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Germanwings Co-pilot "Unfit to Work"; Airlines Adopt Rule 2 People Required in Cockpit; Iran Nuclear Deal Close as Saudi Air Strike in Yemen; Answering View Questions on Flight 9525; New Details in Bergdahl Case. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired March 27, 2015 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:31:31] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer, reporting from Washington.

We're getting stunning new revelations about the co-pilot of Germanwings flight 9525. A medical doctor found Andreas Lubitz, quote, "unfit to work." This, according to a letter found today in a waste bin in his apartment in Germany. Prosecutors say other documents reveal the 27-year-old had a medical illness that he hid from his employers. Investigators also found torn-up medical excuse notes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTOPH KUMPA, DUSSELDORF PUBLIC PROSECUTOR (through translation): We've secured documents that indicate a medical illness. We also found sick notes that were torn to pieces. Among the sick notes was one which covered the day of the crash. We assume the deceased kept his illness secret from his employer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: In another major development, Lufthansa, the parent company of Germanwings, and other airlines now around the world have adopted a new rule. They now require two people to be in the cockpit at all times.

Let's get a closer look at the co-pilot's medical condition. With us, our CNN aviation analyst, Peter Goelz, a former managing director of the NTSB, the National Transportation Safety Board. Also joining us, the clinical psychologist, Dr. Ruth Wintersgreen. She also served in the United States Air Force.

Ruth, thanks very much for joining us.

Peter, glad to have you as well.

This declaration by a medical doctor, unfit to work, we're now learning that they're saying in Germany he was not suffering from depression. So what else could have caused a doctor, let's say, to say he's unfit to work? RUTH WINTERSGREEN, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST & FORMER AIR FORCE OFFICER:

First of all, we don't know if this was a psychiatrist, psychologist or --

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: We only know it was a medical doctor, yes.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: It could be a physical --

WINTERSGREEN: It could be a thousand different things.

BLITZER: or emotional or psychological parts. You're a psychologist. If he's not suffering from depression -- this is hypothetical -- what potentially could he have been suffering from?

WINTERSGREEN: Any number of things, anxiety, PTSD, it could be his being very upset, disturbed by a break-up. Speaking from an emotional standpoint. But also I wouldn't rule out given the seriousness of the act that it was life-threatening or disabling medical condition that he was facing that generated a great deal of anger.

BLITZER: And that he hid from his employers.

WINTERSGREEN: Yes.

BLITZER: You've dealt with pilots. You served in the U.S. Air Force and have given counseling pilots.

WINTERSGREEN: It's an enormously stressful job. Most handle it very well. But it is something that probably most could benefit from occasional intermittent psych psychotherapy is many of us could in stressful, demanding positions or --

BLITZER: But the problem is, correct me if I'm wrong, Ruth, sometimes if they let their employer know they're suffering from these psychological issues, that could be a career ender.

WINTERSGREEN: Exactly. And I think that's a possible benefit in this tragedy, would be to change the attitudes about seeking mental health care for the interest of public safety. Considering medications is one issue. That I'm not going to address so much. But psychotherapy really doesn't have any negative side effects.

BLITZER: The issue of medication, let's say we determine -- they find out what medications he may have been taking, is it possible those medications could have caused this kind of tragedy?

[11:35:16] WINTERSGREEN: That's probably a remote -- if used as prescribed, that's a pretty remote possibility.

BLITZER: "As prescribed," key words.

WINTERSGREEN: As prescribed, key words. One thought that I had had in evaluating this case, prior to being interviewed was -- and prior to the things that have come out over the course of today, is that if he were sleep-deprived, one problem that I have seen in individuals in various stressful occupations where there's sleep deprivation is sleep deprivation plus the use of amphetamines or an extreme amount of caffeine can lead to psychosis. So that was a thought. But as prescribed, I don't think a typical anti-anxiety medication, for instance, would cause this kind of behavior.

