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Final Moments Aboard Doomed Flight; Investigators Focus on Co- Pilot's Mental State; Forensic Teams Identify at Least 80 Victims; Iran Nuclear Talks Running Out of Time. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired March 30, 2015 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PLEITGEN (voice-over): Over the weekend, disturbing new details from Flight 9525's mangled cockpit voice recorder, published by German newspaper "Bild."

BILL WALDOCK, PROFESSOR, EMBRY-RIDDLE AERONAUTICAL UNIVERSITY: The CVR transcript was leaked way too early in the investigation.

PLEITGEN: The leaked transcript, criticized as mere voyeurism by French investigators, captures the steps 27-year-old Andreas Lubitz took to kill all 150 on board.

Around 10 a.m., the plane takes off from Barcelona. The captain then tells Lubitz he didn't go to the bathroom in Barcelona, and Lubitz replies, "Go any time."

Around 10:27, the plane reaches 38,000 feet, cruising altitude. The captain asks Lubitz to prepare for the landing, and after the check, Lubitz repeats, "You can go now."

Then the captain is heard getting up and saying, "You can take over."

Lubitz, now alone with the door locked, reprograms the autopilot from 38,000 feet to 100 feet, sending the jetliner straight towards the Alps, dropping around 3,000 feet a minute.

Air traffic control tries to contact the plane but receives no answer.

An alarm goes off inside the cockpit warning, "Sink rate." Then a loud bang on the door, the captain screaming, "For God's sake, open the door." Passengers are also heard screaming.

Five minutes before impact, more bangs can be heard, metallic noises as if someone was trying to knock the door down.

Ninety seconds later, another alarm goes off, warning, "Terrain, pull up." The captain again screams, "Open the damn door."

Two minutes before impact, the paper reports Lubitz can be heard breathing, the plane now only 13,000 feet from the ground.

10:40 a.m., investigators believe they hear the plane's right wing scrape a mountaintop then screams once more from the 149 on board. Lubitz apparently stays silent.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PLEITGEN: And Chris, the French investigating authority, the BEA, has come out and said that it is dismayed that any sort of information from the investigation from the cockpit voice recorder could have been released like this. However, they did not question that the quotes that came out are, in fact, authentic, Chris.

CUOMO: And at this point the priority has to be on understanding what was going on the Andreas Lubitz, what was missed, if any opportunity were there, so that this could be prevented. Fred, thank you. We'll check back with you.

And we are learning more details about this co-pilot's mental health illness. Let's get the latest on that from CNN's Pamela Brown. She's live in Dusseldorf, Germany -- Pamela.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Chris, I just spoke to an official from the Dusseldorf prosecutor's office, and we're learning that just about an hour from now, there will be a statement from the prosecutor. That will include new information on the investigation. An official says there will be some news but, quote, "nothing sensational."

I can tell you, officials are being very tight-lipped here in Dusseldorf.

Now, we've been talking to friends, people who knew Andreas Lubitz. And we keep hearing over and over again, he always dreamed of being a pilot. And now we have this brand-new video that CNN obtained, showing him from 2007, as a teenager, smiling, laughing, seemingly enthusiastic about being a pilot.

But then a very different picture. Just a couple years later, from "Le Parisien" newspaper, citing source close to the investigation, he developed severe depressive symptoms, generalized anxiety disorder. The newspaper says in 2010 he had anti-psychotic medical injections. He also reportedly -- there were antidepressants found inside of his apartment.

Now CNN has not been able to independently verify this reporting, but beyond the reported psychological treatments, according to "The New York Times," he also had vision problems. There were doctor's notes, according to the prosecutor here in Dusseldorf, excusing him from work on the day that he crashed the plane.

But I did speak to Lufthansa airline. They say they find it hard to believe that he had vision problems. He passed his certification exam last summer, and of course, his vision was thoroughly checked during that exam -- Michaela.

