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DR. DREW

A New York City Detective Berates An Uber Driver Slamming His Car Door, Mocking The Driver`s Broken English While A Passenger, Sanjay Seth, Recorded The Encounter And Posted It On YouTube; A Woman Slices Off Her Former Husband`s Penis Because She Does Not Want Him To Have Sex With Anyone Else; 6-Year-Old Girls Having Sexual Contact In A School Bathroom

Aired April 1, 2015 - 21:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[21:00:08] DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST OF "DR. DREW ON CALL" SHOW: Tonight, 6-year-old girls having sexual contact in a school bathroom. That

is what the police are investigating. No doubt trauma such as this affects children`s lives forever. We will get into it. And, a spiteful woman

slices her male -- her man`s -- ex-husband`s penis right off.

Let us get started with "WTF," the most shocking story of the night dominating Twitter and Facebook. A New York City detective berates an Uber

driver slamming his car door, mocking the driver`s broken English. A passenger, his name Sanjay Seth, recorded the encounter and posted it on

YouTube. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DETECTIVE PATRICK CHERRY, MEMBER OF FBI`S JOINT TERORISM TASK FORCE: Do you understand me?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE UBER DRIVER: Sir, I am not saying --

CHERRY: Do you understand me?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE UBER DRIVER: Yes, I understand.

CHERRY: OK. So, stop it with your mouth.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE UBER DRIVER: OK.

CHERRY: Stop with your, "For what, sir?" "For what sir?" "For what sir?"

UNIDENTIFIED MALE UBER DRIVER: OK.

CHERRY: Stop it with that bull (EXPLETIVE WORD).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE UBER DRIVER: OK.

CHERRY: And realize the three vehicle and traffic law violations you committed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE UBER DRIVER: OK.

CHERRY: OK? You understand me? I do not know what (EXPLETIVE WORD) planet you think you are on right now?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE UBER DRIVER: I am not planning, sir. I am here.

CHERRY: Planning? It is a planet.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE UBER DRIVER: I say I am not going to --

CHERRY: I said planet.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE UBER DRIVER: Yes. I am not in any planet.

CHERRY: That is (EXPLETIVE WORD).

SANJAY SETH, PASSENGER: I have this on video in case you want to --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE UBER DRIVER: You have?

SETH: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE UBER DRIVER: OK. Thank you so much.

SETH: In case you need to submit it to someone.

CHERRY: I am going to tell you something, the next time you do it again --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE UBER DRIVER: OK.

CHERRY: You are going to -- OK, what? Are not you going to let me (EXPLETIVE WORD) finish? Stop interrupting me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE UBER DRIVER: OK. I apologize. I am sorry.

CHERRY: Well, who do you think you are talking to here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE UBER DRIVER: Sir, I am not saying nothing.

CHERRY: No. Every time I open my mouth, you have something to say. When you are driving up (EXPLETIVE WORD) when I am trying to park the car

and then you have to do something with your hands.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE UBER DRIVER: Sir, I just say --

CHERRY: I do not care what you have to say.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE UBER DRIVER: OK.

CHERRY: Do you understand that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE UBER DRIVER: I understand.

CHERRY: People are allowed to park their cars --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE UBER DRIVER: OK.

CHERRY: -- on the side of the street without your interference.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE UBER DRIVER: OK.

CHERRY: -- and then your opinion about what is going on.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE UBER DRIVER: OK, sir.

CHERRY: OK? Especially when the person you do it to are the police.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: That detective was in street clothes, drove an unmarked car, did not produce a badge. He was angry because the Uber driver gestured --

we can imagine what the gesture was after the detective apparently failed to use a turn signal. But, I do not really know what this guy did. And, I

do not know how bad it was.

If it was bad, maybe this guy`s reaction is appropriate. Joining us, Anneelise Goetz, Attorney; Judy Ho, Clinical Psychologist, Professor at

Pepperdine University; Samantha Schacher, Pop Trigger on Hulu.com.

Anneelise, that detective has now been put on desk duty. He has been stripped of his badge and his gun, transferred out of his unit while the

investigation is underway. So, now, we have another -- an officer who was with the terrorism prevention unit off the streets. Is that right? Should

he be fired? Is this an overreaction?

ANNEELISE GOETZ, ATTORNEY: I think it is an overreaction. Look, we do not want to see any kind of racist behavior coming out of our law

enforcement. That is a given.

But, the fact of the matter is, that police officer has a right and a duty to question and investigate anyone that he believes may be committing

a crime, as a reasonable cause that maybe committing a crime.

And, that is -- you know, you can make an argument that is what he is doing. And, Dr. Drew, you made a great point of saying, this guy is a part

of our terrorism task force.

PINSKY: That is right.

GOETZ: And, I mean -- I want those guys to be a little bit aggressive.

PINSKY: And, I want them to be heated too. I do not know what this guy did. But, I have seen in New York, some drivers do some very dangerous

stuff. And, by the way, if I were a policeman -- I am sorry. I am getting excited about this because I have nearly been run over by some of these

guys.

And, usually, they are taxi drivers. Maybe the Uber drivers are getting as problematic as aggressive as the taxi drivers are. If I were a

police officer, I think I would have some words like that. Sam, you do not think so?

SAMANTHA SCHACHER, HOST OF "POP TRIGGER" ON HULU.COM: No. I do not think so at all, Dr. Drew. You are so quick to give the police officer the

benefit of the doubt, which I like that you do, but why not give the Uber driver the benefit of the doubt?

