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Germanwings Unaware of Co-pilot Illness; Andreas Lubitz Trained in Arizona; Friends Shocked by Alleged Lubitz Actions; Pilotless Planes Proposed to Keep You Safe. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired March 27, 2015 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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[14:33:53] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Bottom of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Officials from Germanwings parent company said they did not know that a sick note revealing tht the co-pilot of flight 9525 should not have been at work the day, according to prosecutors, the day he crashed the plane into the French Alps. A police search at Andreas Lubitz's apartment turned up new evidence including a medical letter which was found cut up and in the trash bin in his apartment saying he was medically, quote, unquote, "unfit to work." Yet, the CEO of Lufthansa says work records show he was fit to fly. So where's the disconnect? What happened here?

An aviation medical examiner with 28 years experience spoke said the U.S. system relies on self reporting. She spoke earlier to my colleagues, John Berman and Kate Bolduan.

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JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: If you do not come forward with the truth, is there my kind of safety net to detect it within the system?

[14:34:55] JACQUELINE BRUNETTI, SENIOR AVIATION MEDICAL EXAMINER: Well, it's -- that's a very good question. I think that the issues that are placed on the pilot with respect to a $25,000 fine if they lie, if there is an accident down the line, they may not be insurable, which is another issue these pilots need to keep in mind. There's no strict psychological screen. We usually ask general questions. How is their health? How are they feeling? Is there anything stressful in their lives? But, again, it's the self-reporting piece that's so critical in all of this.

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BALDWIN: Lubitz began working for Lufthansa in 2013. Part of the training involved time in the United States.

Sara Sidner is in the town of Goodyear, Arizona, west of Phoenix, with part of his training there.

And let's begin with, Sara, how long was he at this facility in Arizona? SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: According to Lufthansa, he had to be

here at least six months. In order for the company to say you're ready to fly, each of their pilots has to train here at least six months. We have been walking around campus here. There are pilots from all over the world that come here to train. There are dorms here. People do stay here when here for training. There are small planes here. These are the planes pilots still train on to this day. This facility has been here some 40 years. For decades, it's had a connection to Phoenix.

You may be asking why Phoenix? What is here when a pilot is coming from Germany? What's here is that for most of the year, 365 days, particularly here, -- look at the skies. Clear skies. Don't have big weather problems generally. You can just about fly every day of the year. They like to have that option. They also have a lot of space, big facility here. They can house quite a few people here as well.

As far as what happened when he stopped -- because we do know he stopped his training at some point. No one so far has come out with the information as to why he stopped his training. We know he started training somewhere around 2008. And that training was stopped somewhere in 2009. We don't know if it was stopped while he was here on campus in Arizona or when he went back to Germany. We know, according to a former trainer for Lufthansa, who worked here a couple of decades ago, he said things haven't changed much. Normally, people who come here from Germany, students tht come here, come here out almost straight of what we would consider high school in the United States. They are the brightest of the bright. These are considered really good jobs in Germany and around the world. And there's a lot of training that goes on here. They end up doing 300-400 hours of training here at this facility -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: All this information. Why? Why would someone do this?

Sara Sidner, thank you very much, in Arizona.

As this evidence here is mounting, blaming the co-pilot for the crash, those that knew him can't believe what they're her hearing. An acquaintance said Andreas Lubitz always looked well.

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UNIDENTIFIED FRIEND OF ANDREAS LUBITZ: Very healthy guy. Doesn't smoke. I can't imagine he was mentally ill, depressed and sad. He doesn't seem like it. I was shocked when I hear that.

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BALDWIN: We also know officials from the Dusseldorf University Hospital Clinic that saw him in February and March said that reports of treating him for depression "are baseless," quote, unquote.

With me now, David Katz, former senior special agent at the DEA and currently the CEO of Global Security Group with more on this investigation. David, lots of questions for you. First, the fact that investigators have found no suicide note. In what appears to be mass-murder situations, is that common or --

DAVID KATZ, CEO, GLOBAL SECURITY GROUP & FORMER SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT, DEA: It is common.

BALDWIN: It is?

