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Protests Intensify Over Freddie Gray's Death; Five Officers Give Statements in Freddie Gray Death; Saudi Airstrikes Pound Houthi Rebels; How Will Europe Respond to Migrant Crisis? Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired April 23, 2015 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Baltimore has had a history of having police brutality.

[05:58:43] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In this type of an incident, you do not need probable cause to arrest. You just need a reasonable suspicion.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The family has no confidence that the police can actually investigate the police.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Saudi airstrikes have resumed in Yemen.

ABDEL AL-JUBEIR, SAUDI ARABIAN AMBASSADOR TO U.S.: The Houthis should be under no illusion that we will continue to use force.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Iranian warships heading towards American navy destroyers.

BOB BAER, CNN INTELLIGENCE AND SECURITY ANALYST: We've sent ships to that part of the world to prevent a war between Saudi Arabia and Iran.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tensions flaring in the 2016 race to the White House.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Benghazi thing is going to be very difficult for her to dig out of that hole.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: Senator Paul is the worst possible candidate.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota and Michaela Pereira.

CHRIS CUOMO, CO-HOST: Welcome to your NEW DAY. It's Thursday, April 23, 6 a.m. in the east. Protests are intensifying in Baltimore. As time goes on, answers do not come. "What happened to Freddie Gray?" has become a rallying cry. Angry crowds throw bottles. Authorities keep promising transparency. The question is when. ALISYN CAMEROTA, CO-HOST: And this press conference with the

attorney for the police union only fueled the fire. He revealed that five of the six officers involved in Freddie Gray's arrest gave statements to investigators 11 days ago, so why do we still not know what happened?

Let's begin our team coverage with CNN's Suzanne Malveaux in Baltimore.

Suzanne, what's the latest?

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT/ANCHOR: Good morning, Alisyn.

As you know, these protests, they have grown in intensity, but we also expect they're going to grow in size today. Outside of city hall, we are expecting thousands of people to show up here this afternoon around 3 p.m. or so. The family pastor, James Ryan, is going to be here, as well as the mother, the stepfather of Freddie Gray. Lots and lots of people here.

We also expect there are going to be several other protests and rallies throughout the city.

Now, all of this in conjunction with the one question that folks are asking: Why don't they have more information about what happened to Freddie Gray?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX (voice-over): Protests continuing into the night in Baltimore. After another tense standoff with police.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Watch yourself. I got you.

MALVEAUX: Hundreds of protesters demanding answers in the death of Freddie Gray.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hands up!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don't shoot!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't shoot!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don't shoot!

MALVEAUX: People frustrated, filling the streets, blocking traffic.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hands up!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don't shoot!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't shoot!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don't shoot! MALVEAUX: Some even laying down on the middle of the

intersections. This as new video shows Gray minutes after his initial arrest, the last time he was seen publicly and alive. The video shows Gray not moving, lying half-in/half-out of the police van. This is when police say they shackled his ankles.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He wasn't responding. He was down; his feet was like this. And they picked him up and threw him up in the paddy wagon.

MALVEAUX: What exactly happened to the 25-year-old when he was placed back in that van remains a mystery.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Something happened in that van. We just don't know what.

MALVEAUX: An attorney for the Baltimore City Police Union tried to answer questions Tuesday, despite calls from protesters demanding the arrest of the six officers involved. The Fraternal Order of Police defending the officer's actions.

MICHAEL DAVEY, FRATERNAL ORDER OF POLICE ATTORNEY: In this type of an incident you do not need probable cause to arrest. You just need a reasonable suspicion to make the stop. And that's what they had in this case.

MALVEAUX: More than four days after Gray died from a nearly severed spine, CNN has been told the body will be released from state custody soon. And the family wants an independent autopsy, his relatives hoping for a second opinion on the cause of death.