He is the one who is calm. All that I know is that he alerted this unmarked vehicle to turn on a turn signal. So, by doing this, what

happened was, the police officer is so used --

PINSKY: No way.

SCHACHER: Yes, Dr. Drew. It is --

PINSKY: No way, Sam. The gesture --

SCHACHER: OK. Well, even, Dr. Drew --

PINSKY: Well, you know what the gesture was. Come on!

SCHACHER: Even if it was that he flipped off his finger, Dr. Drew, this police officer is so used to being in a position of power, he is now

abusing his power. He thinks he is above the law and he cannot act this way. I am sorry.

PINSKY: Maybe I have been too jaded by some of the interactions I have had. I swear to God, I have had more aggressive interaction where

people or cop yells at me, tells me not to talk or tells me --

Literally, I remember once I turned left on a new left turn signal. I did not realize there was a signal there. And, I turned and there was a

female cop, who is yelling at me like that. And, I said, "Look, I am sorry. I did not know." She said, I have to give you a ticket to jar your

memory, is that what we need to do here?

SCHACHER: But that is not what happened, Dr. Drew. That is not what happened. This police officer got irate because the Uber driver called him

out. And, he could not handle that.

PINSKY: I do not know that. I do not know if that is what it was.

SCHACHER: OK. Well, who was calm? Who was calm? -- the Uber driver was.

PINSKY: I know the guy who was scared was calm. Let us look a little more at the detective`s rant. Take a look.

[21:05:00] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHERRY: I do not know where you are coming from or where you think you are appropriate in doing that. That is not the way it works. How long

have you been in this country?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE UBER DRIVER: Almost two years.

CHERRY: Almost how long?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE UBER DRIVER: Two years.

CHERRY: Two years. I got news for you and use this lesson. Remember this in the future. Do not ever do that again.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE UBER DRIVER: OK.

CHERRY: The only reason you are not in handcuffs going to jail and getting summons in the precinct is because I have things to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: And, I say that is good too. I want the guy fighting criminals, not Uber drivers. Fantastic. He has good judgment on top of

that. But, Judy, there is one little piece that might be a problem. Is he xenophobic.

Is that what we are seeing here or is he noticing that this guy is new to the country and may need some education about some of the ways that the

traffic laws operate? Is that possible?

JUDY HO, PH.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: I do not think it is possible, Dr. Drew. I mean what does -- I mean how long he has been in the country

have to do with whatever interaction they had before we saw this heated argument?

PINSKY: Well, maybe he did something wild. We do not know what he did. I do not know what he did driving wise. I do not know if he drove up

on the sidewalk and then almost ran over the cop. I do not know.

HO: What does that have to do with being in this country? You probably should not drive on any sidewalk in any country.

PINKY: Probably.

HO: So, I do not understand that.

PINSKY: I do not know. I do not know what he did -- you are saying xenophobic. He is xenophobic, period, right?

HO: I think he is xenophobic.

PINSKY: All right.

HO: And, he is obviously trying to take a swipe at this guy as much as he can to down his self-esteem and say, "You are not even important

enough for me to make problems for this." This is ridiculous. This guy is obviously psychologically abusing the driver.

PINSKY: OK.

SCHACHER: Thank you.

PINSKY: Well -- no? Anneelise says, "No." So, that is the question. That is really the question. It is that something he needs to do to do his

job, Anneelise to be like that just -- you know?

I mean they are used to dealing with really problematic people. He wants to make an impression on this guy. But, he does not want to waste

time with him. He has to leave a mark, right? He got to leave something behind. No?

GOETZ: And, that is the thing, Dr. Drew. People are so upset about this. But, what really happened to this guy? He did not even get a

ticket, right?

(LAUGHING)

PINSKY: Right.

GOETZ: I mean he got a warning essentially and got to drive off. And, now he is, you know, a YouTube star.

PINSKY: Now, here is somebody -- hang on.

SCHACHER: I do not buy this. I do not know.

PINSKY: Hold on. Look at --

GOETZ: He is an officer --

PINSKY: Yes.

GOETZ: We need to have these guys be aggressive. He is fighting terrorists.

PINSKY: Yes. I am with Anneelise.

HO: But, this driver is not a terrorist, Anneelise. It is ridiculous.

PINSKY: Of course, he is not. That is why he did not pay attention and went on to deal with his real job. But, listen, show that picture of

the officer, again, please. His name is Detective Patrick Cherry, I think it is. And, here is something that bothers me. They say he is 38 years

old.

SCHACHER: What?

PINSKY: Do you think he is 38, you guys? I do not know. He has been working very hard if that is the case. The FBI -- He is part of the FBI

Joint Terrorism Task Force. God bless him for that. He has been 14 years on the job.

There have been 13 civilian complaints, though. I am wondering what that is. Now, Sam, let me ask you this. Would you have reacted

differently if an officer started yelling at you like that?

SCHACHER: I would have been calm, 100 percent, Dr. Drew. But that is -- You are missing the point. This officer -- this is not even an officer.

Like you said, this is a detective.

He has no business pulling people over. He lost his cool. You are witnessing somebody that got called out because he did not have his blinker

on and he lost his cool and he thinks he is above the law.

PINSKY: I am just remembering two incidents I have had with police -- this when I was a lot younger. One, when a guy actually picked me up and

shook me.

SCHACHER: (INAUDIBLE)

PINSKY: No, no. This is a cop. But, interestingly, how I recreate those traumas, is not it?

