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CNN NEWSROOM

Nepal Hit with a 7.8 Earthquake; Protesters in Baltimore for Freddie Gray's Death; Bruce Jenner Transitions; 1.5 Million "Missing" Black Men; Bruce Jenner: I Have the "Soul of a Female"; New Claims Against Hillary Clinton. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired April 25, 2015 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[16:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMARA WALKER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone, you're in the "CNN Newsroom." I'm Amara Walker at the CNN Center, in for Poppy Harlow.

Breaking news on CNN right now, more than 1400 people are dead in a massive earthquake and that number will probably rise considerably in the coming hours. It happened in Nepal, the small Himalayan country between China and India. The earthquake was massive measuring 7.8 and it continued to send aftershocks for hours and even killed people climbing Mount Everest.

It happened at noon local time. Multi-story buildings collapsing into rubble in the capital of Kathmandu. Roads buckled throughout the country.

Well, it is after midnight now. The darkness is hampering rescue efforts and there's just no way to know how many people are still trapped where buildings stood just a few hours ago.

Shiobhain Heanue is a reporter with ABC News Australia and a fellow for the International Reporting Project. She is in Kathmandu right now. And Shevon, it's about 1:45 in the morning. It's dark where you are. Can you set the scene for us and what's happening there around you?

SIOBHAIN HEANUE, ANC NEWS AUSTRALIA: That's right, it's the dead of night here in Nepal. We're still experiencing aftershocks almost - well, in fact, more than 12 hours after the initial quake, which was 7.9 magnitude.

Now most of the people are too scared to return to their homes or they don't have homes to return to so around the city of Kathmandu where I am there are thousands of people who are sleeping on the streets tonight after what has been an extremely devastating and traumatizing day. We have seen history literally crumble in front of our eyes today and even Mount Everest itself was shaken by the disaster that befell this country.

The earthquake met to the destruction of several very historic World Heritages registered sites around Kathmandu and in other places of Nepal. In Mount Everest, there was tragedy at base camp where at least eight trekkers have been pulled from an avalanche, dead. There were avalanches at Mount Everest even though the epicentre of the quake is some distance away. And of course, Kathmandu, the heavily populated capital of the country has experienced devastation as well.

More than 1,000 people have been killed. I watched bodies being pulled from the ruins of a very historic temple complex in the south of the city this afternoon. I was there taking photographs as the earthquake began. It lasted for a minute. It was extremely violent and it sent thousands of people both locals and tourists running for their lives.

WALKER: That's just incredible. We're looking at these images. You're reporting that you actually saw bodies being pulled from the rubble. I want to ask you about the resources there. We have been hearing stories about people, tourists, locals, getting in and trying to pull people out themselves because the authorities on the ground are stretched for resources. Is that what you're seeing as well?

HEANUE: That's absolutely right. Infrastructure is scarce here in Nepal. The army and police had a minimal presence. It was kind of apparent in the aftermath of the quake, but essentially it was locals banding together and tourists in some cases as well jumping into the piles of rubble and clearing it with their hands, with picks, with shovels and trying to get through the mess and look for survivors.

Unfortunately where I was in the Royal Square historic complex, there were no survivors discovered at all. It was an extremely violent quake. There were no options in terms of places where people could run to safety, at the built up area and 12 bodies, at least, were pulled from that area. It's mostly the historic sites. The older, kind of temples and historic buildings around Nepal that has been destroyed, many of them are World Heritage listed. Many of them were destroyed previously in 1934 when there was another huge earthquake in Nepal that killed 10,000 people.

WALKER: Let me jump in there. Siobhan, if I could ask you more about the people though. Where is everyone sleeping? Obviously, a lot of people scared about these aftershocks. You just reported that you felt a few already. There's been dozens of large aftershocks thereafter. Also the kind of aid that the people need there. There's no power and communication is very difficult to get out.

HEANUE: That's right, the communications network is not particularly reliable here in Kathmandu and other parts away from the capital it's even more difficult to make any communication at all. The cell network is down, power is down in many places outside of the capital, Kathmandu. But in Kathmandu, people were sleeping in the open, any green space, any large open roadway they can find. The public transport network was in complete chaos. There were no taxis, there were no public buses for workers and locals to get home.

