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CNN NEWSROOM

Tulsa Sheriff Speaks on Fatal Shooting. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired April 20, 2015 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[10:00:02] ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The sheriff is here in the room. And we've been told we're about just a few seconds away from starting this press conference, Carol.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. As soon as the sheriff gets up there and walks to the podium, of course we'll stop speaking. But one of the controversies swirling around the sheriff is that this reserve deputy was one of his best buddies, right? And he donated a lot of money to his campaign and that's really why he was playing police officer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to thank everybody for coming. I know everyone is anxiously awaiting the comments from Sheriff Stanley Glanz. I want to tell you that Stanley Glanz has been prepped by his staff, he's been kept -- constantly informed of the situation and he will be making comments today.

I do want to tell you that after this event, a little bit later this afternoon, we're going to have a groundbreaking ceremony over at the David L. Moss Criminal Justice Center. That's something the taxpayers have overwhelmingly adopted a tax to help us expand the David L. Moss Criminal Justice Center which is something that we're very glad to have. So I invite you guys to come out and cover that event later today as well.

So with that, I'm going to turn it over to Sheriff Stanley Glanz and if I can let you guys know, we have a bit very busy day planned ahead of us so we're going to go until about 9:30.

Thank you.

SHERIFF STANLEY GLANZ, TULSA COUNTY, OKLAHOMA: Thank you, Shannon. And let me welcome everybody. The last time I had a news conference that was this well attended is when I was chief of detectives at the Tulsa Police Department and we had a businessman, Roger Wheeler, killed in Tulsa out at Southern Hills Golf Club. And just this past year Whitey Bulger was convicted of that crime along with others that were convicted here in Tulsa.

But I'm glad to see everyone here and I want to thank you for coming. I want to recognize Shannon for the job that he's done under these circumstances and Undersheriff Tim Albin, and the entire officers of the Tulsa County Sheriff's Office.

You know, I had a public meeting on Tuesday, April 6th, at the courthouse and no one came. We had two inspectors in here from CALEA, the Commission on Accreditation. They come in specifically to look at our policies and procedures and to see if we're meeting national standards.

This is the seventh time they have come to Tulsa and very rarely has the press ever covered the professionalism that occurs in this agency. And we have an incident where a life was taken and that's the business we're in, is life and deaths occur every day in law enforcement. And it affects everyone in this community. It affects the entire agency that it happens in.

And there's been a lot of things said about the sheriff's office that are untrue. And hopefully I'll be able to answer some of those questions today.

First, I want to speak directly to the Harris family. We are sorry Eric was taken from you. For this I'm sorry that we all were involved and my sympathy goes out to that family. I think it's very important any time a life is lost in our community that we all need to stop and hesitate and say a prayer.

I want to talk about the two deputies involve besides Bob Bates. Through our administrative process, we will review what those officers did and we will take some administrative action. I also want to tell you that this morning I got a call from Jim Finch. He is the SAC, the special agent in charge of the state of Oklahoma. He told me they have -- the FBI has completed their investigation and they found no wrongdoing at the sheriff's office, and of course they look at civil rights violations.

If you have any questions about that investigation, I would refer you to Mr. Finch or Rich Davis who is the local supervisor for the FBI.

I want you to also know that deputies have been reassigned for their own safety. There's been some threats made against them and their families. You know, they have a family and kids and I'm very concerned about their safety. They've been reassigned and -- but they haven't been suspended. But we will take action on that once some of the court cases are resolved with Mr. Bates.

[10:05:12] This office reviews all of its policies on a monthly basis taking each chapter in our records systems and looking at it. I know there's been a lot of concern about lost records. We're trying to locate all of those. Some of those are administrative in nature. And we will provide those records as we find them.

And with that, I'd like to take a few questions.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: There has been a lot said about your personal relationship with Robert Bates. What's the nature of your relationship?

GLANZ: Well, he -- my son had an accident when he was in high school, my oldest son. And my insurance was canceled on my car. And I was referred to Mr. Bates at that time. He became my insurance agent and insured my vehicles and my home for a lot of years. I think that's probably been 25 years ago when I first met Bob. UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Sheriff, is it fair to say that your office

did a poor job of keeping records regarding Bates' training?