KATZ: There are many, many mass-murder situations where there are no notes found. They're making statements by actions. Sometimes they're not intent on suicide. In this case, it appears he was. Sometimes it's mass murder, and suicide to avoid capture. Who knows what the motivating factor is. It's not uncommon not to get a note.

BALDWIN: There's reports there was a girlfriend. I imagine she's on the list. Who else?

KATZ: Anyone that knows him in any way, shape, form. The closer, thse people, family members, friends, pilots he flew with, these people will be interviewed to see if there's something that was missed. This gentleman on the screen saying he --

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[14:39:52] BALDWIN: All these people, people at the flight club, people in the town. No red flags on the surface. They're looking in his apartment. What are they looking for? What's the number-one treasure trove potential for an item there?

KATZ: My first thought is get to his hard drive. See what he was searching on the Internet. You can imagine. When you're home alone cruising the Internet, it gives someone else later on a great look into your state of mind. Let's say he was researching former mass murders. Maybe he had an ongoing dispute with his girlfriend. Instant messages will illuminate to that issue. Other things you may look for, narcotics, prescription drugs. Maybe he was treated for depression, maybe schizophrenia, something worse. Those may jump to mind that could unlock the key to what was going on with this guy.

BALDWIN: Is there anything you read into the fact that apparently the doctor that gave him the sick note, the medical saying he was unfit to work. He had thrown it away in his trash bin in his apartment. He cut it up and threw it away. Is that a sign of anything?

KATZ: Maybe anger toward that doctor. That doctor that says you're mentally unfit to fly. We're assuming it's a mental reason. He enacts out in anger.

BALDWIN: We don't know. Let's be clear, we don't know.

KATZ: But the issue, the whole idea the doctor says you're not fit to fly, take this to your boss and make sure they take you off rotation, that's insanity. I think that ultimately led to death of 150 people, unfortunately.

BALDWIN: David Katz, thank you very much.

KATZ: Thank you for having me.

BALDWIN: Next, one proposed plan to avoid the intentional crashing of planes by pilots is planes without pilots. You've heard of driverless cars. Think about this one. Would you be comfortable being on a plane without a pilot? That's next.

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[14:46:04] BALDWIN: As you're hearing, all these reports investigators are saying the intentional downing of the German airliner, you might be wondering could more be done from the ground to keep pilot or terrorists from crashing a plane? In this case, prosecutors say the co-pilot, whose doctor deemed him unfit to work, activated the descent A website that tracts activation data says someone in cockpit reprogrammed the auto pilot to drop from what it was, attitude at 38,000 feet to that lowest number you can program it to, 100 feet. AS it turns out, technology does exist that would allow a plane to be control remotely from the ground, but that also poses its own set of challenges that we'll get into.

I've got Tom Foreman with me, along with CNN safety analyst and former FAA safety inspector, David Soucie.

But, Tom Foreman, you're up first with explaining to me one potential idea.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: One potential idea is to say there's technology that can do this. It exists, and big names like Boeing, Google, BAE are all experimenting with this, and a lot of others are as well. The idea to control a plane and control it from the ground with the pilot there would have applications now, maybe in cargo planes, planes in hazardous circumstances, like hurricane hunter or flying into wildfires. The technology exists there. Extending this into passenger planes is really tricky, Brooke, because there are unanswered questions about how safe that would be.

BALDWIN: So here is where I turn to you, David Soucie. I have to wonder, if you have the possibility to override, say for example in this case a, if you have the co-pilot turning the knob down to 100 feet. The person on the ground has the chance to override that and turn it back.

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: That's a complex thing to do. You have the weight of is automation doing the right thing or pilot doing the right thing. I buy on the side of the pilot. I see the need might exist. The pilot has to have the need to go down to 100 feet. If he can't, he may not be able to land at sea level, ever. So he has to be able to go to zero. If he's at a higher land and he says I want to go down, override it. What's the chance he does perhaps want to land and it overrides and he goes up into another aircraft's area? So that's one of a thousand different considerations.

BALDWIN: I keep thinking of the Miracle on the Hudson. Captain Sully Sullenberger, really reaching into his pilot instincts and pulling that off.

SOUCIE: That was manual. I mean --

BALDWIN: That was manual.

SOUCIE: Yes.

