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U.S. Terrorist & Hostages Killed; Senate Confirms Lynch; Baltimore Protests. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired April 23, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[14:00:04] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Jim Sciutto, live in Washington for CNN's special coverage of breaking news.

Two hostages, including an American, accidently killed along with two American al Qaeda operatives by U.S. drone strikes.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: We've got that covered. And, good afternoon, I'm Brooke Baldwin, live here in Baltimore, city hall behind me, where very shortly we're anticipating in the thousands, that's what we're hearing, thousands of protesters expected to rally over the death of 25-year-old Freddie Gray who died in police custody. You will see it live.

But first, Jim Sciutto, back to you in Washington.

SCIUTTO: Great to be alongside Brooke in Baltimore on that other breaking story we're following.

But we're getting a lot more into CNN about this deadly mistake that took the lives of two innocent men. President Obama apologizing, taking full responsibility for this U.S. counterterrorism mission gone wrong that was meant to take out senior al Qaeda figures, but went horribly wrong and ended in the deaths of an American and an Italian hostage.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It is a cruel and bitter truth that in the fog of war generally, and our fight against terrorists specifically, mistakes, sometimes deadly mistakes, can occur. As president and as commander in chief, I take full responsibility for all our counterterrorism operations, including the one that inadvertently took the lives of Warren and Giovanni.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Warren Weinstein was a government contractor, a grandfather, and a husband. Al Qaeda grabbed him in 2011. And the last proof of life video we saw was more than a year ago. He was held with an Italian national, Giovanni Lo Porto. Both were dedicated to helping the people of Pakistan.

But President Obama said little about the two others killed in those counterterrorism missions, other Americans. But these U.S. citizens were part of al Qaeda, sworn and loyal members of the terrorist group. One of them, an influential mouthpiece for the militants. But, incredibly, their deaths were also an unintended consequence, killed in two separate terror strikes that were not targeting them.

In his 39-minute video, American-born al Qaeda spokesman Adam Gadahn is calling for attacks on U.S. ambassadors around the world. When he was killed in this U.S. drone strike, the bounty on his head was $1 million. But how significant a role did he play in the al Qaeda network? To tell us more about this American terrorist, I'm joined now by Nic Robertson, CNN's senior international correspondent.

Nic, great to have you on.

I just want to ask you first about Warren Weinstein, kidnapped in 2011, somewhat out of the consciousness during that time in the U.S. Was that intentional to some degree, that you keep cases like this, hostages like this out of the news to allow for the possibility of a negotiation to get them out?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You do, and that's typical and we understand that that was what was happening in this case. Although his family - I was in communication with them about just under a couple of years ago and at that time they were frustrated. There had been a proof of life video some months earlier, but they really felt that, you know, the administration wasn't doing enough, although they'd been having a lot of help before and they were worried that Dr. Weinstein was going to be forgotten. And with the - with the - all the talk at that stage about the possible release of Bowe Bergdahl, they were - there was a real concern in their family that Warren was going to get lost in that picture.

So it is typical that you do try to keep it out of the news while you do negotiate or talk at least, you know. Negotiates the wrong word certainly in this context. You know, no one negotiates with terrorists. But you do try to talk to make sure you can have proof of life communication.

My understanding was the family had even been put in communication, direct communication with him at a number of points previous to when I had been talking to them. But that had been cut off. And that had also been leading to their growing concern.

So the trajectory of how his case and situation was being handled does seem typical. But the frustrations are felt by every family in this situation where they would go to the ends of the earth to do what they can. Governments are somewhat more restricted, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yes, we heard similar frustration from James Foley's family, for instance, after he was killed by ISIS in Syria.

Let's talk about Adam Gadahn, if we can. Truly an incredible story. An American born in California to a Jewish family becomes an extremely prominent and recognizable face for al Qaeda. How did he make that transition? How did he end up this mouthpiece? [14:05:08] ROBERTSON: Well, he got in on the ground floor with al

Qaeda before, really, they'd struck the world's consciousness with the attack in 2001. He converted to Islam in 1995, went off to Pakistan in 1998, goes immediately to al Qaeda camps inside Afghanistan. So he already at that stage is sort of in the organization, building a level of trust, and then as al Qaeda sort of goes on the PR offensive, you know, following that after the 2001 attacks, he becomes a very important person for them because he speaks English, because he can appeal to that part of the world that al Qaeda's trying to send its message to.