MARY KOCH, FREDDIE GRAY FAMILY ATTORNEY: The most that you can say about Freddie Gray's family is that they are totally devastated. They tried to process the loss of their son, their brother, their friend.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX: And the mayor of Baltimore, Stephanie Rawlings-Blake, has reached out to the Gray family, wanting to meet with them to talk with them. Well, we have learned that they declined that offer, saying that now is not the appropriate time. What they are focused on is making those arrangements to bury their son -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: That's understandable. Suzanne, thank you for that update.

Well, with four criminal investigations underway, are we any closer to finding out what happened inside that police van following Freddie Gray's arrest? CNN's Evan Perez has that part of the story.

Good morning, Evan.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn.

The Baltimore Police Union is firmly backing the six police officers involved in the arrest of Freddie Gray. Union officials say that five of the six officers have now provided statements to investigators. The officers, now suspended with pay, committed no crime, they say.

Gray died after suffering a spinal cord injury the police cannot explain. Baltimore Police Commissioner Anthony Batts says another prisoner in the police transport van told investigators that nothing unusual happened on the way to jail.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COMMISSIONER ANTHONY BATTS, BALTIMORE POLICE: The second prisoner that was picked up is that he didn't see any harm done to Freddie at all. What he has said is that he heard Freddie thrashing about. The driver didn't drive erratically.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREZ: The Justice Department civil rights investigators and the FBI are now gathering evidence for their own investigation. The federal probe would have to prove the officers intended to deny Gray his civil rights. And, Chris, that's always a tough case to make, as we saw in the shooting of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri, last year.

CUOMO: Right. And as we've learned too many times, hearing about a federal investigation can often provide false hope. Let's see what happens in this situation. Thank you for the new reporting.

Now we're going to have more on the latest in this investigation in just a few moments, but here is everything else that matters this morning.

We're going to start with Michael Brown's family expected to file a wrongful death suit today against the city of Ferguson. A grand jury did not charge Officer Darren Wilson for shooting and killing the unarmed Brown, leading to violent protest, as you'll remember. The civil lawsuit, however, has a lower standard for finding wrongdoing. A federal report later found the Ferguson Police Department did unfairly target African-Americans.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Saudi-led forces are pounding southern Yemen with airstrikes targeting Houthi rebels. The Houthis, who recently vowed not to surrender, are now calling for peace talks. CNN's Becky Anderson is live for us in Abu Dhabi with the very latest -- Becky.

[06:05:05] BECKY ANDERSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A very good morning to you.

The Saudis insist that this action is consistent with the end of the month-long Operation Decisive Storm, phase one as it were, Michaela. And Operation Renewal of Hope, phase two, they say, which is part political, part military. These airstrikes are to protect civilians from militia, while behind the scenes, all willing stake holders work on the implementation of this U.N. Resolution 2216. Here's how the Saudi ambassador to Washington explained things

Wednesday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AL-JUBEIR: The Houthis should be under no illusion that we will continue to use force in order to stop them from taking Yemen over by aggressive action.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: But it's not just in the air or on the ground that things are, let's say, getting nuanced. It is in the waters off what is the Arab world's poorest country that things are complicated.

Witness what could be the impending showdown between the U.S. warships entering the Gulf of Aden, led by the U.S. aircraft carrier Theodore Roosevelt, and an approaching flotilla of Iranian cargo and military ships. U.S. officials telling us the mission is to monitor those Iranian cargo vessels that could deliver arms to Houthi rebels.

But whether the U.S. Navy will actually move to block those Iranian ships from entering Yemeni waters is undecided at present, or at least nobody is talking about it. So that remains to be seen. Alisyn, a very complicated situation.

CAMEROTA: Yes, complicated and tense. Becky, thanks so much for explaining that.

Well, a humanitarian crisis slowly overwhelming Italy. Thousands of desperate migrants coming ashore. They're fleeing Africa and the Middle East. European leaders holding another emergency meeting today. Will they send those refugees back?

CNN's senior international correspondent, Nick Paton Walsh, is standing by live at a migrant detention center in Libya -- Nick.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Alisyn, here behind me, you can see the scale of the problem that Europe and here, Libya to the west of its capital, Tripoli, is facing.

