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DR. DREW

The Love Addicted Killer Shot Six Bullets Into Her Boyfriend, So She Would Not Feel So Bad; A Mormon Mom Is Arrested After Playing Naked Twister With Teens And Her Daughter Is Fighting Back On Social Media; An Elderly Man Faces Jail Time For Sexually Abusing His Wife

Aired April 21, 2015 - 21:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[21:00:07] DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST OF "DR. DREW ON CALL" SHOW: Tonight, the love addicted killer. She shot six bullets into her boyfriend

so she would not feel so bad. And, now her cellmate says she even bragged about it. We will hear from that jailhouse source.

And later, naked twister mom back in the spotlight. Her outraged daughter tweets in her defense. We will get into it but first, let us get

started with "WTF," the story dominating the conversation on Twitter and Facebook.

Was Shayna Hubers terrified of her 29-year-old boyfriend when she shot and killed him to make herself feel better? Or was she a vengeful soon to

be ex-girlfriend? Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHARON HUBERS, SHAYNA HUBERS` MOM: She was sick. She was in pain.

SHAYNA HUBERS, CLAIMS SHE KILLED HER BOYFRIEND IN SELF-DEFENSE: And, it is so painful to watch him die, and to know that I had done that.

SHARON HUBERS: She was hysterical, terrified and shock.

SHAYNA HUBERS: I killed my boyfriend in self-defense.

SUSAN KRISKO, ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: What did she say to her friend right after she called Ryan Poston an evil person?

BILL BIRKENHAUER, HIGHLAND HEIGHTS POLICE CHIEF: She said when she goes to the shooting range with Ryan tonight, she wants to turn around,

shoot and kill him, and play like an accident.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE 911 OPERATOR: Are you sure that he is dead?

SHAYNA HUBERS: Yes. He is dead, ma`am. He is completely dead.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Joining us Anahita Sedaghatfar, attorney, lead counsel to the Cochran firm, Spirit, Psychotherapist, Sam Schacher, Pop Trigger on

Hulu.com. Anahita, the crime scene photos show the blood pool right over the kitchen table where he had been sitting, there it is.

And, then he had slumped over to the side with his legs under the table. They are standing under the table. They are standing under the

table. Clearly, he had been sitting on that chair, hits the table, slumps over. How do you defend that? How do you say that is self-defense?

ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, the defense is arguing, Dr. Drew, unlike you, that that is not clear. That those photos are

inconclusive and in fact they presented an expert witness who testified that there is no way, really, to determine whether or not he was shot while

he was sitting or while he was standing up.

PINSKY: Wait a minute, wait a minute. He was behind a table. How much of a threat could he have been to her behind a table? I am going to

try to come at you from here, it is a little difficult?

SEDAGHATFAR: It is difficult, but again, that is your opinion, you are not the expert --

PINSKY: No, I am trying to get up from the table, it is hard.

SEDAGHATFAR: You are assuming --

PINSKY: If you shot me, I fall down just like he fell down.

SEDAGHATFAR: You are assuming that he was behind the table. I am telling you, the defense expert, he testified today that there is no

definitive way to make that determination. So, they are leaving it up to the jurors to decide.

The jurors can go with the prosecution theory and your theory, apparently, or they can believe the defense perspective or they could just

say that those two expert opinions cancel out and they will use your common sense.

PINSKY: Sam, I like the way she dispatches me, like if the defense special witness or an expert witness says it is so, it is so! I mean your

theory as a human being standing behind the table trying to get up, that is a different matter.

SAMANTHA SCHACER, HOST OF "POP TRIGGER" ON HULU.COM: Right. Yes, and I thought that he was throwing her against the couch, but then of course

the sheriff deputy said that there is no evidence of that. She has no injuries. I mean this is somebody who wanted him dead, Dr. Drew.

And, I am sorry, I do not buy the fact either that she put him out of his misery. I think she wanted him dead. I think she enjoyed killing him,

because she was so pissed off that she lost the control of that relationship, that she was rejected by him and he was dating Miss Ohio.

PINSKY: Well, Miss Ohio -- in fact, Audrey Bolte, took the stand to discuss the date that she made with Ryan Poston. Take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AUDREY BOLTE, MISS OHIO USA 2012: We reconnected through Facebook and then we started texting back and forth and then planned a date to meet up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: And, Ryan was dead by 9:30 the time they were supposed to have met. Sam, there is more video here from Miss Ohio from ABC. What do

you think the impact of her testimony might be on this jury?

SCHACHER: I think that it is going to kind of paint the picture more clearer that this is an act of jealousy. This is somebody who not only saw

her boyfriend slipping away from her. He already broke up with her, but then he already has her replacement. And, she just could not handle it.

I think she wanted to make sure that he was dead, dead, dead, and that is why she did not call 911. The whole idea of her saying, "Oh, I wanted

to put him out of his misery. It made me feel bad." I think that is just her way to hopefully gain sympathy from everybody else.

PINSKY: Oh, no. Oh, Sam, no, no, no. Spirit, I actually think she may have been narcissistic enough to feel as though it is --

SCHACHER: No, that is her idea.

PINSKY: Well -- but I am just going to say -- let me get Spirit`s opinion here, whether she -- you feel, Spirit, A. Whether this new girl

really put her over the edge, and B. Do you think she is sufficiently narcissistic to need to stop her own discomfort at seeing his suffering by

killing him?