(LAUGHING)

SCHACHER: Right.

PINSKY: But, the other was, I was crossing the Rose Parade route on New Year`s Day, and I was midway out cleared by everyone else and all of a

sudden this female police started banging on my car and kicking, screaming "Bloody murder."

SCHACHER: What?

PINSKY: And she said, "Get out of the streets." So, I pulled across the street where I was headed. And, she took me to court for misobeying an

officer. It was ridiculous. It was ridiculous, but you know what? She had to do her job.

She understands what was going on there. We cleared it up in court. It was a waste of time. There are worse things guy -- and I am just

saying, I am just wondering if having all these videos can prevent police from doing their job.

HO: I do not think so, Dr. Drew. This particular detective completely lost his cool and I believe he is not fit for duty. When you

want to interrogate somebody, there are methods to that.

And, you actually have to be very calm and very systematic following protocol. This is not somebody who is following protocol. And, I really

wonder if he is really fit to do his job that he is going to lose his cool so quickly.

PINSKY: All right. Well -- I am going to bring in somebody from law enforcement in the next block and straighten it out. I do not know what

this officer is going to say. He may agree with you, Judy. He may agree with me. I do not know.

Next up, the passenger recording that incident has been tweeting all day. I will show you what he is saying tonight.

And, later, a woman slices off her former husband`s penis because she does not want him to have sex with anyone else. Why else would you that?

Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[21:13:44] CHERRY: OK? You understand me? I do not know what (EXPLETIVE WORD) planet you think you are on right now?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE UBER DRIVER: I am not planning, sir. I am here.

CHERRY: Planning? It is a planet.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE UBER DRIVER: I say I am not going to --

CHERRY: I said planet.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE UBER DRIVER: Yes. I am not in any planet.

CHERRY: That is (EXPLETIVE WORD).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHERRY: Do not move the car and stay there.

SETH: Sorry about that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE UBER DRIVER: He cannot understand me.

CHERRY: Who are you (EXPLETIVE WORD) with me? Do you understand me? Pull over.

SETH: No. That is crazy. That is really inappropriate. No, it is not your fault. Listen, it is not your fault. It is -- This guy is just a

(EXPLETIVE WORD). Do not say anything. You are going to be --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Just be quiet. "Yes, sir." "I am sorry, sir." That is it.

CHERRY: Let me tell you something, the next time you do it again --

CHERRY: I am going to tell you something, the next time you do it again --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE UBER DRIVER: OK.

CHERRY: You are going to -- OK, what? Are not you going to let me (EXPLETIVE WORD) finish? Stop interrupting me.

(END VIDEO CLIP) . PINSKY: Back with Anneelise, Judy and Sam. That video is post on

YouTube by Sanjay Seth, the man behind the camera, the Uber passenger. The detective is now under investigation.

And, Judy, I will ask the question again. Do you think we should take this guy`s badge away? Why will not we just give him some time-out and

some education. And, let him go back to his job.

HO: Listen, he needs more than just anger management classes, Dr. Drew. There is something --

PINSKY: Why?

HO: -- because, look at the way he lost it on something that is seemingly pretty small time for somebody usually deals in the terrorism --

PINSKY: Hang on, Judy. He said -- well, I will grant you that. But, he did say -- well, he says, "Never OK to get in someone`s face here. It

is a much powering saying. I agree with you. However, we do not know what this guy did. He says if you ever do that again -- I wonder what that was.

SCHACHER: Dr. Drew --

PINSKY: It was not just flipping off the cops.

SCHACHER: Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Sam.

SCHACHER: Who even said that he flipped off the cops? You do not know that.

HO: Right.

SCHACHER: Why do this -- this Uber passenger has no loyalty to the Uber driver. He said the Uber driver honked and made a blinking signal

like, yoh, cop, you are supposed to -- he did not know it was a cop.

PINSKY: No way.

SCHACHER: Like, yoh, you are supposed to --

PINSKY: No way.

SCHACHER: Yes. Well, Dr. Drew, somebody

HO: That is what it said to all the reports.

SCHACHER: -- that is what it said on the report, and somebody in a position of power who is used to being above the law in his mind really got

ticked off at somebody, called him out.

PINSKY: All right. Well, I love the way he does the drill sergeant thing where, "Do not talk." "Why are not you talking to me?" The guy

cannot win. That is interesting.

HO: Yes.

PINSKY: But, I want to show you something that Chris Rock posted. If you guys have pulled that up right. This is -- if things like this that, I

think, it is triggered in our thinking about this.

Chris Rock triggered out this photo two nights ago with the caption, quote, "Stopped by the cops again. Wish me luck." This is the third he

has posted of himself getting pulled over in just the last two months. There are some of the other ones right there.

So, I think that is what we are all afraid that this is profiling and xenophobia and some sort of implicit bias that is being reflected here. As

opposed to a guy that is just doing his job and lost it. What do you say, Anneelise?

GOETZ: Well, I am concerned, Dr. Drew, about something that you touched on in the last segment, where essentially we do not want to have

our police officers temper how they enforce our laws.

PINSKY: All right.

GOETZ: Which is the reason why we have the idea of qualified immunity.

PINSKY: Yes.

GOETZ: So, they have as a defense that unless they, actually, are taking action that is unconstitutional or against the statutory right, they

have a free slate when they are doing their job --

PINSKY: And, I am fearful they are not going to be able to do what -- I am not a policeman. I do not know how they have to do things to get

their job done. That is their expertise. But, now the camera is being held up every time they are trying to do something.