PEREIRA: So many questions, as they piece together, or at least try to piece together, what happened and what led to this. Thank you so much, Pamela. Meanwhile, the solemn task of collecting human remains and debris at

the crash site continues. Forensic teams now say they've identified about 80 bodies. Our Karl Penhaul spoke with relatives of one of the victims. He's near the crash site this morning -- Karl.

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Michaela, you know, just as we analyze the manner in which these victims died, we must also still try to focus on the way in which they lived, as well. And that's why relatives are coming here to a memorial site. It's about 2.5 miles as the crow flies to the crash site, itself. And I had an opportunity to talk to Mahshid Eslami. Her brother Milad, an Iranian sports journalist, died on that flight. And this is a little of what she had to say about her brother.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAHSHID ESLAMI, SISTER OF CRASH VICTIM: He said to one of his friends that if someone killed in the flight crash, it would be OK, because it's for one minute and he's gone and you are in the sky; your soul will go. And but he has been eight minutes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PENHAUL: Now she like many of the other relatives wanted to know exactly what the place, the crash site was like. What the scenery is around like there? And because I've hiked up there a couple of days ago, I was able to tell her that right now spring flowers are growing. The melting snow is filling crystal streams. And with that, she looked up at the mountains, pointed, and said, "That gives me some comfort. Now I can believe that my brother is king of the Alps."

Back to you, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Karl, that is so touching. So nice that you were able to share with her what you saw up there and give her some comfort. Thank you for telling us about that.

Let's talk about all of this with CNN aviation analyst Miles O'Brien; CNN aviation correspondent Richard Quest. He's also the host of "Quest Means Business." And Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN chief medical correspondent.

Before we get to all of the medical implications of this, Richard, I just want to talk about something you and I were talking about while watching these reports. You don't like that the transcript of this exchange between the pilot and the co-pilot have been released. Why?

RICHARD QUEST, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: No, I don't, because the transcript, the cockpit voice recorder, is one of the most sacrosanct parts of any investigation; and it's released at the end. It's always released. It's not -- this is not a, you know, keep information hidden away, a transparency issue. And we already knew what it said, Alisyn. The prosecutor remarks say last week, told us every single fact.

All we got with the release of the transcript was heart-rendering details, which makes it much more unpleasant for the families. We didn't get a salient new fact. That's the important thing to remember about this.

CAMEROTA: Sanjay, I want to talk to you about what we've learned about the co-pilot and his mental health. According to reports, investigators when they went into his apartment found anti-depressant medication. Similarly, according to other reports, he was on some sort of psychotic drugs, or at least, according to "Le Parisien" newspaper, he had generalized anxiety disorder.

In 2009, he had severe depressive symptoms. And 2010, he received anti-psychotic medication injections. So Sanjay, when you see this, what does all that tell you about what he might -- what symptoms he might have been experiencing?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, when you look at these medications, a lot of times these medications can be used for various mental illnesses. And they can also be used for various severities of a mental illness.

There's one particular medication, the injection that you mentioned, given five years ago, and he would have been 22 or 23 at that time. That is a -- it's a pretty powerful anti-psychotic. It can be used for people who develop a depression that develops into a psychotic depression. So it's not just depression, but people start to have psychosis, which means delusions, hallucination, things like that.

And oftentimes, if they develop extreme agitation associated with that, that's when this medication is injected. And again, we just know of the one time it was injected back five years ago. If it was for a psychosis that was ongoing, the question is that was he continuing to get treated in some way for the psychosis? It is different than the depression.

Depression can be more easily treated. It's not necessarily a lifelong illness. If this was schizophrenia or some other sort of psychosis, those are typically lifelong illnesses that require ongoing treatment.

So Alisyn, I think it speaks to the severity and a little bit more detail on what his mental illness may have been.

CAMEROTA: Miles, when you hear the symptoms -- I'm going to bring you in, Miles -- that -- of delusions, hallucinations, are pilots allowed to be on anti-depressants and antipsychotic drugs?

