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CNN NEWSROOM

Examining Police Protests; North Korean Leader Heading to Russia; ISIS Claims Responsibility for Tunisia Attack. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired March 19, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[15:00:00] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Thank you for being with me. We have to begin with what happened in Charlottesville, Virginia, and this bloody arrest of an unarmed University of Virginia student. We will play part of the video for you in just a moment, but this whole arrest here is now prompting Virginia's governor to call for an independent investigation of his own alcohol beverage control officers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: Shut it down! Shut it down!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Hundreds of students at UVA there protested last evening over the arrest of UVA junior Martese Johnson. Johnson's ordeal began the previous night after he was turned away from a pub just across the street from the university.

These ABC agents then approached him. And when you look at the court documents here, they indicate that Johnson was swearing and was -- quote -- "very agitated and belligerent." His attorney says officers forced Johnson to the ground, smacked him on the head, and I should say smacked his head on the pavement and that then opened a gash. Here's the video. This would what happened afterward.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yo, his head is bleeding! Yo, his head is bleeding!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I go to UVA (EXPLETIVE DELETED). I go to UVA (EXPLETIVE DELETED). I go to UVA (EXPLETIVE DELETED). You racist. How does this happen? How does this happen, you (EXPLETIVE DELETED) racist?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Agents charged Johnson with some misdemeanors, obstruction of justice, public intoxication. But earlier today, university official told CNN this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARCUS MARTIN, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA: Now, at the time, the ABC officers may have felt that he was intoxicated, but as it turns out from the information I received, his blood alcohol level was not that of an intoxicated person.

(CROSSTALK)

MARTIN: And it was not his blood alcohol level. Basically, it was a Breathalyzer test.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: The agents involved are now on administrative leave.

And joining me now from Charlottesville, Martese's roommate, university student Joshua Kinlaw.

Joshua, welcome.

JOSHUA KINLAW, ROOMMATE OF MARTESE JOHNSON: Hi, Brooke, how are you doing?

BALDWIN: I'm doing OK. Let's talk about your friend. Let's be clear just to all of our viewers you were not there the night of the incident. I know there is an investigation under way. Can you share with me what Martese told you what happened to him?

KINLAW: I'm not at liberty to discuss that at the moment, out of respect for his privacy and the respect of the privacy of his attorney as well.

They do not want anyone speaking on the actual incident itself. So I can speak with you about feelings I had when I heard about the incident or what the UVA community and Charlottesville community is doing to try to rectify the situation.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Let's begin with you personally because I know you have talked to Martese. I understand and I understand you're trying to respect their rights of both your friend and his attorneys. How did you feel then once you heard this story firsthand?

KINLAW: Well, I was -- my initial response when I saw the video was anger, shock, disbelief.

I was upset and but I was also very frightened because this is something going on across the nation for some time now and a lot of people have tried to break it down as, oh, it's just an isolated incident here and there that's happening here and there and, oh, it could never happen here. I have talked with a lot of students here at UVA and they have tried to me, oh, that's not something that could happen here, like racism is dead. No, like that can't happen here.

But it just happened here and we just witnessed it. And it's so sad that it took something like this to happen here for people to finally wake up and open their eyes and see that it is in fact still happening and that we need to do something about it.

BALDWIN: Joshua, let me ask you, when you're saying this is something that is happening nationwide and now it's finally happened here, are you referring to what specifically?

KINLAW: I'm referring to police brutality specifically.

I know that it's been happening all across the nation and with Eric Garner, Anthony Hill, just a lot of misuse of authoritative power by the police force specifically. And like I said, it's happening everywhere. And until it happened here, people were just so closed- minded to the idea that it is very real.

And it scared me because when I saw the video and I saw his face, I said, wow, like, that could have been -- easily been me or, even worse, like what if his head had hit the pavement the wrong way and he had ended up with a concussion or even worse? He could have ended up dead. That scares me, that frightens me to know that there's people in this world that have that type of authoritative and dominative power over me as a human being and them being human beings, they have that power over me and I can do nothing about to stop it. That scares me and it also angers me.

[15:05:10] BALDWIN: I understand your anger. I understand that you're frightened. I heard similar sentiments from a student last hour. I'm trying to get the full story, as I know the university is, I know you want.