Yes, it may hold them accountable on one hand. On the other the hand, it might prevent them from being able do their job. I got Sheriff Richard

Jones on the phone. He is a Law Enforcement Expert. Sheriff, help us sort of reconcile this. What was your reaction when you saw this video?

SHERIFF RICHARD JONES, LAW ENFORCEMENT EXPERT (via phone): OK. I saw it where the guy, he lost it for the time being. But, I do not know that a

special hand signal for turn signal. I do not know what that signal is. I am more thinking it is something like a finger thing.

PINSKY: Absolutely. Of course that is what it is. And, I think --

SHERIFF JONES: And ask your panel what hand signal is for turn signal.

SCHACHER: Well, this.

PINSKY: Well, Sam imagines him blinking his hands as though --

(LAUGHING)

SCHACHER: Even -- Dr. Drew, even if it is the middle finger, I get flipped off all the time when we are driving, vice versa --

SHERIFF JONES: Yes. But, when you are a police officer --

SCHACHER: It does not mean that I am going to go buck wild.

SHERIFF JONES: When you are a police officer and somebody flips you off, you are not supposed to just go, "Oh, that is OK."

SCHACHER: He did not --

SHERIFF JONES: You are supposed to stop them and you are supposed to, "Hey, do not do that." And, you know, everybody has a little road rage. I

drive a plain car. And, sometimes I cut in front of people. I do not do it on purpose. They do not know I am a policeman.

But they will go by me. They will sometimes make a motion with their finger. Does that make me angry? It sure does. But, what I do is, I will

pull them over and I say, "You know, I am a policeman. You cannot cut in front of me. I made a mistake. I did not mean to make it. But, you

should not go around and cut back in front of me".

PINSKY: And, you know what, Officer Jones -- Chuck Jones, I got to say something. I think I -- maybe it is something about being a male and

driving a car. I cannot tell you how many times I do something accidental and then somebody does something very dangerous to come around me and do

something insane to express their anger on what I have done.

SHERIFF JONES: Their anger --

PINSKY: Yes. And, flip me off. And, I think I would love to do what Sheriff Jones does. And, I am so glad he does it because that guy may

think next time before he does it. And, by the way, you are in New York City where that kind of behavior can lead to a problem.

SHERIFF JONES: Hey, but let me explain this to you. I want everybody to understand. Police officers in different situations have to talk

differently to different crowds. Sometimes you can be real nice and real polite.

Sometimes you have to be very loud. You have to show anger and you are in charge. Stand back. And, sometimes a bad word may come out. But

sometimes people understand that this instance here, I do not know what made him angry. It was -- he needs some anger management.

But, you do not know what -- I guarantee you this officer, he is on, you know, Terrorism Task Force. He works for the FBI. He looks like a guy

that is seasoned and he just got angry. And, he needs to be checked. He needs discipline, but he does not need to be fired. I do not know the

whole story, but he does need some discipline.

PINSKY: I am so glad you said that, Sheriff Jones. And, I am fearful that the mob is going to get going on this guy. Yes, we wonder if he is a

xenophobic. If he is, let us make him more sensitive to those issues.

SCHACHER: Right.

[21:20:00] PINSKY: And, tune him in, so he does not make those mistakes, again. If he has anger management issues, let us make him better

at doing his job. Sam, what is that in. Yes, we wonder if he is -- let us make him sensitive so he does not make those mistakes. If he has anger

management issues, let us make him better at doing his job. Let us not cast off somebody that is good. Sam, what is that?

SCHACHER: Yes. I have actually, Dr. Drew, a statement from his union, the Detectives Endowment Association. And, this is in regard to

kind of what Sheriff Jones was saying. That you know, they are human too. So, this is what the statement reads in part.

"Cops are just like everyone else. They have families, friends and other things going on in their lives too that may affect their behavior at

times. Detective Patrick Cherry is a person of good character and an excellent detective. He really should not be judged by one isolated

incident.

Now, they also told our affiliate that this detective was on his way to visit a colleague in the hospital and he was very stressed out. And,

that is why he went on that rant.

PINSKY: Well, Judy, you are not going to say that is no excuse.

SCHACHER: Does not make it OK.

PINSKY: In a single episode, if it is bad enough is not OK. I agree with you in that front too. But, I am saying -- here is my problem. Is

everybody else perfect? Everyone is perfect out there? All of you are perfect?

SCHACHER: No.

HO: No one is perfect, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: And, somebody catches you doing something on camera or tweets -- you misstate something on a tweet, so we then have to rid you of your

ability to make your living?

HO: Dr. Drew, nobody is perfect here, but this is definitely not an isolated incident.

SCHACHER: Correct.

HO: And, because he is a detective, he is a model for our society and he has to be held to a higher standards.

PINSKY: Stop there. Stop there. Yes. Yes, he does.

HO: Yes.

PINSKY: Anneelise is going to say no, but let us say he does. Let us help him do that.

HO: That is right.

PINSKY: Let us help him do that. Let us not take him out of the force. Let us help him do that. Anneelise, last words.

GOETZ: What I think is that he is in the Terrorism Task Force, which means that we want him to be aggressive and we want him to beauthoritative.

We do not want him to be a wall flower. He should not be held to the same standard that I am or you are.

PINKY: All right --

GOETZ: We want him to have that kind of conduct.

PINSKY: All right. Next up, a 6-year-old girl is suspected of sex acts in a school bathroom. We will get into it.

