Return to Transcripts main page

CNN NEWSROOM

U.S. and Iran in Yemeni Waters; Tsarnaev Sentencing; Baltimore Suspect Dies; Protests Over Baltimore Death; Blue Bell Yanks Products. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired April 21, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[14:00:05] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf Blitzer, thank you so much. Great to be with you on this Tuesday. I'm Brooke Baldwin. You are watching CNN.

And right now, a confrontation could be taking shape between the United States and Iran. This is all happening off the coast of Yemen where at least nine, nine U.S. war ships are now positioned, along with naval vessels from key U.S. allies, and they're expected to be within eyesight of these Iranian ships within the coming hours. The U.S. allied coalition is mobilizing because they want to block those Iranian ships from delivering arms, delivering weapons to those rebel fighters in Yemen.

Just a reminder here for everyone, the Houthi, that's the rebel group that just forced out the Yemeni president, a president and a government, by the way, backed by the United States, Saudi Arabia, and the UAE, the United Arab Emirates. But these Houthi rebels have an ally as well, Iran. Meaning, the situation in Yemen is quickly becoming this proxy war among these top powers in the Mideast. And the timing of all of this here has the U.S. walking a diplomatic tightrope as those fragile nuclear talks resume today.

Joining me now, retired Navy Lieutenant Commander Jack Liles, military analyst and former navy pilot.

Sir, welcome. Nice to have you on.

JACK LILES, MILITARY ANALYST: Thanks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: So, as we mentioned, we have these U.S. ships -- the U.S. want these seven to nine, we're not quite sure on the number, Iranian vessels heading toward Yemen, right, they want to head them off in the Yemeni waters. And then these coalition forces would then be the ones to potentially board the Iranian vessels. My question to you, you're the expert, then what happens?

LILES: Well, this -- this is all something that's hard to anticipate how this may go down. It's hard for most of us in the Navy or former Navy to imagine the Iranian navy kind of wanting to confront both this coalition force as well as these U.S. Navy ships that are there. The U.S., I would imagine, is not going to allow Iran to deliver any types of weapons to Yemen right now. That's -- that's probably more than what we would call a red line. So I just -- it's hard to imagine the Iranian navy wanting to challenge that level of a force that's going to prevent that from happening. So it's just kind of a --

BALDWIN: Why -- why is it -- why is that difficult to imagine? I mean, why is it tough to, I guess let me take it a step further, and distrust? I mean, right? It's distrust and verify when it comes to Iran.

LILES: It totally is. And we've -- you know, we've seen pallets of first aid gear and food and baby formula and those kind of things that are supposedly being delivered to Yemen by the Iranians but they don't need warships to do that. So this -- the obvious suspicion is that some type of arms. And because of the strategic location of Yemen, because of its place there in the straits going into the Red Sea and out into the Arabian Gulf, the U.S. is just not going to allow some unknown arms delivery to occur in that area, particularly with respect to the types of weapons Iran could pass along to the area.

BALDWIN: So just looking ahead, and a big -- the question -- the question is what would happen? It's hard to imagine, as you keep saying, but what would happen if the Iranians, on board their ships, are hostile?

LILES: I think the U.S. and/or the coalition forces are working through that right now and working through the rules of engagement and what our response might be. It's hard to say. We have quite a deterrent force there, as you can imagine. A carrier battle group, along with all the other coalition ships in the area. It would practically be a suicide mission for the Iranian navy to want to take on that level of a defensive force in the area.

So, again, the logic just has us kind of projecting out that this is going to resolve itself and some way or another Iran's going to flex its muscle a little bit and show that it can sail over to that part of the Arabian Gulf and project power and then probably turn around and go back. It's just hard to say at this point but that's a big force for them to want to take on.

BALDWIN: So is that what you're anticipating, sir, that they would just make a big u-turn? Seriously?

LILES: Possibly. Possibly. It's hard to imagine we would allow those ships to dock in a Yemeni port. So, a stalemate my occur. A turnaround by the Iranians may occur. And probably the last thing I would guess might happen right now is some type of exchange of fire would occur between the Iranian navy and the U.S. Navy or the coalition force. And by all means and measures, it wouldn't even be a fair fight for more than a few minutes.

BALDWIN: All right. Jack Liles, thank you so much.

LILES: Yes.

BALDWIN: We'll be watching it in the Arabian Sea there. Thank you.

LILES: Thank you.

BALDWIN: As we continue, of course, to report on the situation in Yemen, we cannot forget about the growing humanitarian aid crisis there. And you can help. We have our website, our "Impact Your World" website that offers groups who are helping these folks. So just go to cnn.com/impact for more.