And this was a message that went from his most recent video, August 2013, praising the attack on the U.S. consulate in Benghazi the year before. He was - he had a video in 2011. He had videos where he was telling Americans to go out and buy weapons at a gun fests to go and attack people. He praised the Ft. Hood shooter, Major Hasan Nadal, for what he had done. Praised him and said he should be a role model for other Muslims in the United States.

So this was a man who was agitating and trying to provoke as much as he could attacks. But because al Qaeda leaders were also being killed and because he kind of got in on ground floor, he was rising up through their ranks. He had, you know, disappeared, perhaps, from some of the attention he'd had maybe five or six years ago, but still an important figure for them.

Jim.

SCIUTTO: No question. On any other day, Adam Gadahn's death by itself would be a major story but, of course, it comes on today when there's this spectacular mistake, killing this American and this Italian hostage.

Nic Robertson, great to have you on.

Certainly a lot more to talk about. So I want to bring in Jason Beardsley. He's a special operations advisor for Concerned Veterans for America. Also Peter Bergen, he's CNN national security analyst.

Peter, if I could begin with you. We're hearing the family of Warren Weinstein expressing frustration today that the U.S. administration, as well as the Pakistani government, they single them out, did not do enough to win their husband's, their father's release. You've written a piece now for cnn.com where you get into this and make the case that they're right, that no serious effort was made to negotiate for his release. What's behind that?

PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, I think for the U.S. government, you know, the fact that he was being held by al Qaeda made it very problematic. You know, the U.S. government position, as you know, is not to make concessions to terrorist groups, and al Qaeda, you know, in particular.

I've talked to multiple Pakistani officials about their kind of - the circumstances of all this. They said they did make an effort to go house to house in north Waziristan, where Warren Weinstein was believed to be held and where he was almost certainly killed in the drone strike in January. They said those came to no - they didn't, you know, have any result.

They put feelers out to the Haqqani network. And I think this is a very important point, Jim, because the Haqqani network is now holding another American citizen, Katelyn Coleman (ph), and her husband, Joshua Boyal (ph), who is Canadian. Katelyn Coleman has probably had a kid in captivity, whose name we don't know. And I think we should draw some lessons from this, which is, we really need to work with the Pakistani government, with whom we have some leverage, to get Katelyn Coleman released. And that's going to - you know, we're going to have to get in the situation where concessions are going to have to be made by somebody.

We've had the example of an American journalist who was released by an al Qaeda affiliate in Syria, Peter Theo Curtis. And that happened because the Qatari government intervened. And certainly it wasn't - you know, al Qaeda didn't suddenly have a good day and just say we're going to, you know, release this guy. You know, in any negotiation you're going to have to make some form of concession. And the U.S. government should work with the Pakistani government to authorize some kind of deal that will allow other Americans and Canadians still being held in the area where Warren Weinstein was killed, otherwise you're just condemning them to certain death.

SCIUTTO: Yes, and in the last few months we've seen all the options. When you have an American held hostage abroad by a terrorist group, we've seen the danger with all of them. Here you have the possibility of collateral damage. You strike somewhere, you had no idea they were there, you kill an American and an Italian.

We had a rescue effort in Yemen that killed a South African hostage. Well, the assault happened. He was killed by his hostage takers while that happened. You had a failed attempt for James Foley and other hostages in Syria. It is difficult to get right.

Jason, today the president took full responsibility for this, even though he didn't order this particular strike. He apologized for it. How much of an intelligence failure is this, or are these circumstances - is there an element here that these circumstances of hostage taking are so difficult that mistakes happen when you're attempting to get these people free?

[14:09:50] JASON BEARDSLEY, SPECIAL OPERATIONS ADVISOR, CONCERNED VETERANS FOR AMERICA: That's a great question. First of all, thanks for having me on. And, secondly, we want - our hearts go out to the grieving family of the Weinsteins right now. We share in their grief. These are very difficult operations. Every administration is faced with a complexity when we're facing hostage situations. Peter Bergen mentions this is in the - in the tribal region of the Waziristan and northern Pakistan. These are difficult regions for the American intelligence community and military community to get fidelity on the targets.