And, later, a woman who cannot bear the thought of her ex-husband having sex with someone else. So, she does what all of my panelists would

evidently do, she grabs a knife and does her thing. Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[21:26:02] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER (1): Two of the girls that was in there had asked my daughter to perform sexual favors, oral sex on

them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: That Ohio mother is talking about her young daughter, a first grader. School officials reportedly told her the

girl was involved in an inappropriate sexual situation in a school restroom. According to school officials, three children were involved.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER (2): The one little girl crawled under the stall and was just asking -- wanted each of them to play with their

body parts.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: A student reportedly told a teacher that something nasty happened in the girl`s restroom.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PINSKY: Back with Anneelise, Judy and Sam. Our most tweeted story of he night, the student who reportedly initiated this incident has not been

back to school. The CEO of that charter school, who we will speak to in just a minute, is requiring the girl receive some sort of counseling before

she will be allowed to return.

But, Judy, child on child sexual abuse, people do not understand how common this is. It is a serious problem. It is somewhere around 10

percent of all cases of sexual abuse. I cannot tell you how often I speak to people where I can tell they have been traumatized sexually.

And, I asked them if there has been sexual abuse and their answers are "No. I do not know what you are talking about. Of course not. Yes, there

was this thing in kindergarten, where -- yes, I think we were playing doctor, but we had sex. But, anyway, we are playing doctor."

You know, I was like, "What?" If there is a sexualized behavior, an adult sexual behavior by a prepubescent child, that child had been sexually

abused by an adult and then is acting out on other children, and it is a shockingly common . You agree?

HO: Yes, Dr. Drew. And like you said, as adults, people do not know how common this is, that sometimes it is actually being expressed with the

younger children amongst themselves. But that comes from somewhere. There is always an aspect of it that came from an adult.

PINSKY: From an adult. It started --

HO: Or the adult actually either abused or they witnessed adults.

PINSKY: Yes. Yes.

HO: So, this is the problem, right, Dr. Drew?

PINSKY: Yes.

HO: Because, we talked about this a lot, that as these little girls and boys grow up, they continue to have problems. They become

hypersexualized, having sex earlier maybe than their --

PINSKY: Well -- or sex addiction.

HO: That is right.

PINSKY: It is one of the routes to sex addiction.

HO: That is right.

PINSKY: Then -- unfortunately, we live in a society where people go - - who are we to say? Whatever they are in to? I am just a sexual person. No. This is a pathology initiated by a perpetrator upon a child who then

would sounds bizarre, but that is what children do what adults do to them. I want to ask Sam and Anneelise if they have ever heard of this before. Is

this familiar territory to you, guys? Have you become across to this?

SCHACHER: I have learned it more through when I co-hosted on Love Line with you, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Right. We hear it all the time.

SCHACHER: You have been able to spot it. So, basically, just to reiterate what you are saying, the little girl that initiated it, she is

mimicking what happened to her at home?

PINSKY: We do not know. There is details we are going to try to figure out here because this story gets pretty complicated when we gets to

the weeds.

SCHACHER: So sad.

PINSKY: But when a child performs a sexual -- an overtly sexual act on another child, that child had been sexually abused. Anneelise.

HO: Right.

GOETZ: I think it is interesting what you are saying. I am not familiar with this concept, but it falls in line with what else we know

about this story, which is that the mother of this child is supposedly under -- has an investigation with child protective services going on right

now.

So, and, maybe this report that she gave to the police was not completely factual. So, when you are talking about the child acting out,

as well as what is going on at the home that certainly fits with the case that maybe a prosecutor could be building.

PINSKY: Well, A local station spoke to a mother whose daughter was allegedly involved in this bathroom incident. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Two of the girls that was in there had asked my daughter to perform sexual favors -- oral sex on them.

No child at that age should have to go through that kind of situation, not even a grown person.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: That woman alleged in the police report that the two girls made her daughter, quote, "lick their privates," unquote. This is a

serious situation. It is not just a parenting problem.

It is not just an, "Oh, my God! Can you imagine what this world is coming to." This happens a lot in this country. And, it is the direct

result of an adult either exposing the child repeatedly to sexual adult sexual material or actually sexually assaulting the child.

And, it is painfully common. So, on the phone I have Dr. Pat McKinstry, CEO of "Rise and Shine Academy" where this alleged incident took

place allegedly. Dr. McKinstry, help us what understand what probably happened here. We were getting lost in the weeds.

DR. PAT MCKINSTRY, CEO OF RISE AND SHINE ACADEMY (via phone): OK. It was really a false statement by the parent who reported that, which was her

alleged child that initiated crawling under the stall, wanted to see the other girl`s privates.

PINSKY: How do we know there -- how do we know there was not something more explicitly sexual in that intent?

DR. MCKINSTRY: We have a school counselor plus a psychologist that is on staff that is here, that is really part of our volunteer service to us.

And, so all of the kids and their parents, three 6-year-old girls, they told this right story.

PINSKY: Dr. McKinstry, can you hang on for a second? I want to talk to Judy.

DR. MCKINSTRY: Yes.

PINSKY: Then I got to go to quick break. Judy, it is very difficult to get a history from a 6-year-old. How do you sort this out?

HO: Thank you, Dr. Drew. I was just thinking that. A 6-year-old is very likely to be influenced by the adults. So, I do not know what

happened during the interview. But, you actually have to have specialized training to interview them to get accurate information.

