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Indiana Law Discriminates Against Gays; Official: Co-pilot Suffered Depression; Victims of the Plane Crash now King of the Alps; 34-year-old Decorated Army Ranger Shot; African-American Man Bloodied by Police. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired March 30, 2015 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[15:00:00] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: And, Robert, with your legal hat, you can chime in as well, but this is to Russell, because what makes it different in Indiana is that sexual orientation is not covered under Indiana's civil rights law. And I know when -- Governor Pence, when he was pressed on this over the weekend, he said he wouldn't be pursuing that.

As I've mentioned we just heard from the Indianapolis mayor saying, he wants to the law, you know, the one -- pass a lot that protects all who live and work in and visit Indiana to so immediately. So would you be willing to change that part of the law?

RUSSELL MOORE, SOUTHERN BAPTIST ETHICS & RELIGIOUS LIBERTY COMMISSION PRESIDENT: Sexual orientation is not a protected class in many of the states that have religious freedom --

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: But it is in others. Just said.

MOORE: It is in others and it's not at the federal level. And so this hysterical reaction of let's boycott Indiana when we're not boycotting other states and boycotting the United States government is ridiculous. I mean, this is substantial in the exact same law that Barack Obama voted for in Illinois and that President Clinton signed into law at the federal level.

BALDWIN: But in Illinois, that what I just mentioned, you know, not being discredited against gays, that being civil rights issue, that is what makes this so, so different.

MOORE: But this law --

BALDWIN: And that's the key point to point out.

MOORE: But this law does not empower discrimination against anyone. This law simply says the government and the courts need to take into account our religious freedom. That is an important principle of American pluralism. And so the situation right now with this overreaction, it's not just that Jesus wouldn't recognize this, it's the Jefferson wouldn't recognize this overreaction either. We need to have the sort of open public square where we're able to come into it with our religious consequences and convictions intact.

BALDWIN: Robert, back to you. You know, whether you want to calling it, howling at the moon or overreaction, I mean, this is really enlisted an emotional response. This is a political issue. It's just the rhetoric has gotten so totally heated. And I'm wondering, you know, the critics have a fair point when politics is truly -- and emotions have really been injected into both sides of this.

ROBERT KATZ, PROFESSOR, INDIANA UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF LAW PROFESSOR: So I agree with Russell that protecting religious liberty is absolutely essential to what makes America special and important.

BALDWIN: Yes.

KATZ: Fortunately, for Hoosiers, we have a state constitution with its free exercise clause that is even stronger than the federal first amendment. We have a state Supreme Court that interprets Indiana's free exercise clause in a manner that's very protective of religious freedom and we have a state legislature that routinely grants exemptions from general applicable laws when they are thought to burned religious groups.

So I couldn't agree more. The problem here is that we specifically asked the state legislature to state in the statute that this protection of religious freedom did not apply to anti-discrimination laws and they declined to make that amendment. We asked the state legislature to declare in the statue itself that protecting Hoosiers from the wrongful discriminations is compelling state interest. They declined to do this.

This is a law that because Indiana law is so protective of religious freedom in the first place, we didn't need it. And I think it's reasonable for LGBT people to feel that this law under protects them, especially because we specifically asked the state legislature to demonstrate their sensitivity to sexual minorities and they said no. And so, I think it's reasonable for gays and lesbians to be concerned, to feel less and fully welcomed.

BALDWIN: I appreciate both views. I know they are different because (ph) now --

KATZ: And would say at this point --

BALDWIN: Quickly.

KATZ: I would say, moving forward, also, it's no -- it's moved beyond the point where we can amendment the statute that we didn't need in the first place. I think --

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: There have been calls to amend, calls to fix. I don't even know if that will be good enough for some people really at this point.

Russell and Robert, thank you both very much. Next --

KATZ: Well, what I was going to say is --

BALDWIN: OK. Next, the co-pilot accused of taking down flight 9525 suffered from suicidal tendencies according to investigators in mental health problems. But my next guest says don't blame depression. That is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:38:45] BALDWIN: Much attention has been focused on this Germanwings co-pilot, the 27-years-old Andreas Lubitz's state of mind since the deadly crashed in the French Alps last week. Officials are now saying he suffered from suicidal tendencies, underwent psychotherapy long before he received his pilot's license. So that was at least several years ago.

Also according to this French newspaper that CNN cannot independently confirm, five years ago this young man received anti-psychotic injections while suffering from anxiety and severe depression. But some mental health professional say depression rarely leads someone to commit mass murder.

Here now to discuss this Dr. Anne Skomorowsky, assistant professor of psychiatry, practices psychosomatic medicines at New York Presbyterian Hospital. Dr. Skomorowsky, welcome, nice to have you here.

DR. ANNE SKOMOROWSKY, ASSISTANT PROFESSOR, NEW YORK PRESBYTERIAN HOSPITAL: Thank you.

BALDWIN: A lot to go through. And again, so we're clear and we're all on the same page, we don't want to speculate. We only know just bits and pieces of his health mosaic over the last couple few years. We don't know really what's been going on recently with this 27-years- old co-pilot. Let me just begin with this.

