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CNN'S AMANPOUR
Damage and Desperation in Nepal; Interview with Joanna Lumley; Imagine a World. Aired 2-2:30p ET
Aired April 28, 2015 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN HOST (voice-over): Tonight: (INAUDIBLE).
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JOKO WIDODO, PRESIDENT OF INDONESIA (through translator): We are not going to compromise for drug dealers, no compromise.
AMANPOUR (voice-over): And later, breathtaking pictures as CNN sees the rural damage from Nepal's earthquake for the first time. India is leading
the relief effort and I speak to the foreign --
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JOANNA LUMLEY, ACTOR (voice-over): They are a brave and resilient people. They're not beggars. They're not sad for themselves. They're fabulously
fit because they have to be in that country. They're family people, they're community people.
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AMANPOUR: Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the program. I'm Christiane Amanpour.
We will go to the Indonesia story shortly but first they are digging with their own hands, three days after the massive earthquake hit Nepal,
survivors in some places are still going through the rubble themselves, desperate to find loved ones and desperate for help.
Nepal's prime minister warned that the death toll could double to 10,000 people as the poor country struggles to deploy emergency aid in the capital
and beyond. Thousands of Nepalis are still sleeping on pavements or in parks, fearful of aftershocks or because they no longer have a home.
Hospitals are overflowing with patients and food and water are becoming more scarce by the day. International aid is finally trickling but much
more is needed. Death and destruction are everywhere.
CNN's Sumnima Udas and producer Sugan Papral (ph) are both Nepali and today they saw it with their own eyes from the sky in a Nepal Air Force
helicopter. Here's Sumnima's report from above the Kathmandu valley. Bad weather prevented the team reaching the worst-hit areas, though, in the
north.
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SUMNIMA UDAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is why it's been so difficult to get into Kathmandu. Nepal's only international airport has a
single runway, chockablock. And this is why I've always feared what a strong earthquake would do to this city I call home.
A maze of narrow, long houses, so crammed, the United Nations warned in 2012 that Nepal is a disaster waiting to happen.
As we traverse the mountains then circle Kathmandu valley, the enormous challenges rescue and relief convoys face becomes clear.
From up here, you can see why it's so difficult to get relief into these parts of Nepal. The terrain is so mountainous, the homes are so high up,
it's so spread out.
So many homes and farmland devastated along with livelihoods, landslides blocking national highways.
LT. COL. A.J. THAPA, NEPAL ARMY: We flown for, what, 45 minutes now and you see almost every village has been affected.
UDAS (voice-over): Lieutenant Colonel A.J. Thapa of the Nepalese Army says the first 72 hours are crucial.
THAPA: It's not (INAUDIBLE). This is the time to go out and save lives. Please remember, we are not an outside force that has been pastured into an
area to help. We are victims ourselves.
UDAS (voice-over): We are headed to Jhochhen, one of the worst affected areas in Northern Nepal, but the weather turns.
We're having to turn back now because it's going to start raining soon and the captain here says he will not be able to land. So we're headed towards
a different direction now.
We make a pitstop at a community hospital. Six different districts are being brought to this community hospital. Normal capacity here, doctors
say, is about 375 and already there are 1,000 people here and while we've been here almost every other minute more and more patients are being
brought in.
They're running short of supplies. But doctors say they can't discharge those who have recovered because they have no home to go to.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our resources are limited but still right now human resources, space, medical supplies and our all backup, everything is
limited but we are trying stretch everything as much as possible to provide the care for each and every patient to save their life.
UDAS (voice-over): This is a country reeling politically, economically and now this. What gives me hope is the resilience of the people, though.
People here already deal with so much hardship, whether you talk about 18- 20 power cuts a day, even in Kathmandu valley, whether you talk about just extreme levels of poverty, whether you talk about a fractured political
environment.
But still, people figure things out. They persevere in the most difficult of times. And deep inside I know Nepal will bounce back -- Sumnima Udas,
CNN, Kathmandu, Nepal.
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AMANPOUR: So those personal reflections and investigations from our Sumnima Udas, a Nepali herself. And more than 4.5 thousand people are
known to have died in the devastating quake, including more than 70 in India, which was one of the first nations to respond, as Prime Minister
Narendra Modi immediately took to the airwaves and promised to send planes and trucks, food and medicine and rescue teams to help the relief effort.