Because often times, we will ask questions in a closed-ended way or in a way that actually shows the child that we actually think there is one

correct answer. And, so then the child might just -- and if you say, so, that did not happen, right? He did not touch you that way? The child is

more likely to say, "Yes, you are right. It did not happen."

PINSKY: Or converse. If you say that, "Here is what happened, right?" The child would go, "Yes, I guess."

HO: Exactly.

PINSKY: Especially, they are confused about what happened to them. They cannot make sense of sexualized conduct.

HO: Yes.

PINSKY: They are very much overwhelmed. That is why it shatters the brain. It shatters the ability of young brain to regulate. The trajectory

of the development of that brain is changed forever.

HO: Ever.

PINSKY: Later on, we have a man whose trajectory is changed forever as well. He loses his genitalia after his jealous wife comes after him

with a knife. Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[21:36:50] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Two of the girls that was in there had asked my daughter to perform sexual favors, oral sex, on them.

No child at that age should have to go through that kind of situation. Not even a grown person.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with Anneelise, Judy and Sam. That mother alleges her 6-year-old daughter was the victim of a sexual incident in a school

bathroom with two first-grade classmates. The school CEO says that that woman`s child had initiated the incident. So, Sam, I will go to you. That

mom --

SCHACHER: Right.

PINSKY: Lying or in denial? That is our choice here, right?

SCHACHER: Well, it looks like that she is lying, Dr. Drew, so she can get ahead of the case and she can paint her child as the victim rather than

the person that initiated all of this.

And, then you look at her history also being in trouble with CPS. And, why would her -- after talking to you and Judy, why would her daughter

act out that way? Hmm, maybe because there is some trauma at home. So, now, it is all starting to fall into place.

PINSKY: Maybe, maybe.

SCHACHER: Maybe.

PINSKY: Judy you shake your head, no. Why not?

HO: Well, I was actually just thinking about the fact that there is a lot of different thinks that happen when CPS investigates, right?

PINSKY: Right. Right.

HO: So, we do not exactly know what is happening.

PINSKY: Or why they investigated.

HO: We do not really know why they investigated.

PINSKY: And -- and I am looking at a tweet there that says, "Do not be so quick to blame the parents. These days, kids can access porn without

verifying their age."

HO: Yes.

PINSKY: And, that is Judy another point, is not it? That we are talking about being exposed to explicit sexual material. Pornography is

one of those things that can really damage a kid`s development.

HO: That is right. And, you were just saying before -- I am glad you picked up the brain, Dr. Drew, before we went to break. Because, when a

child is exposed to information that they are not supposed to know, this sexual information at such a young age, it does completely fracture their

development. So, however, they are exposed whether it is through porn or actually being sexually assaulted themselves.

PINSKY: Yes.

HO: It ruptures the way that their brain develops forever in multiple areas.

PINSKY: Listen -- multiple areas in emotional systems, in motivational systems, in executive processing systems. You have to

understand this. It is not because, "Hey, we are being uptight and not exposing children to this material." Exposing them in a material they

cannot process it.

HO: Yes.

PINSKY: It exceeds their brain is ability to regulate the material. And, it shatters and becomes a preoccupation. It becomes a trauma.

HO: Yes.

PINSKY: Anneelise, you wanted to say something.

GOETZ: I do. You know, I look at this from a legal perspective. And, I think, one of two things is going on here. Either this woman is

lying about what happened to her child in which case, she should be charged with falsifying reports to police and not only be charged with a

misdemeanor but paid for everything that this community cost the community is incurring to investigate this false report.

Or we have a situation where this actually did occur and the school is doing everything they can to cover their tracks. Because a school has a

duty to provide a safe environment to your kids.

PINSKY: Well, thank you. And, speaking of the school, I still have on the phone the school`s CEO, Dr. Pat McKinstry. Dr. McKinstry, you are

requiring the girl to receive some form of treatment. What is it you are requiring before she comes back to school?

DR. MCKINSTRY: The parents must -- the parent -- we have the school counselor and the psychologist that the parent must take these kids to.

And, two of the parents has except this parent.

[21:40:01] PINSKY: Interesting. That is interesting that the other two parents have been concerned enough to take their children in and the

woman who made the complaint, who may have been the perpetrator, I guess what we are hearing -- this is all allegedly -- is the one who does not

take her child in. And, that is very telling.

SCHACHER: Thank you.

PINSKY: And, Dr. McKinstry, you sent a letter home to parents that said, quote, "There are no finding of gross sexual imposition." I think

what you are saying there is that even if something inappropriate happened, the girls were not -- it did not go too far. Is that about right?

DR. MCKINSTRY: Right. Right.

PINSKY: Yes. Judy, what does your instinct tell you now?

HO: I do not believe that that is all of the information, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: All right. I think you are probably right. But, it is all we got right now.

HO: Right.

PINSKY: Dr. McKinstry, how are the other girls doing? Are they back at school?

DR. MCKINSTRY: They are back at school. But, I tell you what has motivated me on the 14th and 24th, we have children services coming in.

And, we have an assembly teaching the kids body awareness and safe touching.

PINSKY: Great.

DR. MCKINSTRY: So, we have motivated --

PINSKY: Maybe tell the parents -- get the parents in too.

SCHACHER: Right.

PINSKY: Because the parents are where this stuff gets exposed --

DR. MCKINSTRY: We are.

PINSKY: Good for you.

DR. MCKINSTRY: Yes.

PINSKY: What about the teachers.

DR. MCKINSTRY: We opened it for the parents and the public.