We learned from someone close to the investigation in Europe that he had apparently gone to a doctor because he was having vision issues, which obviously seeing is important to fly. And doctors told him it was psychosomatic. What does that mean?

[15:40:00] SKOMOROWSKY: Well, psychosomatic refers to an interaction between the mind, which we call the psyche, and the body, which we call soma. And a psychosomatic problem refers to a problem that occurs in the interface between the mind and the body. So a good example would be something like blushing. That's something everyone has experienced.

BALDWIN: Definitely.

SKOMOROWSKY: When you're embarrassed or uncomfortable, experiencing that kind of emotion, you have a physical response to that where your blood vessels dilate, you feel warm, blood rushes to your face and you blush. That's a psychosomatic experience that every single normal person has had.

BALDWIN: And so if he was apparently, according to this source, really stressed out overwork, somehow that intangible could turn into -- could manifest into a physical into an eye issue? It's a possibility?

SKOMOROWSKY: It's a possibility, sure.

BALDWIN: OK. OK. This French newspaper, as we mentioned -- and again to be clear, this is 2010 since before he even became a pilot -- he had received injections of anti-psychotic meds. Why would one have anti-psychotic injections?

SKOMOROWSKY: Well, as you said, it's important to remember that this is a speculation because --

BALDWIN: Just in general, if you're seeing a patient.

SKOMOROWSKY: If I'm seeing a patient and I see evidence of psychosis, I will sometimes prescribe an anti psychotic medication. What I mean by psychosis is delusions and hallucinations. Anti-psychotic are also prescribed for other indications at times for example, for bipolar- mania. Rarely, they're prescribed for severe anxiety and doctors are allowed to use them for all sorts of off-label uses, including nausea, problems associated with chemotherapy and so on.

BALDWIN: So someone is receiving these injections separate from that we learn he had the suicidal tendencies again years ago, if someone has suicidal tendencies but is getting treatment, could that eventually go away?

SKOMOROWSKY: Could suicidal tendencies resolve with treatment?

BALDWIN: Yes.

SKOMOROWSKY: Absolutely. And that's a major reason that people who are depressed should feel comfortable seeking treatment.

BALDWIN: Yes.

SKOMOROWSKY: We should not allowed stigma to prevent them from this so --

BALDWIN: Which is so important to have you on because my final thought with you is, listen, a lot of people -- we all know people who are being treated for depression and just because someone had been through different depression, you know, some years ago. There are many people with depression who would never in a million years go out and kill 149 other people.

SKOMOROWSKY: That is so true. Depression is very common. Twenty to 30 percent of people will experience a depressive episode in their lifetime. And at any given moment, about six percent of all western people are currently experiencing a major depressive episode. And as you said, most of those people would never -- none of those people will never committed an act like that committed by this co-pilot. People who are depressed should seek treatment because treatment is available and is helpful and depression is wrongly stigmatized.

BALDWIN: Doctor Anne Skomorowsky, thank you so much.

SKOMOROWSKY: You're welcome.

BALDWIN: Important point to make to everyone. I appreciate you.

SKOMOROWSKY: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Next, here on CNN, families of the plane crash victims pay tribute there at the site. One woman says her brother is now the king of the Alps. We'll share some of these stories with you. You're watching CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:47:31] BALDWIN: On the rugged hillside of the French Alps, a grim task continues by the day, the recovery of the remains of the 150 people on board that plane, the Germanwings flight 9525. A team on the ground said they have now identified 78 bodies and the recovery could be complete by the end of this week. We have also just learned that a path is being cleared to the crash site is close to being complete.

Meanwhile, the families, these families continue to gather at the base of the mountain waiting and mourning.

CNN's Karl Penhaul spoke with one family who says they are trying to find solace in the scenery.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A father grieves. A mother and the sister wonder why. Milad Eslami was a sports journalist from Iran. Tamashii, he was big brother.

MAHSHID ESLAMI, MILAD ESLAMI'S SISTER: He said to one of his friends that if someone killed in the flight crash is would be OK because if for one minute and he's gone you are in the sky, then your soul will go. But he has been eight minutes.

PENHAUL: Eight minutes for the co-pilot to crash an airliner into the French Alps. The Milad's uncle, Dawud, prefers to focus on his life, not death.

DAWUD TAWAKOLI, MILAD ESLAMI'S UNCLE: He was a fantastic journalist. And he's still one of the best we have in Iran. And because he worked not only as a journalist, he worked with his heart.

PENHAUL: Milad had been in Spain with friend and a fellow journalist, Hossein Jawadi that taken these photos together. They've been covering the soccer game Barcelona versus Real Madrid. Milad was a lifelong Barcelona fan. His hero --

ESLAMI: Absolutely, miss.

PENHAUL: Local village Mayor Francois Balique is here at a memorial site to help console all the grieving families. And on Sunday, he sent this digger to carve a tract to the crash site. That's around four kilometers or two and a half miles away as the crow flies, but till now accessible only by helicopter.

"I felt the families wanted this, and they asked me to get them as close as possible, as if every meter mattered to them," he says. Relatives asked him to describe the area closest to the crash.