[14:05:02] Let's go to Boston where Dzhokhar Tsarnaev is fighting for his life. The younger marathon bomber has been convicted of all those 30 counts against him. And now he is waiting for the same jury to decide whether he will be spending the rest of his life in prison or be put to death. That next phase starts today.

People injured in this bombing and family members of those killed are expected to make up a large portion of the government's case. But the judge warning the jurors not to speculate on what punishment any victim's family might wish, saying, quote, "you have no friends to reward or enemies to punish."

Let's go to Boston, to my colleague Deborah Feyerick, who is watching the second phase of this trial play out there.

And we have it talk about this photo. Really, we saw the courtroom sketch, right, in court today in which you see this younger Tsarnaev, for lack of a better term, flicking off, what was it, a surveillance video, back in his cell in prison.

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's exactly right, he was holding up his middle finger. That was back in July of 2013. And it was introduced by the government. It was not entered into evidence. That's why we're not going to get the original photo right now. But according to the prosecutors, it really shows what they themselves are trying to prove. The prosecution saying, quote, "Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was and is unrepentant, uncaring, untouched by the havoc and sorrow that he created."

Now the prosecution also laying out the criteria which they say Dzhokhar Tsarnaev absolutely meets in terms of being eligible and receiving the death penalty. And they listed it really from the crimes he's now convicted of. They said, "Kill innocents with a bomb? Done. Kill a police officer? Done. Kill a child? Done." Saying all of these were lines that Dzhokhar Tsarnaev crossed.

And so it was interesting to hear the prosecution really going hard at Dzhokhar Tsarnaev. Nothing spared as they said, you know, look, in terms of the people that he murdered, well, they had no time to feel pain, they had no time to be frightened -- or he said, they had time to feel pain, they had time to be frightened, they had no time to say good-bye. And they really made sure that everybody in that jury, Brooke, was -- knew that those four people who did not survive were in that courtroom. They held up huge photos of them smiling when they were at their happiest. All of that taken away. And that's why they're going for the death penalty, Brooke.

BALDWIN: All right. Deborah Feyerick in Boston. Thank you so much, Deb.

We are also today learning how -- a little bit more about Freddie Gray, this 25-year-old man who died a week after he was arrested in Baltimore. May have severed his spine. We'll speak live actually with a spinal cord doctor and Freddie Gray's minister on what we know on that today.

Also, it is a massive recall. Blue Bell ice cream yanking all of its products, all of them, off shelves over listeria contamination. What you need to know there.

And, my goodness, coaches, yes, they're known for outbursts and meltdowns and cursing. But let me tell you, nothing like this. This one coach dropped the f-bomb. You want to know how many times? Seventy-seven times. Seventy-seven in six minutes. See what happened, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:12:48] BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Let's get right to this mystery death of a young man in Baltimore police custody. The autopsy on this 25-year-old is now complete. The names of the officers involved in his arrest, released. But more information has not led, though, to any more clarity as far as how this 25-year-old suspect, Freddie Gray, broke his neck after Baltimore Police arrested him. This was back on April 12th. He died a week later.

Now, as we mentioned a second ago, the department has suspended these six officers with pay. They've released their names, their ages, how long they've been on the force. But officials didn't specify on the reasons why. However, the mayor of Baltimore did tell CNN this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We know that he asked for medical attention. We know that that medical attention was not immediately requested for him. We know that was a mistake.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: That conclusion based on the fact that Gray asked for medical help more than once while being transported in a van. In fact, city and police officials revealed Gray requested his inhaler, his asthma inhaler, at the same time officers called for the van. They also disclosed that Gray was put in leg restraints, but officials say they do not know how or when Gray's spinal cord was severed. And what's more, Gray's autopsy revealed his spinal injury was the only trauma to his body.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER JERRY RODRIGUEZ, BALTIMORE POLICE: There was no physical bodily jury that we saw, nor was it evident in the autopsy of Mr. Gray. None of his limbs were broken.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: CNN has affiliate WJZ has obtained armature video that provides a new, closer angle to Gray's arrest. A warning, the video is tough to watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ah!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED) his leg (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ah!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Walk!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shorty, that was after they Tased him (EXPLETIVE DELETED) like that.

Man, I've been recording. (EXPLETIVE DELETED) I've been recording.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've been recording. What car did they come out of, yo?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He own a bike. (INAUDIBLE) right there. Him right there. He own a bike.

[14:15:02] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got it. Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it, yo.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, they Tase you like that, you wonder why he can't use his legs.

(INAUDIBLE).

(EXPLETIVE DELETED)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ah!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, I need you off the street. Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I sure will.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, I need you off the street.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I sure will.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: With me now, spinal cord expert, Dr. Donald Leslie. He's the medical director at the Shepherd Center, a physical rehabilitation facility there in Atlanta, Georgia.