PINSKY: What about the teacher who was overseeing the children?

DR. MCKINSTRY: The teacher, she is -- we did not terminate her. It is her choice if she chooses to stay. But, it has helped us change

bathroom rules where the teacher now must stay in the hall and release a child one at a time.

PINSKY: And, Dr. McKinstry, has the behavior of the kids that returned to school changed at all? Are they reintegrated and they are

being their usual selves?

DR. MCKINSTRY: They will be in their usual selves, if it has not affected anyone and anyone is free to come. But, it has made us aware that

we have this problem coming in from the outside. And, we have them in school. We have to up what we need to do for them.

PINSKY: Dr. McKinstry, thank you for joining us. I want to give everyone some data about sexual abuse. If you guys will put that up there

for me. Stats between 20 and 30 percent of child abuse is perpetrated by adolescents. 20 to 30 percent by essentially and 5 to 16 percent younger

than adolescent. OK?

Do we have the data on the number of people sexually abused? It is around 20 percent -- I think 20 percent of girls and 10 percent of boys

have sexual abuse. They are most vulnerable in age 7 to 13. But think about it, if you add up the percentage of adolescent and child on child`s

sexual abuse, it is 30 percent of sexual abuse incident.

SCHACHER: Wow.

HO: Oh my goodness.

PINSKY: It is 20 percent by adolescent, 10 percent by children. You got to keep an eye on this. This is where this stuff -- people when they

are having -- when a 19-year-old is having sex with a 14-year-old, that is traumatic. You do not just blow that off, "You know, kids will be kids."

That is trauma. That is sexual misconduct. That is sexual abuse. Anneelise, you have a last thought here?

GOETZ: Just that there is a theory called "In loco parentis" and she talked about this, but that school is supposed to act as though they are

the parents when they have those kids in their control. And, you talk about those statistics, they have to be careful that that might be going

on. They have to be aware of it.

PINSKY: We are in an epidemic of adverse childhood experience. Adverse child experience, ACE. We are in epidemic of this. Do not kid

yourself. When a child is hit with an object, when a child is sexually mishandled or exposed to material that they are not supposed to be exposed

to, when they are neglected, when they are -- they are so many different kinds of adverse childhood experiences going on today in our disrupted

families. It is nuts. We have to do something about this.

Changing topics. Next up -- I almost cannot make the transition. It is like trying to sing from a different kind of song to another. A man has

his genitalia reattached after his jealous possessive wife slices it off.

I am going to ask my panel if there is any justification for something like that. You can check us out on Instagram. We post new photos every

day. Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[21:48:15] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: A man is in the hospital hoping his penis will function in the future. His ex-wife cut it off with

a kitchen knife when he refused to reconcile with her. He ran to the hospital carrying the organ in his hand and doctors were able to reattach

it. His ex-wife turned herself in to police.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with Anneelise, Judy, Sam and a segment we call, "Seriously?" A story that will be hard to believe unless it were true. I

think it is you guys getting back at me for the story we did a couple of nights or was it the last night with the Super Glue. I will reference it

in a minute.

Physicians reattach the man`s penis, but they are not sure if there will be normal or even any function. Judy, once again, I reported that guy

that super glued his wife I guess it was genitalia. Now, we have people using knives. These are such primitive behaviors. What is going on here?

HO: Dr. Drew, when people are mad and they are emotional, their prefrontal cortex shuts down. They are going to the primitive parts of

their brain.

PINSKY: Wait, wait.

HO: Yes.

PINSKY: Yes -- If they were primitive man living in, you know, a cave somewhere, I would go, "OK. They only have primitive behaviors to choose

amongst." I hope, I hope if my frontal lobe would shut down, I still would have civilized behavior. No?

HO: Well, not when you are that angry, Dr. Drew. And, so, I guess, these individuals are pushed to the brink. And, they cannot even access

what is in their frontal lobe, the things that make us human.

PINSKY: Sam.

SCHACHER: No way. No way. That is crazy.

PINSKY: Crazy.

SCHACHER: I do not care how angry I could ever be at my husband -- which I have been pretty angry before or in other situations in my life, I

would never think to cut off his penis. That is the most horrific thing you can do. Not only you are causing him excruciating pain, but you are

taking away their ability to potentially have kids, to be intimate with other people.

PINSKY: Yes. And, to be fair --

SCHACHER: It is insane.

PINSKY: My wife always, always kids that this could happen. But, I assume she is kidding.

SCHACHER: She never would.

[21:50:03] PINSKY: I mean Judy, I think you get some sort of bizarre satisfaction or even saying that. Anneelise, you are smiling. Come on

now.

GOETZ: I mean it is ridiculous, right?

PINSKY: Yes.

GOETZ: They say, "Oh, she is so mad that he might be with someone else." Girl, go find someone else, anyways. He does not want to be with

you. Now, you are going to be in jail.

Like not only do you not have your husband, but you are sitting in jail. It does not make any sense. And, the fact the matter is this is a

crime, right? She is a criminal. That is what really happening.

PINSKY: Yes.

GOETZ: Just like every criminal, she acted out. She was crazy.

PINSKY: Yes.

GOETZ: She is going to be charged. She is going to jail.

PINSKY: Yes. See, Judy, do not you think, you and I and our field -- I thought of this last night. We are getting too dismissive of people not

containing their primitive impulses. Are not they obliged to contain them or else? I like the way anneelise almost said grow a pair. And, go be

with somebody else. But, Judy, you know what I am talking about?