BALDWIN: Imagine someone on the ground saying, uh oh, and trying to override. Who knows what might have happened.

SOUCIE: Exactly right. It's like automatic brakes on cars, they bother me. If it brakes for me, and a car is coming this way, I want to get out of the way. I try to disarm those on my cars.

(LAUGHTER)

BALDWIN: Foreman, jump in.

FOREMAN: You may be talking about two different things here, David. One is a fully robotic system that automatically does things. The other possibility is a human-based system that's not on the plane. Basically, you have ground controllers that say, if you have a plane doing something really unusual and won't communicate and tell us what's going on, then we take over. So Captain Sully Sullenberger can say, I've got an emergency and going to land on the Hudson. They say, go ahead. If a plane starts circling around towards Manhattan or Boston and it won't answer, they take over and say that plane is under our control and we're flying it somewhere else.

SOUCIE: And, Tom, Boeing developed one of these, not long ago, the Boeing uninterruptable auto pilot, the BLAP (ph). But it told exactly what you just described. The FAA didn't approve it. They didn't want it because it created more vulnerabilities than it did better things. It's like the old adage that just because you can doesn't mean --

[14:50:06] BALDWIN: You should.

SOUCIE: Right.

(CROSSTALK)

SOUCIE: And the reliability of this technology is still up in the air. We don't have the exact numbers out of the military with their drones but drones are having problems. The numbers look to me too high to be acceptable in commercial aviation at this point.

BALDWIN: OK.

Tom Foreman and David Soucie, thank you very much.

Let me turn now to the focus of victims' of this tragedy because for some family members the southern French Alps may be their loved ones' final resting place. Lufthansa, which owns Germanwings, has commissioned flights and buses to the crash site for grieving relatives. The father of Robert Oliver Kalvo (ph), one of three Americans on board, said, although he is grieving, he doesn't feel anger towards the flight's co-pilot.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT TANSILL OLIVER, FATHER OF VICTIM: I don't feel anger. I'm really sad for the father, the parents of that young pilot. I mean, I can't imagine what they're going through right now, as well as our companions here. They're all feeling, hurting. No, we don't feel anger.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: As each day passes, we're learning more about the lives lost on this flight. Carol Friday (ph) was a maternal health nurse from Australia. Paul Brandley (ph) had finished first year of college in the U.K. Maria Radner (ph) and Oliver Rajec (ph) were two very accomplished German opera singers.

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(SINGING)

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[14:57:45] BALDWIN: Here is Dr. Sanjay Gupta with this week's "Human Factor."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Jamie Grace grew up wanting to be a singer and song writer.

(SINGING)

GUPTA: Before she could pursue a career in music, she got news that put her dreams on hold. At the age of 12, Jamie was diagnosed with Tourette's syndrome.

JAMIE GRACE, HAS TOURETTE'S SYNDROME: All I found were clips from movies of actors yelling and cursing. I remember seeing them and crying my eyes out.

GUPTA: Instead of letting her condition silence her, she turned to YouTube.

(SINGING)

GUPTA: Two years after her diagnosis, she began posting videos of herself singing.

(SINGING)

GUPTA: She got the attention of record labels and an online audience.

GRACE: I didn't blow up like Justin Bieber did, but I had a really cool response.

GUPTA: Now she's using her stage and her story to inspire others.

(SINGING)

GUPTA: Jamie started her own foundation, I'm a Fighter.

GRACE: It's daily stories of fighters, a little kid with cancer or a hardworking father.

(SINGING)

GRACE: I really hope that my songs connect with people. I want to bring them encouragement.

GUPTA: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN reporting.

(APPLAUSE)

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BALDWIN: We continue on. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Top of the hour. You're watching CNN.

Our breaking news coverage, the downing of the Germanwings 9525. Here's what we have today. Another shocking development about the 28- year-old co-pilot that investigators believe deliberately took down the plane. Here's what we know. He ripped up documents. These documents were found in the home of 27-year-old Andreas Lubitz.

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CHRISTOPH KUMPA, PROSECUTOR: We have found a letter that indicated he was declared by a medical doctor unfit to work that were found slashed in a trash bin. So we have reason to believe that he hid his illness from the -- from the company he was working for.

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