GLANZ: Yes, I'm not sure how to answer that. We keep records and those are placed in his personnel file. I think he keeps his own personal records and he's provided a lot of them to the press.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Was it a poor job on the part of your office to not have all the records? Some of them were replaced.

GLANZ: It could have been. Last year we went to the legislature and got a law passed that allows us to destroy records after five years and so a lot of those older records were destroyed.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: For the record, as far as you know, were any of his training records falsified?

GLANZ: No, sir. Not that I'm aware of.

Let me tell you that all of the policies and procedures in this office are signed by myself and reviewed by me. I can change a policy tomorrow if I want to. But what I base all of my policies and procedures are the national standards.

CALEA was here three days after this event occurred. They came and looked at all of our policies and procedures and to see that they meet the national standards. They should be issuing a report probably in the next 30 days. And you're welcome to look at that.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Sheriff, are you looking into whether or not it's possible that the records were falsified?

GLANZ: I don't know how to answer that.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Was there an investigation into that a couple years ago?

GLANZ: There was an investigation that occurred under Sheriff Edwards.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What was the outcome of that?

GLANZ: I'm not sure. I believe that they found that there was no special treatment.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE) record?

GLANZ: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: How many documents are missing, Sheriff? You said that you guys are trying to -- do you have any idea? Is it a year's worth? Or is it --

GLANZ: No, I do not. No.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: OK. Also, you regarded that two other deputies that were seen on the video. You regarded that they were fearing for their own safety possibly and they'll be reassigned.

GLANZ: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The --

GLANZ: They were reassigned right after this.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: They were reassigned.

GLANZ: Yes, ma'am.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: All right. So the review that happened, you all are conducting that now and then will decide what will happen to them administratively?

GLANZ: We're trying to make a decision on that. We have a court case that's evolving charging Mr. Bates with second-degree homicide. They are key witnesses in that event.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: So nothing will happen to them until after that?

GLANZ: I'm not sure.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: OK.

GLANZ: If we'll go ahead and do an internal review or not. Any time we have an incident, we do an incident review of that incident and try to see if there's changes that we can make to improve this office.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: When you saw the -- when you saw the deputies involved, Mr. Harris' family, Stanley, that's one of the things they keep playing again and again that --

GLANZ: Yes, and --

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: -- are upset about that.

GLANZ: Let me talk a little bit about Mr. Harris' brother. When we went to notify him and talk to him about his brother's death, it was recorded. And you have that information. A lot of this information is coming from a plaintiff's attorney that has sued me on several occasions and he's doing that to try to better his cases. And I have a number of cases that he's filed against my office.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you think an outside agency would be a good idea?

GLANZ: The CALEA, the Commission on Accreditation for Law Enforcement Agents --

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: They're not an investigative agency.

GLANZ: Yes, they are. They come in and look at policies and procedures. The FBI has come in and looked at it.

[10:10:02] UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Would it be a good idea for OSBI to come in?

GLANZ: I can ask the OSBI in. But again, on the commission that appoints, that hires and fires the director of that, he's not an outside guy. He's someone that I have direct control and influence over. So why would I ask him to come in?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Sheriff, are you going to release the videotape from the Dollar General parking lot?

GLANZ: I don't know of a video of the Dollar.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: So there's no video from the Dollar General?

GLANZ: Not that I'm aware of. The only video I have is that we've taken and we've released all of those.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Sheriff, I know how hindsight is 20-20. But given what you know now, should Mr. Bates have been out there that day?

GLANZ: Yes, he should have been. He was --

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Why is it necessary for a reserve officer, a reserve deputy to be involved in an undercover sting?

GLANZ: He wasn't involved in the undercover sting. He was there as backup. There were nine deputies at that location. And Bob was one of those. He was a reserve. I have reserve deputies on the SOT team. I have a lot of -- I have two that have worked for AMSA, which is the medical -- they run the ambulance here in town. They go out with us and they're there in case there is an incident like someone's injured and we can provide medical aid specifically.

I have two other deputies that have been on there. One is my attorney and good friend Ruben Davis. He served on the SOT team. And I know Bob's age came up in this investigation as well. Ruben is 70 years old. Ruben felt that he no longer could provide the activities that were required to be on SOT team. He moved to the -- he became a hostage negotiator but now he's even resigned from that. But he still is a reserve deputy.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Sheriff, since you brought up Mr. Davis, is Mr. Davis -- could you confirm that Mr. Davis purchased a tank for the sheriff's office?