There are just 350 migrants here, but they are predominantly from Africa, a third of them, in fact, from heavily authoritarian Eritrea.

Now, this is right next to a beach. And a lot of the people here in what used to be a customs warehouse are, in fact, taken from that beach, potentially intercepted by Libyan authorities here and kept here for a number of weeks or months. The center itself has been here for a matter of years.

You can't really call them the lucky ones, because I think if you look at the numbers so far this year, about 8 to 10 percent of those who have tried to make the crossing have, in fact, lost their lives. But the vast majority, it seems, have landed safe on Europe's shores.

These people behind me, their fate deeply uncertain. They obviously don't want to go back where it was they initially fled. They obviously consider the risk of crossing into Europe to be enough to try and take, but this is the scale of the challenge here. This massive coastal country simply cannot patrol its own waters. And there are hundreds of thousands of people hoping to make that dangerous journey -- Chris.

CUOMO: Those conditions for weeks to months, you say. Terrible. Nick, thank you for the reporting.

So the Senate is finally set to vote on Loretta Lynch's nomination for attorney general after getting a contentious Bill to combat human trafficking out of the way. Lynch's confirmation was stalled for months. Adding to the frustration, Lynch is praised by many on both sides of the aisle and would become the first black woman to lead the Justice Department.

PEREIRA: It is sentencing day today for former CIA director David Petraeus. The former four-star general is accused of sharing government secrets with his biographer-turned-girlfriend Paula Broadwell. As part of a plea agreement, Petraeus is expected to plead guilty to one federal charge of mishandling classified information. In return, prosecutors will recommend that he serve two years' probation and pay a $40,000 fine.

CAMEROTA: The concussion settlement between the NFL and thousands of retired players getting final approval from a federal judge. It allows for payments of as much as $5 million for players with the most severe neurological conditions. Under the settlement, the NFL makes no admission of guilt, and it removes any limit to what the league could have to pay out for retired players -- Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Alisyn. Four investigations, 11 days, and still too many questions in Baltimore. So right now, what do we know and why don't we know more? Two guests want to have those same questions asked. Tessa Hill-Aston, president of the Baltimore chapter of NAACP, and Keith Haynes. He's a Maryland House delegate, representing Baltimore. Thank you to both of you.

I want to play you the most recent sound from the attorney representing the police union. And then we'll discuss what it means.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVEY: He simply didn't want to walk. And that is not unusual with individuals who don't want to be arrested. They don't cooperate, and they don't want to walk.

I think you're using the words "yelling as if in pain" as a speculation. It could have also been yelling to bring the crowd to make attention to his arrest.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[06:10:17] CUOMO: All right. That's going to be the police line as for now. Ms. Aston, what do you make of that suggestion that this was not about Mr. Gray being injured, this was about him not wanting to be arrested and playing to the crowd?

TESSA HILL-ASTON, PRESIDENT, BALTIMORE NAACP: Well, I think most people don't want to be arrested in that situation. As far as we can tell, we don't know actually what he did, other than they say the police made eye contact with him and he ran. We haven't heard anything that he had drugs on him or that he was purchasing drugs.

So I don't think it takes six officers to take someone that small and then he has bodily injuries. So, yes, everybody would make a scene, because they want attention brought to the fact that they might get hurt. And they want someone to see that that's happening.

CUOMO: What do you make of the suggestion that the police didn't need probable cause here? They only needed reasonable suspicion, because Freddie Gray is known to be in the drug game. He's got some 20 cases, many still active, and that that was the right basis for a stop?

HILL-ASTON: Well, I don't see it that way. I think when officers in a certain neighborhood, and if they're in the neighborhood all the time, there's always opportunities to get that person at another time. To run and chase someone and put themselves at risk and something like this happens, it puts everybody in a bad situation.