[16:05:00]

So this afternoon while the whole city was still kind of clouded in this (INAUDIBLE) of dust from the earthquake and from the ruins, from the rubble, there were just thousands upon thousands of people walking through the (INAUDIBLE) trying to make their way home on foot and most of them are sleeping in the open tonight as I am myself because (INAUDIBLE) to stay indoors. Aftershocks (INAUDIBLE) until about half an hour ago, we felt the last one. There are dozens in the 12 hours since the initial quake and some of them have been quite violent.

WALKER: All right, Siobhan Heanue with ABC News in Autralia, really appreciate you keeping us updated. Please stay safe. Obviously, this was a violent earthquake. The people in Nepal need help. It's a very poor country, is international help and some of that is on its way right now as we speak.

Siobhan, thank you. If you want to help the victims of this tragedy, head to cnn.com/impact. There you'll find groups working to help the people of Nepal.

Back here in the United States, hundreds of protesters have gathered in Baltimore. They are marching through the city and calling for the immediate arrests of any officers who played a role in the death of Freddie Gray.

Our Miguel Marquez is right there with the marchers. Miguel, can you tell us what you're seeing, what's happening right now?

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I can tell you this protest has swelled from hundreds to thousands. This is right in front of Orioles Park here where thousands of people are walking through the streets. They had walked through the neighborhood of Gilmore Holmes for some time and came down toward downtown, towards city hall.

This is the first time they have seen police officers, any police presence on this walk, on this march. You can see the police here lined up at Orioles Park. This is as Baltimore as it gets. It's a huge symbol and they saw the police officers lined up along the baseball park they headed for it.

My guess is they will stay here for some time and then move on. There were police cars parked down the way when some protesters saw them they took the chance to (INAUDIBLE) them, to pound on them a little bit, but for the most part it is angry, but peaceful. People are marching for the 25-year-old who was killed here in police custody or died here in police custody or after he was in police custody, I should say.

And they say it is time for that to stop. A long storied history, a controversial history between the citizens of this town and its own police force. The people here it must be 2,000 strong at this point will be marching on. We believe they are headed to city hall and will head back to the Western District Police Station where Mr. Gray was taken and 911 finally called. Amara.

WALKER: About 2,000 strong there in the crowd. Miguel, let me ask you about yesterday's news conference. We heard from the Baltimore Police commissioner. He admitted the officers failed to give Gray that timely medical care that he had been asking for. He also said there were no excuses for the fact that Gray he was not buckled into a seat belt as he was being transported in the police station, to a police station. And now we're just getting this in, a pretty defiant statement from the Baltimore Fraternal Order of Police. It says, quote, "we are disappointed in the comments made yesterday by Commissioner Anthony Batts. These comments appear to be politically driven and in direct contrast to the commissioner's own request, not to jump to any conclusions until the entire investigation is complete. We stand in support of all of our officers as they continue to protect the citizens of Baltimore City."

So you have two conflicting opinions obviously here. Miguel, police, are they lining up behind their fellow officers? I know you spent a lot of time with the protesters. Is there any middle ground emerging here or is there a dividing line between police and the citizens, which is getting worse?

MARQUEZ: Yes, not yet, everything we hear about the city government and how it is operating right now, the mayor and the police commissioner - they are extraordinarily concerned because of this. If you could pan off here, Rich, this crowd has grown throughout the week. This is probably the seventh day now they have taken to the streets. They promise to take the streets every day until they get justice. The investigation into this has been too slow by their standards, by what people here want to see. The government has tried to tell people that they have to go through that process. Amara.

WALKER: The key is the protests are peaceful. Miguel Marquez there, in the thick of it all in Baltimore. Miguel, thank you.

Well, by now most of us have seen various videos that show bits and pieces of what happened on April 12th, the day Freddie Gray was arrested. Baltimore Police stitched those images together to get a better understanding of what exactly happened. Our Nick Valencia has a timeline.

[16:10:00]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Early morning April 12th, 2015. Baltimore man Freddie Gray is arrested after a foot pursuit. Shown here on cell phone video, Gray is in handcuffs as police escort him into the back of a police van. The answer to what kills Gray lies in what happens next.

ANTHONY BATTS, BALTIMORE POLICE COMMISSIONER: We found new information and we will continue to find more information as we go.