"This was a corner of paradise, but now there is the before and after the accident," he says. "I tell Mahshid and Dawud about the alpine scenery up there but wild flowers grow and melted snow runs in crystal streams.

[15:50:27] ESLAMI: And everything is scared for him but for us, we just can calm ourselves down with these pictures that he's now the king of the Alps.

PENHAUL: Milad and all those who flew with him the kings of the Alps.

Karl Penhaul, CNN, Le Vernet, France.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:54:51] BALDWIN: Wanted to make sure we got this one in today. He is Decorated Army Ranger, one of the officers who hunted the Boston bombers and right now, he's in the hospital after being shot in his face.

We are told a driver, ambushed officer John Moynihan, during a routine traffic stop.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[15:55:08] COMMISSIONER WILLIAM EVANS, BOSTON POLICE: No guns withdrawn, the video is going to clearly show that. The officer was assisting the driver out. And out fabrication as the driver is getting out of the motor vehicle. You can see his right arm come up pointing and shot Officer Moynihan right below the eye.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Officer Moynihan is 34-years of age. The gunman was shot and killed the night of the shooting, officers stood outside the hospital where he had surgery. The bullet lodge behind his ear. And he has said to be in stable condition and improving. Last year in fact, the White House honors Officer Moynihan for his service during the Boston manhunt. He rescued the transit worker who was hurt during the shoot out with the Tsarnaev brothers.

It is a narrative we have certainly heard before here. An African- American man gets pulled over by police and was left swollen, bloody and beaten. He says he was racially profile the victimized. Police say they were feared he was going for a weapon. This time the story is unfolding in the Detroit Suburb and CNN National Reporter Nick Valencia tells the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) NICK VALENCIA, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Fifty-seven year-old, Floyd Dent says he thought he was going to die during a police traffic stop in Suburban, Detroit.

FLOYD DENT, VICTIM: He came cover the gun and told me "I'll blow your brains out get in the car."

VALENCIA: According to a police report, officers say they saw Dent enter a motel in an area known for drug dealing. After he leaves, they pull him over when they say he runs a stop sign. Dent who said he never stopped at the motel and was headed home after work, denies he did anything wrong.

DENT: In a party that's coming on, I didn't really think they were stopping me.

VALENCIA: William Melendez the arresting officer writes he believes Dent was fleeing when he failed to stop right away. Seen here on a police dash cam video, Melendez approaches the car gun drawn as Dent opens his car door and is dragged out.

DENT: So hands out, get kind a out of the car they yank me out of the car, you know, and throws me to the ground and starts beating me upside the head, you know, and choking me. You know, I'm begging for my life. I'm telling the officer I can't breathe.

VALENCIA: But police say he didn't fully comply. According to the police report, Officer Melendez says he saw Dent turn towards the center of the car and feared Dent was reaching for a weapon. Next they say Dent threatens to kill the officers. Melendez says he starts to punch Dent only after Dent quote, "bit down on his forearms." In fear of being bitten again, he writes, "he struck Dent several times with a closed right fist.

DENT: I didn't bite anyone. I didn't tend to bite anyone but (INAUDIBLE) in my head.

VALENCIA: After the incident Dent is shown here swollen, bloody, battered. He spent two days in the hospital. Officer Melendez is shown here on the right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)

In the police report officers say they were only protecting themselves during the January 28th incident but a judge who saw the video dismissed resisting arrest and assault charges after seeing the tape. Dent was charged, however, with possession of crack cocaine after police say they found it under the passenger seat of the car. He's pleaded not guilty.

But Dent's attorney says video of Officer Melendez pulling out what appears to be a plastic baggy from his pocket is proof that the police planted the drugs.

GREG ROHL, FLOYD DENT'S ATTORNEY: We have on video this officer searching the car and testifying "I allegedly I found it under the passenger seat." Of course, my client's fingerprints will not be on the bag, we all know that.

VALENCIA: The drug charge still stands.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We respect our police officers but we do hold them to high standards and we do hold them accountable for their actions as well.

VALENCIA: At a press conference last week, City of Inkster Police and Community leaders set an investigation into the conduct of the officers is underway but will not comment on any specifics.

CHIEF VICKI YOST, INKSTER MICHIGAN POLICE: We started this investigation. We're not hiding from it. And we'll follow the facts and act accordingly.

VALENCIA: Dent has worked at the Ford Motor company for nearly 40 years. He's never before been arrested.

DENT: This is some type of cover up, OK. They try to cover up what they did.

VALENCIA: Melendez, a veteran officer with 24-years of experience, has been put on paid administrative duties until the investigation by Michigan State Police is complete.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VALENCIA: CNN attempted to reach Officer Melendez several times by phone and e-mail and through the police union with no response. On April 1st Floyd Dent is expected to appear in court on that drug charge, Brooke, as a charge he plans to fight -- Brooke.

[15:59:56] BALDWIN: Let's follow up with you Nick Valencia. Thank you so much. Great reporting.

I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for being with me here on a Monday. A lot still to cover today. Stay with CNN "THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts right now.