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Freddie Gray's Fatal Spine Injury; Candidates Building Campaign War Chests. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired April 22, 2015 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:32:54] MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Good to have you back with us here on NEW DAY.

The Justice Department is now investigating the death of Freddie Gray, the Baltimore man who died from severe spine injuries a week after being arrested. Baltimore police have only said that gray suffered a tragic injury to his spinal cord. But how did that happen?

I want to turn to Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky. He is a forensic scientist and chair of science department of John Jay College of Criminal Justice.

Good to have you here with us.

DR. LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Good morning.

PEREIRA: There's so much we don't know. And there's so much speculation. But I kind of want to start with the facts of what we do know at this point about the case.

Mr. Gray was arrested on April 12th. He was put into the van by the police after his arrest. And we also know sadly that he died from injury to his spinal cord. Now, there's a whole list, Larry, of things we don't know -- when injury happened, how it happened and the specific spinal cord injury.

When you hear this spinal cord injury, what kind of force would it require to hurt him in this way?

KOBILINSKY: Well, it really depends. I think the spinal cord injury was secondary to the fractured vertebrae.

PEREIRA: OK.

KOBILINSKY: These were cervical vertebrae. And there could have been a dislocation. And in fact we don't know exactly when the spinal cord was severed, 80 percent severed. It could have happened at the same time the vertebrae were fractured, or it could have happened secondarily when he was already in the van. His head, his neck, was not immobilized, which is what should be done in a neck injury.

PEREIRA: OK. Let's actually pull up. I've got the video here on the magic wall. And we can show it here for you.

Again, it's all very gruesome and difficult to watch. When you see this video, you're talking about the fact you believe there was some sort of initial trauma that he suffered.

KOBILINSKY: Well, unfortunately we don't have the events that occurred prior to the beginning of this video. He obvious had been taken down. He had been tackled by the police.

PEREIRA: Did you see this part? I mean, his head -- this is so hard to talk about -- his head is lolling, his legs are dragging, this isn't necessarily a suspect trying to resist arrest.

[06:35:08] KOBILINSKY: Yes, it appears there was trauma to the spinal cord. Whether or not it had been severed at that point is unclear.

PEREIRA: Would he have been able to talk if it had been severed? Would he have been able to breathe?

KOBILINSKY: He would have been able to talk. Respiration would have been affected by a severed spinal cord depending upon where the damage occurred in the neck. There could have been quadriplegia or paraplegia.

PEREIRA: Here's a wider video. We'll keep going.

So, one of the things we don't understand is when he went into the van he was able to breathe. He was talking. He was moving. But he was not walking without help.

When he came out of the van, he was not talking and he was not breathing.

KOBILINSKY: And that's why I raise the possibility that while he was in the van his neck had not been immobilized. The van could have jolted or he could have rotated his head or hyper-extended his head.

PEREIRA: It wouldn't take much at that point after that initial trauma?

KOBILINSKY: I don't think so. We really need to know what the damaged vertebrae looked like. And we won't know that until we see x- rays and autopsy results.

PEREIRA: And that autopsy is expected sometime today.

KOBILINSKY: Correct.

PEREIRA: It will fill in a lot of the blanks or all of the blanks for you?

KOBILINSKY: Well, it will fill in some of the blanks, but it will not really describe when the initial injury occurred. That's something that will remain a mystery unless the investigation reveals more information.

PEREIRA: OK. So we know that the injury was to his spinal cord. Obviously, we're looking at an x-ray sort of vision. We're not seeing the skin. Would there have been external bruising?

KOBILINSKY: Not necessarily. But the damage would have been in this region right over here.

PEREIRA: OK. Right around here?

KOBILINSKY: Right around here. We don't know which vertebrae were affected. But an injury to the cervical vertebrae could result in problems going down the spinal cord. So --

PEREIRA: Oh, it would affect the legs.

KOBILINSKY: Absolutely, it would have affected the legs.

PEREIRA: An injury here would have affected the legs here.

KOBILINSKY: Clearly, yes.

PEREIRA: That's interesting. Freddie Gray's family has said that he had surgery for three fractured neck vertebrae and a crushed voice box. So the crushed voice box would be in the front.

KOBILINSKY: Yes. This is still a little bit mysterious. But, again, the possibility is that when he was tackled, the weight of the police officer and his own weight causing an impact to the neck could explain most if not all of those observations.

PEREIRA: I want to go back to this timeline. I'll run through it very briefly. We know at 8:39, Gray was arrested. He runs from the police officers, is arrested a minute later. At 8:42 they call for a prisoner transport.