MARQUEZ: At a news conference this week, Baltimore Police announced the release of what they say are a series of surveillance cameras that show the incident's time line. At 8:39 a.m., Gray runs through a housing complex. Less than two minutes later, cameras capture a police van driving towards Gray, lighting flashing, a squad car follows.'

Just before 8:42 a.m., Gray is on the concrete under arrest. Two bicycle cops hover over him. Within seconds, residents casually begin to gather at the scene, some with cellphone cameras. By 8:44 a.m., the police van returns to frame. Its back-doors open,

Gray appears to be loaded into the back. At 8:46 a.m. the van drives off.

A police union attorney told CNN what may have followed is a so-called rough ride, a deliberate tactic used by police to harm unbelted, handcuffed passengers. Gray was not buckled in, though the police commissioner says he should have been.

On its way to the police station, the van makes three stops. At 9:11 a.m. nearly 30 minutes after Gray's arrest, the police van is seen making one of those stops. Its back-doors open as police pick up another prisoner. Fifteen minutes later, police call an ambulance for Gray when they arrive at a precinct.

Nearly a week since his death, police have still not released a time line or information about their last interaction with Gray.

(on camera): We know more details about those three stops at that police van made. According to police, during the first stop Gray was placed in leg irons. During the second stop they say to stopped "to deal with Gray," though we don't know what that means. That part is also under investigation.

During the third stop, according to the police commissioner, Gray was seen on the floor of the van requesting a medic. Police say mistakes were made and they also say that their investigation is ongoing.

Nick Valencia, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WALKER: All right. Also the question, of course, remains what happened inside that police van and how did Gray actually sustain these fatal injuries.

Joining me now is retired NYPD detective Harold Thomas. Great to have you on. I know you listened to Nick Valencia's story there. I'm curious to know just how you think the Baltimore Police Department has been handling this.

HAROLD THOMAS, RETIRED NYPD DETECTIVE: Thanks for having me. I don't think they have been handling this correctly at all. First, want to say that this incident and other incidents that - other recent incidents in policing has been exposing some of the bad policing that's been going on for years.

Because of social media, now people can see things that have happened almost in realtime. Police don't have time now to come up with a story to cover their behinds. Before they would have days, weeks, sometimes months before the public found out about such incidents and they would have a good story to explain what happened.

Now they are being (INAUDIBLE) to the cockpit almost immediately. They don't have a story. They can't come up with a story to explain what's going on. I think the more you don't - you're not transparent, the more guilty the officers are looking. U don't think they handled this correctly. I believe personally that he was given a rough ride. I know what that means. When you have a prisoner and he's in a van and you can slam on the brakes and they will slide to the front or you can step on the gas they will slide to the back. Their body will hit the van very hard.

WALKER: How had do these rough rides work? We have heard that there have been several court cases where the suspects one, after they were paralyzed in these "rough rides." How does that take place? Is a police officer giving the orders to the driver to drive in such a way to injure the suspect?

THOMAS: I mean, the suspect could be acting out. You might be angry because you just had to chase this guy and fight with this guy. One of your comrades might have been hurt. I'm not a hypocrite. I have driven a prisoner van before. I know what it's like. If a person doesn't want to shut up, you step on the gas. You make sure you hit every bump in the road.

[16:15:00]

Like I said, if the person is in the front of the van, you step on the gas, they are going to slide all the way to the back and boom, they're going to hit the doors very hard. If they are in the back already, you go fast and you slam on the brakes, they are going to slide to the front, just like a piece of a box, cargo in a UPS van or whatever.

And I just think that the police today, they have to get with policing in today's society. The jig is up. Stuff that guys got away with 20, 30 years ago, you can't do that nowadays. Almost immediately if you're caught doing something wrong, almost immediately it's on the internet. When I used to do orientation for rookies, I would tell them you have to assume everything you do is on camera. If you do your job correctly and a video comes out, that video is going to exonerate you.

WALKER: Yes. We live in a social media age and of course, news spreads very quickly and it goes viral very quickly. Of course, a lot of the protesters also calling for more transparency and some arrests to happen for this investigation to move forward much faster.

Harold Thomas, retired NYPD detective, great getting your perspective. Thanks for the conversation.

THOMAS: Thank you for having me.