Again, hearing one side from Martese Johnson and what you see, obviously, the pictures are difficult to look at of your friend. At the same time, you read these court documents of what happened that night, again saying Johnson was profanely swearing, was -- quote -- "very agitated and belligerent."

Did he mention any of that to you?

KINLAW: Yes. He did.

I mean, how do you think anybody would have reacted having their head slammed into the ground? That's not something that any police officer has the right to do to a human being. Regardless of anything -- there's nothing that he could have said or done to provoke that type of treatment. As a human being, he is not -- he is worth more than that.

We are all worth more than that. And we deserve equal treatment under the law, just like everyone else. And that's the message that we're trying to spread to the nation and to the world.

BALDWIN: Joshua Kinlaw, thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

KINLAW: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Got to move to a different kind of disturbing development here. ISIS has now claimed responsibility for the bloody museum massacre in Tunisia.

In this new audio message that has been posted online, ISIS says it's behind the attack that killed now at least 23 people, most of them tourists visiting from countries outside of Tunisia. While CNN cannot confirm the authenticity of this audio recording, what we do know is that nine people are currently under arrest as the leader of Tunisia sending in the army to guard major cities across the country.

Want to go to the Pentagon to our correspondent there, Barbara Starr.

Barbara, what are U.S. officials telling you about this ISIS audio statement and the validity of this?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, they are looking at it. Right now, they say they have no reason to doubt it, but can't verify it either.

What they're looking at is the ISIS media organization that posted it trying to make a determination and analysis if that is an organization that has in the past got a track record of posting authentic ISIS messages. That's step number one.

But having no reason in particular to doubt it, of course, the big question is, a lot of incidents that we have seen in recent months, people claim, attackers claim to be part of ISIS. That doesn't necessarily mean, you know, that they are directly ordered by ISIS back in Syria or Baghdad. There are militant organizations across North Africa, including in Tunisia, and they certainly do have ISIS adherents, ISIS followers, if they're not those central ISIS members themselves.

So a lot to unpack here, the Tunisian authorities moving to try and arrest people and find out really who was behind all of this -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Barbara Starr, we will keep in close contact with you. Thank you very much in the Pentagon for that.

Just ahead here, Kim Jong-un is indeed going to Russia. So what will happen if the North Korean dictator meets Vladimir Putin?

Plus, it is the movement born from the protests in Ferguson from last fall. But is "Hands up, don't shoot" a lie? Is it a false narrative? One columnist is now apologizing. We will talk to Don Lemon. He is going to be exploring this in detail tonight on his show. We will get a preview.

Coming up next, I read something today. I'm angry. You know the fraternity accused of posting those nude pictures of unconscious women on Facebook? Well, now one of its members just gave this interview saying no one did anything wrong. By the way, he blames not only the media, but history for his behavior. Nancy Grace will join me.

No mercy -- next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [15:13:10] BALDWIN: Welcome back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke

Baldwin.

Penn State's chapter of Kappa Delta Rho fraternity now on one-year suspension because of photos and posts that members allegedly made to a closed Facebook page. In some of these pictures, they show various young women in various stages of undress. Some appear unconscious. And when someone tipped off police, the social media backlash was huge.

And now a fraternity member who says he was not involved in the postings is speaking out anonymously. He is defending his fraternity in an article in "Philadelphia" magazine. This is just part of this interview.

He says: "It wasn't malicious whatsoever. It wasn't intended to hurt anyone. It wasn't intended to demean anyone. It was an entirely satirical group and it was funny to some extent."

He goes on: "It is shameful to see the self-righteousness. Here's a quick reality check. Everyone -- from Bill Clinton to your grandfather to every Greek organization in the nation does the same old stuff. That's where that lil' old quip, don't throw stones if you live in a glass house, comes from." He adds, "We all live in a glass house."

OK. Joining me is the "Philadelphia" magazine writer who interviewed this young man, anonymous young man, Holly Otterbein, and also with me, HLN host Nancy Grace.

Holly, I'm just warning you I'm just -- I'm pissed, because -- I'm pissed off for a number of reasons. And when you read this whole interview with you, I mean, this guy basically blames the media for blowing this, this Web page with nonconsenting naked college women out of proportion. You have to be kidding me.