Now we have someone deceased and something that didn't have to happen. Because the police always has an opportunity to get that person, especially when they know them.

Mr. Haynes, we keep hearing that, under Maryland law, you have ten days as a police officer to secure counsel, and until then you cannot be interrogated. But then we learned on April 12 you had five of the six officers involved give out statements. Why haven't we heard what's in those statements?

KEITH HAYNES, MARYLAND HOUSE DELEGATE REPRESENTING BALTIMORE: Well, what you're referring to is the status of the law enforcement officers Bill of rights, where they do have ten days...

CUOMO: Right.

HAYNES: ... to secure council, legal counsel, before making a statement. Any statements that are made by those individuals cannot be used, because even though they do have the Law Enforcement Officer Bill of Rights, they still have the Constitution for protections of the Fifth Amendment. So those statements can be made, but they cannot be used.

CUOMO: So they can make a statement on the record, but nobody can use it for anything. That's part of the frustration. Let's put up the timeline here.

HAYNES: It cannot -- it cannot be used for prosecutorial purposes.

CUOMO: Understood. But I'm not talking about a prosecution. I'm talking about the public, and I'm talking about giving some confidence in some aspect of this dynamic by the police. The police keep saying, "Don't jump to conclusions, don't become a lynch mob," but what people want is information about it. And they've had it for 11 days.

This timeline, I want to get back to, though, Ms. Aston, because really, it comes down to what happened in the van? There's going to be a suspicion that what happened in the van was an extension of what happened before the van. But what do you believe needs to be asked, Ms. Aston?

HILL-ASTON: Well, what needs to be asked is what happened before the van or in the van? Because some people are saying -- some witnesses in the community are saying that they saw one officer put their knee in his back. And then some people are saying that they saw him being drug in a rough way in a manner into the van. And he was limp at that time. So the injury could have come before, and then some more injury could have come after he got in the van. And based on the description of the inside of the van he could have been rocked around.

And talking to other people who've been in the van, you know, you can get rocked around pretty good if you're not tied or concealed in a certain kind of way in the van in the metal containers that they have them in.

CUOMO: Forty-two minutes between when he was picked up and when they finally called for help. Mr. Haynes, the suggestion is that's too long. That's too long. What's your take on it?

HAYNES: Well, I think that we look at that -- the instance that he actually asked or requested medical attention. He indicated that he was an asthmatic, that he was injured, required medical assistance. At that point or that juncture, it should have been given to him. A call should have went out to 911 or through the radio system to find immediate medical attention.

CUOMO: Is it up to the discretion of the officer? Or is it automatic, Mr. Haynes? Our understanding is it's somewhat discretionary by the officer. It's not an automatic that, if somebody asks, like they do invoking counsel, if they invoke that they need medical help it's not as automatic. Is that true?

HAYNES: Right. Well, I think it is somewhat discretionary. It is not a legal right. But it is discretionary. But the fact of the matter is, is that it's a simple call. It's a call for medical assistance.

[06:15:02] And when you have a situation where when -- if you look at one of the videotapes that has been circulating from this incident, clearly when he was placed in custody and placed in the van, that he had something going on with him physically that would not allow him to walk.

CUOMO: Right.

HAYNES: That should have given rise to some consideration that a simple call, if he requested additional medical attention, should have been made. The one thing we do know...

CUOMO: That union lawyer though, Mr. Haynes, the union lawyer suggests maybe he was faking it. Right? That's what caused the outrage yesterday. And what this takes us to is the same point that I want to end on here, Delegate, which is...

HAYNES: Sure.

CUOMO: ... you have four investigations going on. And yet this situation seems plagued by a lack of information early and often coming from the investigators. And it raises the question of whether or not the police should be involved in investigating themselves. What do you think about that?

HAYNES: Well, I can tell you that I think you sort of hit it right on the head here with four investigations. There are four investigations going on. The Justice Department has stepped in, as well. So I think we have to let this run its course as far as whether investigations and the outcome of those investigations and what facts and what conclusions it yields at this point.