WALKER: All right. Ahead Bruce Jenner has lived in the spotlight for years, but decades after winning his Olympic gold medal, he's made a bold, stunning statement saying "I am a woman."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WALKER: Welcome back.

After all the rumors and speculation and tabloid headlines, Bruce Jenner finally confirmed what people have been wondering for months now. The former Olympian turned reality show star is transitioning to a woman at age 65. Here's part of his emotional interview with ABC's Diane Sawyer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRUCE JENNER, FORMER OLYMPIAN: Here I am stuck, and I hate the word girl stuck in a guy's body. I hate that terminology.

DIANE SAWYER, ABC NEWS: Why?

JENNER: I'm me. I'm me, I'm a person and this is who I am. I'm not stuck in anybody's body. It's just who I am as a human being. My brain is much more female than it is male. It's hard for people to understand that, but that's what my soul is.

I look at it this way. Bruce, always telling a lie. He's lived a lie his whole life about who he is. And I can't do that any longer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALKER: Well, after the interview, GLAD released a statement supporting Jenner saying "today, millions of people learned that someone they know is transgender. By sharing this story, Bruce Jenner has shined a light on what it means to be transgender and live authentically in the face of public scrutiny. Though Jenner's journey is one that is deeply personal, it is also one that will impact and inspire countless people around the world."

[16:20:00]

Joining me now to discuss Jenner's transition is Nell Gibbon, a psychotherapist. Nell, thank you so much for your time.

I want to first get your reaction to this interview. What stood out to you?

NELL GIBBON, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: I think that the network did such a beautiful job of really telling his story from beginning to end and educating the population that was watching. I just think they really captured what it's like to be fitting with someone who is going through such a huge transition in their life.

WALKER: I want to bring up something that Zoey Tur, last hour brought up to me, the former helicopter pilot in Los Angeles, who is a transgender woman. She told me that the interview was quite confusing, especially when Jenner said "I am not gay."

Can you help us understand that? I think some people are confused by that statement and what this means for his sexual orientation.

GIBBON: Yes, since the interview last night, that's the question I have been asked the most by everybody around me. How does he not see himself as gay? I think that what I learned in the interview from his story is that he's at the beginning, in some ways, of transitioning publicly and in a way privately as well, even though he's felt this way his whole life. So as much as Diane Sawyer pressed that question, I think, he, by the end of the interview sort of backed away and said, it's the public's need to define it for themselves, but for him personally, he's not quite sure what it means once he does transition.

WALKER: So there has been some criticism, but there's also been a lot of words of support for Bruce Jenner. By him going public in this way, what do you hope will come out of this? Do you think there will be more acceptance and obviously awareness about the transgender community?

GIBBON: Absolutely, I think the point of this story is that we got so intimate with his life and that kind of intimacy when you learn someone else's story you have compassion for what they go through. You have compassion perhaps for an ideology or a lifestyle that maybe you weren't compassionate about before because you didn't understand the human side of the story.

I think they did a beautiful job and he did a great job last night of sharing that part of his soul as he says for people to have more awareness, education and compassion towards the issue for transgender people.

WALKER: It does take a lot of courage to make such an announcement. Really appreciate your perspective, Nell Gibson, psychotherapist. Thank you so much for the conversation.

GIBSON: Thank you.

WALKER: Well, Washington's so-called nerd prom is tonight. Our elected leaders mix and mingle with Hollywood's elite.

Ahed, meet the woman who has the toughest job of the night.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:26:30]

WALKER: We are just a couple hours away from the Annual White House Correspondents' Dinner in Washington.

Our Poppy Harlow will host CNN's coverage start at 7:00 Eastern and she's already spoken to the woman who is handling tonight's entertainment. It's Cecily Strong of "Saturday Night Live."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CECILY STRONG, COMEDIAN: No, people are angry, Seth. Society is angry. And sometimes it's not angry enough. Open your eyes, people. War, hunger, diseases, it's like pick one.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Hosting the White House Correspondents' Dinner is a job some have turned down. It's a job of awkward moments.

UNIDENTIFED MALE: The launch of healthcare.gov was a disaster.

HARLOW: And biting words.

UNIDENTIFED MALE: I believe the government that governs best is the government that governs least and by these standards we have set up a fabulous government in Iraq.

HARLOW (on camera): You have said some people encouraged you not to do this. Why?