SPIRIT CLANTON, PSYCHOLOGIST: Oh, yes, because this is the whole -- like you said, Dr. Drew, she is out of control at this point. This is,

"what do you mean, I am not good? You are going to do what to me? Oh, you have to die, clearly." And, then the idea that she calls the police and

she says I just killed my boyfriend in self-defense.

PINSKY: Yes.

CLANTON: Who says that?

PINSKY: Right.

CLANTON: In the heat of the moment, if you are really emotional about a situation.

PINSKY: Right. She had a sort of -- she had it planned out what she was going to say. She knew 911 is going to be part of her defense. And,

Ryan, the gentleman who was killed here, his stepfather and his mother testified about his attempts to break up with Shayna. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAY POSTON, RYAN POSTON`S FATHER: He said, "Dad, it would not work because she knows the people in the building. She can get in my front

door".

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LISA CARTER, RYAN POSTON`S MOTHER: I texted him, she must have fallen in love with the wrong guy, but he would not fall in love with you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Anahita, I would paint -- if I were there, I would suggest that this woman is a stalker, a jodi-esque stalker in fact and that as a

result of this incredible preoccupation with this guy, she could not deal with the fact that he was leaving?

SEDAGHATFAR: Right. That is obviously what the prosecution is trying to establish there. They are trying to establish motive. But, Dr. Drew,

that is why I think in this case, she really needs to take the stand.

Because she is really the only person that can testify what was going on in her mind at that moment. She is the only one that can tell those

jurors, "I reasonably feared for my life." And, you better bet she needs to explain away some of that incriminating evidence --

PINSKY: Another witness -- another witness, who got on the stand was the woman who introduced these two. It is Ryan`s step cousin, who is also

a friend of Shayna. She testified that Shayna, of course, wanted a lot more from this relationship than Ryan wanted. Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARISSA CARLISLE, POSTON`S COUSIN WHO IS ALSO HUBER`S FRIEND: She would not let the relationship end. He was trying to end the relationship

many times, and he was a little too nice about it, because he never really wanted to hurt her feelings. He said to me, "This is getting to be

restraining order level crazy. I am not kidding. You need to talk to her. She sent me 75 texts in the last hour."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHACHER: Wow.

PINSKY: Sam, he was absolutely right. It was restraining order time. She was stalking him. But, I have always told you, co-dependency. He was

too nice. He was too nice.

SCHACHER: Right.

PINSKY: Swift and sure, everybody. If you are trying to break up with somebody, swift and sure. Being co-dependent can be dangerous, and I

have always told you that.

SCHACHER: I know. I know, and I have gotten better at being co- dependent, Dr. Drew. (LAUGHING) OK? Do not worry. But, I do think, you know, this rings really true to Jodi Arias. It is really scary to see the

similarities the more that we investigate into this case.

PINSKY: Yes. Yes.

SCHACHER: But, I also think too that when you look at the mother, the mother clearly enabled her. She cries. She calls her mom at 4:30 in the

morning. Boom! The mother comes over and cuddles her on the couch. Are you 24, or are you 10?

So, this is somebody that is used to getting her way, is used to controlling the situation, is used to manipulating people. And, as soon as

somebody would not allow it anymore like this guy, I just think that she could not handle it.

PINSKY: Well, hold on, Anahita is upset with your conclusions there. The defense attorney wants to speak up here about this lovely young lady.

Well, Shayna Hubers` mom testified that she did not like this dude, Ryan, the boyfriend. We will hear from her.

And, later, if you remember naked twister mom, her daughter is venting tonight. I will share her expletive-laden tweets. Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(POLICE INTERROGATION)

SHAYNA HUBERS: I shot him probably six times. Shot him in the head, he fell onto the ground. He was, like, laying like this. His glasses were

still on. He was twitching some more. I shot him a couple more times after that just to make sure he was dead.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE 911 OPERATOR: You said you shot him a couple more times after that?

SHAYNA HUBERS: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE 911 OPERATOR: How many times did you shoot him total?

SHAYNA HUBERS: I do not know.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE 911 OPERATOR: OK, because he was twitching and you knew he was going to die, so you shot him again?

SHAYNA HUBERS: I had to make sure he was dead, because he was twitching so bad.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: "I had to make sure he was dead because he was twitching so bad. It upset me. I had to kill him, because it was bothering me." Back

with Anahita, Spirit and Sam. Was a 29-year-old attorney a threat to his 21-year-old girlfriend. Shayna Hubers said she killed in self-defense.

Her mother spoke about the first time she met the boyfriend. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHARON HUBERS: I was taken back, he could not look me in the face. I saw some loaded -- loaded guns about. There were two on the loveseat in

the living room.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: She also called the inside of the condo nasty that Poston was living in. So what, Spirit? I mean what is she talking about -- how did

she know the guns were loaded? Anahita, you want to have at this?

SEDAGHATFAR: I would like to have at this --

CLANTON: Me too.

PINSKY: Hang on, let us Spirit first.

SEDAGHATFAR: Thank you, Spirit.

PINSKY: You know, let me ask Spirit, first. I want Spirit first then I want to have at it with Anahita. Go ahead, Spirit.