India's Foreign Secretary S. Jaishankar, joined me moments ago from the capital, New Delhi.
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AMANPOUR: Foreign Secretary Jaishankar, welcome to the program.
Thank you.
AMANPOUR: What is it about this tragedy that has got your country so active and so engaged, one of the first if not the first, to really get in
there with a huge amount of aid?
JAISHANKAR: Christiane, this happens to be a neighbor and a particularly close neighbor at that. And the scale of the outbreak was so massive that
it clearly called for a very major response and a very quick response and we moved. And we've moved in difficult situations earlier. We had just,
for example, sent people into Yemen to extricate those who were stuck in that situation. But this, of course, is a qualitatively different
situation.
AMANPOUR: What does Nepal need right now and how are your efforts, as much as they are being hampered by the sort of accessibility -- by the ability
for Nepal to actually absorb all this aid?
JAISHANKAR: Well, I think what Nepal needs right now -- that's something largely for the Nepalese -- the government of Nepal to determine. What
they have been indicating to us has been broadly what we've been moving to Nepal, which is water, food, earth-moving equipment, tanks, blankets and
most of all, specialized manpower.
We have a number of specialized rescue teams there. We have a number of field hospitals. So we have people who are trying to restore electricity
to parts of Nepal where that's been cut off. So it's really a combination of relief supplies, of rescue teams and of people who try to get life back
to as much normalcy as is possible.
Now in terms of what are the constraints, I think we have to appreciate the very difficult situation that they are in, that there's this one airport
where everybody is going in and that obviously has its limitations.
But in the last day we've been actually sending more stuff by road.
AMANPOUR: Your army has been involved. They've had overflights as well as flights landing with aid.
Can you tell how badly outside of Kathmandu, the capital, has been affected?
JAISHANKAR: Well, we have both the -- we have the air force taking flights and we have some army people. But we have a lot of what we call the
national disaster response team, which is a kind of what we call a home ministry team. It's an interior department force. They've been fanning
out beyond Kathmandu as well.
I think we have some sense of the damage because we have had flights which have done reconnaissance. We've had helicopters which have moved out of --
military helicopters that have moved out of Kathmandu to survey the situation. And what they report is pretty grim. So the scale of the
disaster is indeed very serious but beyond that, it's really hard for me to describe.
AMANPOUR: Describe for me, then, Prime Minister Modi's disaster diplomacy. He's taken to the airwaves. He's promised this aid. He's delivering aid.
But he also sees this as real leadership of the subcontinent. Tell me how this fits into your foreign policy and the leadership of the current
government.
JAISHANKAR: You know, I'm not sure I would put it in quite that way. I think here you had a monumental tragedy. We had the capability to respond.
Prime Minister Modi is a person who makes decisions decisively and when this happened, he tasked the government missionary to get into action. And
that's really what we saw.
Now I think -- I would really categorize this as a instinctive, heartfelt response to a situation of a very, very close neighbor. And I must tell
you that a very, very broad swell of support for what we are doing because a number of provincial governments have offered support. A lot of non-
government organizations have offered support.
This really -- you know, Nepal's such a -- is a society with which we have such close connections that I think almost everybody feels the need to
contribute. So we are really going in there as you would do to a member of family in trouble.
AMANPOUR: So there's no competition, is there, between you and China, for instance? I mean, there's competition in all sorts of other endeavors, but
China immediately jumped in after Prime Minister Modi.
JAISHANKAR: No, no, I don't think that's putting the -- that's really describing the situation in the right way at all. I think in a situation
like this, the entire world should try to help. We happen to be a neighbor who was ready to go, whose prime minister sort of gave the green signal to
go and we are there.
So I wouldn't at all put it -- particularly I think there is really need for everybody to be out there and give a helping hand. And we are doing
our best, not because there's any diplomacy involved. I mean, forgive me for saying it so bluntly, but really because I think they are people
desperately in need of help.
AMANPOUR: Do you believe that all the aid you have poured in, as far as you know, is there a handle on this tragedy now?