STRONG: I think, no offense, it's sort of known as a tough room. When it was made public, a lot of people were very nice, like congratulations, and I think I would just go, uh-huh, thank you.

BARACK OBAMA, U.S. PRESIDENT: Let's face the facts, you'll miss me when I'm gone. It will be harder to convince the American people that Hillary was born in Kenya.

HARLOW: (INAUDIBLE) any of the president's jokes.

STRONG: He doesn't get any of my jokes. I'm sure he's fine. I need the help. He can write my jokes.

HARLOW (voice-over): The story of how she got here is remarkable.

(on camera): Do you pinch yourself?

STRONG: Constantly. "SNL" especially was such a dream job.

HARLOW (voice-over): Just three years ago Strong was touring with the Second City Comedy Troupe and OK, she says with being poor forever. Then at a 2012 Comedy showcase in her native Chicago, she caught the eye of "SNL" creator Lorne Michaels.

(on camera): It's been three years now?

STRONG: Yes.

HARLOW: What was the moment like when it actually sunk in?

STRONG: I think it's still sinking in. At the 40th, that was another moment for all of us on the current cast. We were all crying and kind of holding each other good night just like I can't believe if I look to my left or my right, there's just these true heroes and legends. To get to be on a stage with them is just super overwhelming.

HARLOW (voice-over): Boundaries have been tested.

UNIDENTIFED MALE: I hope the country fails. I hope his kidney fails, how about that? Need some waterboarding, that's what he needs.

HARLOW (on camera): The question is how far will Cecily Strong go?

STRONG: You know, I don't think I'm ever been known as a real envelope pusher necessarily jokes wise. I would hope not to - I don't want to be mean. I would rather be funny, and of course, I'll have like a couple pointed remarks, but hopefully it's all funny.

I would hope it's funny. It's funny to me.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:33:22] WALKER: This is the scene in Baltimore at this hour as protesters vowing to shut down the city in the wake of Freddie Gray's in-custody death. Protesters are marching through the city and calling for the arrests of any officers who played a role in Freddie Gray's death. And our reporter there on the ground, Miguel Marquez, about 25 minutes ago telling us that the protests have been largely peaceful.

Well, even in death, Freddie Gray is, in fact, a statistic. An article in "The New York Times" points out that more than one of every six black men who today should be between 25 and 54 years old have disappeared from daily life. They're either behind bars or they died too soon.

Now, according to the analysis of the 2010 census, the so-called missing men total 1.5 million nationwide. The disparity is once again being debated after the recent deaths of black men like Freddie Gray.

Joining me now, CNN political commentators Ben Ferguson and Marc Lamont Hill.

Great to see you, gentlemen.

Marc, let's first begin with you.

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good to be here.

WALKER: Who -- I mean, these numbers are astounding, 1.5 million missing black men. Who's to blame for this?

HILL: I mean, who is to blame I think is a good question, but we might even broaden that question and say what is to blame. It's as much about individual choice and responsibility as it is these broader structural problems. Part of what people are missing is because they're caged in prison facilities all around this country, all around this world, in fact, and that happens because of poverty, it happens because of lack of joblessness, lack of access to early literacy, lack of access to quality health care.

[16:35:03] All of these things have been shown statistically to lead to mass incarceration. The problem is we know what works and yet we still don't have the political will to fix it. And then we add the idea of large amounts of death, black people dying every single day, not just at the hands of law enforcement but also at the hands of gang violence, that is a considerable problem we can't e resolve at the level of saying do better, act better, pull your pants up, but also having some structural repair here.

WALKER: Yes, there's absolutely no simple answer to this.

Ben, I want to get your e reaction to this. I mean, we're talking about 1.5 million black men missing because of early death or incarceration. Your thoughts?

BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: One of the biggest issues is we have to realize that 74 percent of all African-American children now are being born into single parent households. And the breakdown of the family is one of the biggest causes for this and one of the biggest tragedies that I think we have to deal with. We also know that among young African-American men the number one reason for death is homicide. So, there's far too much gang violence, too much violence, and too much poverty that has to be dealt with.