SEDAGHATFAR: Go ahead.

CLANTON: I want to do something different. I want to be not politically correct for a second.

PINSKY: Please.

CLANTON: Because to hear that is just disgusting, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Yes.

CLANTON: She talks about this man like he is a dog or a horse that she is putting out of his misery.

PINSKY: Yes.

CLANTON: I had to shoot him again and again --

PINSKY: Yes. Yes.

CLANTON: -- because he was twitching so badly.

PINSKY: Yes.

CLANTON: Not I had to pick up the phone and call 911 to get an ambulance because I feel safe now.

PINSKY: Yes.

CLANTON: It is disgusting.

PINSKY: Yes.

CLANTON: And, we are raising a generation of individuals who do not know how to control their emotions.

PINSKY: Yes.

CLANTON: We have overindulged them. They are all about self. We have a whole generation of these narcissistic little babies who cannot

control their emotions. It is disgusting to me. This man lost his life like this.

PINSKY: Yes. I completely agree with you. Counsellor, what is your response?

SEDAGHATFAR: Well, my response is you just saw the mother testifying, but Dr. Drew, the defense is doing exactly what they need to be doing.

And, sadly, unfortunately, that is the art to a certain extent, going to have to put the victim on trial here, because that is what you do in self-

defense cases.

So, that is why her mother is testifying about how she thought he was a creep, how he had loaded guns all over the house. That is why they had a

doctor testify that the victim was taking medications and those medications caused anger. They caused violent outbursts.

PINSKY: What medication? I did not hear about this. Did you know what the medications were? What were they?

SEDAGHATFAR: I am not quite sure. I think they were anti-anxiety medications, but they were --

PINSKY: Anti-anxiety medications do not cause anger.

SEDAGHATFAR: The combination -- hold on, doctor, expert witness.

PINSKY: Counsellor.

SEDAGHATFAR: I think it was the combination of the medications. So - -

PINSKY: Control room, if you can just please get for me what those medications are, we are going to talk about this in a second.

SEDAGHATFAR: Right. I would like to hear that from you.

PINSKY: I will be happy to give it to you. But, here is the deal, this woman is -- I mean think about this. She is obsessed with this guy.

She is stalking this guy. I mean you were the one -- remember Jodi Arias? Do you remember what we used to say about her?

The only difference between this girl and Jodi Arias is Jodi Arias was also a psychopath. She cold-bloodedly planned things. This girl did not

care. All she cared about was how she was feeling and she could not control this guy. She could not prevent him from leaving.

When she saw Miss Ohio, that put her over the top. And, when she was killing him, that made her uncomfortable too. So, she had to kill him all

the way to make her discomfort go away.

SCHACHER: But, Dr. Drew, you do not know that. You are taking what she is saying verbatim. I see way more sinister than that.

PINSKY: Verbatim.

SCHACHER: I am sorry. I do not see her as being like "Oh, my God, he is twitching. I need to put him out of his misery." No! He could have

been begging for his life. She could have been saying, yes you should not have gone out on a date with Miss Ohio. I think she is conjured that whole

story up and hopes to manipulate the jury, anybody around her. So, she is painted as a really sympathetic figure.

PINSKY: Anahita, it is --

CLANTON: How is that sympathetic?

(LAUGHING)

SEDAGHATFAR: I do not see that, Dr. Drew.

SCHACHER: Well, it sounds a lot better --

CLANTON: He is twitching, shoot some more.

SCHACHER: I got you, but it sounds a lot better than saying, "Oh, I could not wait to finish him off because he crossed me."

PINSKY: To me, it is -- Sam, I get what you are saying, but to me -- me too, Spirit. I absolutely agree with you. But, Sam, I get what you are

saying but it sounds insane to me. But, Anahita, it turns out it was Adderall and a short acting benzodiazepine. So, the benzodiazepine would

not cause irritability. The Adderall could, but unlikely, unlikely.

SEDAGHATFAR: What about the combination? What about the combination?

PINSKY: No, no. Well, nah.

SEDAGHATFAR: Well, if that is --

PINSKY: If anything -- if one would take away -- even the Adderall made him agitated. The Xanax would bring him down a bit. Not a great

combination to be on by the way. It kind of worries me that it is kind of a weird combination. Spirit, I do not know how you feel about that. But,

that is -- I wonder what else --

CLANTON: It is interesting. I do not usually hear that.

PINSKY: No.

CLANTON: Yes. I do not usually hear that in combo.

PINSKY: No. I mean I understand why somebody would use that, but it is not a combo that I would consider like desirable or safe per se. If you

are doctor is prescribing it, I am not saying you should not be on it, I am sure your doctor has a good reason for doing it so and be sure to discuss

it with him or her. Now, the 911 operator that Hubers called, she told this woman that she killed Ryan Poston in self-defense. Have a listen.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE 911 OPERATOR: Have you been injured?

SHAYNA HUBERS: I am not injured, ma`am. I was thrown into the side of the couch.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE 911 OPERATOR: So, he slammed you into the couch, but you do not have any injuries?

SHAYNA HUBERS: I do not have any injuries. I was just very frightened. He is a lot bigger than me. He is 6`3", 200 pounds. I am

5`8", 120. And, he picked me up and carried me out of the house.