But what we see is when we don't have a good confidence, when we don't have a high amount of fidelity of what is happening on the ground, this remote capability to monitor these things leads us into a place where our consequences are generally high. Monitoring this compound and knowing that the compound is an al Qaeda compound is one thing. But having the confidence that this target that we're about to strike is going to result in an affect that is, first and foremost, puts the U.S. interests ahead of other interests is very important. We work very hard with our allies. We need to continue to emphasize what it means to have, one, human intelligence on the ground, two, great relations with our partners like Pakistan. So it requires a lot of work.

SCIUTTO: Well, Peter, you know, the U.S. is about to pull out of Afghanistan. We (INAUDIBLE) that drawdown is slowing down and they will keep some assets there. But now you're looking at several countries where the U.S., if it doesn't have complete blind spots, it is blinder than it used to be, pulled out a lot of assets from Yemen, where AQAP is, largely a blind spot in Syria and, until recently, more so in Iraq until U.S. forces back on the ground there. All these countries where you have severe terror threats. Is the U.S., by pulling out of these places, setting itself up for more intelligence failures like this going forward?

BERGEN: I think the short answer is yes. I mean our plan to completely withdraw to accept a very small force at the end of December 2016 in Afghanistan, you know, by definition is going to impact our ability to kind of contain al Qaeda. And I - you know, I think the administration, to its credit, is kind of stepping back from that policy a little bit, slowing down the pace of withdrawal. But I would like to see both Democrat and Republican candidates for the presidency say, hey, we're not going to turn off the lights in Afghanistan at the end of 2016 and put that in their platforms because we saw - we've already run this videotape in Iraq and it was a disaster. Why would we do this again to ourselves when we can predict with some degree of fidelity what's actually going to happen if there's a total absence of American presence, or a very small American presence in Afghanistan. We're not talking about sustaining a lot - a big troop presence, but some kind of presence that is not just basically protecting our embassy in Kabul I think is necessary.

SCIUTTO: No question. I mean these are easy issues to snipe from the outside, but they require hard decisions. How many boots on the ground, American boots on the ground? The other risk that that - that takes on. Big, big decisions coming forward.

Jason Beardsley, Peter Bergen, great to have you both on today.

BERGEN: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: We want to take you now to Capitol Hill. That is where the Senate has just voted on Loretta Lynch's nomination for attorney general. This is another story that has been in the news. Delayed for longer than the sum total of delays with previous attorneys general as they were nominated. Earlier this week on Sunday, Senator Bob Corker, the Republican chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, told us on the air that it would be settled this week. That's turned out to be the case. Our CNN's Athena Jones is live now on Capitol Hill. Athena, how did this compromise agreement come about after so long?

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, let me first tell you that Loretta Lynch was cleared 56 to 43. She had more support than she need. She only needed those 51 votes to win but 10 Republicans voted to confirm Loretta Lynch after all this time. One of them was Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell. He's someone who had been lobbied. I witnessed groups of black men, black women, clergy, activists coming to his office, his leadership office here in the Capitol, trying to lobby him not only to schedule the vote but also to vote yes on Loretta Lynch.

The compromise came about on Tuesday. It was - there was a long fight over a human trafficking bill that is entirely unrelated to the Lynch nomination. But there was a fight over abortion language. That - a compromise was reached on that language finally on Tuesday. That allowed us to - that allowed them to get the vote on the schedule and brought us to this day when Loretta Lynch becomes the first black woman to head the Department of Justice.

Her father, a fourth generation Baptist minister, was in the gallery today to watch the vote, as were several House members. Women - black women members of the House came over to watch the - watch the vote, as well as a lot of other Lynch supporters. So this is a day that a lot of people have been waiting for. Finally, Loretta Lynch got a vote and she was confirmed.

Jim.

SCIUTTO: Athena Jones, thank you.

And, Brooke, you'll remember, just on Friday, when President Obama made that very angry demand to get Loretta Lynch approved, he said, this is embarrassing. He'd been waiting so long.

BALDWIN: He sure did.

SCIUTTO: And just in a few days' time, the Senate, in a rare moment I suppose of some bipartisanship here, moving forward on that nomination

BALDWIN: Made it happen. Made it happen and confirmed her. Jim Sciutto, thank you so much.

