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U.S. Puts Nine Warships Off Yemen's Coast; Iranian Ships May Be Looking To Resupply Rebels; Iran Says They Won't Be Swayed By Threats; U.N. Intent On Stopping Iranian Weapons; Journalist charged with Espionage; ISIS Targets U.S. Consulate; Interview with Qubad Talabani. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired April 21, 2015 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Washington, 7:00 p.m. in Berlin, 8:00 p.m. in Irbil and 9:30 p.m. in Tehran. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

We start with a swirl of activity surrounding Iran and the United States. Right now, two more U.S. warships, they've joined others off Yemen's coast, waiting for Iranian ships that may be carrying weapons intended for rebel fighters in Yemen. This while negotiators resume talks on Iran's nuclear program. Iran wants immediate cessation of sanctions an idea the United States may be, repeat, may be closer to accepting. But the Obama administration is also calling Iran's judiciary absurd after they leveled espionage charges against an American journalist held there.

Last week, the Iraqi prime minister was here in Washington. While asking for more money and weapons to fight ISIS, Haider Al Abadi sided with Iran saying that the Saudi-led coalition in Yemen was pushing the region closer to a greater war. But that hasn't stopped the United States from taking a larger role in the Arab coalition with nine U.S. warships now settled off the coast of Yemen.

Here with me is our Chief National Security Correspondent Jim Sciutto. Jim, it sets the stage for what I call compartmentalization.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

BLITZER: Negotiations in Vienna over the nuclear deal while, at the same time, the potential for some sort of confrontation between the U.S. and Iranian warships off the coast of Yemen.

SCIUTTO: Well, the circumstances are certainly tense and dangerous. But let's say this, the principle mission of those U.S. warships now is because of the deterioration of the situation in Yemen. It gives the president military options, counterterror options off the deck of an aircraft carrier inside Yemen if he would decide to strike.

In addition to that, they are monitoring these nine Iranian ships for the possibility that they go into Yemeni territorial waters, and they would be, theoretically, prepared to board them. But, frankly, and I've talked to a lot of defense officials about this, that would be an extraordinary scenario, to have a U.S. ship boarding -- blocking and boarding an Iranian ship. There are other options. You have allied ships in the area, the Saudis, Egyptians who are part of this flotilla watching the Iranians.

And, to be frank, there are other options for the president down the line. If this ship -- if those Iranian ships are indeed carrying weapons -- they're not certain. The satellite photographs show containers. They're not certain they have weapons. But if they are, once the weapons go ashore, you have other options, opportunities to destroy them, interdict them, et cetera.

So, I think what you're seeing now is a show of force by the U.S. in a very tense situation. The U.S. has made its position clear on Iran arming the Houthi rebels. But I would say, based on the conversations I'm having, that it's extremely unlikely that you would have a U.S. naval personnel forcibly boarding an Iranian ship.

BLITZER: Because the argument has been made, and it's an international legal argument, the U.N. Security Council passed a resolution saying you can't arm the Houthi rebels, the Shiite-led Iran-backed Houthi rebels. So, it's one thing for Iranian ships to be transporting arms in international waters, but once they get into Yemeni water, sovereign waters, territorial waters of Yemen, technically, there is an international legal authority to go ahead and inspect those ships.

SCIUTTO: Absolutely. And you'll notice, in statements from U.S. officials and others in the region, they have mentioned those very U.N. Security Council resolutions as a kind of public reminder, a marker to the Iranians, one, that we're watching. We've got our ships there. And two, we consider that U.N. resolution enforceable.

Now, making the step where you use, in effect, the forcible boarding to enforce that, that's a really risky move. It's not a move that U.S. decided to make but you have assets in that region out to monitor.

BLITZER: It's a serious situation, a tense situation. And it's not just U.S. warships. As you say, Saudi warships and there are Egyptian warships, UAE warships that are also in the region. The potential is there.

SCIUTTO: Absolutely. And we don't control what they do, necessarily. We're allies but we can't tell them not to if they were to make that decision.

BLITZER: And no love between the Saudis, for example, and the Iranians, as we all know.

SCIUTTO: Exactly.

BLITZER: All Right, Jim Sciutto, thanks very much.

As Yemen descends further into chaos, the escape route for many people trapped there has closed. The International Organization for Migration had been running emergency flights out of Yemen's capital, but now they, too, are considered too dangerous.

Our Fred Pleitgen, meanwhile, has more on Yemen and what role Iran says they are playing there.

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FRED PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Escalating violence on the ground in Yemen. But there may be an even more dangerous confrontation brewing at sea. While the U.S. has sent warships to the area to intercept Iranian vessels that might make a run for Yemen's waters, the commander of Iran's navy tells me his forces have no such intentions.

