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CNN NEWSROOM

Second Black Box Found; Terror Attacks at Kenyan University. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired April 2, 2015 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is important, Carol, because this will answer crucial technical questions in this investigation. The transcript of the cockpit voice recorder was leaked earlier. The flight data recorder will help investigators know exactly what was going on technically with the plane at the time of the crash.

[10:00:04] It will help them, for one, rule out that there was any sort of technical issue with the aircraft. And it will also perhaps confirm their suspicion that Andreas Lubitz may have been manually flying the aircraft toward the French Alps in those final moments.

Now also within the last hour or so, some new breaking details about that co-pilot, Andreas Lubitz. This is coming to us from a law enforcement source with close knowledge of this investigation. This source telling CNN that Lubitz was very afraid he would lose his pilot's license. And in fact, after suffering depression back in 2009, a severe episode, he relapsed late last year and was doctor shopping, essentially going from doctor to doctor seeing as many as six of them trying to get help for a vision problem which was believed to be psychosomatic, meaning made worse by his mental state.

He was given "not fit to work" notes by those doctors. Those doctors did not believe that he belonged in a cockpit. However, due to German privacy laws, they were not able to inform the airline directly. That was up to Lubitz. We know that he didn't do that and, in fact, tore up those notes that they were found in his apartment. We also know that he was prescribed heavy depression medication.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Will -- Will, I'm going to interrupt you. I'm going to interrupt you. This is Christoph Kumpa, spokesman for the public prosecutor in Germany.

CHRISTOPH KUMPA, GERMAN PROSECUTOR (Through Translator): Press release of the prosecution together with the police in Dusseldorf have secured documents with data -- we have secured a so-called tablet and analyzed it, personal correspondence and search would show the device was used by the co-pilot from 16th to 23rd of March is recorded on this device. At one day there was some information about the cockpit doors.

We cannot confirm and inform this because of the assessment of the analysis. The documents are comprehensive and we will not be able to inform you about this in the coming days.

Thank you.

COSTELLO: All right. A very short statement from the German prosecutor's office. Let's head back to Will Ripley and help me discern this. I supposed this prosecutor or the spokesperson says they found a tablet, a device, and on this device was information taken from March 16th through the 21st. And somehow in there, and I couldn't quite get all of this, and maybe you could, that there was information on that tablet about cockpit doors and more.

RIPLEY: Which, of course, Carol, is a huge potential lead in this investigation because if it turns out that Andreas Lubitz was researching ways to keep the cockpit door locked and ensure that his pilot could not get back in once locked out, then that would provide evidence that perhaps this was indeed a premeditated act of murder as opposed to the manslaughter investigation that's under way right now.

That's been a big question that we have been following ever since this crash. Was this a spur of the moment action or was it something that had been planned. In Lubitz's apartment, there was no evidence of any radical political views, there was no suicide note. Of course he didn't tell anybody that we know of that he was planning this. But if he was doing research about cockpit doors and ways perhaps to stay locked inside, that would be a huge bombshell in this investigation.

Of course, we don't have the answers. They're saying they won't be able to release that information. But we are on the ground working our sources to try to learn as much as we can, Carol. Was this premeditated? Was it spontaneous? We know it was tragic. But we need to find out exactly what he did, when and why, as investigators try to do what they can. In fact, Germany here, they formed a task force. They're looking at everything to prevent this from ever happening again -- Carol.

COSTELLO: It just gets more horrifying by the day. You stay right there, Will.

I want to bring in Les Abend, he's a pilot. He's our aviation expert here at CNN.

[10:05:03] They found the flight data recorder, the second black box. That's a good thing. That will probably shed more light on perhaps whether this was a premeditated act.

LES ABEND, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: At the end of the day, this is still an accident investigation. So that DFDR, as call the Digital Flight Data Recorder, is an integral part of that investigation. It works in harmony with the cockpit voice recorder that can be put into a program that you can get real-time data. So that's good news.

And for the sake of the families, for the sake of us that want to know, it's completing an accident investigation under the proper guidelines, is the way to go.

COSTELLO: But this flight data recorder, it will tell us whether this guy was manually flying this plane. Right?

