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Investigators Calling Germanwings Crash Premeditated Murder; Preliminary Iran Deal Reached; Kenya College Terror Attack. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired April 2, 2015 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:30:14] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Bottom of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Huge developments now here on the downing of Germanwings flight 9525. Couple of discoveries here leading investigators now to call this case premeditated murder. This is the first time we have actually heard these words, premeditated murder. It all comes down to what police found inside this co-pilot's home. A search of 27-year-old Andreas Lubitz's tablet computer finding pretty disturbing online search history just days before he took the plane down, including a surging message of suicide. He also apparently searched specifically cockpit doors.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): According to these search terms, the user searched for medical treatment and sought information on methods to commit suicide. On at least one day, the user additionally searched several minutes with search terms relating to cockpit doors and their security measures.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Also on the in the news conference, the flight data recorder that second black box has been found today. Rescue crews or recovery crews dug it out of the side of the mountain. As you can see it's mangled, it is burnt up. At this point in time, investigators are simply hopeful they can extract any kind of information from it.

First, let's go Pamela Brown. She has been working this nonstop there in Germany.

Pam Brown, I know the revelations continue. Can we talk a little bit more about what the prosecutors said about the co-pilot specifically in those final minutes on that plane?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Brooke, the revelations are coming out of here in Dusseldorf, Germany from the prosecutor who works the building behind me as well as in France. We heard from the prosecutor there. And if you put all of this together, the source I spoke to today, the official who are involve in this investigation said that this shows just how premeditated this was. We learned that in the week right before the crash, Lubitz was

searching how to commit suicide and cockpit security measures. And then we learned today from the French prosecutor about certain actions taken in the cockpit in those moments right before the crash. Here's what the French prosecutor had to say about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): On several occasions the pilot must have acted twice to prevent the alarm in the last few minutes of this flight. It was voluntary action which guided the plane towards the mountain, not only losing altitude but reducing the speed of -- to reduce the speed of the plane to prevent the alarm from being triggered. The alarm -- so he was alive until the point of the impact.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So the prosecutor there using some key words, voluntary, deliberate. Officials are hoping, though, that data taken from the flight data recorder recovered today will help them piece together the picture even more whether the plane was on auto pilot or whether Lubitz manned controls all the way down into that mountain, Brooke.

BALDWIN: What about medical treatment? Because we know we heard he had gone to this university of Dusseldorf clinic in recent weeks. But now, you talked to the source close to this investigation saying he was indeed doctor shopping, seeing as many as six doctors in days leading up to taking this plane down.

BROWN: What we learned from an official close to this investigation, Brooke, is that he was depressed in 2009, reported that to Lufthansa and then had a relapsed in late 2014. And apparently, he was going from doctor to doctor trying to seek treatment. He was seeing a sleep specialist because he was having trouble sleeping apparently. He was seeing an eye doctor because he was having vision problems and the eye doctor diagnosed him, as we know, with psychosomatic disorder. And he was seeing a neuropsychologist as well for his psychological issues.

Officials I have been speaking to say it's increasingly clear that he was very afraid that he was going to lose his pilot license because of his medical issues. That's one of the main theories, working theories that investigators are exploring right now, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Pamela Brown in Dusseldorf. Pamela, thank you very much.

Let's talk through some of these developments now with Dr. Randy Knipping, aviation medical specialist and examiner with the FAA and a cognitive behavioral psychotherapist. He is also a former medical support specialist for the transportation safety board, Daniel Rose, aviation attorney and license commercial pilot. And also with me here in New York Les Abend, CNN aviation analyst and Boeing 777 captain.

So gentleman -- Les, starting with you in this revelation here as they have been looking through in his apartment, they found his tablet, and as part of the search and all these searches and the days leading up to the downing of the plane, which by the way, he never deleted his search history which I think is interesting. That he's looking at cockpit door locks. Is this something someone just couple years fresh out of flight school should know how to do that? Why is he searching that?

[15:35:09] LES ABEND, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, there's a routine aspect to cockpit doors. We know, you know, we know it's going to be locked electronically. You know, it's not something that we have constant knowledge of. So he may have been, you know, this is mere speculation, but he may have gone into researching it a little bit more, how could it be disabled electronically, possibly through circuit breaker? I would he would wanted to go and he may have very well done this also. This is goes through his manuals which maybe also electronic as oppose to, you know, just the Internet. But you know, pure speculation on my point.

BALDWIN: OK, maybe reinforcing knowledge.

ABEND: I mean, the cockpit door is just there. It's something that we deal with all the time as part of security measures, so.