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Anti-depressants, yes, and that's relatively new, Alisyn. It's just been within the past couple of years that the FAA has come around on this. That was disqualifying up until recently. And as it stands right now, a pilot has to be on the antidepressants for some period of time and evaluated before they can return to the cockpit.

Now, what we're talking about here with Sanjay just a moment ago extends way beyond what would be qualifications for flying, as far as the FAA is concerned. And so, I think, you know, it's just like any disease now. And

they're trying to embrace it like any other disease. If you've hypertension, you take a pill, you can still fly. If you have depression, you can take antidepressant.

As far as taking injections for anti-psychotic, that would probably be disqualifying, although I don't know the exact drug.

CAMEROTA: Go ahead, Richard.

QUEST: I mean, there's -- clearly, the picture of Lubitz, as you were talking earlier, is of a man who should not have been in the cockpit. And the investigation and the inquiry and the air accident investigation must focus on how he ever got into the cockpit in the first place.

CAMEROTA: Miles, help us understand, is there a self-reporting regulation whereby he should have alerted somebody? And if -- is there only self-reporting? Because, obviously, that is not foolproof.

O'BRIEN: That's the system as it stands. You get a psychological exam when you get -- sign up as a pilot. But as you go through your routine medical exams every six months for a first-class medical with a qualified medical examiner, they'll ask you, "How are you feeling?" And that's it. That's the extent of the psychological evaluation.

The rest is left up to pilot-to-pilot interactions. They spend a lot of time together in a small room. And over the years, that has worked as a good check and balance for people who are having a hard time.

What's different in this case is you have a low-cost carrier that put a very inexperienced pilot in that seat, and there was much less vetting time to get him there. He wouldn't have been flying in that seat in the United States. He would have needed more than twice as much time in his logbook and different certifications, sort of the Ph.D. of flying, neither of which he had.

CAMEROTA: Sanjay, another medical complication that has come to light is that, apparently, one of the possible side effects of some of the medication that he was taking is blurred vision. Well, now, if he was experiencing blurred vision, that puts him into this untenable bind. Does he deal with the blurred vision as a pilot, or does he stop taking his meds to get rid of the blurred vision?

GUPTA: That's exactly right. I mean, there are side effects of these medications, and, you know, some of them can be pretty unpleasant side effects. So it's a constant sort of balance, I think, any patient, frankly, in any situation is making, balancing the side effects with the benefits of the medication.

But you're right. Some of these medications that we're talking about are not the more routine sort of medications, especially this Olanzapine. Again, if he was on that, it's a more powerful anti- psychotic. It is associated with various unpleasant side effects, one of which is blurriness of vision. By the way, when you stop taking the medication, the vision does

usually improve. So to your point, Alisyn, that might make someone, you know, obviously in a profession like this, not want to continue taking that medication.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

QUEST: Here we have a pilot who is determined to fabricate, who is determined to avoid, who is determined to lie. You cannot build a system -- you can do the best you can, Alisyn, but you cannot build a system that's going to always capture this sort of pilot. Somebody who is -- in any profession, whether it be journalism, teaching, whatever it is, who is determined to railroad himself through the rules.

CAMEROTA: There's no way to make the system completely immune from risk.

Sanjay, Richard, Miles, we'll leave it there for the moment. We'll talk more about this later on the program. Thanks so much, gentlemen. Let's go back to Chris.

CUOMO: A big question, Alisyn: is Iran just hours away from developing a nuke? That's the fear driving the urgency of negotiations that are down to the wire in Switzerland.

Let's get the latest from CNN's global affairs correspondent, Elise Labott, live in Switzerland. Now Elise, there were reports of three sticking points. You have new information. What is it?

ELISE LABOTT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Chris. I just met with a senior diplomat here at the talks, talking about three sticking points.

No. 1, what happens in the end years of this 15-year deal, years 11 to 15? Iran wants to act as if nothing has happened and go back to doing whatever it wants, particularly advanced research on nuclear technology. The international community wants to keep those restrictions for the duration of the deal.