We see the video there. He was able to talk and was breathing at this time. 8:54 -- there's a lot of questions about this -- additional restraints were put on Mr. Gray. We don't know for what reason and how they were put on him. But then fast forward it's all of this time here. All of this time here; 9:24 an ambulance is called to the police station for Mr. Gray.

This is the time, Larry, that we don't know anything about.

KOBILINSKY: That's correct. But as you pointed out, the restraints were put on at 8:54. The restraint that should have been put on is a neck brace of some sort.

PEREIRA: Interesting.

KOBILINSKY: Yes, this is a total unknown, but I do think it's possible that the cord sustained further injury in the van. That's a possibility. He was talking, so I don't know what this means about a crushed larynx, voice box. It's not necessarily consistent with what we're hearing.

PEREIRA: Dr. Kobilinsky, always a pleasure. As hard as it is to walk through this stuff, it's important to get your scientific perception on it. Appreciate it, Doctor.

KOBILINSKY: Thank you.

PEREIRA: All right. Chris, over to you.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: We know it's early in the 2016 game for president, but we already know one thing for sure and you should care about it. This race is going to be all about the money more than ever. And don't let any candidate tell you they want to change the game because the proof is in the pudding.

[06:39:11] Our political panel breaks down just how much money's expected to come in and who is fueling the fire, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: More demonstrations planned today outside the Baltimore Police Department to protest the death of Freddie Gray, who suffered severe spinal cord injury while in police custody. The police finally releasing the names of the six officers suspended with pay following Gray's arrest. Four are relatively new to the force, two have more than a decade of experience. The Justice Department launching a civil rights investigation.

PEREIRA: Afghan Taliban vowing attacks across the country, starting Friday. The Taliban spokesman announcing a spring offensive against what it calls foreign occupiers at a time when U.S.-led foreign forces are pulling back from the front lines. It will also be the first time Afghan security forces won't have the full support of NATO combat forces.

CUOMO: The Senate as early as tomorrow may finally vote on the confirmation of Loretta Lynch as attorney general. More than five months after she was nominated by the president. Now, Majority Leader Mitch McConnell says a bipartisan deal on an unrelated human trafficking bill, which again has absolutely nothing to do with Lynch and has been twisted into a tool for petty politics, nevertheless that deal clears the way for the Lynch vote.

Despite broad based and bipartisan approval for Lynch, she's waited longer for confirmation than any attorney general nominee in the last 30 years. The good news, if confirmed, Lynch would be the first African-American female to hold the post.

CAMEROTA: Here's some heart pounding video to show you. This is out of Washington, D.C. Look at this.

A man in a wheelchair rolls off the platform, falling on to the subway tracks. This happened Tuesday afternoon. Bystanders rushed to help him. The victim was unable to move. Fortunately, they are able to pull him to safety. They lifted his wheelchair and they immediately alerted authorities.

The man was taken to the hospital. He is expected to be OK, we're happy to report.

[06:45:02] PEREIRA: We've seen strollers and wheelchairs happen. Could they not put just an ever so slight lip?

CUOMO: No, because they're afraid of people tripping as they get into the train. And then people stuck between the trains and we saw them.

PEREIRA: Yes, because I guess they can't be flush.

CUOMO: They say the question is moving back the entire cue. You know, you see that line there nobody observes?

PEREIRA: Yes.

CUOMO: That that actually would help if you had some kind of semblance of order like you do in London or something, when you get on --

PEREIRA: Wasn't he behind --

CUOMO: This man's in a wheelchair. Who knows went out of control with his brake or whatever and allowed him to roll. But I have to tell you this is the show of the uncheery kicker.

This is nice. People came to this man's aid.

CAMEROTA: That is nice.

CUOMO: The kicker is usually a squirrel on a surfboard, or --

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: I'm going to find a cat playing a trombone.

CUOMO: This is a near death kicker.

(LAUGHTER)

CUOMO: All right. Alison Kosik, save us with some business news on money now.

ALISON KOSIK, CNN MONEY CORRESPONDENT: This isn't the greatest news, but what the CDC is saying with this outbreak of listeria and Blue Bell ice cream, they're saying it's been going on since 2010. This week, Blue Bell recalled every product sold in 23 states because of the potential health risk. This year three people have died and ten others have gotten sick from the bacteria.

So, this is interesting, prosecutors are pinning the 2010 flash crash on one guy, a stock trader in the U.K. The 37-year-old was arrested for causing the chaos on May 6th when the Dow fell 600 points in a matter of minutes. He's accused of flooding the market with big orders and making $9 million as the market fell and rebounded.