GLANZ: Purchased a what?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A tank.

GLANZ: A what? I'm sorry.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A tank.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A tank for the sheriff's office.

GLANZ: A tank. Mr. Davis?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: That's correct.

GLANZ: No, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE) acquire that from Ruben's apartment?

GLANZ: He may have been involved helping us negotiate that. He's an attorney and he volunteers his time to do that.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Sheriff, the attorney for Eric Harris --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Time out. Are you talking about the MRAP?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that what you're talking about?

GLANZ: He was not involved in MRAP. He was involved in a piece of equipment we had probably seven or eight years ago.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What was that?

GLANZ: It was surplus -- it's a armored personnel carrier.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Could you explain how he was involved with that?

GLANZ: Sir?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Could you explain how he was involved with that?

GLANZ: Yes. He helped us on the legal side to make sure that the contract was correct.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Can you talk about how common it is to public citizens to contribute financially?

GLANZ: It's quite common. I have a lot of people that dedicate a lot of time and effort to this office and this community. And I'm not ashamed of that. And we follow the national standards. In fact, I was on the CALEA commission from 2000 to 2005. And I think that we'll be reviewing the national standards for our reserve and age may be an element in that. So we'll look at it in a -- with time to make decisions that are --

COSTELLO: All right. We're going to jump away from this news conference. This is the Tulsa County Sheriff Stanley Glanz answering questions about this terrible shooting that went down, where a man was shot and killed supposedly accidentally by a reserve deputy named Robert Bates.

I want to bring in a law enforcement consultant Tom Verni, he's also a former NYPD detective. I'd also like to bring in CNN legal analyst Sunny Hostin.

Welcome to both of you.

So just in watching a little bit of that news conference, Tom, the sheriff seems very defensive.

TOM VERNI, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE: Yes. Well, I think there's good reason for him to be defensive. There's a lot of big question marks that still haven't been answered yet with this.

COSTELLO: And he keeps saying that, you know, we followed all national standards. Everything is hunky-dory. But it's not.

VERNI: Yes, I mean, there's a -- I don't think the question has been answered about -- we were just talking about the firearm that was used, whether or not that was his personal firearm or --

COSTELLO: Let's go back to this. He's answering a pertinent question now.

VERNI: OK.

GLANZ: He's been to the range several times and he's qualified. And that's documented. So far --

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The gun that he used (INAUDIBLE).

GLANZ: Is he qualified?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: To use that specific gun.

GLANZ: It's something we're still looking at but that'll be part of the administrative review.

LAVANDERA: Sheriff, you guys -- you guys have said that this phenomenon of slips and capture was what led Mr. Bates to confuse a bright yellow taser for a small black handgun. There's a number of experts who have come out since then and said that in a lot of ways this is junk science. Do you still stand by this phenomenon?

[10:15:08] GLANZ: You know, I'm not an expert in that area so I can't speak to it. I know that --

(CROSSTALK)

LAVANDERA: But your department has ruled this out as an excuse --

GLANZ: I know Mr. Bates is going to be tried for a homicide and those facts will come out then.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Sheriff, have you removed the deputies from any other team or a section of your department?

GLANZ: Other than the two that I removed?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Since April 2nd, have you removed any other reserves on any other teams?

GLANZ: No, sir, I have not.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you agree --

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Against Bob Bates, do you agree with the formal charges?

GLANZ: I agree with what the district attorney has done, yes, sir.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE) you and some other members of the sheriff's office (INAUDIBLE) trips to the Bahamas, things of that sort, paid for by Robert Bates. Is that true?

GLANZ: No. Let me say, part of it is true, yes. But I paid for part of it that I went to. And it wasn't just Bates that went with me, it -- or I went with him. The undersheriff was there along with another reserve.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: This is a personal vacation?

GLANZ: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: How many times did you guys --

GLANZ: How many times have I been where? To the Bahamas with Bates? I believe once. I've been twice with the other reserve deputy.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Does that have any influence on your decisions over Bates the fact that you guys have been friends for 25 years?