And, I said "Let me get my things at least, if we are going to break up." And, he would not let me get my things. And when I reached around to

try to get my things, he threw me across the room and I was very startled. I was laying on the floor.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE 911 OPERATOR: OK.

SHAYNA HUBERS: And, I killed him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Now, Anahita. Let me get this straight. Oh, yes! Oh, yes! Oh, yes! They both reached for the gun, the gun, the gun. I think I have

heard that somewhere. She planned this out with her mother before she called 911 operators. Could not she have come up with something better

than they both reached for the gun? I believe that was a movie plot.

SEDAGHATFAR: Right. It is George Clooney.

PINSKY: Yes.

SEDAGHATFAR: Was it in George Clooney movie?

PINSKY: No, it was --

SCHACHER: Chicago.

SEDAGHATFAR: The Chicago.

PINSKY: Richard Gere.

SCHACHER: Richard Gere.

SEDAGHATFAR: Yes, Richard Gere. Excuse me.

PINSKY: Yes.

SEDAGHATFAR: Well, Dr. Drew, here is the thing. First of all, that 911 operator, I do not think it was being very professional. It seemed as

though, she was cross-examining this woman like she was a prosecutor. When that woman just said she killed somebody.

CLANTON: Really?

SEDAGHATFAR: She was cross-examining here. So, I am not comfortable with that? Now, in terms of how is that going to be explained away, well

here is the thing, Dr. Drew. There is more than one difference between this woman and Jodi Arias. I disagree with your prior statement.

PINSKY: Please.

SEDAGHATFAR: This woman called 911. Jodi arias did not do that. And, the defense is going to argue, that the mere fact that she did call

911, that works to her favor. She did not try to clean up the crime scene. She did not try to discard the gun like Jodi Arias did.

And, perhaps, you know, most importantly, her story never changed from that 911 call to the police interrogation. Her story has remained

consistent. That works to her favor. And, we know, Jodi Arias, your favorite person, Dr. Drew, she changed her story three or four times.

PINSKY: Yes.

SEDAGHATFAR: First, she did not know what happened, then it was masked ninjas and then it was self-defense.

PINSKY: Yes. But, you are making -- In an interesting way, you are making my case for me. I think Spirit, you can speak to that. And, what

we are talking about sort of borderline process, which is what this lady has, which she cannot tolerate. She clings and she cannot tolerate people

leaving and she has unrestrained rage and dysregulation as oppose to Jodi who was sinister and hiding and lying and manipulating and BS`ing

everybody.

SEDAGHATFAR: Right.

PINSKY: Spirit what do you think?

CLANTON: Yes. And, I think, you know, she kept wanting to get back into the situation. Because, as she said, we are outside, then how do we

wind up back in the house. At least let me get my things. Let me go back into the place where I do not feel safe with you.

PINSKY: Yes.

CLANTON: It just does not make sense. And, I also thought the 911 operator was a little unprofessional but for a different reason. I felt

that she was leading her.

PINSKY: Yes.

SEDAGHATFAR: Yes.

CLANTON: Because when she said, you know, she tossed me against the couch. The 911 operator said, "What? He slammed you against the couch?"

That sounds much more aggressive in tone. So, there was a lot there that was just really questionable.

SEDAGHATFAR: Right.

PINSKY: Well, next, Shayna Hubers` former cellmate said she, in fact, bragged about the killing and compared herself to Einstein. That sounds

like Jodi-esque as well.

And, later, a Mormon lady, Mormon mom plays naked twister at her daughter`s teen party. Now, the angry daughter is venting on Twitter. Oh,

that is not naked twister though. We are back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: From February through October 2012, investigators say they have reviewed over 50,000 text messages between these two.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST OF "NANCY GRACE MYSTERIES": "I need some time to myself" - Ryan Poston. "I will be by later to get some bath items and

head to the Marriott" - Shayna Hubers.

Why does she have to all the way back over there to pick up some soap? I would tell her to go get her shampoo, her herbal essence down at the

dollar general.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Nancy. Back with Anahita, Spirit and Sam. Does Shayna Hubers remind anyone else besides me of Jodi Arias. Anahita, last week you

insisted these cases are not even similar. I am going to -- I am going to play your tape. Here we go.

SEDAGHATFAR: Sure.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEDAGHATFAR: There are all these comparisons between this case and the Jodi Arias case. This is not Jodi Arias, part two. In fact, I think

there are so many differences between the two cases.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: I want to also -- Keeping the Jodi Arias parallels in mind, when you listen to Shayna`s jail mate, Cecily Miller, keep Jodi in mind

here, watch this.

SEDAGHATFAR: OK.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CECILY MILLER, SHAYNA HUBERS` JAIL MATE: She said that she was going to plead insanity. But then she said that she was too smart because she

has an IQ of Einstein. And, so she was going to plead the wife-battered syndrome.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Now, Anahita, I know you will take apart any jail mate testimony. Aside from that, do not you see the Jodi-esque qualities here?

I mean Spirit and I see the personality similarities.

SEDAGHATFAR: Right.

PINSKY: You do not see that?

SEDAGHATFAR: I see that because Jodi Arias, apparently, thought she could outsmart everybody but the difference is --

PINSKY: That is one thing. That is one thing.

SEDAGHATFAR: Right. But the difference is --

PINSKY: Stalking also.