Doctor, welcome.

DR. DONALD LESLIE, MEDICAL DIRECTOR, SHEPHERD CENTER: Thank you.

BALDWIN: I have been told you do have a monitor, so you -- you are seeing this video of this young man being taken away by police and placed in this van. And when you hear -- and, again, we don't know when the spinal cord injury happened. This is according to police. But when you hear a severing of a spinal cord 80 percent, how much force does it take to have that happen?

LESLIE: I would presume a good bit of force and that the spinal cord and the spine -- you say the spinal cord was severed?

BALDWIN: Eighty percent, yes, sir, according to the attorney.

LESLIE: Eighty percent. I would presume that a great deal of force could be necessary to sever a spinal cord depending on what happened to the vertebral -- the boney elements around the spinal cord.

BALDWIN: So if you were to be pushed or fall, how much force behind that? Can you try explain that a little farther? I'm just trying to understand, when you say a bit of force, give an example.

LESLIE: Right, the -- certainly. The patients that we see that have hyperextension neck injuries when they fall, most typically in the bathroom, possibly, and hit them -- hit their heads, their chin on the bathtub, oftentimes that hyperextends the spine and can injure the cord. Most of our injuries at Shepherd come from automobile injuries.

BALDWIN: Uh-huh. So the fact that when you -- we see in this video, you can hear him almost moaning or wailing and he looks like a ragdoll. I mean to me it look like his legs aren't moving whatsoever as they're putting him in this van. Would that be consistent with some sort of spinal cord injury? Because the other question is, something could have happened in the van.

LESLIE: True, something could have happened in the van. When I saw the video and saw him being picked up, it looked like he did not have full strength of his legs at that time. At least that's what I see when I look at the video for the first time.

BALDWIN: And when you hear that he's asking -- he's apparently saying he couldn't breathe, he's asthmatic, he was asking for an inhaler. He didn't have his inhaler on him. When you have a spinal cord injury, does it restrict -- I don't know if I'm even using the right word -- your trachea? Would that -- would that make it difficult to breathe, or would that area remain unaffected?

LESLIE: Well, the issue is that if you have an injury to the cervical spine, that's where the nerves, which control respiration, are emanating. So if there's a cervical injury that's high enough in the cervical region, you require respiratory assistance. So I'm presuming that that would have been the case. Now, he's asthmatic, so it may well be that, you know, his -- his respiration was compromised despite the fact.

BALDWIN: OK. Forgive me, doctor, I've got to talk to our control room. Somebody's keyed in to my ear so I can't hear the doctor. Can you guys push the button? Hopefully I can hear you now.

LESLIE: Can you now?

BALDWIN: There we go. Forgive me. Live TV, it happens. So can you show me -- I know you brought a vertebrae.

LESLIE: Certainly.

BALDWIN: You brought a spine. Can you show me what you're referencing?

LESLIE: Yes. This is a model of the spine here. And from the top to the bottom, the first seven vertebrae, C-1 through C-7, cervical one through cervical seven, it's at two, three, and four, and maybe three, four, and five. There's a limerick in medical school, c three, four, five keeps the man alive. So if you have an injury high in the cervical area, it can affect your respiration and it can cause paralysis and/or death.

BALDWIN: All right. Dr. Donald Leslie with the Shepherd Spinal Center, thank you so much for showing that to us.

But let's talk more about what's happening in the community in Baltimore. You know this evening, a protest is planned in Baltimore over the death of Freddie Gray and against police brutality and no doubt my next guest will be there. He is Reverend Jamal Bryant. He is the pastor for the Empowerment Temple Church in Baltimore.

Reverend, welcome. Thank you for joining me.

REV. JAMAL BRYANT, PASTOR, EMPOWERMENT TEMPLE: I'm honored to be here. Thank you.

BALDWIN: Can we just begin with the neighborhood? Are you familiar with this neighborhood in which Freddie Gray was taken in?

BRYANT: I am.

BALDWIN: Can you tell me about it?

BRYANT: The neighborhood -- yes, the neighborhood is really something that we really stereotypically don't talk about. They are a community. They are a larger family as a consequence, as you look at the footage, you see that the whole community came out and began really asking questions. They didn't turn a blind eye. This is at 8:48 in the morning and nobody can understand. We're now a week out, and the police still have not filled out in the police report probable cause.

[14:20:16] I went down to that community. The people are righteously in indignation and upset, as they should be because they feel as if their community has been swept under the rug because what you did not say is that the incident took place four blocks away from the police station. They're four blocks away. And so the time lapse that is unaccounted for is inexcusable from the police commissioner and from the mayor of the city of Baltimore. So tonight at 5:00 p.m., the entire community, the real city is coming out to show that we are really upset about what has taken place. BALDWIN: Four blocks away. This is the first I've heard of this

because we've been saying over and over 42 minutes, 42 minutes, that's how long it took for Freddie Gray to get some medical attention.

