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NEW DAY SUNDAY

Looters Strike Liberated City of Tikrit; Pope's Message to the World; Netanyahu: Iran Deal Increases Risk of War. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired April 5, 2015 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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[07:00:21] ALISON KOSIK, CNN ANCHOR: New airstrikes in Iraq this morning. The attacks coming as vandals strike in Tikrit, setting fires and looting stores just hours after the city is liberated from ISIS.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Plus, on this Easter Sunday, the pope sends a strong message to the world about terrorism.

KOSIK: And a furious weekend in theaters. A record breaking opening day, the biggest box office take for a film in almost two years.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

KOSIK: Good morning, everyone. I'm Alison Kosik, in for Christi Paul.

BLACKWELL: I'm Victor Blackwell.

That breaking news this morning: we're learning that one of the four gunmen in the terrorist massacre at a university in northeastern Kenya in Africa was the son of a Kenyan government official.

KOSIK: Kenya's interior ministry says he's been identified on as Abdirahim Abdullahi. The bodies of the gunmen were paraded through the streets this weekend.

BLACKWELL: Officials say the shooter's father had reported to security agents that his son had disappeared from home and that he was helping police try to find him when the massacre happened.

You'll remember, 147 people were killed when al Shabaab militants attacked Garissa University College. That was Thursday.

Let's get more from CNN's Soni Methu in Nairobi, Kenya.

Soni, what more do we know about this gunman and his father?

SONI METHU, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we do know, as you said, his name is Abdirahim Abdullahi. And actually, his father reported him as missing to security officials who were, at the moment, when the attack happened, actually looking for him. We do know as well, he is a graduate of Lowe and he was studying here at the University of Nairobi what is behind me, the University of Nairobi.

We do not know much about the other attackers but according to a father who spoke to a local radio station, he said his son blew himself up.

BLACKWELL: Soni, we know some survivors this weekend are being reunited with their families. Can you give us an insight into these reunions?

METHU: Indeed, Victor. Yesterday, more than ten buses carrying 600 students and 50 members of staff left Garissa for various parts of the country. Most of the students in the Garissa University College were actually not from Garissa. So, they were taken back to their homes. Some of them brought here to Nairobi, those families were here in Nairobi.

It was a very cold and wet night. The students and staff members had such a long journey, it's about five hours' drive from Garissa to Nairobi. Their car broke down on the way. It was raining heavily when they got to Nairobi, and it was so emotional for most of these families who looked for their loved ones in mortuaries, that looked for them in hospitals and tried to contact them and couldn't reach them.

And it was such a joy, so emotional to see some of these families reunite with their loved once. However, the number of death speaks by the government, a lot of these families are still saying that -- at least two families that we spoke to are saying that they still cannot trace their loved ones. They have looked for them in hospitals, they have looked for them in the mortuary and they are also looked for them in the various places where the students were dropped off and they still can't trace their loved ones.

They are still identifying bodies at the mortuaries, so we are expecting to go there later on and speak to the families and find out if actually all students have been accounted for as the government says.

BLACKWELL: You know, Soni, I also wonder, you know, we heard the story of Cynthia yesterday who is inside that closet for two days. Do you know? And maybe they haven't said. But do you know if the search of the campus has been complete for possibly any other students who are still hiding?

METHU: As late as yesterday, they were still looking for more students and still mopping up the area of the school, and this is what Kenyans have taken now to tweet and saying 147 number of deaths were given was before the mop-up was completely. The school has been closed indefinitely and heavily guarded. There's a curfew. People are still scared in Garissa. So, there's much we know about that complete such or complete accountability for all of the students, according to what the government is saying.

So, we are hoping that that is it, but there are still students who, according to the Red Cross, was still hiding even after the attack was over. So, there are some families who are saying their students ran away to an unknown place.

[07:05:02] One of the fathers we spoke to still looking for his son say his son probably ran away somewhere or is among the dead but not accounted for.

BLACKWELL: Hopefully, answers will come soon for those families.

Soni Methu for us in Nairobi, thank you.

KOSIK: Chaos also hitting the city of Tikrit in Iraq. ISIS may be gone in Iraq but the celebrations didn't last long. Just hours after forces drove the terror group out of the battle-torn city, looting and lawlessness erupted in the streets. Buildings were set on fire, homes burned to the ground -- all in a city the United States touted as a success.

CNN's Jomana Karadsheh is live in Baghdad with the latest. Jomana, what are you finding now?

JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Alison, as you mentioned, that victory in Tikrit was really seen as this great victory for the Iraqi forces. The first offensive that they carried out and were able to recapture a major population center -- a city that was under ISIS control for nearly a year.

But also as you mentioned in the past few days, we are now hearing reports and allegations that are starting to surface about abuses and violations that have been taking place by these liberating forces. As you recall, the forces were mainly made up of the members of the Iraqi security force police but predominantly of the popular mobilization units. That's an umbrella group that includes some of Iraq's top Shia militias. These are back and train by Iran, and also, a large number of Shia volunteers in that force.

And what we're hearing is, according to senior security official in Tikrit that we spoke to yesterday, he said that he, himself, witness at least 20 houses that were set on fire and 50 businesses, shops that were looted or damaged and set on fire in that city. He described the situation as being out of control, but perhaps more worrying, also reports that are emerging about possible summary executions that may have taken place there.

Our own team, Arwa Damon, and her team in the city right after the recapture of Tikrit did witness what seems to be the aftermath one of those incidents. At this point, we are seeing what seems to be damage control mode by the government here. Also, the leadership of these popular mobilization units trying to move and act fast to change the perception of what is going on in Tikrit.

The prime minister ordering the arrest of any individuals involved in violations. Also, the popular mobilization units when senior commander today telling us that, yes, they acknowledge that some of these violations may be taking place, but they are saying this is a large force and that this is being committed by a small number of people within that force. So they are taking this very seriously.

It's unclear, Alison, at this point, how widespread these violations are, but very important. All eyes are on these forces in Tikrit as they prepare for other part of the country. Also predominantly Sunni, majority Shia forces as the liberator will react how they are received in other areas, Alison.

KOSIK: And we have mentioned how the U.S. declared this as a success. Any word from the U.S. about what's happening there?

KARADSHEH: We haven't heard yet. It's really unclear, Alison. The one concern, I believe for everyone at this point, is how widespread are these abuses that are taking place. As we have heard from the Iraqi officials, investigations are ongoing. They are looking into the situation. We are hearing reports today that security forces may have taken control of the city, more of these popular mobilization units, more of these militias that seem to be out of control pulling out of the city, so everyone would be looking at what happens now. How much damage control is really taking place.

As you mentioned the U.S. did play a part in the fall and liberation of Tikrit with those air strikes as Iraqi forces seem to be stuck, unable to advance. In the final week, they allowed them to make that advance and recapture Tikrit, Alison.

KOSIK: OK. CNN's Jomana Karadsheh, thanks so much. Live from Baghdad.

Victor?

BLACKWELL: All right. CNN military analyst, Major General James "Spider" Marks, we've got you back to talk about Iraq.

And whether this is a one off or not, we will see. Understandably, the concerns about this looting and destruction. But one element of this conversation with a senior Iraqi official stood out in which he said, quote, "No plans were made for what to do with the city after it was liberated from ISIS." An indicator of what is, obviously, a problem, a problem that the U.S. saw after the Iraq war of the last decade.

MAJ. GEN. JAMES "SPIDER" MARKS (RET), CNN MILITARY: Bingo! Victor, you hit it!

The issue always is what we call phase four, the operations that occur after all the kinetics, after the fighting ceases.

[07:10:01] What are you going to do now that you've broken this thing? You know own it. What are you going to do to own it and put it back together?

And so, the fact that the Iraqi security forces were able to take Tikrit is wonderful, it's marvelous. We should celebrate that. But it happened because they were propped up both by the U.S. air power, intelligence, logistics, and longstanding relationship with them, but also because of Iran.

Iran has Shia fighters. They have Quds force advisers. They are side-by-side in terms of getting up next to the Iraqi security forces in terms of how this operation took place.

So, after the liberation, you always see looting. You see the celebration. That needs to be tamped down.

But I think what the real focus, the real focus is, is the Iraqi security force is professional enough to take on the continued requirements of a fight, to establish security back in a country that they want desperately to try to retain? And ISIS, right now, has the upper hand, but the ISF, the Iraqi security forces, are doing a good job right now. But they've got to be able to maintain its professionalism moving forward and seeing the remnants of bad behavior in Tikrit. We'll probably see it again.

BLACKWELL: Does the U.S. have the interest or the credibility, the ability to separate these Shiite militias from the ISIS if they are unhappy with what they do? Or train them to follow the order or the leadership of the U.S. as the ISF is in, some way or another?

MARKS: Victor, the only leverage the United States has right now is a strong relationship with the government in Baghdad and that is longstanding and it's deep and it's trusting.