[14:15:00] Huge, huge stories we're following obviously out of Washington, but also, you know, not a slow day here in Baltimore either. We are anticipating - and I'm already starting to see - I've seen some police starting to amass. They've - they've cordoned off city hall behind me here in anticipation of these rallies. They'll begin gathering live during this show. They want justice in the death of 25-year-old Freddie Gray here in Baltimore. All of this as the president of the police union in a statement compared these protesters here to, quote, "a lynch mob." We'll speak live with one of the organizers here to respond to that.

Also ahead, we have seen the cell phone videos that happened that day on April 12th. But what about those police surveillance cameras that are positioned throughout the city? Were they not working? And if not, why?

This is CNN's special live coverage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:20:03] BALDWIN: And we're back. You're watching CNN's special live coverage here. I'm Brooke Baldwin live in Baltimore. And we're here because we're watching for these thousands - we're hearing potentially thousands too show up here at Baltimore City Hall for multiple days in a row now. Really six different days they've been rallying, and the crowds have grown.

I'm seeing just a couple single people with posters saying "justice for Freddie Gray," but we're really anticipating those larger crowds within the next hour.

Here on the street, you have state troopers at the direction of the governor. They are now backing up local police. So far, demonstrations have been fairly peaceful as the chant of "justice for Freddie Gray" continues to echo through this city here in Maryland.

The 25-year-old's family just received his body this morning and their attorney says they will be conducting a private autopsy of the man who died Sunday in police custody.

I also want to share this with you. New amateur video shows Gray in those leg restraints. We've been talking about it. You see the video. Officials say he was put in irons after his initial arrest, after he was placed in that prisoner transport van because he got quote/unquote "irate." But listen now to a witness who says she saw these police officers place those leg restraints on Gray. He died a week after his arrest because of that spinal cord injury. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACQUELINE JACKSON, SAW FREDDIE GRAY IN LEG RESTRAINTS: He wasn't responding. His head was down. His feet was like this. And they picked him up and threw him up in the paddy wagon.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He looked unconscious to you?

JACKSON: Yes. Yes. And I asked them, could they get him a paramedic. They told me to mind my business. I said, it is my business.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Gray's supporters soon to gather here right now. They're not only outraged over his death but also by a comment from the police union. This is coming in a statement. Union officials say five of the six suspended officers have spoken within investigators about what happened to Freddie Gray, and a representative said this in a statement. And I'm quoting now. "We are very concerned about the rhetoric of the protests. In fact, the images seen on television look and sound much like a lynch mob."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GENE RYAN, PRESIDENT, BALTIMORE FRATERNAL ORDER OF POLICE: They've already tried and convicted the officers. And that's just unfair. They still get their day in court. They did not give up their constitutional rights when they became a law enforcement officer. That's what I was getting at to that. But some of the - the protesters and some of the stuff I've been watching on the news, they want them put in prison. Well, they haven't been charged.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Standing with me now, Reverend Cortly or C.D. Witherspoon from the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, one of the organizers of a number of these different protests.

So, reverend, it's nice to see you in the flesh here in your hometown.

REV. CORTLY WITHERSPOON, SOUTHERN CHRISTIAN LEADERSHIP CONFERENCE: Good to be here.

BALDWIN: I just wanted to begin with you. We're going to get to your investigation and your news with your group in a second. But reacting to hearing the words "lynch mob," react to that for me. Let's all acknowledge, poor choice of words, but also the fact that a lot of folks here though too are demanding charges for these police officers when we don't know all the facts just yet.

WITHERSPOON: Right. I think citizens here have righteous indignation. And I think they have righteous indignation because this commissioner has had culpability in not firing officers in the past for similar types of actions. So people are passionate.

Three years ago, Anthony Anderson was killed by the Baltimore City Police Department. His case was determined to be a homicide by the Maryland medical examiner's office, but there were no charges brought before the officers and they were allowed to keep their jobs. We contend they had a paid expense - vacation at the taxpayers' expense.

Two years ago, Tyrone West was killed by the same police department. He was drug out of his car, beaten and Tased to death by the Baltimore City Police Department and, again, no charges, no indictments. They were allowed to keep their jobs.