BLITZER: Peter, when you were at the NTSB, the National Transportation Safety Board, you did a lot of investigations of these crashes and got a look at the records of pilots and co-pilots. You hear this kind of conversation. What goes through your mind?

PETER GOELZ, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: We do. I hope there is a national reassessment of how pilots -- and it is a stressful job. How pilots can seek help without putting their careers in jeopardy. I work with pilot unions. I work with flight attendant unions. And the idea of showing weakness or showing that you have a problem really is a threatening thing when they feel as though their career is on the line. And they tend not to do it. And the medical check-ups that they have each year are not rigorous enough, for the same reason.

BLITZER: Ruth, Peter, we'll continue our conversation. We're getting new information. Stand by for that.

We're also following this other story involving the U.S. relationship with Iran. As we just heard from Senator Corker, the chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, that relationship is tangled right now. How do the developments in Yemen, Iraq, elsewhere, impact the U.S. relationship with Iran? And what affect will they have on other allies in the region and on this emerging nuclear deal? Stay with us.

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[11:40:20] BLITZER: We'll have much more on the plane crash in the French Alps, that's coming up, plus, your questions about the investigation in just a few minutes.

But there's developing news in the Middle East with Yemen, Saudi Arabia and Iran, the U.S.'s partners and Iran are nearing a deadline for that so-called framework, a nuclear deal.

Here in "The Situation Room," I spoke with the Saudi Arabian ambassador to the United States about the deal. Listen to Adel al Jubeir.

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ADEL AL JUBEIR, SAUDI ARABIAN AMBASSADOR TO THE U.S.: We hope this pans out. Everybody wants a peaceful solution to Iran's nuclear program but it has to be a serious and solid agreement that is verifiable. We're also just as concerned about the interference by Iran in the affairs of other countries in the region, whether it's Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Yemen, and other parts. We believe that Iran's behavior does not -- is not reassuring to people in the region.

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BLITZER: Let's talk about the nuclear options, Saudi air strikes that are under way in Yemen right now.

Joining us from New York, our CNN global affairs analyst, Bobby Ghosh, the managing editor of "Quartz." Also joining us, our terrorism analyst, Paul Cruickshank; and from Little Rock, Arkansas, the former NATO supreme allied commander, retired general, Wesley Clark, the author of the new book "Don't Wait for the Next War."

General Clark, you heard Senator Corker a few minutes ago, right here on CNN, he's the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations committee, say he's concerned the Obama administration, in effect, is trying to rearrange the U.S. relationships in throughout the Middle East, weaken Israel to a certain degree and strengthen Iran. I'm paraphrasing. But you're reaction?

GEN. WESLEY CLARK, FORMER NATO SUPREME COMMANDER & AUTHOR: I don't think that's the case. I think what the Obama administration is trying to do is reduce the geostrategic conflict throughout the region. And that's to everyone's benefit if we can do this.

We had, before 1978-'79, we had a great relationship with Iran. There are a lot of positive pro-American feelings there. Saudi Arabia is our long-time friend and ally. We used to look at the Middle East as two pillars. Both Saudi Arabia and Iran were U.S. allies. So if we could get back to that and obviously maintain a strong Israel and deal with the conflict in Syria, all those things are positive.

But we can't put ground troops in. We have to work on the margins. We have to work through diplomacy, economic assistance and, where we can, military support. That's what the Obama administration is doing. It's a tough, tough strategy to follow.

BLITZER: Bobby Ghosh, the administration clearly would like to see a positive spin-off from this emerging nuclear deal and see Iran become a more constructive partner, shall we say, or player throughout the region. A lot of people are saying that's simply wishful thinking on the part of some Obama administration officials. Your thoughts?