The challenge that we have right now is that a U.S. forces are not involved in the fight on the ground. We know that. But in order to separate Iraqi forces from advisers and support that's coming from Iran, it's only going take place if the Iraqi forces want that to happen.

And right now, they have demonstrated that they need the help. They turn around. Guess what? The Shia extremists from Iran are there and Quds force are there, and they're available, and they're providing assistance in different forms.

The United States is not physically present to separate that. And until we can convince them in some way it's in their best interest not to embrace Tehran, it's going to continue to happen. That's the larger issue. Clearly, the larger issue is Iranian influence in Iraq and its expansive nature.

BLACKWELL: All right. We'll continue to discuss this and talk about it throughout the morning. Major General James "Spider" Marks, thank you so much.

MARKS: Thanks, Victor. Appreciate it.

KOSIK: The crisis in Yemen claims a U.S. citizen. His cousin told CNN affiliate KPIX that al Labani (ph) left for Yemen two months ago to see his two-and-a-half-year-old daughter and wife who is pregnant. He wanted to bring them back home to California.

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MOHAMMED AL-AZZANI, COUSIN OF U.S. CITIZEN KILLED IN YEMEN: Every time they remember, they name, they just cry. He was pretty worried, he was pretty worried for the past three weeks, and really upsetting and really sad. I touched other families like here. They have some American relatives back in Yemen and they don't know what to do.

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KOSIK: According to the Red Cross, more than 500 people have been killed in the latest conflict.

BLACKWELL: The closing arguments begin tomorrow in the marathon bombing trial in Boston. But coming up, a new report on the manhunt for the suspects points a finger at Boston cops for putting the public and other officers in danger.

KOSIK: And massive crowds gather for Easter mass at the Vatican, but the pope's message was not your typical message. He had a message to the world about terrorism.

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[07:17:04] KOSIK: A call to action and a prayer for peace. Pope Francis addressed the faithful this morning and took on the persecution of Christians around the world, citing conflicts in Syria, Iraq and last week's attack on a university in Kenya.

Senior international correspondent Ben Wedeman is live in Vatican City with the details.

Ben, tell us what the pope had to say.

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The pope really went through a long list of conflicts -- just to name a few -- Syria, Iraq, the Holy Land, Libya, Yemen, Nigeria, Sudan, Democratic Republic of Congo, Kenya and the Ukraine. And, of course, it's many of those conflicts where Christians are being killed, are being driven from their homes.

He is particularly concerned about the situation in Iraq and in Syria where we see that ISIS is driving Christians from villages, areas where they have lived for centuries and centuries, going back almost to the first century after the death of Christ. So, certainly this is one of his main concerns.

He did, however, seem to be praising the framework agreement worked out between the United States, its allies and Iraq on the nuclear issue, but definitely the worrying situation around the world not only for Christians, but for everybody is occupying the pontiff's mind as he celebrates this, his third Easter as pope -- Alison.

KOSIK: And as many people there brave the rain, that laundry list of countries, Ben, that he gave really make you realize just how much conflict and violence there is in the world. Hopefully, that list will be shorter next year.

Ben Wedeman live from Vatican City, thanks.

BLACKWELL: All right. Let's talk now more about the pope's message this morning and bring in CNN religion commentator and host of "The Sunday Mass", Father Edward Beck.

Father, good to have you.

FATHER EDWARD BECK, CNN RELIGION COMMENTATOR: Thanks. Happy Easter.

BLACKWELL: To you too.

The pope delivered a mostly somber, but very strong message today. Let's listen to a bit of it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POPE FRANCIS, CATHOLIC CHURCH (through translator): We ask peace above all for beloved Syria and Iraq. That the roar of arms may cease, that peaceful relations may be restored among the various groups which make up those beloved countries. May the international community not stand by before the immense humanitarian tragedy unfolding in these countries, and the drama of the numerous refugees.

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BLACKWELL: So, he also mentioned Kenya, Nigeria, went through Libya, Iraq, Syria, Congo, South Sudan -- a message of so many political arenas around the world.

[07:20:05] Does this separate the pope from other popes of recent history, or is this something that would be expected?

BECK: Well, Victor, it's expected in a message like this to be praying for world peace. Unfortunately, we find ourselves not at peace in so many areas, that the list seems particularly long. But I think, again, put it in the context of what Christians are celebrating right now. We have just gone through what is called the three days.