This has been a concern in our past legislative session, where we had bills that were introduced for an independent body to come in and investigate under certain circumstances, as we're experiencing here in this particular case.

But we do have four concurrent investigations. So it's not solely the police department's investigation at this point.

CUOMO: Understood. Tessa Hill-Aston and Delegate Haynes, thank you very much for taking us up on the latest in the concerns going on.

HAYNES: Thank you.

CUOMO: Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, Chris. Saudi airstrikes resume over Yemen and new concerns about Iran arming Houthi rebels. We will be talking with former ambassador Bill Richardson next.

PEREIRA: Also, a new poll shows which of the GOP presidential candidates is emerging from the pack. We're going to tell you who's resonating with voters this early on.

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[06:20:55] CAMEROTA: Saudi Arabia launching more airstrikes this morning against Houthi rebels in Yemen as a fleet of Iranian vessels, including warships, heads closer to nine U.S. ships off Yemen's coast.

Let's bring in former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations and former New Mexico governor, Bill Richardson. Great to have you on set here with us.

BILL RICHARDSON, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: Thank you. Thank you. Great to be here. CAMEROTA: Can you help us understand what's happening with Saudi

Arabia's plan with Yemen? They announced yesterday they had stopped airstrikes. Basically, they said mission accomplished. "We've accomplished our objectives," they said. Today more airstrikes, and it sure doesn't seem like their objectives were accomplished. What's going on?

RICHARDSON: Well, what's going on is the international community, the U.S., we're pressuring the Saudis to push for U.N.-led peace talks. And also, some of these bombings have hit humanitarian targets: a lot of civilians, food emergency areas. So the objective is to try to cool things down so that the Houthis and the Saudis engage in peace talks through the U.N.

The problem is what's Iran doing. Iran may be sending ships with arms for the Houthis. And if we're trying to get the Iranians to reach a deal with us, I think they've got to start acting more responsibly and cool it and find ways to get these peace talks going.

PEREIRA: You know, it's interesting you talk about the involvement of Iran and the fact that it's hard to understand what their motivation is, but one could also say that our messaging to Iran, whether it's with the ships off the shore of Yemen or with what's going on with nuclear negotiations, the messaging there isn't particularly clear either.

RICHARDSON: Well, that's right. But I think this deal with Iran on nuclear initiatives, I think, is good. But the Iranians have to recognize that their behavior has to improve. They should release that American Marine, that American journalist; stop messing with Hamas and Hezbollah; stop threatening Israel.

CAMEROTA: And all of that should have been part of the deal?

RICHARDSON: Yes, I think so. I think we should have -- but maybe before June 30 when the deal is completed, maybe the Iranians, the foreign minister, made some positive statements. Maybe they'll move in the right direction.

CUOMO: The administration doesn't agree with you, though, right, Governor?

RICHARDSON: No, not at all.

CUOMO: I mean, they wanted the talks. And the P5+1 say they want the talks just to be about nukes, because if you muddy the waters you won't get anything done; and the paramount point is nukes.

And to Mick's point, is it about talk or is it about tactics? It looks like the U.S. is getting outmaneuvered here again. Because the Houthis are a legitimate entity in Yemen, as you know. They've come to power before, and it looks on the ground there now like the U.S. took the wrong side of it again. And Iran, ironically, is on the right side.

RICHARDSON: Well, no. I think we have to back the Saudis. They're a major ally.

CUOMO: Why? Just because they're a major ally?

RICHARDSON: Because of -- because of energy ties. We have military bases there. They're a source of stability along with Israel.

I think what you do in foreign policy is like domestic politics. You stick to your domestic base. Our allies are Israel, Saudi Arabia, especially in very turbulent times.

But if I'm Iran and I want to get an agreement past the U.S. Congress, on my own I'm going to try to act a little more responsibly. If they really want this deal with the United States on nuclear initiatives, because it's going to get sanctions off them, I would behave more responsibly. And hopefully, they'll do it.