No. 2 is U.N. Security Council sanctions. Iran wants them lifted them right away, wants to get out of the stigma of U.N. sanctions. International community saying it can -- Iran can receive some economic benefits from the unilateral U.S. and European sanctions, but those U.N. sanctions are in place because of Iran's misbehavior, nuclear technology and missile proliferation; and so that's going to take a little bit of time.

And lastly, what happens if Iran violates that deal? The international communities wants to have what they call a snap back of sanction, and Iran is -- wants those sanctions to just disappear as the deal goes on.

Now, the P5 plus 1 group of ministers met with Iran this morning, expected to meet this afternoon. Very unclear right now whether there will be a deal. The mood has turned a little bit ominous, not as optimistic as they were when these talks started. But they do say that there's a real desire to get a deal here, and they will be going down to the wire.

Back to you, Michaela.

PEREIRA: Elise Labott, our thanks.

Syrian President Bashar al-Assad says that he is open to negotiations with the United States. In an interview with "60 Minutes," Assad claims he's always wanted a good relationship with the U.S.

The White House however, insists any solution to Syria's civil war and the rise of ISIS has to be reached without Assad in power, which Assad refuses to concede. The Syrian leader says despite U.S. airstrikes in the region, ISIS is actually gaining strength.

CAMEROTA: A big oops at Australia's immigration department. An employee mistakenly sent out the personal information of world leaders who attended last year's G-20 summit, including President Obama, to the organizers of the Asian Cup soccer tournament. This includes password numbers and other sensitive information. Australia claims the mess up was caught almost instantly, and the soccer officials deleted the information.

CUOMO: Yes, I'm sure that's over now.

All right. Take a look at this. A firefighter showing how scary the job can be. Watch this. Fire captain just fell through that roof into the inferno. You see it? Battling a house fire in Fresno, California.

Now that's the horror of it. The response equally impressive. Fellow firefighters within minutes tear down the garage door, rescue the captain. This morning, the 25-year vet of the Fresno F.D. is in critical condition in the hospital, third-degree burns that officials say cover him from head to toe.

PEREIRA: If you are a praying person, say a prayer for this captain, 25-year veteran.

CAMEROTA: Oh my gosh, I mean, they deal with this every day. That's what -- it's interesting for us to see what it looks like happening in real time. They do it every day.

PEREIRA: Apparently, a bystander, a former Marine, was able to help out, as well. A bystander, good Samaritan helped in the efforts. And likely saved this man's life.

CAMEROTA: It's incredible.

PEREIRA: Yes.

CAMEROTA: All right. Well, it is down to the wire. A nuclear deal between Iran and the west seems unlikely at this hour. But it does change by the hour. What will happen if the deadline is not met? CUOMO: And here's your chance. You get to hear the question that Indiana's governor refused to answer. Is this law designed to stop the government from telling you how to practice your faith, or is it designed to allow you to avoid gays?

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CUOMO: Talks for a nuclear pact between Iran and the west appear to be running on fumes. Tomorrow is the big deadline, fast approaching, obviously. But are they at an impenetrable impasse?

CAMEROTA: Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson is a former chief of staff to Secretary of State Colin Powell. He's now professor of government and public policy at the College of William and Mary, and he joins us from there.

Colonel, nice to see you.

COL. LAWRENCE WILKERSON, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF FOR SECRETARY POWELL: Nice to be with you, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK. Let's talk about what the "New York Times" is reporting in terms of this deal breaking down. They say this morning that at this late hour, Iran is trying to renege on one portion of the deal. And that is to ship their atomic fuel to Russia so that it would be inaccessible for them. According to "New York Times," Iran no longer wants to do that.

Let me read you what -- a quote they have from the deputy foreign minister, who says, "The exports of stocks of enriched uranium is not in our program, and we do not intend sending them abroad. There is no question of sending the stocks abroad."

What do you make of this report, Colonel?