(LAUGHING)

SEDAGHATFAR: Well, the difference is this girl was actually educated. She completed college in a few years. She was getting her master`s degree,

Dr. Drew. So, there is a difference there and you better bet the defense discredit the those witnesses. Number one, they are felons. Number two, I

am sure that they got some type of plea deal or some type of benefit by testifying.

PINSKY: I understand. I understand.

SEDAGHATFAR: So, it is difficult to see what --

PINSKY: I understand, counselor. Sam, what do you say?

SCHACHER: Dr. Drew, you also forgot to add the fact that what set them both over the edge? With Jodi Arias, we know it was the same thing

that Travis did not want to be with her.

PINSKY: Yes. And, there was a new girl.

SCHACHER: And, he was going to Cabo.

PINSKY: Yes, he was going to Cabo with a new girl.

SCHACHER: And there was a new girl. He was going to Cabo. So, what happened here? Again, he did not want to be with Shayna, and he was going

out with Miss Ohio. Then she finds out. "Oh, my Gosh! It is Miss Ohio."

Can you imagine the rage that she must have experienced? Can you imagine the rage that she must be experiencing in the courtroom when Miss

Ohio walks right in? I bet she is seething, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: We have footage of Miss Ohio from ABC, and there she is testifying on the stand as well. I see you, Spirit, nodding your head,

"Oh, yes, that is reasonable especially with somebody with uncontrolled rage like this."

CLANTON: It is absolutely losing control. And, the idea that he could get someone, at least in her mind, that could even be competition for

her, if there is such a thing for a narcissist, this was eliminate the threat, and the threat was not Miss Ohio, it was him. You have wronged me,

you must pay the ultimate price and that is your life.

PINSKY: My wife was watching the program and she tweeted something very interesting. I wanted you guys could put it up there. I saw it

during the break. She says, "I am wondering who would shoot someone in self-defense."

I am going to go back to Anahita, Spirit. Sorry, we will leave you behind here. Who would shoot someone in self-defense and then put them out

of their misery by making sure they were dead? Would not your first desire to be -- to stop the advance, sort of disarm them, to take away the risk,

not to go, "Oh, my God, he is making me upset because he is twitching.

I better make sure he is dead, as opposed to a sane person, a narcissistic person, who would pick up the phone and go, "Oh, my God, we

got to get an ambulance over here. I cannot believe I just had to shoot someone to save my life?"

SCHACHER: Right.

SEDAGHATFAR: You are right about that, Dr. Drew, but a defense expert is going to testify, again. If they are going with the theory that she is

indeed a battered woman, they are going to testify that sometimes when you have PTSD, that you do whatever you need to do to make sure the threat is

gone, in their mind. It is from her own mind-set --

PINSKY: Well, listen, I do not want -- I think you are -- that kind of thinking diminishes the experience of women who are being battered.

Listen, remember, when we used to do that with Jodi and people would go, "Those of us that are battered, would never do this sort of thing. We

would never engaged in this sort of behavior."

SEDAGHATFAR: But that is what the defense will argue.

PINSKY: No, I understand and I understand you are doing your job, Anahita.

SEDAGHATFAR: Right. Thank you.

(LAUGHING)

PINSKY: But this whole thing -- yes, I can tell that you are beginning to cringe even under your own breath here, because it is a

disgusting situation. This is a really sad horrible disgusting situation.

SEDAGHATFAR: It is really disgusting, but there are defenses.

PINSKY: There are defenses and I appreciate you clinging to them, but for goodness sake --

CLANTON: This is not one of them.

PINSKY: Well, no. She has to do her job and I get that, but this is -- I mean there are so many elements of this that are just so awful. I

want to show -- One last thing is the stalking too. And, a friend of Shayna testified that she took pleasure in holding on to this guy is house

key. Take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARISSA CARLISLE, RYAN POSTON`S COUSIN AND SHAYNA HUBERS` FRIEND: I am at his house in Northern Kentucky. Ha, ha, I have had a key for over a

year now. He never asked for it back when we broke up. Lol.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: So, what we are talking about here is someone who is love addicted that is something you can conceive of one way or another, who has

unregulated emotion, who cannot tolerate somebody coming and going, so she has to cling o him. And, when he actually needs to leave, she can tolerate

that leaving.

And, when it becomes clear he is going to leave, and not only leave for somebody that makes her feel envious and diminished. She has to act

out violently on this guy. I had no way want to diminish the reality of domestic violence for so many women. It is a problem in our country.

But looking at cases like this, I think actually diminishes women who actually going through this. Most women, unfortunately, suffer in silence

through this. And, I would say, let us learn from this. The women end up being the object of violence, not the perpetrator of violence more often

than not.

Next up, an elderly man faces jail time for sexually abusing his wife. She had dementia. Could she consent? The jury is deliberating as we

speak.

And, later, a naked mom, playing twister, and she allegedly has sex with a teen boy. Now, her teen daughter is tweeting in her self-defense --

in her defense, rather. We are back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOEL YUNEK, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Did you have any sexual intimacy at all the evening of May 23rd in the new room with Donna?

