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CNN NEWSROOM

Iran: No Final Deal Unless Sanctions Lifted; Walter Scott's Mom Speaks Out; Obama Urges End to Gay "Conversion" Therapy; Sarah Thomas is NFL's First Full-Time Female Ref. 10:30-11a ET

Aired April 9, 2015 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:32:32] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: The White House appears to be mocking Israel via Twitter. Take a look at this. This is a tweet getting a lot of attention online. It was sent out by the White House on Wednesday. And it shows a cartoon diagram of a bomb. It's all part of an attempt to try and sell the ongoing nuclear deal with Iran. If that cartoon bomb looks familiar, that's because it kind of is.

Remember this? This is Prime Minister Netanyahu addressing the United Nations back in 2012. Netanyahu has slammed negotiations for not going far enough. In the meantime Iran says an agreement isn't a done deal yet.

So what gives? Let's bring in CNN senior international correspondent Nic Robertson. Hi -- Nic?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey -- Carol.

Well today was national nuclear day in Iran and it really gave Iran's leaders a chance to sort of vent their position, if you will, over the state of the agreement that's been made so far. The framework agreement agreed last week in Switzerland. But we heard today from President Rouhani of Iran saying right now that Iran is not going to sign up to this deal in the end if it doesn't get full and complete sanctions relief

Of course, the sanctions that are on Iran at the moment, there are many of them. They are different. They are sanctions from individual countries, sanctions from the U.N., sanctions from the United States, sanctions from the European Union. So the range of sanctions are very complex on Iran right now.

We heard as well from the Supreme Leader in Iran, Ayatollah Khamenei as well saying that as far as he's concerned, this deal can work and maybe it won't work. He's very, very sort of open at the moment -- not much less than a ringing endorsement.

Secretary of State John Kerry, however, points out that that the coming months until that final agreement has been made by the 30th of June -- the final months are going to be the tough months for talks. This is what he said. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KERRY, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: It's going to take more work, but it may also be that the hardest part is behind us because the framework has really crossed the barrier, if you will. But the details are going to be tough, and coming down to the last comma, the last crossed t, I'm confident will be probably as difficult as the last couple days were in the framework.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTSON: So the details were tough. The last couple of days of the framework were tough, too. But it does seem that the Iranian leadership is setting up in the next few months to be very tough talks as well -- Carol.

[10:35:03] COSTELLO: All right. Nic Robertson, reporting live from Saudi Arabia -- thank you so much.

To South Carolina now: for the mother of Walter Scott, the tragedy of losing her son made very public by that graphic video that you've seen many times. She talked with Anderson Cooper about how she learned of her son's death and seeing it on tape.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: So how are you holding up?

JUDY SCOTT, MOTHER OF WALTER SCOTT: The lord is my strength. He's helping me to hold on.

COOPER: That's what's keeping you going right now?

SCOTT: Yes, knowing God as my personal savior.

COOPER: When did you get the news about your son?

SCOTT: It was Saturday.

COOPER: What did you hear? What did they tell you?

SCOTT: Really my elder son is the one that told me. I heard nothing from the police or anyone.

COOPER: And when you were told that the police were saying there had been a scuffle that your son had fought for the Taser, did that sound believable to you?

SCOTT: I knew that that was not true because he knows how, especially the North Charleston policemen conduct themselves. He would never jeopardize his life.

COOPER: He would not have done something like that.

SCOTT: No, he would not have done it.

COOPER: So when did you learn that there was a videotape?

SCOTT: It was the next day.

COOPER: So when you finally saw it, I can't imagine what went through your mind.

SCOTT: I couldn't really watch the whole tape. When I saw my son running and I saw the policeman behind him, I couldn't take it. I had to turn away. I couldn't handle it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: We have decided to limit our use of that cell phone video, you know, the video that Walter Scott's mother is talking about, about her son being shot to death. You will see it in our reporter's taped stories. But from here on out you will only see still shots from that video in order to help us explain the story to you.

More frequently, though, citizen journalists are capturing violent disturbing images that go viral, and this isn't the first time a judgment call must be made about how widely these kinds of images should be shown.

There's the video that surfaced of the Michael Brown shooting in Ferguson, Missouri, for example, and one of the first viral videos of this kind, the 1991 police beating of Rodney King. And it seared into the minds of Americans that sparked the L.A. riots that left 53 people dead and thousands injuries.

Here to talk about the ethical balance between sharing these videos and showing sensitivity towards victims is CNN senior media correspondent Brian Stelter. Thanks for coming in.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Thank you.

COSTELLO: So has there been discussion within CNN about how often we should show the video of Walter Scott's death?

STELTER: There sure has. Here at CNN and other television networks as well in the days ever since this video came out and even in the hours when it came out, it was originally obtained by the "New York Times" in a local newspaper there. They put that video into context but did not look away from how disturbing it was. And then we saw it wallpapered really across television news in the hours since.