WILKERSON: My initial impression, as I read about it this morning earlier, that it's a negotiating ploy. In other words, Iran is trying to recoup some ground it may have lost or to gain some ground, period, with regard to some of the more tendentious issues that are before the group right now.

There are alternatives to that, also. So that is not a precluding statement. The alternative, of course, is to dilute the enriched uranium so that it is no longer suitable for weapons production or enriching further to weapons grade. So I think it's probably a negotiating ploy.

CUOMO: The side that doesn't want a deal cut with Iran, they say, in the voice of Speaker John Boehner, "I will squeeze them with sanctions right away.: What do you think would happen if there were harsher sanctions put on Iran?

WILKERSON: I think that would be a violation of the P5 plus 1 Iran agreement on the joint plan of action. So if I were Iran, indeed the other members of the permanent 5 plus Germany, I would point a finger at the United States and say, "You just screwed the pooch." And the United States would be immediately isolated, and we'd wonder

where it would go from there. This is not something that should be done within the framework after things have fallen apart, if, indeed, they do. That's the time to be doing something like that.

CAMEROTA: But in terms of the deal, where do you stand with sanctions? Should all sanctions -- U.S., U.N. -- be lifted from Iran right now?

WILKERSON: No, not at all. It's always been, at last, a going in understanding of all parties that there would be sanctions relieved, both U.N. Security Council sanctions, which are probably the most damaging, and bilateral sanctions, European and U.S. multi-lateral sanctions, as well. There would be relief of those sanctions only as agreed that Iran has done what it was supposed to do over time in accordance with the final agreement.

CUOMO: Colonel, can you relate...

WILKERSON: So that's always been an understanding.

CUOMO: Colonel, can you allay the fears of people when they're hearing about this conversation, which are that you can't trust Iran. They clearly want to do something that we don't want them to do with the centrifuges. That's why they have so many. That's why they're so high end. That's why they've been doing all these things.

Yes, they haven't created a nuke yet by their choice, as far as we can tell. But they will. So any deal that you cut with them, they're just going to find a way to that path. And that's why you can't do a deal. What do you say?

WILKERSON: People are always saying trust but verify, quoting Ronald Reagan, of course. I don't think that's the case here. I don't think you trust at all. You mistrust but you verify. And that's what the essence of this deal is. It is verification in an unprecedented way over a 10- to-15-year period and then continued MPT provisions. And if you don't get that, then you shouldn't accept a deal.

CAMEROTA: So Colonel, tomorrow is the deadline. what do you think's going to happen in the next 24 hours?

Wilkerson: I'm a little more pessimistic now after reading the reports this morning. I was saying 60-40. I think probably more like 50-50 now.

And even if we get an agreement -- let's say that I'm wrong, that it's 80-20 and the 80 proves the side that wins; we get an agreement. We get a political framework, and then we get a framework agreement underneath that, which will include all the technical details. I still think the Congress of the United States is hell-bent to derail it. And I think they will derail it in the period following the agreement.

[07:25:15] CUOMO: But the deadline is really just -- you know, it's in there in place before some action. The media loves it, because it gives us some urgency, but so what if they don't get a deal done by tomorrow? Can't they just keep negotiating?

WILKERSON: I think they should. Because what we've done here is, for the first time in 12-to-15 years, we have essentially frozen Iran's nuclear program. A major achievement.

So if they need to work further on technical details -- and I've seen some of this. I'm not a nuclear expert, but I can tell you the technical details are awfully complicated and complex. So if they need to work another month or two on that, that's fine. So long as Iran continues to be inspected both unannounced and formalized as much as it is now. Because that's an assurance that their program is frozen.

CAMEROTA: Colonel Larry Wilkerson, always great to get your perspective. Thanks so much for being on NEW DAY.

WILKERSON: Thanks for having me.

CAMEROTA: Michaela.

PEREIRA: All right, Alisyn and Chris.

Indiana's governor is facing major backlash after signing and defending a law -- state law that critics say allows discrimination against gays and lesbians. What he has said that's got people fired up. We'll explore.

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