HABBOLLAH SAYYAN, COMMANDER, IRAN REGULAR NAVY (translated): We don't let anyone gives us warnings or threats, he says, because we are working according to international law and regulations, and we work for the security of our country and other countries.

[13:05:03] PLEITGEN: The U.N. passed a resolution placing an arms embargo on the Houthi rebels that have taken control of much of Yemen. Saudi Arabia and the U.S. accuse Iran of supplying the Houthis with weapons. But Iran says its ships are just in the area to fight piracy.

SAYYAN: We've established a presence in that area to protect our oil tankers and other Iranian ships. And, up to today, we've been very successful and, in some instances, other countries have even asked us for help.

PLEITGEN: The Iranians heavily criticize Saudi Arabia's air campaign against the Houthis but say they will only provide food and medical assistance. Workers loading supplies at this warehouse in Tehran slated to go to Yemen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And this one is (INAUDIBLE) for pain. And this one --

PLEITGEN (on camera): So, it's mostly pain relievers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pain, antibody (ph) serum.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): The Iranian Red Crescent tells us they've not been able to make any shipments to Yemen since late March, but officials want to resume deliveries as fast as possible.

(on camera): Iran maintains that any aid it sends to Yemen is purely humanitarian. Now, this shipment is supposed to go out today but with the fighting going on in Yemen it's unclear when or if it will reach its destination.

(voice-over): While Iran and world powers continue to negotiate towards a final nuclear agreement, in other matters, like the Yemen conflict, tensions between Tehran and Washington continue to grow.

(END VIDEOTAPE) BLITZER: Let's bring in Fred Pleitgen. He's joining us live from Tehran in Iran right now. Fred, over the weekend, as you know, Ayatollah Hamani said this, he said, the threat to the region, in his words, is, quote, "America itself with its unrestrained destabilizing interventions" and said the other side was, quote, "methodically and shamelessly threatening us militarily." Is that the tone you've been hearing there from officials, government, military leaders on the ground in Iran?

PLEITGEN (live): Well, it certainly has been, Wolf. But there is also that element of what you were talking about before, that compartmentalization. You know, I came here on Saturday and that was the day that the Iranians here celebrated their National Army Day parade. And during that time, you did have banners going around saying, death to America. You had President Hassan Rouhani giving a speech saying that he believed that the Iranian military was the stabilizing force, not only for Iran itself but for the entire region. They praised what they were doing in Iraq. They were senior military leaders here who normally never speak to western media who told me that they believe it's their strategy that is winning in Iraq rather than the one that the -- that the Americans are following.

So, certainly, there is an element where they clearly say they believe that America isn't a threat to them. They clearly celebrate their military and its readiness. But on the same time, and this is so interesting, they also say they want negotiations, especially if you talk to members of the Rouhani government. I spoke to the vice president just yesterday and she told me, of course they want to deal. Of course they want to make a deal happen but she also acknowledged that there were forces here who were more conservative who, of course, are more difficult to persuade in such a thing -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Fred Pleitgen reporting live from Tehran for us. We'll stay in very close touch with you over these next several days. Thank you.

Up next, much more on the rising tensions between the United States and Iran, as American warships stand guard over Yemen's coast.

Plus, at 93, he's one of the few former Nazi SS Guards (ph) still alive. The accountant who kept the books at Auschwitz finally stands trial. The horrifying allegations against him, his defense, all that and as lot more coming up.

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[13:12:00] BLITZER: It's time for the next step in the nuclear talks between the United States and Iran. With the June deadline looming, the Obama administration may be opening up to the idea of sanctions relief sooner rather than later. It's something Iran has strongly demanded.

Joining us now from New York is Peter Beinart. He's a CNN Political Commentator and a contributing editor for "Atlantic Media." And joining us from Windsor, California, via Skype, CNN Military Analyst, retired Lieutenant Colonel Rick Francona. Peter, these talks are just starting up again. They've got a lot of work to do between now and the end of June when everything is supposed to be finalized, written down on paper. But there are increasing tensions, as you know, rising over Yemen. The U.S. and Iran clearly on different sides in the war that's going on over there. Will this latest developments, U.S. warships moving in off the coast of Yemen, Iranian warships moving into that area, will that further complicate the already very complicated and dangerous nuclear talks that are resuming in Vienna?

PETER BEINART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think the Obama administration has decided to back Saudi Arabia, in large measure ironically, in order to help these negotiations because they feel that by reassuring Saudi Arabia and America's other Gulf allies, they can keep them on board as these negotiations go forward. I think that's the strategy.