BOBBY GHOSH, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Yeah, I would tend to agree with those people. I think it is very much wishful thinking. The Obama administration is hoping that Iran, once these sanctions are removed, will take the money and help build an economy, free their people, give people more opportunities and there will be economic reforms to follow. All Iran wants is the money. They're not promising any of these other things. They've been blunt and clear about what they want. They want to expand their influence in the Middle East. We are seeing that with every step they do. We can't blame the Iranians in the future of hiding their intentions. They're being very clear. It's we, or the administration, that is taking the view that, oh, things are not what they seem. Things are better than they appear to be.

BLITZER: Paul, you also heard Senator Corker of the foreign relations committee say the Iranians are about to get, if this deal goes through and these sanctions are eased, about $180 billion pretty quickly -- that's a lot of money for Iran. Have you seen any evidence and you study terrorism right now, that Iran is reducing its support for international terrorism, the State Department considers Iran to be a state sponsor of terror?

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, that's the sort of $64,000 question, whether Iran is going to be more pragmatic in the future if there is some kind of nuclear deal. Obviously, the hope would be that they would be more pragmatic in the future, that they would reduce the money going to terrorist groups like Hezbollah, and that they would try and persuade groups like Hezbollah not to get involved in these kind of international terror operations. Hezbollah has been accused of several operations even in Europe, even in Bulgaria. So that all remains to be seen -- Wolf?

[13:44:56] BLITZER: What about what's going on right now, General Clark, in Yemen? The Saudis have put together a coalition with Egypt, Jordan, the United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Bahrain. They're clearly trying to go in there and fight what they regard as Iranian proxies, these Shiite Houthi rebels. It looks like a proxy war, if you will.

CLARK: It is a proxy war. But this is going to be a very tough problem for Saudi Arabia and Egypt to solve because they're not in that country. And their troops, even though they may speak Arabic, they're foreign troops in that country.

So this is one more example of stirring the pot. It's going to likely provoke continuing Iranian efforts to defend what they see as their interests through the Shia population. It's going to likely involve some other threats to the Saudi system, let's say in Bahrain, through the Shia in Bahrain, or maybe even difficulties in the Gulf-rich eastern province of Saudi Arabia where there's a large Shia population. So the Saudis are well aware of this. They know what can happen. They see this as their vital interest but it's going to be a very tough fight.

BLITZER: The Saudis are nervous about a lot that's going on, Bobby Ghosh. As you well know, last night, I interviewed the Adel al Jabeir, the Saudi ambassador to the United States, and I specifically asked him a few times, if you don't like this deal that the U.S. and other members of the Security Council and Germany are putting together with Iran, could that lead to Saudi Arabia developing its own nuclear bomb? And I pressed him. And he refused to rule it out. He just didn't want to discuss that. But a lot of people are worried if the Saudis don't like this deal and some other countries, Egypt, for example, they may go that nuclear route as well. What do you say?

GHOSH: The Saudis are allowed to enrich uranium at the moment because they're members of the nonproliferation treaty. Whether they'll go all the way towards getting a bomb themselves or turn to their traditional allies in these matters, which is Pakistan. The Saudi military and the Pakistani military are quite close, in recent days, quite senior Pakistani generals have visited Saudi Arabia. They have that other option as well. Sure, if they believe the Iranians are going to break out and make a dash for nuclear weapons, the Saudis are going to want it. Whether they want their own or whether they want Pakistan's, we'll see.

BLITZER: They're calling it a war in Yemen right now.

Bobby Ghosh, thanks very much for joining us.

Paul Cruickshank, General Clark, always good to have all of you here on CNN.

Up next, much more on the deliberate crash in the French Alps. We'll answer your questions. Should it be required to alert an airline if one of the pilots is considered to be unfit to fly? Stay with us.

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[13:51:23] BLITZER: The Germanwings flight 9525 crash investigation is raising lots of questions. CNN wants to answer some of yours. We've been asking you to submit questions about the crash on Twitter.

Let's bring back our panel for answers. Joining us here in D.C., our law enforcement analyst, Tom Fuentes; our aviation analyst, Peter Goelz; and the clinical psychologist, Ruth Wintersgreen.