OK, so gas is cheap, down more than a dollar from this time last year. But for some reason people are ditching their hybrids and electric cars opting for SUVs. So far this year only 45 percent of people trading in a hybrid bought another one. The silver lining here is that new SUVs are becoming more fuel efficient.

The little bit of ironic twist I bring you on this day though is that it's Earth Day. Happy Earth Day, everybody. They're trading in their hybrids for sort of gas guzzlers.

PEREIRA: On Earth Day, yes, that is an interesting proposition. All right. Thanks so much, Alison.

Well, it's only 19 months to the presidential election. Candidates are busy building up their bank accounts. Why are White House hopefuls already raking in the cash? And who is leading the charge? We'll take a look.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:51:28] CAMEROTA: All right. Let's talk money. The 2016 presidential election will likely be the most expensive ever.

Next week, Hillary Clinton will hold five fundraisers in just two days. Jeb Bush has already had 47 fundraisers.

CUOMO: That's a lot of rubber chicken.

CAMEROTA: That's a lot considering he hasn't gotten into the race.

CUOMO: That's true.

CAMEROTA: That's just been since January. So let's look at all the money pouring into this election.

CUOMO: The keyword there is PAC. So, let's get some perspective.

CNN political reporter Sara Murray and CNN political commentator Ryan Lizza.

Great to have you both here.

When we say the word "expensive", it's really expensive for the voters, right? I mean, that's what this is really about.

Ryan, the most expensive ever.

RYAN LIZZA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.

CUOMO: The rules is all about legal money. That's the problem. Is there any way to qualify the corruption of the system?

LIZZA: Well, look, you're not going to fix this system unless you have a constitutional amendment, right? The Supreme Court has said that -- the Supreme Court set up these new rules.

CUOMO: The Citizens United, unless you have a better case.

LIZZA: Right. So you have these outside groups now. If I'm a candidate running for president, I can go to you and get whatever it is, $2,700. I've got to raise $2,700 from as many people as possible. If I'm a super PAC I can go to you and get as much as you want to give me $1 million.

So, everything is now flowing to these outside super PACs because they can raise money in unlimited amounts. So, you're seeing the campaigns now outsource all of their internal polling and TV ads now to these new super PACs. That's the big development in 2016.

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes, I mean, the idea these are outside groups, though. I mean, if you look at it right now, Jeb Bush has not declared he's a candidate. So he has his outside group, which is the Right to Rise super PAC, and he can show up at the events and raise money until he declares.

This weekend, Sunday, Monday, he's going to be in Miami with some of the biggest donors for the Right to Rise super PAC. They're going to give their donations. They're going to meet his campaign staff. But when he actually announces, they're going to have to sever ties.

LIZZA: Which gets into the issue of this system --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: Sever. You have to do this, Sara.

LIZZA: Jeb is probably going to have his most trusted adviser run the super PAC. The Supreme Court says you can't coordinate, right? So, Jeb can't talk to his super PAC once they get it set up. So you have the smoke and mirrors in the pre-process and then you separate the two groups.

CAMEROTA: I remember the last two presidential elections, the astronomical number of what it costs makes you physically sick.

LIZZA: Billions.

CAMEROTA: Right. And the idea this one is going to be more, what is the estimate for this one?

LIZZA: Well, I think these numbers are always wrong, but for Hillary Clinton they're saying with the outside groups and her own campaign $2 billion to $3 billion, with a B, for the primaries and general election if she makes it that far.

MURRAY: And I think when we talk about astronomical sum of money here, I remember I covered Romney's campaign in 2012, at the end of that campaign, they had so much money. They were just calling state director, state director in Ohio, hey, what else you guys, what do you need? You need another $3 million?

CAMEROTA: Because they over raised? They over-fundraised?

MURRAY: They had all the money they kind of needed at that point.

CUOMO: There's no restriction.

MURRAY: There's only a certain amount of air time you can buy. When you've bought all the field time, do you need to add your staff, do you need more interns. Like let us, we have an extra $3 million.

CAMEROTA: OK. So, given that can they dial it back a little?

LIZZA: I don't think so. Look, the plan for both Hillary Clinton and to a lesser extent Jeb Bush is to overwhelm any potential candidates and make sure you don't have any competition.

CUOMO: Look at Dr. Ben Carson, sure, they're not your big headliners. They may not come in and steal an election but that's what it used to be about is divergent opinions coming in and testing you as the big dog in the raise.

Now, these guys all say the same thing, I got to see if I can raise the money. I got to see if I can get the money.