So, Good Friday is about suffering. It is about somehow finding meaning and suffering and moves us today to Easter. So I think the Easter message of the pope is that even though we are living in this violent world, the prayers for peace continue. The fact is Christian celebrates that Jesus rose from the dead today and was over injustice and over death. So, the pope is really putting it in the context of we can have hope in this, but he is challenging the world community that we have to work together for that. It's not going to happen unless we band together as an international community to help make it happen.

BLACKWELL: I wonder what you took away pope's words about the deal reached for framework with Iran and he said may many being a definitive step for a more secure and fraternal world. Those words stuck out to me.

BECK: Yes, I think so, too. Of course, the pope is as concerned about everybody else about this deal and hoping that it can be a lasting and true one.

Again, we know the prime minister of Israeli was critical of it. Our president in the United States is supportive of it. So, the pope is trying to say, look, we have to give it a chance to see if it works and bring this lasting peace that he is praying for all of the world. Iran is included in that.

It's still somewhat of a tinder box in that we don't know what the future will be there. He is including it in its message.

He went on -- many, many things he prayed about in this Easter message. He even prayed for the victim of drug dealers. So, I mean, he is bringing in everybody who is hurting, who is suffering the passion today and saying, don't lose hope. Today is about resurrection and new life. Let's give it a chance.

BLACKWELL: Traffickers and abusers and many prayers for peace around the world.

Father Edward Beck, thank you so much and again happy Easter again.

BECK: Thank you, Victor. Happy Easter.

BLACKWELL: Alison?

KOSIK: The final four is now the final two. The showdown for the national title is set and some Kentucky fans not too happy about it. Hundreds of Wildcats fans take to the streets, fired up over the loss of their perfect season.

And what will it take to convince Israeli's prime minister to back the Iran nukes deal? A surprising answer from one of the Obama administration's top advisers.

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[07:26:11] BLACKWELL: Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has come out in full force against a framework nuclear deal of the U.S. and Iran. He says it presents a grave danger. We'll hear from Mr. Netanyahu on CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION" at 9:00 a.m. Eastern.

But, first, let's go to CNN's Oren Liebermann. He joins us from Jerusalem now.

What are we likely to hear from the prime minister -- a reinforcement of this message or maybe another angle here?

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I think we expect to hear a reinforcement of this message, as you said. I expect him to reiterate the message he's been pushing the last few weeks, especially in the last few days. And what he has really been doing is strengthen his rhetoric. We have seen him use terms like horrific war and terrible war. He says this nuclear deal increases the risk of all that.

So, I think that will be the message he is pushing today. He knew very well this entire last week was a high profile opportunity to get his message out there, that's because House Speaker John Boehner was here visiting Israeli and visiting Benjamin Netanyahu, and just before that, earlier in the week, it was Senator Mitch McConnell.

So, it was a very high profile opportunity for Netanyahu to get his message out there. And he has called this a bad dealing from the very beginning in these last few days. We've seen him strengthening his rhetoric. Perhaps he'll do the same in just the couple of hours.

He says what the deal should do is not just limit Iran's infrastructure but actually dismantle it, take it apart, take apart their facilities. That's not in the deal, that's one of his biggest complaints about this deal. He also says the lifting of sanctions should be tied to Iran pulling back on its aggression in the region. Again, he says that's a big mistake not putting that in the deal.

Again, in his latest statement, which was on Friday afternoon before the Jewish holiday of Passover here in Israeli, he said the deal needs to include Iran's recognition of the state of Israeli -- Iran recognizing the right of the state of Israeli to exist.

So, he's making some pretty big demands on this deal. Of course, he's not in on the negotiations, so we'll see where that leads. He knows he can't stop this deal. He knows he is not working that well and he doesn't have a particularly great relationship with President Obama. So, he is pushing where he does have friends, where he does have allies and that is with congressional Republicans. That was House Speaker Boehner, that was Senator Mitchell McConnell.

So, I expect him perhaps to talk about some of that relationship and we'll see him over next three months trying to use that relationship to, in any way, he can, influence this deal and try to make sure that it limits Iran, while keeping in mind the security of Israeli. So, Victor, we've seen a lot -- we've seen him talk about this deal a lot the last week. I expect him now to try to keep that conversation going and try to keep his concerns in the spotlight.

BLACKWELL: And the conversation continues at 9:00 a.m. Eastern right here on CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION."

Oren Liebermann, thank you so much.

KOSIK: A new report this morning detailing the police response during the manhunt for the Boston bombing suspects. What investigators say they found has them questioning the actions of officers.

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