ABEND: It will. That's --

COSTELLO: Purposely crashing it.

ABEND: Absolutely.

COSTELLO: We'll determine once and for all, right?

ABEND: It should -- it records hundreds of parameters. And that's one of them that it should record, yes, absolutely.

COSTELLO: OK. I want to head back to Germany and check in with Will Ripley.

CNN has also learned that authorities confiscated some computers from this co-pilot's home, and on the computers, supposedly he was researching suicide.

What do you know about that, Will?

RIPLEY: Well, they're still going through all of the data as they happen exhaustively since they seized those computers and other documents from his house, Carol. Because what they're trying to do as they continue to look into his mental history, they're also trying to figure out, again, any evidence of whether this was premeditated. So exactly what was on the computers, the specifics of that, haven't been officially released.

We don't know all of the details. But, yes, there was suicide, there was research about suicide. We also know that he had actually written himself some notes about his pilot's license and also about depression. We don't know if he was writing these notes as reminders to himself or not. But all of this evidence, and they went through his apartment multiple times, multiple visits and they're poring through everything possible to see he didn't leave much of a footprint. But there is -- they are getting some pieces of information slowly and putting their case together.

COSTELLO: OK. Back to you, Les. So the prosecutor's office also released this information. Supposedly this co-pilot, Andreas Lubitz, was doctor shopping in the days and months previous to this terrible crash, was trying to get some doctor to say he was fit to fly. No doctor would do that. The doctor kept giving him notes, you know, you're not fit to fly. And of course the doctors couldn't share that with the airline itself because that would have been illegal under German law.

Still, this guy worked with pilots. He was in the cockpit for long periods of time with people. You would think somebody would notice, unless this Lubitz was incredibly adept at hiding all the trauma that was happening in his life.

ABEND: You know, Carol, I talked with our correspondent Sanjay Gupta yesterday while not on air, and one of the interesting things was -- you know, it's possible he could have hid it. But I'll tell you what, what I discussed with him was the fact that you spend -- at least me personally I can spend as much as 14 hours with one individual. You learn about his family, you learn various aspects, how he works, how he reacts to certain things.

Even on the layover you spend some time together. So you learn about this person. I cannot believe that in that period of time somebody didn't say, you know, there's something a little off about this guy. Maybe a little bit more than off. And we go back to the usual screening process. He didn't just develop. This is beyond depression as I think we're learning. He didn't just learn this -- we didn't just get this particular mental illness overnight. This was something that seemed to have manifested itself very early in his career and during the actual screening process which is part of his training at Lufthansa when he went to Goodyear, Arizona, near Phoenix.

COSTELLO: Interesting.

So, Will, back to you. And I'd like to ask you a question along those same lines. This co-pilot was interviewed by his employers before he flew recently, correct?

RIPLEY: Yes. Carol, what is so horrifying here is that there is a system in place to prevent unstable dangerous individuals from being in a cockpit with hundreds of lives in their hands. In the case of Andreas Lubitz, 149 people, their lives were in his hands. That system failed here in Germany. That's why they're forming this task force. Because all the safeguards that are put in place to protect patient confidentiality, the safeguards that the airline sets up to screen these people, these pilots to make sure that they're in the cockpit, clearly it didn't work in this case.

And Andreas Lubitz ended up in a position where he was a disturbed individual, hiding it or not. He had no business being at the hands of the controls on the day this plane took off. And we know the doctors that he was visiting, they prescribed him medication that would have seriously impaired his ability to fly. He was desperate -- the indications we're getting he was desperate to keep his pilot's license, his dream career of being a pilot.

[10:10:20] He wanted to be in a cockpit and the person -- the pilot who flew with him just the day before said it didn't seem like he was under the influence of any medications. You have a disturbed individual not taking his meds in the cockpit, a plane full of people, students, parents, children, and all of them now are dead as a result of this. That's why this country has formed this task force because they need to figure out what went wrong and they need to fix it.