And I do think, Carol, this is probably harder than just about any other question in television journalism. You know, my instinct that wallpapering the video, playing it over and over again, eventually does become exploitative, eventually does cross the line. But the videos are inherently newsworthy. And the keyword is eventually. How much is too much? Like so many things, it's about the --

COSTELLO: The other problem is, you know, the more often you show the image, the power in seeing that image diminishes. STELTER: You're talking about desensitizing.

COSTELLO: It becomes less -- desensitizing. And I think that's a problem.

STELTER: That came up as early in this era of citizen video as the Rodney King case. Because there was talk back then even about that video desensitizing the jury because it was shown so many times, so many times. Now, of course, that kind of video is so much more widely possible.

And it does change the balance of power, not just because video exists but because the video exists -- there are different kinds of conversations and different kinds of coverage.

If you look back at the press coverage in Couth Carolina last week end, it was essentially just the police's side of the story. That's oftentimes understandable. For the most part, the police side of the story is accurate. But you see how a video comes out and changes the balance of power in news media coverage, not just because the video exists, but also because of the coverage it generates and the conversation it generates. And we don't have to replay the video dozens of times, in order to have those conversations.

COSTELLO: Especially today, because unlike when those Rodney King videos came out -- right. There was no Internet. You can go to the Internet and you can see it over and over and over again.

STELTER: That's the x factor is that the Internet is in some way the superior medium when it comes to videos like this. I think debates and discussions happen best on television.

[10:40:02] But in order to see the video, if you go to the web, you have to click the button and choose to see it. That's a very different way than on television.

You know, it all comes down to that proportionality. It's much more newsworthy in the early hours of a story than it is days later. I have to confess, I was watching the "Today" show this morning at 7:00 in the morning. They played the video, I heard the shots -- it's one of the first things I heard this morning. And I thought OK, a few days now later, it's too much.

COSTELLO: it's too much and we should stop. And I agree. That's why on this show we're not going to show the moving video except within reporter's taped stories as it pertains to the journalistic nature of the story.

STELTER: Yes. But it's awfully tough. And you know, for the viewers at home it will take --

COSTELLO: No -- even on 9/11 it was tough -- right. On 9/11 right -- we had pictures of that. At some point we as journalists had to decide when to stop showing the planes going into the buildings. Should we show the people jumping from the Twin Towers to their deaths? Should we show that? We had to make all of these decisions and they were very difficult decisions.

STELTER: And we have to think about not just adults, but children in the room as well. For children when they see video being played over and over again they might actually perceive it to be happening over and over again. So those are -- that's another example of the ethical calculations that do happen.

But on the other hand, of course, as always -- inherently newsworthy and for us to have blinders on is not necessarily the answer either. That's why I say it's one of the hardest questions in television.

COSTELLO: Brian Stelter -- thanks so much. I appreciate it.

STELTER: Thanks.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM, a transgender teenager kills herself and the tragedy goes viral.

Now the Obama administration is speaking out on a controversial therapy that claims to turn gay people straight. We'll talk about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:45:12] COSTELLO: The White House speaking out after a transgender teen threw herself in front of a tractor-trailer. In a suicide note the 17-year-old said she felt like a girl trapped in a boy's body. She said she had been forced to attend conversion therapy. Now the Obama administration wants to end this controversial therapy that claims to turn gay people straight.

Let's get more now from CNN White House correspondent Michelle Kosinski. Good morning, Michelle.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hey-- Carol.

Yes, that incident prompted this online petition on whitehouse.gov. It's something like 120,000 signatures asking for a law to be dedicated in this teenager's name from Ohio so that nationwide this practice of so-called conversion therapy would be banned.

Now the White House has responded to it. A lengthy response quoting President Obama and written by his senior adviser Valerie Jarrett, basically agreeing with people who think it should be banned. What she said in her statement was this, "The overwhelming scientific evidence demonstrates that conversion therapy, especially when it's practiced on young people is neither medically nor ethically appropriate and can cause substantial harm. As part of our dedication to protecting America's youth, this administration supports efforts to ban the use of conversion therapy for minors."

Now, the petitioners were asking that there be a nationwide law put in place hoping the White House could do something like that. But then the White House isn't going so far as to say that they're going the try to do something nationwide but they're supporting efforts of states to ban conversion therapy.

And that's something that certain states have already done -- California, New Jersey and here in the District of Columbia -- Carol.

COSTELLO: So why is the White House responding to this petition now?

KOSINSKI: Well, it's just gotten to the point that it's gotten so much support. But there also -- there is a certain timing of it. I mean lately the White House has taken steps to try to increase fairness and end discrimination among LGBT people, transgender people who have been having issues in the workplace.

And this week, in fact just yesterday, a federal action -- it was an executive action by the President went into effect that limited discrimination within the federal government and contractors used by the government. They've taken other steps, too. I mean one thing that has gotten attention is that they established a bathroom in one of the buildings here on the White House grounds that could be used by anybody. It's a non-gender specific bathroom.

So they've been taking what action they could but again they're not going so far at this point to say that across the board they're going to try to ban this particular type of therapy -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right, Michelle Kosinski reporting live from the White House -- thank you.