But there's no silver bullet for this. I mean , if there's anything, it's got to be that we have to focus on helping these families come together and to have a structure where we have young African-American men that are actually being raised by father who are in the home and a part of their lives, because we know it's so easy for these young men, especially, when the number one you die is homicide at a younger age, it's because there's no one there that's keeping them on the straight and narrow.

So, I think that's a major part of this issue that has to be talked about.

WALKER: Yes, Marc, step in there. I saw you shaking your head.

HILL: Well, I mean, I think that -- I agree, fathers not in the home is something we should talk about. But we have to actually appeal to data and statistics here, and also understand that the relationship between cause and effect, in other words, part of why parents are not in the household is because they're being arrested, they're being overcharged and they're put in prisons for a long period of time.

Mass incarceration -- people keep saying people go to prison because they have no fathers there. Fathers aren't there because of mass incarceration. The data shows that up, the war on drugs, the war on crack in '80s, all of these sort of movements that were designed to clean up America have in fact helped destroy the very thing we say we're trying to repair.

And also, yes, we have to sort of challenge this notion that somehow black fathers aren't taking care of their children.

FERGUSON: But Marc -- but, Marc, it's 74 percent --

(CROSSTALK)

HILL: Black noncustodial -- no, you hold on I wasn't done -- black noncustodial parents have the most involvement with the children of any race in the country. So, black fathers who aren't in the household are more involved.

We also have to get out of this nothing that you can marry your way, it's ultimately a sexist notion that women can marry their way out of poverty.

FERGUSON: No one is saying you can marry your way in.

WALKER: Let me jump in.

Ben, let me let you get the last word here. FERGUSON: Seventy-four percent of all children that are born in this

country, African-Americans, are in a single parent household. That is an epidemic that has to be corrected because we already know the challenges --

HILL: Why?

FERGUSON: -- and we know the majority of those children are being raised by people in poverty, unfortunately, that are struggling and trying to make it, including --

HILL: That's not true.

(CROSSTALK)

FERGUSON: And grandmothers. Statistically in the census --

HILL: That's not true, though.

FERGUSON: -- that's absolutely correct, Marc. Seventy-four percent --

HILL: And then you go deeper in the data, you realize that you control for class, it's poverty that's doing this, not single father. Middle class people without fathers do just fine. It's not about fathers not being there. You can't just look at raw data.

WALKER: OK, guys, we got to get going. But obviously, there's disagreement over the cause and effect relationship when it comes to family.

Ben, Marc, stay with me.

Online, there's one thing that everyone is talking about and that, of course, is Bruce Jenner and his dramatic announcement. What do you make of it? We'll discuss that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:42:16] WALKER: It's the interview that everyone is talking about. Nearly 17 million people tuned in last night to watch former Olympian and reality TV star Bruce Jenner confirm to Diane Sawyer that he is transitioning to a woman.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DIANE SAWYER, ABC NEWS: Are you a woman?

BRUCE JENNER, FORMER OLYMPIAN: I'm me. I'm me. I'm a person. That's -- and this is who I am. I'm not stuck in anybody's body. It's just who I am as a human being. My brain is much more female than it is male. It's hard for people to understand that, but that's what my soul is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALKER: A recent study estimates that roughly 700,000 Americans are transgender, but Jenner is without question the most public and high profile figure so far to come out as transgender.

Let's bring back our commentators, Ben Ferguson, host of "The Ben Ferguson," and Marc Lamont Hill, a professor at Morehouse College.

Ben, let's start with you. Regarding the interview, you tweeted, "Two hours of Bruce Jenner, seriously, LOL."

Let me ask you, did you actually watch the full two-hour interview?

FERGUSON: I did watch it. I just couldn't believe that it was two hours. I was like, couldn't with have done this in 30 to 45 minutes? It seems like it was, let's milk this for all its worth which actually to me seemed a little bit sad. It should have been more about, is this your decision, what are you choosing to do?

It was like it was trying to draw it out in this big expose, which actually I think is a complete opposite of what he wants. He wants it to be something that people aren't looking at in a weird way or aren't talking about in a weird way. He said last night he wants people to just treat it like it's something normal. But when you do two hours on this, it's like a reality TV show, an extension of what he's already known for and I just didn't understand why it went so long.

WALKER: Marc, what do you think? I mean, don't you think this is something Bruce Jenner wanted? Especially if he granted the interview to Diane Sawyer?