[06:55:02] LIZZA: Just to play devil's advocate, one thing the super PACs do allow you to do if you're an obscure candidate with a billionaire backer, in the old days, George W. Bush could come in and raise money from individual people and clear the field. Now, at least if you are an obscure candidate with a billionaire, you can set up a super PAC who can keep your campaign going longer than it would have been in the old days.

CUOMO: So, apparently, you need the billionaire. That's the insult to the process here as the word everyday American is now being injected back and everybody saying everyday American now, taking us back into the '50s of that type of exploiting of the middle class.

But it's not about everyday Americans, is it? I mean, it's all about how much money you can raise.

MURRAY: I think it depends what side of the aisle you're on on that. Yes, you need to raise a lot of money. But I think if you're Hillary Clinton you want to be able to bring in the small donations too because Barack Obama did it. And you want to be able to prove that you're a candidate of the people.

I think on the Republican side they haven't put as much effort into this, they haven't put as much focus into this. And for the rest of the field, if your name is not Jeb Bush, they do, they say, look, we might not have as many guys that can bring in $50,000 each, but what we have is a billionaire.

CAMEROTA: Presidential hopeful Ted Cruz really hit on this. He talked about this having to constantly fund raise, let me read to you what he said. "I told my 6-year-old daughter, running for office is real simple, you just surgically disconnect your shame sensor because you spend every day asking people for money. You walk up and say, how are you doing, sir? Can I have money? Great to see you, lovely shirt, please give me money. That's what running for office is like."

Has anything more poetic ever been said? I mean --

LIZZA: It's a long way from Schoolhouse Rock in terms of teaching kids about our democracy.

That, I think, to your point of what's corrupting about this is if you were a politician and you have to spend all your time with this sort of class of multimillionaires and billionaires, that is corrupting to your view of the world. That changes your sense of what issues are really important. I mean, when these guys go to say the Koch brother conference to try to win their support, they have issues like anyone else but not necessarily the top issues on the minds of American people. When you go to Sheldon Adelson, one of the billionaires in Las Vegas who is very influential in Republican politics, he has a set of narrow issues that are not the ones the American people are talking about.

I think that's as much as the money that is what is corrupting.

CUOMO: Most fundamental test of leadership, Sara, is you go first on tough situations. Do you think we'll hear anybody come out and say I'm not going to raise the money like all these other people, I'm not going to play this game with these super PACs, I'm going to be about you and coming to you?

MURRAY: I would be beyond shocked if you saw anyone do that. I think that you will see people say, look, we don't like the system, we don't like the super PACs, we have to play by the rules that everyone else is playing by. Nobody wants to be the person who can't raise money.

So, I think you're going to see them all do the same thing even if they say they have to hold their nose and do it.

CAMEROTA: Ryan, Sara, thank you. We'll talk to you again in 566 days.

CUOMO: It's a big story and there are a lot of them this morning. So, let's get right to the news.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(CHANTING)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Justice Department has now launched a civil rights investigation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was he arrested for? That is unclear to me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Saudi Arabia is ending its air campaign inside Yemen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't understand what's going on in --

CUOMO: The U.S. warships now near Yemen, watching for arm shipments for Iran.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Daily hundreds and hundreds of migrants arriving. The Italian authorities struggling to deal with them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These migrants are coming from failed states, countries simply under nobody's control.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ten doctors are accused Oz of promoting what they call quack treatments.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He will not be silenced. We will not give in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's not practicing medicine, he's bringing novel ideas.

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota, and Michaela Pereira.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: The spring morning looking out over New York there.

Good morning everyone. Welcome back to your NEW DAY.

There is anger stilling over in Baltimore this morning. The first major demonstrations over the death of Freddie Gray who died of spinal injuries one week after being taken into police custody. With no answers, protesters took their message to the steps of city hall and Baltimore police headquarters.

CUOMO: Those police are now releasing the names of the six officers suspended with pay. The Justice Department is jumping in with a civil rights investigation.

So, let's begin our coverage in Baltimore with CNN's Suzanne Malveaux -- Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: Well, Chris, I was at that protest last night where I saw Freddie Gray's mother collapse with grief, where we saw the brother there screaming for justice.

Well, we expect the family members, protesters, those in the community to be here at city hall tomorrow to demand answers. It has been ten days now since Freddie Gray was taken into police custody and three days since he died. And we still have very little information.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(CHANTING)

MALVEAUX (voice-over): The voices of demonstrators united, making their point clear -- Baltimore is fed up.

The Baltimore police department lined with barricades and officers.