I want to bring in CNN senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen now to talk about these conversion therapies. They've been totally discounted, haven't they?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Indeed they have been -- Carol. The American Psychiatric Association and the American Psychological Association have both weighed in saying that this kind of therapy is a bad idea. They say, first of all, you don't need therapy to change your sexual orientation. Homosexuality is a perfectly normal variation on human sexuality and there is no need to change it. In addition, if you try to change it, you can do real harm.

It makes sense, right? When you tell someone that something that is so intrinsic to them is wrong and needs to change, guess what? You make them feel terrible about themselves or you can make them feel terrible about themselves which is why we see -- you know, we saw the suicide, for example, that happened recently.

So you don't want to be doing therapy to tell someone that something about themselves is bad, something about themselves that they can't change. And science is very clear on that. Your sexual orientation is what it is and it can't be changed.

COSTELLO: So if that is true, why do some states still allow conversion therapy?

COHEN: You know, I think we're going to be seeing more and more of what Michelle just mentioned. She said that two states and the District of Columbia have made it illegal to do this therapy on minors and now more states are introducing such legislation. So I think we're going to see that change in the future.

COSTELLO: All right. Elizabeth Cohen reporting live for us this morning -- thanks so much.

I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:52:48] COSTELLO: A mother of three is making history in the NFL. Let's get all the details from CNN's Andy Scholes. This is pretty exciting.

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS: It certainly is -- Carol. You know, Sarah Thomas -- she's is a wife, a mom of three and now she's the first ever full-time female NFL official. Even though she says she doesn't want to be a trail blazer, Thomas, she truly is. She was the first female to officiate a college football game, first female to officiate a major bowl game. After working her way all the way up through the ranks starting at the high school level nearly 20 years ago, she's finally made it to the NFL.

She was on "Good Morning America" earlier this morning, she said it surely has been quite the adventure.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SARAH THOMAS NFL FIRST FULL-TIME FEMALE OFFICIAL: This has been our journey. This -- it's just not my journey. It's my husband's journey. It's my kids' journey. They keep me humble. I'm a mom and I'm a wife. My husband sometimes says I'm a drill sergeant at home.

I just say this. Don't go out to try to prove somebody wrong. Go and do things whether you're female or male, black or white, just do it because you believe in yourself and you know you're there to do the job.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHOLES: Now, if you see the video of her officiating, she looks much different on the field than she does off. Thomas said, Carol, that when she was working for Conference USA to officiate college games, they asked her to tuck in her hair so that she would fit in with the other officials. She didn't have a problem with that, she said. She did have a problem though with them telling her not to wear makeup. She jokingly said that was crossing the line.

COSTELLO: I so agree with that -- seriously.

SCHOLES: Yes. Carol -- Thomas may not be the only female official in the NFL for long. The NFL said about 15 women are in various stages of the league's development program so we could see some more in the near future.

COSTELLO: So is she going to be actually on the field? Is she a line judge? What's she going to do for the NFL?

SCHOLES: She's going to start as a line judge. Right when you get into the NFL, that's where you start and you can eventually work yourself up to a head official like Ed Hochuli per se. But yes, that's where she's going to start. She'll be on the side line and on the ends.

COSTELLO: I'll be looking for her.

Andy Scholes, thanks so much.

SCHOLES: All right.

COSTELLO: Checking some other top stories for you at 54 minutes past, ISIS is believed to be behind a massive cyberattack at a French TV network. The hacking happened last night. Screens in the NEWSROOM suddenly went blank and the Web site went down. Facebook and Twitter pages then displayed ISIS logos. While no one from ISIS has officially claimed responsibility, officials are calling it cyberterrorism.

[10:55:05] Move over Andrew Jackson. A group lobbying to put a woman on the $20 bill has narrowed down the list to the final four. They are Eleanor Roosevelt, Harriet Tubman, Rosa Parks and Wilma Mankiller. Mankiller, by the way, was a Cherokee chief who received the Medal of Freedom in 1998. The group wants to make the change to mark the 100th anniversary of women getting the right to vote. That milestone occurs in, you guessed it, 2020.

Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello.

"AT THIS HOUR WITH BERMAN AND BOLDUAN" after a break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: He never grabbed the Taser. The only known witness contradicting an officer's account of what happened just before Walter Scott is shot and killed. What will new dash cam video reveal?

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: Looking for clarity, jurors in the Aaron Hernandez murder trial make some new requests to the judge as a new day of deliberations is now under way. Are they closer to a verdict?

BOLDUAN: "We won't surrender to bullying and threats." Iran's president takes a hard line against limiting its nuclear program. What Iran's leader is demanding and how it's flying here in the United States.

BERMAN: Hello everyone. Great to see you today. I'm John Berman.

BOLDUAN: And I'm Kate Bolduan. Thanks for joining us.

At this hour investigators are poring over a key piece of evidence in the shooting death of an unarmed black man by a South Carolina police officer. State investigators are examining dash cam video from the day officer Michael Slager shot and killed Walter Scott.

[11:00:04] Slager has since been charged with murder and fired from the police department.

BERMAN: Now we could get dash-cam video any moment now. While we're waiting, the witness who took --