HENRY RAYHONS, CHARGED WITH THIRD-DEGREE SEXUAL ABUSE TO HER WIFE: No. She was not in any mood to have anything at all.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Henry Rayhons is on trial for third- degree sexual abuse for allegedly having sex with his wife in her nursing home without her consent.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: This guy, I think, is sick.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: One doctor told Mr. Rayhons, "I do not believe her to be capable of consent. So, you may not have sex with her."

ATTY. YUNEK: Doctor, have you ever been asked to make this determination, given someone is cognitive state, can they consent? Have

you ever been asked to do that before?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE DOCTOR: Never.

YUNEK: You loved her?

RAYHONS: I loved her very much.

YUNEK: You are still smitten with her?

RAYHONS: I am still.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with Anahit, Spirit and Sam. And, before we got onto that story, Anahita, I had to share one tweet with you to wrap up the last

story. Here it is, #GoodLookingWomanHaters. "If it was not for @Anahitaseda, all attractive woman arrested would go straight to #DeathRow.

Well, there you go, Anahita.

(LAUGHING)

SEDAGHATFAR: Thank you.

PINSKY: Thanks for preventing all these women from going straight on through without getting a good defense.

SEDAGHATFAR: That is just me doing my job.

PINSKY: All right. Now, we are on to this story you are in fact tweeting about most tonight. Henry Rayhons is accused of sexually abusing

his wife who has dementia. The jury is now deciding his fate. Anahita, one question I have for you to start out with here is, the jury has now

been deliberating for a day and a half.

SEDAGHATFAR: Right.

PINSKY: I thought this would be a very quick, sort of dispatch by the jury quickly and this man will be released. Do you think this day and a

half of deliberation means something?

SEDAGHATFAR: I do not know, Dr. Drew. I agree with you. I thought they could come back and acquit right away. But, it does not necessarily

mean that they are going to convict him. I cannot imagine any jury that would convict this man. He is so sympathetic.

It is heartbreaking him watching him on the stand, and either way, Dr. Drew, they have ruined his life. He is 78 years old. He is lived an

exemplary life. He has not even had a speeding ticket.

And, they are criminally charging him for having sexual relations with his own when there is no evidence of force, no evidence she resisted, no

evidence of abuse. In fact all the evidence showed they were a loving intimate couple. This breaks my heart.

PINSKY: I completely agree with you, Anahita. Spirit, I want to ask you, though. Did this nursing home go too far by telling Mr. Rayhons, he

was unable to have sex with his wife and that she could not render consent?

Given that that physician who you saw on the stand, under oath, said he has never been asked to make that assessment before. Meaning he has no

criteria upon which to make that assessment.

CLANTON: Yes. And, you know, and I get that as well, Dr. Drew. This is what I struggle with too. But, I think that his heart was in the right

place, because he was doing what was in the best interest --

PINSKY: The physician?

CLANTON: Right. He was doing what was in the best interest of the patient. It had nothing to do with the husband. And, so, even though he

did not have the interventions, there were no protocols in place, he was basing his knowledge off what he knew interacting with his patient.

PINSKY: But, he did not say -- the way the story has been told, it is not as though the nursing home staff said, "Hey, old man, stay away from

your wife." They asked the physician, do you reasonably think she could give consent?

The husband disagreed. They have an interaction where -- I mean my question, Spirit is, you know, what is our goal here? Are not we trying to

enhance quality of life for people with chronic illness and aging, which is to allow them freedom of choice for things like what food they like to eat

or how they like to interact with family.

I just think it is really - I understand what is at issue here, we do not want people being abused, of course. Crystal went over the top there

saying the man is sick and the whole thing is a mess. I am sympathetic to that feeling, but for goodness sakes, not this guy, not this situation. Do

you think, Spirit?

CLANTON: No. I do not think so, either, Dr. Drew. And, what we know when we talk about older couples and the power of touch, this is the last

frontier if you will --

PINSKY: Absolutely.

CLANTON: -- for staying connected and staying lucid.

PINSKY: And for having some sort of quality of life and for enhancing affects.

CLANTON: Yes. Yes.

PINSKY: For you know, having some joy, which is an interpersonal thing. Sam, you want to comment?

CLANTON: Yes.

SCHACHER: Yes. This story, Dr. Drew, it breaks my heart. Every time you show that video of him on stand, I imagine my grandfather. I mean,

this guy is already missing his wife, right?

PINSKY: Yes.

SCHACHER: He is already dealing with --

PINSKY: She died. Right.

SCHACHER: Right. He is already mourning his wife. He is dealing with the fear of possibly going to prison. The stress of going to court

every day. It is almost like a witch-hunt. I understand that parameters need to be put in place, but not this case. They are making an example out

of the wrong person. And I think it is absolutely horrific what he has to go through.

PINSKY: I want to play a little bit of the closing arguments here. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ATTY. YUNEK: If the prosecutor is right, and two spouses come home and both are intoxicated, they lack a certain capacity. But, yet they

engage in sexual intercourse. Under this kind of definition, have not they both raped themselves?

SUSAN KRISKO, ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: I certainly hope there are not too many other elderly people out there being victimized because if you

follow Mr. Yunek`s logic, you have just said, "It is open season."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Next up, an attorney for this husband, this older gentleman, gives the jury a stern warning. I will tell you what he said. And, for

all of us, this case is a stern warning, I will tell you why.