HILL: Yes, I'm pretty sure Bruce wanted this. And I'm glad that she did it to be quite honest. I think that the nation needs to come to terms that had has transgender bodies.

Part of what we've done in this country is pretend that transgender people don't exist. That they're not supposed to exist, we deny their legitimacy.

Bruce Jenner is now the most famous transperson in the country and she has an opportunity to be an extraordinary figure. And I hate the fact that she has to do this in public and go all through these developments and changes with such spectacle and scrutiny, but at the same time, I think it may open the door for many Americans to be equally courageous and deal with this with some purpose.

You know, we see LGBT suicide rates very high, particularly among teens. Maybe they will watch this interview and say, you know what, I might be OK.

WALKER: I mean, do you think this is a watershed moment for the transgender community? Especially you, Ben, I mean, what do you think about this creating awareness and possibly acceptance for the transgender community?

[16:45:01] FERGUSON: Well, I think you saw when you saw GLAAD come out with their statement. I mean, they -- the bigger the name, the more that they can normalize this, the better it's going to be for their cause. So from their perspective, I'm sure this was a big night for them because it is going to be a center of a conversation that a lot of people are going to be talking about. The more people that you have that are famous and come out and talk about this, the more normal it will become to others.

So I have no doubt that this was a big victory for them and their movement last night.

WALKER: Marc?

HILL: I agree, but I don't see it as their movement or their cause. I see it as all of our cause. Transgender people like everyone else are in fact people. And the more we see a spotlight on their humanity and their story and their journey, the more all of us can begin to normalize this.

I don't just want GLAAD to normalize this. I don't just want Bruce Jenner and her family to normalize this. I want all of us to normalize this, because the truth is, transpeople are here. They have always been here. They're not going anywhere. And we need to embrace them in order to be as fully human as we can be.

WALKER: All right. Ben, Marc, don't go anywhere. You might want to put on the boxing gloves for this next segment.

Ahead, Hillary Clinton has the Democratic field all to herself but her campaign is off to a rocky start with more than one controversy. And Republicans -- oh, they're not holding back. Should we expect mud- slinging for 18 long months?

But first, the NBA playoffs test every player, but especially one who overcame huge odds to make it on the court. Here's this week's human factor.

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DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Seeing Memphis Grizzlies star Jeff Green in action, it's clear he's a player with heart. But in 2011, his game was interrupted.

JEFF GREEN, MEMPHIS GRIZZLIES PLAYER: I was in a complete shock.

GUPTA: A routine team physical revealed an aortic aneurysm near the left valve of his heart. Jeff who was 25 at that time needed surgery.

GREEN: It was nerve wracking. I couldn't run. I couldn't touch a basketball. I couldn't get stressed out. It was tough.

GUPTA: And rebounding from open heart surgery, that wasn't easy either. Jeff didn't touch a basketball for nearly six months. He lost muscle in the mechanics of this game.

GREEN: It was a slow progression. My body was different. The timing was off. I was fatigued but I wasn't concerned about getting hit. The biggest thing for me which has been shape and being -- I would function out there on the floor.

GUPTA: The experience did give Jeff a greater appreciation for basketball.

GREEN: Now I attack every game as, you know, this could be my last.

GUPTA: It also gave him a greater appreciation for life. He often visits young heart patients providing encouragement and they compare scars.

GREEN: To see me come back from the heart surgery, see me up there playing, and they look up to that. I look forward to that and, you know, they love it so, you know, I'm going to continue to do it.

GUPTA: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

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[16:51:05] WALKER: Coming up tonight at 7:00 p.m. Eastern, the biggest party night in Washington. Hollywood celebs hit the red carpet inside the Beltway at the White House Correspondents' Dinner. All the glitz, glamour and jokes start at 7:00 with Poppy Harlow. Watch it here on CNN.

Let's talk more politics now. And our political analysts Ben Ferguson and Marc Lamont Hill are back with me.

So, Hillary Clinton is already soaking up the spotlight among potential Democratic presidential hopefuls. But she's facing some new headwinds, including questions about money donated to the Clinton Family Foundation by foreign governments, at the same time she served as U.S. secretary of state.

Now, Clinton has not addressed claims in a new book that the donations were designed to influence U.S. policy, but her spokesman called the reports, quote, "utterly baseless".