BALDWIN: To you. We know, for the first time, hearing premeditated murder. And so, obviously, you think initially this is something that came from within this very disturbed young man. But you're saying that perhaps the airline executives could be held responsible as well. How so?

DANIEL ROSE, AVIATION ATTORNEY: Well, there's certainly precedent for that in Europe where they do tend to look at these accidents more from a criminal point of view than we do here in the U.S. And an example of that would be the midair collision that happened over Germany where a company that provides the air traffic control services, the private company, was held criminally liable including several of their officers, specifically for failing to man the air traffic control offices properly. In other words, there were not enough people - air traffic controllers on duty, systems were shut down.

Other things like that, they were at a manager level. So they didn't focus in on the actual controller who was arguably negligent. They looked at the company as a whole and what procedures they had in place to make sure something like this wouldn't happen. And the same thing could happen here where the courts will look at Germanwings to see what did the executives, what did the management do in order to prevent something like this from happening?

BALDWIN: Because we now know there was documentation going back to 2009 when he took a break from flight training, right, where he was suffering about a severe depression and that documentation and it leaves the question, did Lufthansa look into that? Did they follow up with him, to your point?

ROSE: Sure. I mean, it is red flag. What did they do about it specifically about this red flag? And more importantly, what procedures did they have in place to prevent this from happening including background checks, psyche (INAUDIBLE), which they didn't have, ongoing evaluation of their pilots. And then, you know, at the end of the day, having two - a procedure where he hacked two people in the plane, I mean, aviation safety is built on redundancy. We had two engines, you got two fuel systems, you got two magical systems.

BALDWIN: (INAUDIBLE).

ROSE: People in the cockpit.

BALDWIN: Which we know it's a rule that they changed days after, sadly this happened.

Dr. Knipping, here's something else I'm wondering as we have now learned he searched suicide, he searched how methods of, you know, killing oneself on his tablet that was recovered in his apartment. Again, he never deleted any sort search history. You know, listen, a lot of times you search stuff that you don't actually think you'll carry out. What do you make of that detail?

DR. RANDY KNIPPING, AVIATION MEDICAL SPECIALIST/EXAMINER WITH THE FAA: I mean, I think this really, you know, gives us more evidence as to the state of mind that was operating before this flight. You know, researching medical treatments, suicide, cockpit doors, security measures.

I think what's really alarming about this case is the fact he was doctor shopping. And so many people seemed to know what was going on in this pilot's mind. In Canada, and I believe in Australia, there's mandatory reporting, not in the FAA and not in Europe. And under section 6.5 of aeronautics act, every physician and psychologist in Canada must report a pilot if they believe that that pilot is at risk to the public. And I think the larger debate is at what extent does privacy trump public safety? And I think that's, really, what this case is going to bring to sharp focus.

BALDWIN: I think to Daniel's point, a lot of this is going to be looked into sadly after 150 people have been killed.

Les, what about the second black box? You know, I keep hearing you all say it's the, what on the flight data recorder and why on the cockpit voice recorder. It seems like we, according to these prosecutors, we know a lot of why. What will be going in from in the second black box?

ABEND: Well, you know, usually it goes the other way around. We find the digital flight data recorder.

BALDWIN: Right.

ABEND: And then the cockpit voice recorder supplements it. But now, it is the other way around. That information will be confirmation of one of the things that we have been talking about is did first officer Lubitz dial the mode control panel down and then use the auto pilot to fly into the terrain or did he just say, you know what, this is my last time flying an airplane. Did he disconnect and fly the airplane manually? That may be able to be determined just by virtue of that aspect. [15:40:15] BALDWIN: Final question to both of you and this is

something we are actually talking about on commercial break that I think it is worth bringing it on air. As pilots, if you are in this case, the co-pilot, and the pilot left to use the lab. What immediately do you do as the co-pilot before the pilot leaves?

ABEND: Well, one of the things that we were discussing on break was the fact that the oxygen mask goes on when you have no other pilot at the duty station. Now, there could be somebody else in the cockpit, but nobody else technically at the duty station at that altitude the airplane was at. You put on oxygen mask. And that might be a reference to breathing that we heard which is kind of bizarre to me because here is the man doing something bizarre to me because here is the man, going to do something really bizarre and he leaves on something as a matter of routine to demonstrate to the captain that, hey, I'm following procedures and then, you know, maybe through the descent, he still had the oxygen mask. (INAUDIBLE) on my part.