GLANZ: No, it has not. No.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Sheriff, since --

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Would you go ahead and finish that question, Sheriff? Could you go ahead -- since you were interrupted. Could you go ahead and finish whether that had any influence on you?

GLANZ: It didn't have any influence on me. You know, I could have waived all of those requirements if I felt like it. I have waived a lot of reserves that come over that have been in other law enforcement agencies. It's one of the options.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Does that speak to a larger problem that you can waive all of the requirements, the training requirements?

GLANZ: No. I don't --

COSTELLO: All right. We're going to jump away from this once more. So you heard the sheriff say that Mr. Bates was qualified to be a reserve deputy and that he completely understands still how easy it might be for a police officer to mistake a handgun for a taser.

So just your thoughts on his answers, Tom?

VERNI: Well, again, they clearly do things a little differently in Tulsa than they do in New York. We have a number of volunteer auxiliary police officers here in New York. We have almost 5,000 of them. And they're not armed. They're not armed with a firearm. They're not armed with a taser. They're not even armed with pepper spray. They are armed with batons which they are trained to use, they do wear bullet resistant vests.

And they volunteer their time. They're not -- they got a stipend for their uniform allowance, but they don't get paid. They volunteer four, six, eight hours a day, multiple days of the week to do that job.

COSTELLO: Right.

VERNI: Just as these reserve deputies are doing there but they're not armed. And to be armed, you would have to be -- you would have to equal the training that a full-fledged police officer would have, otherwise you're going to send someone out there with half the training --

COSTELLO: So when the sheriff says that he followed national standards, did he?

VERNI: Well, that remains to be seen. I guess that's going to come out. Whether or not they did follow CALEA standards as far as firearms training and the taser training that concerns me.

COSTELLO: So, Sunny, I found the last part of -- before we broke away, that he went to the Bahamas with this reserve deputy. This reserve deputy was his insurance agent. He knew him for 25 years. This reserve deputy negotiated contracts for heavy duty equipment for the sheriff's department. And you know --

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: As well donated money and equipment.

COSTELLO: Donated money and donated equipment. So it's perhaps difficult to believe that this reserve deputy wasn't serving in the capacity that he was because he was just a good reserve deputy who knew the ins and outs of police work.

HOSTIN: Yes. Yes. And I think that's one of the problems that many people have with this case because, you know, people are saying that he paid to play cop. That is very troubling. I think what's also troubling sort of if you look at the big picture is what are the standards to be used when you have these deputy reserves or in New York the auxiliary police. Clearly the reason why you have auxiliary police and deputy reserves

is because we have a money problem when it comes to law enforcement. And what do you do with that problem? Do you have these volunteers or rather do you try to earmark more money for our law enforcement and do you also try to earmark money for tasers, for less intrusive ways of policing? Do you try to earmark money for more training?

And I think really that's the bigger question because why was he even there in that capacity?

COSTELLO: The other thing that's come out lately, Tom, is Mr. Bates during this incident was using a .357 Smith & Wesson. It was his personal firearm.

VERNI: Yes.

COSTELLO: That can't be normal procedure.

VERNI: I've never heard of that before. Again, maybe that's normal procedure out in Tulsa? But in any police department that I'm aware of, normal training is that they would issue you a firearm. Whatever the standard firearm is that they're using not only on duty but then off-duty weapons as well.

[10:20:07] And to be using your personal firearm while you're in the commission of acting as a deputy and taking police action, I just don't see how that pans out legally.

COSTELLO: On the other hand, Sunny, the sheriff also said that he agreed with the prosecutor that Mr. Bates should be charged with manslaughter. So I don't even know what to make of that at this point.

HOSTIN: I know. And I think, you know, legally this is troubling because police officers are working under a different standard, right, than civilians when you have a civilian shooting. The Supreme Court has made it clear that when you have a police officer-involved shooting there are different standards, like did you fear for your life, dir you fear for the lives of members of the community? And that standard is you're looking at the reasonable police officer.

You're not looking -- one that is trained. You're not looking at the reasonable person. And so how do you prosecute a case like this? If you're the judge, how do you instruct the jury? Was he a police officer with the proper training or was he really a civilian playing Robocop and then he's going to be held to a different standard? And that's why big picture. This is problematic.

