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CNN NEWSROOM

Suspect Wrote for Jihadi Magazine; More Details on Gruesome Kenya Massacre; Rescued From Sea After 66 Days; Final Four Tips Off Tomorrow. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired April 3, 2015 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Let's talk about where they were getting some of their information from. They allegedly used the "Anarchist's Cookbook" and Al Qaeda magazine, "Inspire".

I'm going to read something from this -- this is from Dianne Feinstein. She says, "I'm particularly struck that the alleged bombers made use of online bomb-making guides like the 'Anarchist's Cookbook' and 'Inspire' magazine. These documents are not, in my view, protected by the First Amendment and should be removed from the internet.

[09:30:00] What's your reaction, Buck?

BUCK SAXTON, FMR. CIA COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: Well, you can't remove "Inspire" -- removing "Inspire" from the Internet would be counterproductive in a sense because, one, it gives us some ability to get a sense of where they're trying to attack and what their plans are. See, jihadists often tell us what they intend to do and then follow up on it. They want the world to know what their targets are. They want the world to know what some of their tactics, techniques and procedures would be. And so what would you do? You would criminalize "Inspire"? I mean there are people who are counterterrorism research analysts, there are people who are just covering it from a media perspective. So you're never going to be able to really pull it off the Internet and things like "The Anarchist Cookbook" and others, those are tactics that are -- people know, they're very familiar with. You can get them other places, as well. So to criminalize that sort of information or to try to take it off the Internet would be counterproductive because you can't ever actually remove it all from the Internet.

LEMON: Yes, it's -- maybe a while ago we would have been surprised that it's two women, right, that it's women? We've been hearing more and more about women who are becoming radicalized. Do they necessarily fit the profile?

SAXTON: The Islamic state has been asking specifically to have women showing up, not just to be supporters, to be sort of logistics and support staff in a sense for the jihadist army that is the Islamic state, but also to partake actively in operations. They want them to be, in some cases, wives and nurses. They also want them to be front line fighters in some cases because they can use them to deploy suicide vests and get involved in other operational terrorist activities.

So that clarion call to women has been around for quite some time. We've seen the usage of female suicide bombers abroad. Generally speaking, you don't see as many self-radicalized women going -- with these sorts of plots. But, of course, that's just a -- it's just a matter of time and pressure before you have this sort of situation.

LEMON: They've been under surveillance for a while. They've been watching them for a while. You say if these allegations are true that the women were sloppy. Why do you say that?

SAXTON: It seems to me that their willingness to, for example, send a poem to al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, if true, things like that are -- these are the acts of people who, as I said, are sort of obsessive fans of jihad. More than concerned about their operational security. The concerns that they should have about who they're sharing what they want to do with.

I mean if you're reaching out directly to terrorist groups, anyone who reads the newspaper has some awareness of the fact that that could attack -- attract the attention of people who are looking at those groups and trying to figure out what their next plans are. Also with the informant, that's classic for this kind of a case. But they spoke to this informant so openly with so much detail about their operations, shows, again, they weren't well trained but you don't have to be well trained to be very dangerous.

LEMON: I have the magazine up in my office, I intended to bring it down, from 2009 and I read some of the poems. Martyrdom raining down from the sky and those kinds of things. It's really surprising that officials did not know about it. But I've heard that there's so much of it out there, it's hard to track.

SAXTON: It's very hard to track. I mean the jihadist propaganda, especially in the Arab, the Islamic State, is now -- it used to be more of a trickle, now it's fire hose. There's so much of it out there just on Twitter and FaceBook and social media alone, once you add in the other places whether it's popping up. It's become a major component of the overall strategy of global jihad is the cyber jihad.

LEMON: Thank you, Buck.

SAXTON: Thank you.

LEMON: Have a great Easter. Appreciate it.

Still to come, a search is underway for the suspected mastermind of the massacre at a Kenya college. CNN's Christian Purefoy is at the campus with chilling details about what survivors are telling him.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:36:52] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

LEMON: A bit of breaking news and important when it comes to diplomacy here. We're getting word that the Iranian president, Hassan Rouhani, is going to deliver a national address on nuclear talks at 10:00 a.m. Eastern Time, 10:00 a.m. Eastern Time, in Teheran. Again, Iranian President Hassan Rouhani with deliver a national address on nuclear talks. Of course, the U.S. and five other world powers came to an agreement yesterday. Some sort of an agreement, a deal. Some are calling it a tentative deal. The secretary of state, John Kerry, of course, helping to broker that deal, as well.

But 10:00 a.m., 10:00 a.m. Eastern Time we'll take that for you live, the president of Iran, Hassan Rouhani, from Teheran. So make sure you tune in. Just about 20 minutes or so here on CNN.