This is obviously on top of this private e-mail controversy that Hillary had to go through as secretary of state.

Marc, let's start with you. Do you think the allegations are going to haunt Hillary?

HILL: I think everything Hillary Clinton does will haunt her. The burrito bowl she ordered at Chipotle last week will also haunt her next year.

I think that people are look for excuses to bug out, you know, on the Clintons. It's unfortunate.

There are plenty of reasons not to like the Clintons. You know, I wish they would use the legitimate ones instead of trying to manufacture scandals, trying to continue to dredge up Benghazi. It's like a verbal tick for Republicans, and then to try to dredge up the email scandal. Yes, the email scandal look bad, she made some bad choices. And I think she should be critiqued for that.

I think we should ask questions about the Clinton Foundation. I think those are reasonable questions.

But the Clintons are careful. I don't think that they did anything wrong, not because I believe in their character, but they want to be president so bad they wouldn't do anything so silly.

WALKER: Ben, do you think Hillary Clinton is going to survive this?

FERGUSON: I think the Clintons are very careful, as Marc just said, careful to cover their tracks, careful to make sure e-mails come to their home, careful to make share they delete and swipe the entire hard drive so no one will see the e-mails, and very careful to make sure that they had millions of dollars -- tens of millions of dollars coming into the Clinton Foundation from foreign governments while she was at the State Department and had influence.

Her campaign just this week, they absolutely misled every voter in this country by claiming that she had nothing to do with the principals in Russia that had given money to the foundation when they were dealing with this uranium deal. Well, we know now for a fact she did have contact with those people. Not only did she have contact with them, they came to her house.

So, this isn't some, you know, drawn up random scandal or trying to connect dots that aren't there. When you're lying about meetings in your own home to the American people, this is a big deal. And the voters are going to have to look at her and go, do we really trust them and how is this much money coming in from this many countries that are actually standing for things that are completely against what she claims she stands for?

Look at how many governments gave money to Hillary Clinton's foundation or his husband that have no rights for women at all, and she claims she's the candidate for women's rights. I think women will have a problem with that too.

WALKER: But don't all candidates --

HILL: Oh, nothing worries my heart more --

WALKER: You know, don't all candidates and politicians take money whether it be from foreign governments or domestic people --

FERGUSON: Not like this. Yes, not like this.

WALKER: -- for campaign contributions?

Marc, take it away.

HILL: Yes, they do, Republicans take money from everybody, and it's amazing. Nothing worries my heart more than when Republicans is paying concern for women's rights and women's bodies and women's freedoms except for when it comes to actual domestic policy here in the United States. It's amazing.

Look, again, there are plenty of reasons to critique the Clintons. I think all politicians deserve scrutiny. Hillary Clinton is not perfect. Examine her, scrutinize her, do the same thing on the right.

But let's not take a moral high ground here on the right. I think what they may end up doing if they're not careful is punch themselves out before they even get to a primary much less a general election. That's often what happens. No, I'm serious, Ben. That's often what happens.

[16:55:00] They'll spend all their time beating up on the Clintons who ultimately are going to be in the general election, and they may not be able to articulate their own policy. And they maybe more outrage by Hillary Clinton than the American public. The American public didn't care about e e-mails as nearly as much as the Republicans did, whether they're right or wrong, and even to the point.

WALKER: Ben, you have the last word.

FERGUSON: I think a lot of people care when you are in a position of power as secretary of state and you have tens of millions of dollars coming in from governments that are getting deals that they need with the United States government that you're involved in. That matters to taxpayers.

And it also matters that she was in that position and we don't know what the e-mails say about these conversations. It's called being transparent. And the people want to know that the person in the White House is going to be transparent. And she has not been. It's going to be a big issue for her.

WALKER: Yes, transparency --

HILL: You're just suspicious, Ben.

WALKER: Well, I think a lot of people are suspicious about the political system altogether, period. But that's just me being pessimistic about it all.

Ben Ferguson, Marc Lamont Hill, great having you both. Thanks for that lovely conversation.

FERGUSON: Thanks.

HILL: Pleasure.

WALKER: And ahead, another hour of the CNN NEWSROOM. We'll go live to Nepal, a nation reeling from a devastating earthquake. You'll hear are a woman caught in the middle of all the chaos. That's after the break.

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