BALDWIN: We talked earlier this week and you named these different cases. And we talked to "The Baltimore Sun" and their investigation and all these settlements, all this money that was paid out because of these lawsuits.

WITHERSPOON: Yes.

BALDWIN: But in this case, in the case of Freddie Gray, I see (INAUDIBLE) announcing that you all want to conduct your own investigation into his death. So how - how will you do that without access to - to all these different, you know, police records and investigations?

WITHERSPOON: What we do is we do a community base, quite frankly. BALDWIN: OK.

WITHERSPOON: We go door to door. We've talked to residents who have indicated to us that they've not talked to the Baltimore City Police Department. People who indicate to us that they were there when Mr. Gray was taken into custody. So we've contracted the services of a private investigator from the state of New Jersey. He has experience in working on civil rights cases to do just that, to go door to door, to talk to people in the neighborhood who are outraged, who witnessed what happened and who want to be heard.

BALDWIN: And - and part of this is the fact that those surveillance cameras - when I was reading "The Baltimore Sun" this morning, they were pointing out there are eight different surveillance cameras placed by the city in this neighborhood and not a single one of those actually captured the arrest. So that's one of the questions people are asking about and that's one of the reasons you were saying why you want to launch the investigation.

[14:25:05] WITHERSPOON: Yes, that is absolutely correct. Our contention is, is what happened to the footage? Why aren't the cameras being accessed? And we're also concerned about the fact that if the cameras were defective, why were they allowed to stay up? Because it's a public safety issue.

So we are desperately concerned about those cameras. That's one of the things that we mentioned to our investigator when we asked for his help and he so graciously accepted the invitation to come.

BALDWIN: This happened in your neighborhood. You live right around the corner. Help us understand, those who have never been, never lived, walked in the shoes you've walked, help us understand - because from what I understand, there's a lot of family members, a lot of community members and police frequent the area.

WITHERSPOON: Yes.

BALDWIN: And when folks see police, it seems to me that they run out and they're concerned about their loved ones and they grab their cell phones. What's the instinct there?

WITHERSPOON: Well, we call them jump-out boys in west Baltimore. They're called jump-out - the police officers -

BALDWIN: Who is the they? The police?

WITHERSPOON: The police officers are called jump-out boys and they -

BALDWIN: Why do you call them that?

WITHERSPOON: Well, they call them that because frequently police officers jump out of their cars without probable cause, as was the case we contend in this case, and they do stop and frisk, racial profiling, driving while black happens in west Baltimore every single day. And oftentimes people are stopped by the police without a traffic stop receipt. So that means that people don't know, they aren't giving a just - a real reason, a justification for the stop.

BALDWIN: They - just to - just to say that police have said that this is a high crime area and it's not about probable cause, it's about reasonable suspicion and the fact that in this area he ran the opposite direction from police. That's how they maintain it was a constitutional stop.

WITHERSPOON: You know, that's - and that's true. Well, let me say this. Judge Rehnquist (ph) issued a statement not long ago that - indicating that running from the police is not against the law. And when you live in a climate where Michael Brown was killed and no consequences were rendered, Eric Garner in New York was killed, no consequences rendered, and even in this city, the are - the three cases I continue to mention, where these officers are killing unarmed African-American men without consequence.

Actually, I'm not surprised that he ran. Whether or not it was the best decision to make, I think that's up for debate.

BALDWIN: OK.

WITHERSPOON: But I'm not surprised that he was nervous by coming in contact with the police because oftentimes those encounters are deadly.

BALDWIN: Reverend Witherspoon, thank you so much. I appreciate it.

He was also pointing out to me, this is the first time that the rally will actually take place here at city hall. It's been happening the last couple days, Jim Sciutto, in west Baltimore. So this will be happening, as you can see, city hall behind me, on the steps here of city hall and this entire area around it. Already starting to cordon off parts of it. So we're going to be here and wait for folks to arrive.

Jim.

SCIUTTO: It is great to have you there.

Coming up next here, as we get word that the U.S. accidently killed two hostage, we're going to talk about the Obama administration's controversial drone program. How it works, who signs off, and the risks involved.

Plus, Senator John McCain will speak publicly for the first time since this news broke in just moments. That's right here on CNN.

This is CNN's special live coverage.

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