BRYANT: Right. You're -- right. What happened is, what you're seeing in that footage is the initial arrest. Two blocks away from that, they take Mr. Gray out of the paddy wagon they said to readjust his cuffs. They put him back in, and then we have a lapse in time. Nowhere in the history of respiratory issues has anybody from an asthma attack had their spine severed by 80 percent. It wasn't because of breathing, it was because of malfeasance. And all six of those officers to be put on paid vacation is a further slap in the face, if not a spit in the face, to say that black lives really don't matter. That I'm going to pay you while we're still investigating.

And then to add insult to injury, the police yesterday claimed that Mr. Gray had a knife on him. What is not said is that it was a pocket knife in his pocket that was not seen and he was not wielding it towards the officers or anybody. They had absolutely no reason. What the congressman said last week in the state house is, in fact, it is hunting season for black men in America and that's why there's more outrageous from Sanford, Florida, to Ferguson, Missouri, Staten Island, New York, and now right here in Baltimore.

BALDWIN: I talked to Congressman Hank Johnson (ph). I had him on my show just a couple of days and we talked about that and we also talked -- I pressed him a little bit on how that could be really also a blanket statement that all law enforcement are then considered the hunters. But back to your point, I mean, I understand, I talked to a number of lawyers, and I understand the passion and the frustration in your community. I've talked to a number of people. But at the same time, you know, looking at this from both sides, this is not exactly the best neighborhood in terms of crime. When you look at this young man's background -- and I am not saying this explains anything, but it was lawful for law enforcement, as they approached him and he ran, given facts about the situation, it was lawful in them approaching him and he -- and he ran. Here's my question. Since you do know these community members, what --

BRYANT: Yes.

BALDWIN: What is the reputation? What is -- what is the relationship in this particular community between police and the young people?

BRYANT: Yes. Well, it is very divisive when we have evidence now that this young man is being put in a paddy wagon and they have no charges on him. He was no threat, doing nothing illicit, immoral or illegal. You said describe the community. Nobody described the Columbine community as being crime infested or when the elementary school was shot up in Connecticut, it wasn't based off of a neighborhood. There's a pejorative misperception about African-Americans to assume, albeit negatively, that because it is in fact impoverished and red lined that it's crime infested. This young man was doing absolutely nothing wrong. The police officers were wrong.

BALDWIN: And I'm going to challenge you on that, sir. Forgive me, I'm not -- I'm not trying to be pejorative, I'm just trying to explain the law, because people are asking, well, if he was just walking around the neighborhood and was trying to be taken in by police --

BRYANT: Right.

BALDWIN: It was lawful because of the crime statistics in the neighborhood for them to do so. That was just my only point.

BRYANT: Right, but your -- your premise was on basing -- based off of the neighborhood. What is not discuss is Baltimore has had to pay out over $1.5 million in lawsuits out of court because of the negative police brutalities that they've been inflicting unchecked. And that's part of the reason why the attorney general has got to be sworn in immediately because there needs to be some oversight. Just as Blue Bell ice cream is contaminated, the police force in America is contaminated. If in the last 10 years 1,000 unarmed black men have been killed at the hands of police without there ever being a check or revision, something has to happen.

BALDWIN: I have one of the lead investigators from the "Baltimore Sun" on next hour to describe exactly what they found in reference to your precise point about the settlements and about the police brutality and how it has been a problem in the city of Baltimore. Reverend Jamal Bryant, thank you so much for your time this Tuesday afternoon.

[14:25:02] BRYANT: Thank you for having me.

BALDWIN: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Not taking any more chances, Blue Bell is yanking all of its products from store shelves. They're currently on the market in 23 states. This massive recall comes amid concerns about listeria contamination. The bacteria is already blamed for three deaths. CNN Money correspondent Cristina Alesci joins me now.

I mean it's just nuts to see these pictures and these freezers are totally empty. And I know you think Blue Bell and you think primarily ice cream, but it's everything they make.

CRISTINA ALESCI, CNN MONEY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, they make frozen snacks. They even sell to institutions, like hospitals, now we -- we know. And this is a really unusual step for a company to take to just pull all of its products, right?

BALDWIN: Yes.

ALESCI: And that's because they still don't know how listeria got into its plants. Now this could have been a --

BALDWIN: That's scary.

[14:29:58] ALESCI: Yes, it is really scary. This company thought it had the situation under control. They thought it was just one machine and it only impacted those snacks that I was saying. It was like frozen ice cream sandwiches. Instead it turns out where the -- where the story gets serious is the institutional sales.