COSTELLO: All right. Will Ripley, Les Abend, stick around. I've got to take a break but we'll be back with much more on this matter after a break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: And welcome back to the NEWSROOM. A few breaking developments in that Germanwings air crash Flight 9525. We understand the second black box has been found, very, very important. Also the German prosecutor -- spokesperson for the German prosecutor Christoph Kumpa spoke just moments ago and he also relayed some bombshell information about a tablet found that was supposedly used by this co- pilot, Andreas Lubitz. Let's listen.

[10:15:12]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KUMPA (Through Translator): This is the fourth press release of the prosecution. The prosecution together with the police in Dusseldorf have secured documents with data. We have secured a so-called tablet and analyzed it. Personal correspondence and search would show that the device was used by the co-pilot from 16th to 23rd of March is recorded on this device. At one day there was some information about the cockpit doors.

We cannot confirm and inform this because of the assessment of the analysis. The documents are comprehensive and we will not be able to inform you about this in the coming days.

Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: All right. Very disturbing information there. Let's head to Will Ripley, he's in Germany. He's also been monitoring this press conference by German authorities.

And this so-called tablet that they found, Will, not only was this co- pilot supposedly researching cockpit doors, but also suicide.

RIPLEY: Looking on the Web, Carol, for ways to commit suicide. Of course, the specific search terms, the specific things that he may have found, prosecutors are not releasing. But this evidence, this electronic trail, cockpit doors, suicide, it does start to put together some of the pieces that prosecutors and investigators have been asking all along. Was this premeditated? Was this something that was planned or was it indeed a spontaneous action on the part of Andreas Lubitz?

And we -- we don't want to stigmatize people, the millions of people who are living with mental illness. There are many people that have experienced the same difficulties that Lubitz did who do not act in any way to harm other people, but when you're suffering and when you're living with a condition and trying to get help, that's one thing. But if you're now looking for ways to cause harm and death to yourself and perhaps to many, many others, the 149 others that were on that plane, that is where -- that's when things become much more serious, Carol.

And so we're mindful of the sensitivity with the issues as we report all of this, but it's very clear that Andreas Lubitz, as these inner struggles, this doctor shopping, trying to get help, being prescribed heavy medication, being told he's unfit to fly and yet still showing up for work every day and now perhaps also researching ways to kill himself, it's a very, very disturbing picture as it all comes together, and they need to figure out what happened, Carol, because they need to prevent this from happening again. COSTELLO: Well, certainly the evidence coming out is starting to

paint a very dark picture. I want to head to David Soucie now, CNN aviation analyst.

You know, supposedly he was researching not only cockpit doors but ways to commit suicide. So it seems if you connect the dots there that he had planned to take people with him.

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: It certainly does, and the fact that it's been premeditated, that he was actually doing the research ahead of time, he was deciding to do this, as Will had pointed out, this isn't something that is a mental illness driven thing. This is a desire to harm others, to harm himself and others. This goes far beyond the treatment of mental health.

COSTELLO: It's just -- you know, Les, you're a pilot and you've been very disturbed by all the information coming out on this because you flew a plane recently with passengers on board, and they asked you if you were OK.

ABEND: Yes. There was one passenger that asked one of my flight attendants, whether I had family issues at home. And you know, that person was a little awkward and you know, might have said the wrong thing at the wrong time and disturbed this flight attendant but he was perhaps vocalizing, you know, what other passengers were thinking. And this is what disturbs me about this whole thing.

[10:20:02] If this man was -- if indeed he was premeditating this whole situation, and I could go and speculate that he was probably making sure he knew the function of that door, and how he could disable it. I don't think it was -- it may not have been that particular flight that he was looking to do it on, but it may have been a flight that he was considering. It's awful to consider, awful to consider.

(CROSSTALK)

ABEND: This man was a perfect storm of having mental illness. I mean, you know, between the screening process that apparently didn't get through, it's just -- there's aspects of it that kind of disturb me where we could have somewhere stopped this from happening.

COSTELLO: Right.

ABEND: Because it's not an epidemic among pilots. It really isn't.

COSTELLO: No, it's not. It's a very rare occurrence. And I know German authorities have put together some sort of task force to prevent this kind of thing from happening again.

The second black box has been found. I want to go to you, Rene Marsh, because this will go a long way in helping investigators determine what exactly happened.