But you're right: the administration wanted to separate these issues. I think that they should have gotten more.

CAMEROTA: You touched on this, there's a humanitarian crisis now in Yemen.

PEREIRA: Can't be overlooked.

CAMEROTA: Hundreds of thousands of people...

RICHARDSON: Right.

CAMEROTA: ... are trying to flee. Are peace talks a possibility?

RICHARDSON: Yes. I think they're possible. At the U.N. there was a special envoy there right now, trying to get a new peace process. It's going to involve not just the Saudis and the Houthis, but it's going to involve some of the other players in the region.

You know, the Saudis got nine Gulf countries, nine Middle East countries to back them. The U.S. is going to have to be supportive. Russia, China, you've got to get things through Russia and China and the Security Council. That's always tough. But I think the U.N. is the best bet here.

CUOMO: But the U.N., why would the party be Saudis, though? Because on the ground in Yemen, they're saying, "You don't pay the bills, Saudis. You're just worried about your border. And the U.S. picked you as an ally, but you fund a lot of terrorism."

And then Iran comes in. They help the Houthis. It looks like they're helping the ground-level change there. Just like they're doing in Iraq right now, helping fight against the Sunnis there. Looks like they're helping the little guy, and the U.S. is kind of standing back. Doesn't look good.

[06:25:17] RICHARDSON: Well, what the Saudis want is the old president to come back, because they have a lot of interest there. So I guess the best measure for everybody is stability to cool things down, get both sides talking. I think that president is not going to come back.

But I think the good thing here is that the Saudis -- I mean, we can't be the world policemen in the region. The Saudis are putting troops; they're putting military hardware; they're putting regional efforts. I think on the whole, that's good. But you're right, the humanitarian costs, they're hitting civilians. I mean, they've never bombed anyone in a long time. So...

PEREIRA: The irony is just not lost on you, right? I mean, you think about the fact that the very reason they want stability in the area, aside from the interests -- we understand there's money involved -- but it's to stabilize the nation and stabilize life for the people in that area. Yet the people are the ones that are being forced to flee. They're dying. They're being cut off from food supplies. Their lives are being made worse.

RICHARDSON: Right.

PEREIRA: And then you speak of, you know, the Iranian journal -- or the Iranian-American journalist, you talk about that Marine, is anything further being done to help their cause?

RICHARDSON: Well, I think publicly there has to be a stronger campaign to get those two out. This would be an easy thing for Iran to do. These are trump charges against the Marine, against...

PEREIRA: They're being held like pawns, though, are they not?

RICHARDSON: Right. They're pawns, but Iran should realize, "Hey, do you want the U.S. Congress to put more sanctions and to kill this deal that the president has negotiated?" I don't think Iran does that. Because they want sanctions off. It is hurting them: food, gasoline is crippled in Iraq.

CUOMO: They built a lot of centrifuges on their sanctions, though. They're getting money from somewhere.

RICHARDSON: That's right. That's right. They're getting money from Pakistan, North Korea; Russia's helping them. There's no question.

My point is that I think Iran has to behave in a manner that shows that they're members of the international community. Cool it with the Houthis. Don't bring arms there. Get out of Hamas and Hezbollah in some way. Say that they're not going to denounce and try to destroy Israel. Get this American Marine out. Let the journalist out.

June 30 is the deadline for this deal to happen or not. I think the administration did a good job in negotiating the nuclear side, but bring this other stuff in like -- so that there's some kind of stability in Yemen, so all these people stop getting killed.

CAMEROTA: Yes. Great goals. We'll see if they work on those. Bill Richardson, great to have you here.

CUOMO: Thanks, Governor.

RICHARDSON: Thank you.

PEREIRA: All right. Looking at things around the world, we want to turn back to home here. New protests in Baltimore over the death of Freddie Gray in police custody. Still no explanation about that fatal spine injury. Why does the public know so little nearly two weeks after his arrest?

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