Peter, here's a question from Stephen. "Should a pilot's medical examiner be mandated to contact the pilot's employer if medically unsafe to fly?"

GOELZ: That's a good question. This whole issue of medical examinations, the annual review pilots have will be relooked at. We have to take it more seriously.

BLITZER: Here's a question, Ruth, from Derrick. "Why don't airlines have their own doctors so they can report pilot's health or doctors who report to the airlines?" A follow-up to the other question.

WINTERSGREEN: This is a very important question. When I was in the military deciding thinking of whether I wanted to be a psychologist in the military or not, outside the military, this changed -- this turned my decision because the kind of foundation of psychotherapy of clinical psychology is confidentiality and the safety and security with certain distinct limitations. If there's clear and intended victim, if someone is expressing intent to harm, the Terasoft Act (ph) requires we report and warn the victims. In the absence of that, there's some gray area. The problem with having someone associated with their work evaluating is people just won't tell. People won't come forward.

BLITZER: They will be afraid if they think this is a career ender --

WINTERSGREEN: Right.

BLITZER: -- they'll lose their jobs.

Let me get this for you, Tom. This is from Mark. "Why not design a cockpit with a bathroom, food station, et cetera? Remove the reasons a pilot would need to leave the cockpit?" FUENTES: That's a great idea. It would cost billions of dollars, but

it's a great idea. Put a bathroom in there, some kind of a drive-up window where they could slide food or coffee trays into them while in flight, or equip with Depend underwear, one or the other.

BLITZER: You told me one airline already does that.

GOELZ: That's right. EL AL has a version of that, in which they have -- there's a center piece that passengers can't access, pilots can get up and leave go back and use the restroom without any contact with the cabin.

BLITZER: Because EL AL, the Israeli airlines, are under security issues as well.

Ruth, do you know if pilots routinely go through drug screening?

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: I know in the Air Force they do. You served in the Air Force.

WINTERSGREEN: Yes.

BLITZER: I'm sure they do there. What about pilots in the commercial sector?

WINTERSGREEN: They do, but I don't know the time line as it stands now. I know regulations change. Also, I'm not sure what types of medications they test for. For instance, my concern would be extreme caffeine use and energy drinks with someone sleep deprived or in a terrible emotional state, could trigger an event that's violent.

[13:54:24] BLITZER: We're going to continue these questions here on CNN. We are getting a ton on Twitter from viewers. That one was from Jodi Perry.

All of you stand by.

Up next, we've got news coming up about what led up to Bowe Bergdahl's disappearance in Afghanistan. There's new information coming up.

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BLITZER: We're getting details about U.S. Army Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl, the moments leading up to his disappearance in Afghanistan in 2009.

Let's get to our Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr.

What are you finding out, Barbara?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Quick update, Wolf. We are finding that the Army investigation report includes claims by Bergdahl he left the base in 2009 because he wanted to walk to the nearest U.S. military outpost in Afghanistan and report what he believed to be poor leadership, poor leader and discipline in his unit. He left the base to find outpost to report that. That's the claim in the Army investigation report of what Bergdahl has told investigators. This may be the first indication we have of the Bergdahl defense of what happened, why he left the base, why he says he left the base. Whether it proves to be valid, whether it proves to be any acceptable defense to the U.S. military justice system, which has now charged him with desertion, all of that remains to be seen in the legal proceedings against Bergdahl. We're hearing what his intent was. He felt poor discipline and poor order in his unit. He was walking to the next unit in the middle of Taliban country to try and report it. That's the claim -- Wolf?

[13:59:46] BLITZER: And still, he was charged with desertion. A lot of people in the U.S. military didn't necessarily believe him.

Much more coming up later today as well.

Barbara, thank you.

That's it for me. I'll be back at 5:00 p.m. eastern in "The Situation Room."

For our international viewers, CNN "News Center" is coming up next.

For our viewers in North American, "Newsroom" with Brooke Baldwin starts right now.