RENE MARSH, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. As you know, we already have a rough idea of what happened inside the cockpit. But once they have the data recorder, this essentially provides a full picture. They can look from moment to moment as the sounds that were playing out in the cockpit, what exactly was happening with the plane's actual systems, were the engines working?

There are reports based on data streamed from the plane's transponder that someone manually reprogrammed the auto pilot to descend from 38,000 feet to 100 feet. That kind of information will be able to be gleaned from the data recorder. What was happening essentially with all the technical parts of the aircraft.

I mean, at this point, Carol, we do know from the prosecutor's office that they have located the black box. We do not know the condition it is in. But we do know that these recorders are really manufactured under strict guidelines. They're made to withstand massive force. They're made to withstand the most extreme instances, but still at this point we don't know what kind of condition that recorder is in.

COSTELLO: All right. Rene, stand by.

Paul Ginsberg is on the phone. He is a black box expert. Are you there, Paul?

PAUL GINSBERG, BLACK BOX EXPERT: Yes, I am.

COSTELLO: All right. How do they extract this information from the second black box and how long will it take?

GINSBERG: Well, they're going to connect it to lots of software and equipment, first test to see that it's viable and that the data is still there, and then download streams of data, and just as you heard, data is matched up and synchronized with the cockpit voice recorder, the radar data and anything else that would have an input to telling us exactly what happened.

It will corroborate what went on in the cockpit as far as the controls and the engine, the altitude, you know, all of the control services and tell us exactly where and what that plane was doing while he was manipulating the controls.

COSTELLO: And Paul, that plane hit the mountain at 400 miles per hour or faster. Would that necessarily damage the second black box to the point where we couldn't extract information?

GINSBERG: Well, hopefully not. The actual data is on chips, small chips, maybe just an inch or less on each edge. And they are well protected within a number of different shells. You know, they know exactly what they want and how to protect it. It's got several different suits of armor surrounding it. Hopefully if the chip itself is intact, then the data should be there.

COSTELLO: I want to go to you, David Soucie. So the information, just to put it simply, that investigators will want to find out is if this pilot was manually flying the plane into the side of that mountain. The information from that second black box will tell them that. Is that correct? SOUCIE: It will. It will tell them what inputs were made and what

the -- how the airplane reacted. So if it's manually dialed in by the auto pilot, then that control movement wouldn't be there. If he's manually flying it, it would.

COSTELLO: I've got to take a break. We'll be back with much more in the NEWSROOM with this new information.

[10:24:38]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Breaking news out of Kenya. Right now a massive manhunt under way for a man linked to a deadly terror attack that left at least 15 people dead and more than 500 others unaccounted for. This after terrorists stormed a college and then opened fire on Christians. Officials say the attackers are still holding hostages. Nearly 100 people have been hospitalized.

Al-Shabaab, an al Qaeda-linked terror group, already claiming responsibility for this massacre. The message from Kenya's president remain calm and vigilant.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRES. UHURU KENYATTA, KENYA: This is a moment for everyone throughout the country to be vigilant as we confront and defeat our enemies.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: The Kenyan people already springing into action. You can see people here waiting to donate blood to help the victims.

Let's bring in Soni Mathu. She's in Kenya.

Hi, Soni. Are you there?

SONI MATHU, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I am.

COSTELLO: We've heard that when these terrorists raided this college, that they were separating Christian students and Muslim students. Is that what you're hearing?

MATHU: Well, at least initially when the attack began, this is at around 5:30 in the morning, they shot sporadically. They shot at anyone who ran or who was trying to hide. They did not discriminate. It was an indiscriminately shootout that took place in the early hours of the day. However, later on we're hearing reports that in the hostile they're trying to separate Christians and Muslims.

And according to a Twitter handle by al-Shabaab, that's being run by al-Shabaab, they're saying that they've been able to separate those who needed to get away and are believed at least 15 Muslims. So we're waiting to confirm if that is true. We're sure there will be horrific stories coming out of the people who are still being held hostage. [10:30:01] However, again, in the morning there are those who actually

recorded that they tried to flee the field and the gunmen had a vantage point and were able to shoot at all of them, at any of them who was just trying to flee. So this is just developing --

(END)