And later, a Mormon mom is arrested after playing naked twister with teens. Now, her daughter is fighting back on social media. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAYHONS: She just loved everybody. She loved to talk to everybody. And, everybody loved her.

ATTY. KRISKO: My question is, she did not have the capacity to consent to that, correct?

RAYHONS: I do not know if she had the capacity or not.

ATTY. YUNEK: You loved her?

RAYHONS: I loved her very much.

ATTY. YUNEK: You are still smitten with her?

RAYHONS: I am still.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with Anahita, Spirit, and Sam. Henry Rayhons is accused of sexually abusing his wife because she did not have the ability to render

consent due to render consent due to her dementia.

Anahita, what if this jury ends up being hung? Are they going to have to do this whole thing again and put this poor man and all the money and

expense and needlessness go through this whole thing again?

SEDAGHATFAR: They can do that, Dr. Drew, but I certainly hope they do not. Hopefully, they are watching some of the outrage amongst all of us.

It would be an utter waste of taxpayer dollars. They have ruined this man`s life right now, Dr. Drew.

Either way, whether he gets convicted or not, his reputation is ruined. He is 78 years old. And, in my heart, I truly believe there is no

jury that could convict this man. They just cannot do it in good conscience.

PINSKY: Spirit, I want to show you a tweet from our friend, Crystal Wright, who is apparently watching us right now. She says, she is taking

issue with me saying that she went over the top. There it is, saying, "The husband should not have sex with Alzheimer`s wife who is unable to

consent."

There is a lot packed into that statement. I noticed she did go as far as she did the other night and say that he is sick and predatory. But,

what the issue there is does she have the ability to render consent.

And, in this state, two glasses of wine, you cannot render consent. How do we - We are going to have all come to terms with this. Is it that

we all have to begin preparing for the aging process and set this down in writing somewhere?

CLANTON: Absolutely. You hit the nail on the head, Dr. Drew. Because that is what this is, bottom line. This is a medical issue, not a

legal issue. And, so the clinicians in this country are going to have to come together, as our generations now have larger populations of geriatric

members.

And, we have to decide, listen, as we enter into these homes and start to, you know, have different types of care, different levels of care, what

are we going to do for couples who become separated? How will we manage this issue? Because we are going to see it again and again and again.

PINSKY: And, Sam, I cannot help, Sam but bring up what Mark said, your husband. He was so funny. You asked -- Tell them the story. You

asked him --

SCHACHER: Again?

PINSKY: I am asking you one more time.

SCHACHER: Oh my gosh, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: It is such a good story.

SCHACHER: OK.

PINSKY: Go ahead.

SCHACHER: I texted him and I said, "Hey, if I get dementia are you going to want to still have sex with me? And, he wrote back, "I do not

know. When I get dementia, I will let you know." So, I continued to press him, and I said, "No, really. Like if you are older and you have dementia,

will you want to have sex with me? Will not you be scared if you do not recognize me? And, he said, "Oh, well, then I will get to have sex with

someone that is new and hot all at the same time."

PINSKY: Wait a minute. We have got to frame it the way a guy would say it. What he said was, "You mean I will be having sex with a hot chick

-- a new hot chick every day that I do not know? Fine, perfect. Sign me up for that. Exactly what he said.

(LAUGHING)

SEDAGHATFAR: She was trying to be humble, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Well, maybe. But the point is, all kidding aside, this is a serious issue, we are all aging. Dementia is going to be a much more

common condition, and we need to memorialize how we want to be treated should something like this happen to us.

And, I say quality of life can really be impacted negatively, if we do not maintain our intimate connection with our partners. I spoke to Mr.

Rayhon`s son before the trial started. He spoke about what his dad was going through. Take a listen here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DALE RAYHONS, HENRY RAYHONS` SON: I have a hard time even trying to comprehend what dad is going through right now, watching her progress with

her dementia, moving into a care center, not being able to see her, and then ultimately her death and then being charged with rape.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: What I think here is we should not diminish what it is at issue. We are not suggesting that it is open season on people with

dementia. I am not even suggesting I know what the outcome is going to be here. I want to thank, though, Mr. Rayhon for setting the stage for a

more open conversation about this.

It is, unfortunately, this man is being dragged through this, but the rest of us can now begin to think about these things and hopefully have

these conversations with our family, with our loved ones. And, listen, I am telling you, fill out your directive to physicians, make your wishes

clear.

Next up, naked twister mom. She has an ally. It is her daughter and she is tweeting in her mom`s defense. I am a little sympathetic with the

daughter. I will tell you about it after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Lehnardt played naked twister in the living room, then had sex with an 18-year-old in the bathroom.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEDAGHATFAR: She is an admitted alcoholic. She is an admitted sex addict and I think, Dr. Drew, a lot of this too is her trying to be cool.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: She brought her sex toys out and performed with them in front of the group.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: I treat alcoholics and sex addicts and I know they hurt deeply and they should.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: I do not care if she is an alcoholic. I do not care if she is a sex addict. I do not care if she had

a poor childhood. I do not care. What she did was wrong.

PINSKY: Yes.

MANETTE: She knows it is wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Danine bringing it as always. I am back with Anahita, Spirit, Sam in a segment we call "Seriously?" A mother of five arrested

for hosting a party for teenagers, fueled by alcohol and other substances. Now, the 16-year-old daughter is defending the mom on Twitter, saying,

here, quote, "Yes, my mom was arrested. Yes, she made some mistakes. Yes, she is an alcoholic. Yeah, I messed up too, but nobody deserves this, so

stop!"