HO: Yes.

PINSKY: Yes.

HO: I do not think we are being dismissive, though, Dr. Drew. Because obviously, there are personality differences. So, I think, what we

are hearing from everybody on this panel is when we get mad, we are still going to be able to hold this together, but some people cannot. And, there

are emotional regulatory issues in these people.

PINSKY: Yes. And Sam, you say some -- one of the producers told me that you would allow for this --

SCHACHER: What?

PINSKY: Wait. Somebody told me this. You would allow for this if a man was a rapist or a molester.

SCHACHER: Well, I said I understand -- you know I was talking about the double standard. And, there is a double standard. We seem to get so

much more irate when for instance that other man super glued his wife`s genitalia, which is horrific.

But, it is equally horrific, but I did say I think we can understand it a little bit more if we found out that a guy was molesting, raping

children. And, we see his penis as a weapon. So, I understand -- I do not condone. I understand when people say, "Well, then he should have his

penis cut off, because essentially you are disarming him." But, I am not condoning it.

PINSKY: Sam. Sam, put your fingers in your ears. I do not want you to hear what I am going to say. Because, really, everybody. Come on now.

I mean I do not care what the circumstances are, have we become that primitive?

Really, that is where we are at, where we can take the law into our hands and act out behaviors that we find gratifying just because we are

angry, just because we want to have revense, just because we want to do drugs, just because we want to -- whatever it is, everybody. Come on now.

There is a point we have to say, "Stop it."

Next, are the rules different, though, for a woman who maims her lover as opposed to a man who does the same thing? Do we look upon them

differently? Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[21:56:42] VANESSA BARNETT, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: She cuts off the man`s member because he is doing something that he is not supposed to do

with that member.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LONI COOMBS, FORMER PROSECUTOR: No one is going to have you sexually. I am going to ruin you forever for me, for everyone else.

PINSKY: Right. Women tend to do this for revenge almost exclusively.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARNETT: When a girl chops off a man`s penis, I want her to bronze it and put it on her mantle of trophy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: All right. Back with Anneelise, Judy and Sam. I do not know what to say. Earlier this week we told you about a man who had super glued

his wife`s genitalia because he thought she had been cheated. It generated a conversation we had about female genital mutilation, generally and that

men are generally I think sort of frighten to female sexuality.

Tonight, we have a woman who cut off her ex-husband`s penis, because he refused -- well, we really do not know what he refused to do. We know

what he did do and that is what led to the dismemberment, so to speak.

And, I was just saying that a woman is often doing that out of aggression and anger. And, a male might be doing it more out of fear, fear

of the entirety of the female sexual conduct. And, my question -- I will start with Anneelise, see if you have an answer. Why do women tend to

rally around a woman who harms a man, this way, but a man who does not, we all universally condemn?

GOETZ: I guess I do not have an answer for you because I am not one of those woman that rallied around women that do this. I think it is a

crime. And I think that they should not be rallying around them. But, I do think there is a distinction. They is a distinction between the female

genital mutilation, which we are talking about before and this.

PINSKY: Yes.

GOETZ: Because there is a brutal cultural conversation behind --

PINSKY: Yes, but it comes -- hang on, Anneelise. It comes from somewhere. All that culture comes from somewhere. Some dude thought -- it

did not come from women. Some dude thought this was a good idea. And, it became a cultural institution. But, first, somebody had to have the

impulse to do this. And, Judy, I am saying that impulse was fear of female sexuality.

HO: That is very possible. And, we still have this double standard as you mentioned, Dr. Drew. Amazingly, women and men cheat on one another

at similar rates. So, for whatever reason we have created this double standard that somehow there is women who rally around when women do this to

men, but I do not that is right --

PINSKY: Well, I just saw Vanessa do it.

HO: I know.

PINSKY: I just saw Vanessa go crazy.

HO: Oh, my gosh.

PINSKY: And, I am looking at Sam sit there coyly right now right now.

SCHACHER: No.

PINSKY: And, I am afraid to go to her.

SCHACHER: What? Hell no!

PINSKY: OK, thank you.

SCHACHER: Hell for the no, Dr. Drew are you going to pain me that way, because I 100 percent think it is --

PINSKY: I am just saying. You did not jump in with Anneelise, and I saw you smiling at Vanessa.

SCHACHER: No. I am shocked. I think there is a double standard. And, I think it is horrific, either way, whether it is the penis or whether

it is the female genitalia. It is F`d up. Not OK.

PINSKY: But, listen, in the male, there is always this sort of background thought that, "Oh, he must have deserved it." How could -- and

Anneelise, you have been right on top of this. How could anybody deserve any of this anymore than being shot or killed?

GOETZ: They cannot, you know? And, we are not a self-policing society, right? If someone does you wrong, you go to the police. You do

not grab a knife and knock off their business.

PINSKY: Well, we started with the police, we are ending with the police. And, guess what, if it comes to an issue like this, like

protecting your body parts, I want the police to be very, very aggressive. So, anybody with me on how that guy behaved at the beginning of the show?

SCHACHER: Yes. Yes.

PINSKY: I am just saying, gentlemen.

SCHACHER: No.

PINSKY: Ladies?

HO: You cannot bring him in for this, Dr. Drew.

SCHACHER: Yes.

PINSKY: Thank you. DVR us, anytime -- DVR us then you can watch us any time. And, everyone`s favorite show, the "Forensic Files" is up next,

and it begins now.

[22:00:07] END

END