BALDWIN: To be clear, we don't know if there was an oxygen mask that was placed on him. But what we do know from all these prosecutors and investigators sort of the odd detail, is the fact that what could be heard on the cockpit voice recorder was normal breathing as this plane is descending, normal breathing in the cockpit.

ABEND: And that normal breathing is tough to pick up because of all the air noise.

BALDWIN: It's a loud place in the cockpit.

ABEND: It is a very loud place. A lot of air noise. Lot of weight noise. So I find it difficult that that's what they were actually listening to. It's possible, but I doubt it.

BALDWIN: (INAUDIBLE)

ROSE: It also goes to his state of mind. I mean, for somebody that's going to be committing suicide and killing 150 people, to be sitting there breathing normally --

BALDWIN: As the plane is going (INAUDIBLE).

ROSE: As the plane is going down is just horrific.

BALDWIN: Daniel Rose --

KNIPPING: That was particularly alarming too because, you know, the reality is that I think at the end, this is going to turn into a personality disorder with depression secondarily. You know, people who are depressed do not commit homicide. They commit suicide but not homicide. And this is really starting to get the flavor of a sociopathic or other type of personality disorder.

BALDWIN: Thank you for having Doctor Randy Knipping. My thanks to you as well.

Let's move on and get back to our other breaking story here. This preliminary deal has now been reached on Iran's nuclear program. What it means to the United States, how will members Congress react to that? That's next.

Also ahead, a terror attack on a college campus, 147 people killed, dozens of others hurt. You're watching CNN. Stay right here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:46:49] BALDWIN: We are following breaking news here of this historic understanding with Iran. Those words today from President Barack Obama after the United States and other world powers reached this tentative deal with Iran's over its nuclear program. President Obama spoke from the Rose Garden from White House just this past hour. Here he was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Today, after many months of tough principle diplomacy, we have achieved the framework for that deal. And it is a good deal, a deal that meets our core objectives. This frame work would cut every pathway Iran would take to create a nuclear weapon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: We have more details now. A lot of specifics from the framework that was announced today. Let me run through some of this for you.

It requires Iran to reduce its stock file of low and rich uranium by 98 percent for 15 years and a cut its enrichment by two-thirds for ten years and see how is that with the secretary of state John Kerry says if a final deal is reached, removal of sanctions against Tehran will come in phases.

And while hailing the agreement, as an important step forward, President Obama also which should a stern warning to Congress that if lawmakers arbitrarily kill the deal, U.S. will be blamed for foreign policy failure.

Let's go to my colleague, CNN political commentator and host of "Smerconish," Michael Smerconish with analysis. And let's begin on that spring boarding at the point off Congress. You actually make an interesting point because you say in order to determine how this sits with congress, you have to go to Israel first and see how this sits with the recently re-elected Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Correct. In other words, there's such strong alliance now between Prime Minister Netanyahu and the house leadership here in the United States that I think they'll be lock step on how they respond to this issue. We haven't heard from Prime Minister Netanyahu yet. As you all know, the president said he'll be calling him, but he hasn't called him yet. There is a statement that has been put out already by an Israeli spokesman saying that it is detached from the retched reality, the smiles in Switzerland that accompany the announcement of this agreement. So seemingly, you would expect Prime Minister Netanyahu to continue to be at odds with this agreement. And Brooke, I'd be shocked if he were at odds with it if the house speaker and the Republican House leaders fell into line for the White House, that would for me.

BALDWIN: OK. What about, you know, hearing from (INAUDIBLE) that the foreign minister of Iran and how we know he has said with regards to this deal. It should be a win/win. We know that Iran will not actually stop enriching. We know that there are limits on enrichment at this one facility. But he said, you know, we need to negotiate with dignity. And I'm just wondering if you think both sides are walking away with a win/win?

SMERCONISH: Hard for us to tell until we see the details. The president framed it in pretty stark terms. I was watching his announcement on CNN. I was very surprised with the blunt manner in which he presented it. And he said look, you know, there are three options. Option one is that we negotiate a deal such as we have just done. Option two is we bomb their facility. And option three is we walk away from the table. And the critics of the way in which we have approached this need to be responsive to the question whether we'd rather have a deal such as his negotiating with John Kerry or visit World War III in the Middle East.

[15:50:11] BALDWIN: You hit on this a little bit, but I think one question that I'm seeing is, and there have been fears of Iran cheating. I mean, a lot of times, old Iran still sees United States as the great Satan so the question being as President Obama said the deal is not based on trust but on unprecedented verification, what if, Michael Smerconish, what if Iran cheats?