The thing is, as Rick would know better than me, you know, when you actually start to deploy all these military assets in the region, things can get out of control. I mean, there could be some kind of accident. We don't know what could happen. And so, you could have some kind of unpredictable provocation that takes place that really does throw a wrench in these negotiations.

BLITZER: Yes, it wouldn't be the first time that happened, Rick. The rules of engagement I guess are pretty clear but you've got Iranian warships, U.S. warships, the USS aircraft carrier battle group "The Roosevelt" backed up by other ships. The White House just said, a few moments ago, that the deployment of these aircraft carrier battle group, it was in the words of Josh Earnest, designed to protect freedom of navigation and commerce in the area. But we also know, the U.S. is trying to prevent Iran from smuggling arms into the Houthi rebels in -- that are fighting in Yemen.

LT. COL. RICK FRANCONA, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, that's right, Wolf. There are two U.N. resolutions in play here. One prohibiting the Iranians from exporting weapons. The other from anyone providing weapons to the combatants in Yemen. So, with all of that, you've got all these ships in there and now we move the aircraft carrier "Teddy Roosevelt" into the area. This is a massive show of force. It is to defend and provide freedom of navigation. But it -- there's a subtle signal being sent, or maybe not so subtle, to the Iranians that we mean to enforce this resolution.

As long as those Iranian vessels stay in international waters, I don't think there's going to be a problem. There's a lot of communications. There are protocols in place for all of this navigation. So, the danger will be is if these ships actually try to and enter Yemeni territorial waters. Then, the United States has to make a decision. Do we somehow intervene?

BLITZER: This carrier battle group, "The Roosevelt," as you know, Rick, being used, until now, to launch air strikes against ISIS targets in Iraq and Syria. Now that carrier battle group has moved away from Iraq, moved closer, obviously, to Yemen. Does that weaken the overall mission against ISIS in Iraq and Syria? [13:15:14] RICK FRANCONA, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: No, not really,

because over time we've got more allies involved in the operation and we've also been a able to deploy forward deploy more land-based aviation. So what we have is about 80 percent of the Sorties now being flown by the U.S. Air Force so the Navy can actually move that carrier down around the Gulf of Aden to be where it needs to be if the president needs to use it for some other action.

BLITZER: Peter, as you know, Iran has now also formally charged an American journalist with espionage. Jason Rezaian has been held there - he writes for "The Washington Post" - now for nine months. He's one of a handful of Americans being held in Iran. There are members of the Senate right now who are demanding any nuclear deal with Iran, if there's going to be a nuclear deal with Iran, they've got to immediately release, free those Americans. Is that likely to happen given the sense of what's going on? Because, as you know, the Iranians stand to gain enormously with sanctions relief immediately. They'll get a bonanza of about $50 billion in frozen assets that they could - that would be a huge bonanza for their economy.

PETER BEINART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Right, and this is a really appalling action and, you know, it reminds you of the character of this Iranian government, that no one should think it's a benign actor and certainly not in the way it treats people at home. There have been a number of Iranian-Americans in particular who've - who have been imprisoned by this government.

But I - I think it's possible that some point along in these negotiations that the Iranians do let this guy out. But I think it's very, very unlikely that you're going to tie the nuclear negotiations to this formally. I'm not even necessarily sure that a lot of - a lot of human rights groups in the United States, that focus on democracy and human rights in Iran, would want to do that, as much as they are lobbying to try to get him out.

BLITZER: Why - why not? Tell me why - why you - why would this be too much to say to the Iranians, look, there's going to be a new chapter in the Iranian relationship with the U.S. and a whole bunch of other countries. Why not make this gesture as a - sort of an act of humanitarian kindness, shall we say?

BEINART: Well, I think we should absolutely be asking - more strongly than asking, pressing the Iranians to do that. I think the question coming out of Congress is, do you want to formally link the - the Iran deal to say there will be no Iran deal unless this is done. I haven't - I haven't actually seen this guy's family call for that, in fact. So I think it's one thing to use our diplomatic channels, absolutely. There are a whole series of things that Iran does that we have serious problems with, including the way it treats its people on a whole range of efforts. But the question, is the best strategy for to try - to tie all that to this Iranian nuclear deal, an Iranian nuclear, which is, after all, based on the effort to try to keep Iran from getting a nuclear weapon, which is very important in and of itself.

BLITZER: Yes, today, Senator Mark Kirk of Illinois, Senator Marco Rubio of Florida, they both demanded as part of any nuclear deal with Iran the Americans who are being held in Iran must be released and must be released right away. We'll see where this goes.

Peter Beinart, Rick Francona, guys, thanks very, very much.

