. This cannot be the legacy of Baltimore. This cannot be the testimony of a church that has existed for 80 years in the community. This sour opportunity to overcome -- this is our opportunity to overcome, to rebuild, and show the community we really care despite the negativity that's taken place.

[14:55:07] BALDWIN: I know you're a man of God, a strong man. We're not even 24 hours since this has happened. How do you find that strength?

HICKMAN: It took god less time to start creating the earth. My faith in God sustains me and gives me resilience, a peace that we saw surpasses all understanding, that even in the midst of this, I know that we can build something greater.

BALDWIN: Is there any piece of your heart that's angry?

HICKMAN: When I first arrived, my human emotion was anger, bewilderment, confusion. The people in the community know me, they know Southern Baptist Church. They know we stand for the community. In fact, I was just leaving an organization of pastors that were rallying for peace all last night and for justice, and then to come over and be someone who did this, it must have someone who didn't understand that we are fighting on behalf of the people.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Isn't this all about justice though? I feel like people -- who I talked to, they're losing sights of what this is about. This is a 25-year-old young man who lost his life. There are so many questions about that. Now the narrative is about Baltimore burning. HICKMAN: Yes, this is absolutely about the injustices that have

taken place, and not only injustice, but the lack of quality education and employment. Many of our citizens have gone unheard and unnoticed, they have been leave with dilapidation. They've been left without a voice and without people that would listen to them. We stand as visionaries and witnesses that we're not going to allow these injustices to persist. Tomorrow, we'll be meeting at the states attorney office, even in the wake of this, to pursue justice. We're going to Marilyn Mosby (ph). We have heard from here. We don't want this swept under the carpet. We don't want our political officials to think they're going to passively sit by and watch this happen. This should be a wake-up call to every politician, to every faith leader, to every business person that we have to mitigate against these unjustices that cause stuff like this from happening.

BALDWIN: Are you nervous this about evening?

HICKMAN: I'm not nervous at all. I'm really hopeful that we're going to experience a breakthrough. And that people last night as we were meeting with gang leaders, gang members, young people need people to listen to them and hear them cry --

BALDWIN: Do they?

HICKMAN: -- instead of do this. This is reactionary. This is emotional. This is frustration. This is I don't know what else to do. But we have to do something. If we can rebuild Iraq, we can rebuild east Baltimore.

BALDWIN: We just wanted to hop in the car to show you how far spread from one example of destruction and rioting from last night is to the next. We are in east Baltimore. We're now in west Baltimore. And we've seen people hanging out. You hear the helicopters buzzing above, police, the news. A lot people out in this community today. You see them cleaning up bottles.

Want to take you now to the CVS that's up the street that was burned down. This is or really was the CVS that you saw being burned last night, condemned. People inside, cleaning it, and take a spin with me. This of the epicenter of much of the rioting and criminal activity from last night. And now we are surrounded by members of the media, people in the community.

I want to see you something real quickly. See over there? A number of demonstrators on one side. Police with shields on another, an armored vehicle. The city is now under state of emergency. You have a citywide curfew for the rest of the week. The question is, is this over.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[14:59:17] BALDWIN: That is just a piece of what I saw just in the last couple of hours in east Baltimore and west Baltimore.

Just a quick note in talking to the Reverend Donte Hickman, he said if you lost $60 million and you have this hope, how are you going rebuild? He said, you know what, I'm going to talk to President Obama, the governor. I'm going bring in private investors. We're going to rebuild it. We're going to rebuild it better. That's what the reverend says.

Quick break. We're back. Special coverage live in Baltimore after this.

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