JAISHANKAR: I think what we are --
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JAISHANKAR: -- going back to the Nepalese government, to the Nepalese military, to ask them what is it they need most, whatever it is they need,
we are there to provide to the best of our ability. I mean, that's essentially what is happening.
Now the scale of the problem is so big there are a lot of things they do need. And therefore there's a lot for us to do. But this is really -- I
mean, in a sense, I would not merely look at it as policy at all. I think it's a gut reaction response to a great human tragedy.
AMANPOUR: And they are obviously really grateful for all the aid that --
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AMANPOUR: Now Nepalese Gurkha regiments are also in the Indian Army and they are helping now, as are elements of the Gurkha regiment in the British
Army who are right now flying out to Nepal. And next I speak to their most famous champion.
But first, from one state of emergency to another, the National Guard is out in the U.S. city of Baltimore near Washington, D.C., shaken to its
core by yet another police killing of an unarmed African American. But the city's black mayor and most famous writer, David Simon of the Baltimore-
based TV series, "The Wire," are appealing for the revenge violence and looting to stop.
"If you can't seek redress and demand reform without a brick in your hand," says Simon, "you risk losing this moment for all of us in Baltimore. Turn
around. Go home. Please."
That plea from one of Baltimore's most famous sons.
And after a break, she's a worldwide icon from the cult hit, "Ab Fab," but what's less known about actress Joanna Lumley is her fierce commitment and
personal connection to Nepal. We explain when we come back.
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AMANPOUR: Welcome back to the program.
There is, of course, a longstanding bond between the U.K. and Nepal. Through the Nepalese Gurkha regiment that served in the British army since
the 19th century when much of the Indian subcontinent was in fact part of the British Empire.
The region of Gorkha, where the Gurkhas hailed from, is one of the places worst hit by the earthquake. And my next guest, Joanna Lumley, is a
familiar face on our TV screens from films and series like "Ab Fab," but she is also a vocal advocate for the rights of the Gurkha veterans here in
the U.K.
She's the face of Britain's earthquake relief appeal and I asked her why this has become her cause.
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AMANPOUR: Joanna Lumley, welcome to the program.
LUMLEY: Thank you so much.
AMANPOUR: Cult actress (INAUDIBLE) why is it --
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AMANPOUR: -- that sticks right in your heart?
LUMLEY: Because my father served with the Gurkhas for 18 years. He was a regular soldier early with the Gurkhas. So I was born in India because of
him being with the Gurkhas. Then we went out to Hong Kong, then to Malaysia. And all my life I've been a daughter of the regiment and have
followed the flag.
So the Gurkhas feel like family.
AMANPOUR: I read that they are on board; the RAF flight is going over to Nepal. They're trying to help with the relief --
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LUMLEY: -- over there and of course they've got the language. They understand the customs. They know the land. They're fitter than anybody
you can believe. They're used to the altitude there because Nepal is a country -- I know you have seen this in some of your wonderful coverage
you're giving it. Nepal is up and down and up and down in a ways you can't believe it. There are -- the infrastructure is very weak. And most of
that has now been destroyed.
And quite a lot of the poor can only be reached by trekking, by marching for two days, four days, whatever it is.
AMANPOUR: And apparently there was a detachment also on Mt. Everest. They were celebrating a centennial and they were there helping just by chance.
LUMLEY: Just by chance.
AMANPOUR: With evacuating the climbers.
LUMLEY: And we had a very brave double amputee, a Gurkha double amputee who was going to attempt Everest. Thank God he also was saved. But it's
so catastrophic on such a scale that it's actually hard, particularly when you see the images. You can't even think how to start, knowing that under
an awful lot of this chaos are bodies, maybe some people still alive.
And the ghastliness of the wretchedness --
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AMANPOUR: -- you did go to Nepal, you were hailed as Goddess Joanna.
They are really pleased that you basically put them on the map, not just (INAUDIBLE) but also the Sherpas (INAUDIBLE) who are treated so much worse
(INAUDIBLE) climb up there (INAUDIBLE) guides (INAUDIBLE). You know, and when this kind of thing happens, it puts all of that into sharp focus.