The ISIS threat. Last week the terror group targeted the U.S. consulate right in the heart of the Kurdish territory in northern Iraq. Up next, I'll speak live with the Kurdish deputy prime minister, Qubad Talabani, about the dangers from ISIS, what's going on. We'll get a live report. That's coming up.

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[13:21:54] BLITZER: The U.S. State Department is investigating a suicide car bombing attack near the U.S. consulate in the Kurdish Iraqi city of Irbil. ISIS claimed responsibility for last week's attack, making it the first time it had directly targeted a major U.S. installation. Irbil is also where some American diplomatic personnel were moved away from Baghdad after ISIS moved closer to the Iraqi capital. It raised serious questions about the threat level from ISIS inside the Kurdish territory.

Let's go to Irbil right now. I want to bring in Qubad Talabani. He's the deputy prime minister of the Kurdistan regional government. He's joining us live from Irbil.

Qubad, thanks very much for joining us.

The attack on the U.S. consulate, I know no Americans were killed or seriously injured, but is this a wake-up call that ISIS is directly going after the heart of Kurdistan, Irbil, where you are right now?

QUBAD TALABANI, DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER, KURDISTAN REGIONAL GOVT.: Thank you, Wolf. Thanks for having me on your - on your show again.

It's well known that in the last few weeks, the Kurdish forces have made significant advances in our fight against ISIS. We've been able to defeat them in numerous battles, but - and also repel several attempts by ISIL to take back some territory that we had taken from them. But as you rightly said, recently there was this attack in Irbil. It was in a usually populated part of the city. Very close to the U.S. consulate. It is not quite clear yet whether the U.S. consulate was the direct target because the vehicle that exploded was parked outside of a cafe that is across the road from the U.S. consulate.

BLITZER: That's a pretty big consulate. There are hundreds of Americans, diplomats, military personnel, private citizens, in Irbil, right? Do you have any number of how many Americans are there?

TALABANI: There is a sizable U.S. presence at the consulate in Irbil. They have an economic office, they have cultural offices and they're doing very good work here and we're very pleased to have them there. They're in a - they're in a relatively - obviously a very secure facility, even though it is Irbil and Irbil is not prone to the kinds of attacks that you're seeing more frequently in other parts of the country. We were very disappointed that this one got through our very tight security service. I can say that the perpetrator of this attack has been detained by our intelligence services and we are investigating the attack, how it happened, in order to make sure that we continue to be vigilant. We have to expect, as we continue to hit ISIS and as we continue to defeat ISIS, that they will try to hurt us again in our capital and in other parts of Kurdistan.

BLITZER: Are you getting weapons, arms, from the United States directly now to your Peshmerga fighters, or do they still have to go through the central government in Baghdad before they reach you? Because, as you know, a lot of members are Congress are upset that it takes a long time, if ever, for some of those weapons to reach your fighters.

[13:25:16] TALABANI: Wolf, this is still a point of frustration for us in Kurdistan. We're fighting this fight, we're leading this fight against ISIL. We've been the most effective force in this fight against ISIL. We are very grateful for the U.S. support. We're grateful for the U.S. air support in our operations. But we are not getting the weapon - the weapons and the ammunitions that we need to continue this fight for a sustained period of time.

I get a feeling that we're being drip fed weapons to be able to fight battle per battle. It still has to go through some process of clearance from Baghdad and there's still a level of complication that in all honesty we've gotten accustomed to. But we're talking about a long-term war against a very violent group and this is going to require more sustained support and more a kind of continued support of heavier weapons, of direct ammunitions.

We've proven our effectiveness in being able to use these weapons. We have defeated ISIS - we continue to defeat ISIS, continually, since the start of this conflict in June and July, but the situation is not to our liking. We do need more weapons.

Remember, Wolf, also, we're in the midst of a financial crisis in Kurdistan. We have a million and a half refugees and IDPs that are seeking refuge in Kurdistan. This is taxing our own government's resources. We're providing health care, education, all kinds of services to these IDPs. Baghdad is still not providing us our full entitlement of the federal budget. So our brave soldiers that are currently on the front lines fighting against ISIL have not been paid two months of their salaries because of the situation that we're in, because Baghdad hasn't paid us what it should be paying us up until now, and because we have the added burden of fighting a war as well as housing 1.5 million refugees.

BLITZER: Qubad Talabani is the deputy prime minister of the - of Kurdistan. Qubad, thanks very much for joining us. Good luck. We'll stay in close touch with you. Appreciate you joining us.

There have been arrests in the deadly sinking of a migrant ship off the Italian coast. Up next, we'll go live to Italy for the latest on the investigation. Hundreds, hundreds of people are missing and believed dead in the Mediterranean.

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