Most of the girl`s tweets are in response to criticism of her about her mom. So, I got a ton of questions. Spirit, I have not heard your

thoughts on this case. I mean it is a pretty disastrous situation, but mom is sick. Mom is really ill.

PINSKY: Mom is really ill and I am just wondering what kind of care she is receiving. Clearly, she does not have a sponsor, because the idea

that she even had a party at the house with teenagers tells me she is way off track here, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: In fact, what happened was she got into 12 step after all this disaster, because that is really -- this was her bottom. We are all

witnessing her bottom here. And, it was her sponsor, I think it was her AA sponsor that reported this to the police.

So, there is all kinds of ethical issues here. Anahita, I have spoken to people in the 12-step community who are very ambivalent about this. A

lot of them feel the sponsor should not have done this on her own, that this woman should have been the one to clean up her side of the street when

she was ready.

SEDAGHATFAR: Right. I am kind of torn about it, because I agree that there has to be that confidentiality so that you are encouraging open

dialogue.

PINSKY: Exactly.

SEDAGHATFAR: But kids are involved here, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: I know.

SEDAGHATFAR: So, I think the sponsor did the right thing.

PINSKY: Yes, I was so ambivalent about it.

SEDAGHATFAR: Right.

PINSKY: Now, the police report states that the mother passed out, then woke up to a 16-year-old boy having sex with her. And, then the

daughter reacted as follows on Twitter. Quote, "She was passed out drunk. He was wasted. None of this should have gone public." So, again, Sam, the

fact that it is public is what the daughter is having issue with?

SCHACHER: Could you imagine, Dr. Drew, she is a teenager and this is playing out for the world to see. Can you imagine the attacks that she is

getting not only in school from her own friends, but then also on Twitter and Facebook? I feel really bad for her, and she is trying to, you know,

combat every single tweet and stick up for her mom and you just cannot engage.

I mean I understand that she wants to defend her mother, but at the same time the more you engage, the more they are going to want to have the

last word, the more they are going to want to get under your skin and she is not going to be able to win. She needs help.

PINSKY: It is interesting, Sam. You know, it is easy to get very angry with this mom and to be very concerned about what she did to the

other kids as a result of her alcoholism and her sex addiction, but when you see it through the eyes of her daughter, it looks more sympathetic to

me. I feel very frightened for this daughter having to defend herself in the middle of the mob mentality that is Twitter. Right?

SCHACHER: Yes.

PINSKY: I mean that is awful. She is just a teenager.

SCHACHER: I feel terrible for her. Yes.

PINSKY: And she is having to defend the mom, whose behavior is completely unacceptable and she is being parentalized as a result of that.

I mean this daughter is under unbelievable stress.

SCHACHER: Yes. I really hope that all of the children especially this daughter that they go and they get the necessary help that they need.

A long-term help.

PINSKY: Oh, man.

SCHACHER: And, in the meantime, yes, what this mother did was absolutely disgraceful. But ideally, I just want to see this mom get

sober, get clean, and perhaps she can be a responsible parent one day. One day.

PINSKY: Well, exactly, the next tweet from the daughter says, "Yeah, well, she used to be a great mom." And, Spirit, there is a possibility

here she could be a great mom again. I mean, you and I witnessed beautiful, miraculous recoveries. But man, she is got to really clean

things up.

CLANTON: Absolutely. And, right now, the daughter has to be able to take care of herself, and she does not know how to do that. The prefrontal

cortex, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Yes.

CLANTON: Where is your brain down there tonight in the studio?

PINSKY: Righ. OK. There is the mom there in her mugshot. The brain, what Spirit is talking about is this prefrontal region right here,

which is what comes online or sort of remodelled during adolescence.

And, they are relying on our prefrontal cortex to be super imposed on theirs to help manage these deeper systems. The amygdale and the sort of

motivational systems that young people, that adolescents are so dependent upon, or sort of responsive to. And, this child, when they get

parentalized prematurely, it is problematic for the kids.

I want to read a quick, a note from the mother`s attorney who tells HLN, quote, "She acknowledges engaging in inappropriate behavior due to

alcohol abuse - alcoholism, let us be clear -- And although many of the allegation are exaggerated, she is extremely remorseful."

Well, I hope she is. I hope she is not another Shayna Hubers, who is only interested her own discomfort. Hopefully this is her bottom. I want

to read a quick Facebook post to you. "This mom obviously did something right, with a beautiful and compassionate 16-year-old." So, there is

support for the 16-year-old.

Let us read another one. Sarah in Facebook, "What a hideous memory to have. I would never be able to look my mom in the face, again. It would

ruin our relationship for good."

Give me one more. "At least, letting teens drink while supervised teaches how to handle alcohol in responsible way." I am not going to read

the rest of that one. I do not have time. That is wrong. I am sorry. There is no data that that is a good thing. You can DVR us and watch us at

any time. Test your trivia knowledge with "Keywords," which is up next. It is hosted by Summer Sanders. It is up next. I want to thank you all

for watching. We will keep an eye on the Shayna Hubers`s case.

END