Should we even have these kinds of deputy -- deputy reserves or auxiliary police officers working side by side with trained police officers, professionals, during a sting operation? I mean, just saying it is shocking to me. This is not what we expect of law enforcement.

COSTELLO: All right. VERNI: It's a manpower issue, too. Because in a lot of police

departments including the NYPD, which is why they have 4,000 to 5,000 auxiliaries, the NYPD is operating with 6,000 to 7,000 less officers now than they did during the time of 9/11.

COSTELLO: Yes. But the auxiliary --

(CROSSTALK)

VERNI: So they provide the uniform --

COSTELLO: -- officers here do things like parking violations, crowd control.

HOSTIN: Crowd control.

VERNI: Street fairs. Things that are non-enforcement related.

COSTELLO: They don't go on an undercover stings.

VERNI: Absolutely not go on stings, too.

COSTELLO: Right?

VERNI: Yes. That's just not part of -- for the simple fact they're not armed, they're not trained to use some sort of firearm.

COSTELLO: I have to leave it there.

Tom Verni, Sunny Hostin, thanks so much.

I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:25:58] COSTELLO: All right. Let's go back to Tulsa, Oklahoma. The sheriff continuing to get grilled about this terrible incident where a man was shot and killed by a reserve deputy, Robert Bates. Let's listen.

GLANZ: I'm telling you, Mr. Bates is charged with a crime and I can't do anything until there's some resolution to that.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: But you can't make any --

GLANZ: I can make changes --

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: -- until a trial is over?

GLANZ: No. I'm not sure when I can do it.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: OK.

GLANZ: But if I find an error in the program, I can --

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What about having reserve deputies go on undercover operations? Will that continue for now?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We shut down -- we shut down that part of our drug task force until this review.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Would you state that again, please?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have shut down the drug task force until a review of this total event. They are all doing administrative duties right now.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE). If I'm 75 years old, would I have special training?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Without those documents, I don't think we can comment on what training Mr. Bates or others have had.

GLANZ: And let me -- let me say to you. Before this incident occurred, I talked to John Matthews in Dallas. I asked him to come up and look at the sheriff's office and look at our manning levels and some other issues, and I've re-contacted him and he's agreed to come up and look at this incident and all of our reserve program.

And how they help us operate and looking at CALEA, looking at ACA, looking at all the different accreditations we have to see that they're proper. And he has community safety institute. He's done a lot of these investigations. And we're asking him to come up and investigate this entire issue and see how to improve our training and our training records.

Octavia (ph), you have a question.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. In 2012, (INAUDIBLE) part of normal training, employees that didn't comply would be terminated. What happened to that?

GLANZ: I don't know the answer to that.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Sheriff, you think --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hold on. Hold on for a second, guys. We're going to take about three more questions and that's going to be it. It will be about 9:30. The sheriff has got other issues that he has to deal with today. Again, I want to remind you there's going to be a groundbreaking ceremony a little bit later this morning. So three more questions. And can we hold it to questions that maybe --

COSTELLO: All right. We're going to jump out of this news conference again and just review what we've learned so far. This is according to the Sheriff Stanley Glanz. He said that the training records of that reserve deputy, Robert Bates, were not falsified. Glanz also said to the family of victim Eric Harris, quote, "We are sorry Eric was taken from you," and of course he was referencing that shooting death that occurred way back on April 2nd.

The sheriff also said he got a call from the state of Oklahoma this morning saying the FBI has completed its civil rights investigation in the incident and found no wrongdoing with the sheriff's office. The sheriff also said that the two deputies, the two other deputies involved in this shooting have been reassigned for their own safety but they have not been suspended. An investigation is under way in their role in this shooting.

Now the most interesting thing that Sheriff Glanz said because we all thought that Bob -- that Robert Bates, the reserve deputy, mistook his gun for the taser and that's why this suspect was shot and killed. Well, the sheriff was directly asked about that and here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GLANZ: Mr. Harris ran directly towards him or in his area. And when Bob saw the two officers take down Mr. Harris, then he got out and tried to assist. And that's when the fatal shot was made.

[10:30:08] UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Sheriff --

GLANZ: And he -- let me tell you. He wasn't the only one that had his gun in his hand, there were other people --