Meantime, a manhunt is underway right now for the suspected mastermind of the terrifying massacre in Kenya. A $215,000 bounty on the head of this man, Mohammed Mohamud. Traumatized students are leaving Garissa University College for -- they're going home now, one day after al Shabaab militants rampaged through the campus. They slaughtered 147 people there, going from the school's gate to the classroom, to the dorms. Students fled for their lives.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We heard some gunshot and we were sleeping. So it was around, around 5:00. And guys started jumping up and down, running for their lives. But it's unfortunate that where they were going to is where the gunshots were comes from.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: CNN's Christin Purefoy is in the Garissa campus, in the university right now and he joins us with more.

When's the very latest, Christian?

CHRISTIAN PUREFOY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Don, well, it was at 5:00 a.m. yesterday that al Shabaab terrorists went down this small dirt track, killed two policemen at that gate and then drove in to university where over 800 students, Don, were thinking they were just waking up to another normal day.

Now, we don't quite know what went on throughout the day, throughout that siege when security forces came to take out what they say were four militants inside, but we're hearing terrible stories. One of the medics we spoke to said people were made to lie down and they were shot in the back of the head. One woman had to cover herself in blood so that she wasn't killed.

Now, just to say, Don, we are, you know, only a few hundred meters from that gate and it's in definite lockdown. No one's being allowed in. And even from here, you know, there's a sense of detachment about the sheer scale of the mass murder that went on behind those gates, Don.

LEMON: Survivors are saying, Christian, that the gunmen purposely killed the Christians.

PUREFOY: Yes, we're hearing that they went in and, you know, this is a mixed religious, multi-cultural university here. They went in and separated the Muslims from the Christians. They let the Muslims go and they killed the Christians. Now, this is quite typical of al Shabaab modus operandi in this area. They've done it in bus attacks as well before.

[09:40:02] It is really just horrific. But really whatever their religion, Don, people here, they come from across Kenya and families, not just in this community, but from across Kenya, are just stunned and shocked at the news and only really beginning to come to terms with it, Don.

LEMON: Yes, how did -- how did the students and staff escape, Christian?

PUREFOY: Well, you know, unfortunately, so many of them didn't. You know, we are hearing figures of 147 dead but it's estimated that that will go up, Don. They literally had to run for their lives. Some of them, as I said, were shot in their beds while they were still sleeping. But the ones that did manage to escape, the footage of them running out of these gates, climbing over the fence.

The problem, Don, is trying to figure out how to stop the sort of attacks. This university is in sort of northern Kenya. Somalia and -- which is, you know, al Shabaab's stronghold. It is only about a four hours' drive away down some bad roads. Kenya and a multi-national force, plus American drones, are taking on al Shabaab in those areas. But trying to stop them coming across that long, porous border and attacking these soft targets is going to be very difficult, Don.

LEMON: A horrific story. Thank you very much, Christian Purefoy.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, pulled from the sea after spending more than two months adrift. How this sailor managed to survive, next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was running out of water, drinking a pint a day for a very long time, rationing that water. Almost out. Almost out. Finally, God answered my prayer right before I ran out of water.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Let's check your top stories right now. Several U.S. Navy warships are standing guard in the waters off Yemen as Saudi tanks and heavy armor are on the move toward Yemen's border to beef up security there.

[09:45:04] This comes after militants reportedly shot dead a Saudi border guard. Heavy fighting between Houthi rebels and Yemeni forces has killed hundreds of people in the past two weeks.

Indiana Governor Mike Pence has signed an amended version of his state's religious freedom bill into law. He says it ensures businesses cannot use the measure to discriminate against gays and lesbians. Arkansas also tweaked its religious freedom bill to more closely conform to federal law and prevent discrimination. The revised measure also getting the Govenor Asa Hutchinson's signature.

An incredible rescue 200 miles off North Carolina. Watch this. A man lifted to safety after 66 days stranded at sea. 66 days. That dramatic footage seen here. Remarkably the sailor found in good condition.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LOUIS JORDAN, STRANDED AT SEA FOR 66 DAYS: The ocean, to go fishing and my sailbot got capsized. Turned all the way around. And I had broken my shoulder. You see my collarbone here? It's -- it has a big knot in it. Shouldn't be there. So I have this big bruise here and I couldn't repair the mast right away. I had to wait quite a while for the shoulder to heal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Martin Savidge is in Norfolk with more on this incredible account of survival. I'm glad he's OK, but he seems pretty chill, Martin.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPNONDENT: He does. And, of course, that means that there are a lot of questions. The Coast Guard at this point has no reason to doubt the story that he tells. The questions could be around exactly how extreme were the conditions of which he survived. But there appears to be no doubt that he was at sea for perhaps more than two months. He said he left the dock in South Carolina at the end of January to go catch some fish. It turned into a long, drawn out ordeal and even his dad says at one point he thought that his son was dead. Here's more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SAVIDGE (voice-over): An emotional reunion, father and son together for the first time in months. 37-year-old Louis Jordan was lost at sea for 66 days. His sailboat capsized, leaving him drifting far from shore.

FRANK JORDAN, FATHER: There comes a time when you wonder if they can still be out there surviving.

SAVIDGE: Louis speaking out for the first time, recounting how he managed to survive, catching fish with his bare hands and eating it raw, and trapping rainwater.