LUMLEY: It certainly does and although I'm not belittling anybody who manages to climb Everest, most of the Sherpas who will have (INAUDIBLE)
will have climbed Everest 40 times. We never think of that. That's kind of discarded. That's a tremendous situation, which I hate more than
anything because the more I've traveled, Christiane, in the world, which is a lot in my long life, the more I've found that people are just the same.
People are actually the same.
The administrations may differ in countries, which is why they all operate under different circumstances, but the people are the same. So the losses
they feel out in Nepal are exactly the same as the losses for us. One child lost is enough. One grandmother. Imagine how, in the scale of --
well, they say officially now it's over 5,000 but God knows what it's going to reach.
Because of the nature of Nepal, it's very difficult to fly and land anywhere because there's no landing strip. The last time I was out there
was to open a little school which we'd built. And we had to -- because -- it would have taken so long to drive there that we went by helicopter. We
had to land well outside the village just by a river, which is the only flat that there was.
So very hard to get aid to those remotely --
AMANPOUR: How can people help? Because obviously what you're going to be doing is to try to -- you know, not just help the charities but help people
give more.
What do you think people should do?
LUMLEY: I think people -- the first thing they should do is if you can and if you will please give money but also I think it's worth this time looking
up, characteristic to do it in Nepal, I'm sure if you Google them, you'll find them. Apart from this tragedy, there's another tragedy, a slower-
burning one which has been going in Nepal for some time, which is an enormous of orphaned children who've become street children, an enormous
number of trafficked girls who have their lives ruined by being shipping across borders, used for prostitution, sent back as damaged goods to Nepal.
AMANPOUR: I understand there's a lot of Nepalese women being used as surrogate parents now --
LUMLEY: I read that --
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LUMLEY: -- I had no idea about that.
It's absolutely horrifying. So Nepal is vulnerable. It's -- I don't know the -- we're always listing countries but it's about the fourth poorest in
the world. It's desperately poor. And they are a brave and resilient people. They're not beggars. They're not sad for themselves. They have a
natural -- it sounds very sort of broad-brushstroke to say this, but they tend to have a colossal sense of humor. They're fabulously fit because
they have to be in that country. They're family people, they're community people. They're very tribal, so there are Rais and Gurungs and Limbus and
Puns and things. And they know their own places and they stick and they're quite sort of against each other.
But this catastrophe has united the country. And they are -- I'm called Didi, which means sister to the Nepalese.
AMANPOUR: That's lovely.
LUMLEY: And I love that.
AMANPOUR: They call you Goddess, by the way, but maybe Sister Goddess we'll have.
You've lived all over the world, you said. What is your greatest accomplishment, do you think?
What is the thing you are proudest about in your life?
You're obviously known all over the world as a wonderful actress, as a great comedian. What do you think has made you the most proud of what
you've done?
LUMLEY: I think the things that make me happiest are the small ways which I've ever been able to help people. I was intensely proud of being part of
the team, the Gurkha justice campaign, and the victory we got for the Gurkha soldiers. And there are all kinds of other charities, quite small,
who I'm so proud to help in any small way I can.
I think people say to me, you shouldn't do things to yourself until it makes you happy. Well, I tell you, if you can give something, it does make
you happy and there's nothing wrong with that. So anybody who thinks, hmm, I wonder if it really would help if I sent a fiver along, please do so. It
will make you happy but, by gosh, it'll make a difference.
AMANPOUR: (INAUDIBLE).
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AMANPOUR: -- thank you.
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AMANPOUR: And the world has heard the appeals from Nepal and responded. But imagine a world where a very different and desperate appeal went
unheard. Family, friends and foreign governments have petitioned Indonesia not to execute the nine convicted drug traffickers. What the country's
president told me about capital punishment fitting the crime -- next.
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WIDIDO (through translator): Imagine every day we have 50 people die because of narcotics, because of drugs. In one year, it's 18,000 people
who die because of narcotics. And we are not going to compromise for drug dealers. No compromise. No compromise.
The decision of death penalty is on the court. But they can ask for amnesty to the president.
But I tell you, there will be no amnesty for drug dealers.
AMANPOUR: So no relief for the Australian?
No?
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