LOUIS JORDAN: I was running out of water, drinking a pint a day for a very long time, rationing that water. Almost out. Almost out. Finally God answered my prayer right before I ran out of water.

SAVIDGE: Reported missing on January 29th, Jordan set out for a fishing trip when the Coast Guard says his sailboat's mast broke and the electronics gear was damaged during rough weather. But on Thursday, after more than two months at sea with a broken shoulder, his fortunes changed. A German flagged vessel rescued Jordan about 200 miles east of North Carolina's Cape Hatteras. He was medevac-ed to a Virginia hospital and walked inside on his own two feet. Here is the first phone call with his father.

FRANK JORDAN: How are you feeling?

LOUIS JORDAN: I'm doing great now. You know, I couldn't fix it. I couldn't sail back with my boat. I'm so sorry. It's such a big loss.

FRANK JORDAN: Hey, look, you're fine, son. I'm so glad you're alive. We prayed and prayed and we hoped that you were still alive.

LOUIS JORDAN: I was just praying about you, because I was afraid that you guys were crying and sad that I was dead and I wasn't dead.

I was utterly grateful and thankful to the people that rescued me. And I was grateful to God that my parents were not going to be worried about me.

SAVIDGE: An agonizing ordeal for Jordan's family coming to a close.

LOUIS JORDAN: Let's have a hug.

FRANK JORDAN: I love this man. Love him with all my heart.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SAVIDGE (on camera): It is so good to see that reunion. And it is no small feat in being able to survive at sea in the wintertime despite the conditions that he was up against. And it should be pointed out he was very fortunate that the container ship spotted him. He was fortunate that the Coast Guard was there with the helicopter and brought him back to shore. And he had his faith to rely on.

But then there's the name of the vessel that he was sailing on, and many people find this striking. It was called Angel. So some very strong significance there, Don.

LEMON: But he'll take it, I'm sure, and he took it. All right. Thank you, Martin Savidge. Appreciate your reporting.

Still to come, the Final Four. The wait almost over. Andy Scholes is in Indianapolis for the early countdown to the tipoff. Hey, Andy!

[09:50:04] ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Don. Yes, the Final Four shaping up to be a great one. We'll break down the games and hear what the Final Four coaches had to say about what's been a very controversial week here in Indiana.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Final Four set to tip off from Indianapolis this weekend. So far the tournament has been overshadowed by Indiana's controversial religious freedom law. But now that the fix is in, it's time to play the games. Andy Scholes live for us in Indy. It's time to play ball!

SCHOLES: Yes, it certainly is, Don. On the court, this Final Four is shaping up to be probably one of the best we've seen in a very, very long time. And as you said, so far this week, it had kind of been overshadowed by the controversy with the religious freedom law here in Indiana.

Right down the street from where I'm standing here in downtown Indianapolis is the headquarters for the NCAA. Yesterday, the president for the NCAA, Mark Emmert, he held a press conference. And during the press conference, he flat out said is he happy that this controversy is happening this week? Of course not. But he did say that this bill is more important than any basketball tournament and he was glad to see the Indiana legislature working to fix it.

Now, all the head coaches in the Final Four, they released a joint statement earlier this week about the Indiana's religious law. And CNN's Rachel Nichols, she sat down with all of them to discuss the role sports has played in this controversy. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RACHEL NICHOLS, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: How have you seen the power sports effect social change in these moments?

[09:55:03] MIKE KRZYZEWSKI, DUKE HEAD COACH: Well, I think our sport has done the most over the years, especially as far as race relations in that, we're playing in shorts. You see -- are you white, are you African-American, are you Asian, are you -- you know, who are you? And all of a sudden, you're working together, you're sweating together, you're hugging together, you're talking, you're loving, you're fighting.

BO RYAN, WISCONSIN HEAD COACH: We are the front porch. And sometimes we bring light ,positively or negatively, and I think we all agreed that just treat us all equal and that's, in a nutshell, what we're looking for, inclusion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHOLES: And you can see the rest of those interviews and more on "ALL ACCESS AT THE FINAL FOUR", a CNN and Bleacher Report special. That's tomorrow at 2:30 Eastern right here on CNN.

Of course, the Final Four games, they tip off tomorrow night at 6:00 Eastern on our sister network, TBS. It starts off with Michigan State taking on Duke. Then that game will be followed by undefeated Kentucky taking on Wisconsin. That's actually a rematch from a game in last year's Final Four, Don.

Both games should be awesome. Lexington, Kentucky, only three hours from where we are here in Indianapolis so Kentucky's probably going to have a huge fan base here. But that being said, the last team to go undefeated in a season was the Indiana Hoosiers back in 1976. So the locals here in Indianapolis, they don't want to see Kentucky win two games this weekend. They'd much likely see them lose to either Wisconsin or whoever they end up playing in the final game.

But either way, going to be some exciting basketball.

LEMON: Have fun, Andy Scholes. Thank you very much.

Next hour of the CNN NEWSROOM begins right after a break.

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