HOLLY OTTERBEIN, "PHILADELPHIA": Yes.

I mean, you read the interview. I think that he believes that there was some bad behavior that happened, but he doesn't think that it should be punished criminally. He said that in his opinion nothing more than a misdemeanor happened here and that usually misdemeanors if covered at all, they're covered in the back sections of newspapers. He said he didn't think it should be on the front page of CNN -- or on CNN or on the front page of "The New York Times."

[15:15:19] BALDWIN: I would posit that indeed it should be the front page of CNN.com.

Nancy Grace, listen to this. The last line of this interview, this guy says, "I hope nobody gets in trouble because nobody did anything worth getting in trouble over."

Please respond to that.

NANCY GRACE, HOST, "NANCY GRACE": Well, number one, a jury is entitled to take into account what people do before a crime and after, including covering it up. So anonymous better get ready for some police questioning.

You know, he may go on a sanctimonious rant if he wants to, but that really doesn't hold up to a grand jury subpoena. This is my concern. How did those women get undressed? All right? You want to tell me. Just go out on a limb with me here.

BALDWIN: I'm out on a limb with you.

GRACE: That a group of fraternity boys, probably drunk, and there are photos of marijuana, cocaine, ADD there, all right? Did they give these women GHB, gamma-hydroxybutyric? Did they give them the date rape drug? Is that why they're passed out?

Number one, why are they passed out? Number two, how did they get undressed? Because if one of these frat boys laid one finger, one finger on these girls, that could be a sexual battery. And did it stop in photos? Do you really think a group of drunk frat boys together see these girls undressed, they're taking pictures, not one of them touched them? So he may think it's a misdemeanor, but I have got a bombshell for him. He could be looking down the wrong end of a felony barrel right now.

BALDWIN: Wow. Wow.

GRACE: I'm furious.

BALDWIN: I'm furious.

GRACE: I have got a little girl that's going to grow up and go to college. How dare he say this?

BALDWIN: I know you're a mom. I'm furious right along with you.

And, Holly, he deflects, he deflects. You ask about deserving blame. And then here we are. We're talking about Penn State. It's been what, three years or so since the whole Sandusky scandal.

And my question to you is just covering this university and this fraternity, other fraternities, does he have a point? Is this something that happens in every single fraternity? Is it possible that he's actually telling the truth?

OTTERBEIN: Well, I think that's one of the questions that's going to be asked here. Is this a systemic issue?

The president of Penn State said yesterday in a statement that it might be time to reevaluate the entire fraternity system. And I just want to clarify, too, the police have said that criminal charges are possible of harassment...

GRACE: Of harassment.

OTTERBEIN: ... and invasion of privacy. Possible.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: ... don't land you in jail. Sexual battery or sexual touching does land you in jail. And if they slipped a mickey or a roofy to these girls, that's a whole 'nother ball game we're talking about.

And another thing. Talking about Penn State, PSU, what are they waiting for? They're thinking about it? Well, you know what, they better think quick.

BALDWIN: I just think so much of what's online and all the brutality and everything else, people are cowards because they do this so anonymously. And I know you mentioned a moment ago you're a mom, Nancy Grace. What would you say to this kid?

GRACE: Well, you know what, I don't have time for hypocrisy. I'm moving straight on to the felony here.

And what he is doing, number one, is covering up what I perceive to be a potential felony crime. Now he needs to rethink what he's doing because we may think he's anonymous, but everybody in that fraternity knows who he is, and that's not going to last long. His veil of secrecy is about to be pierced.

BALDWIN: Allegations so far, but it's just a stunning interview. I will put it there.

Holly Otterbein, thank you so much. And Nancy Grace, always a pleasure, Nancy Grace on HLN every weeknight 8:00 p.m. Eastern.

Thank you, ladies, to both of you.

OTTERBEIN: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, Russia has sent out an unusual invitation, asking the leader of North Korea to visit Moscow and, according to Russia, has accepted. What is this all about and what could it mean for the rest of the world? We will explore that.

And the "Hands up, don't shoot" mantra, protest, the rally cry, started in Ferguson, Missouri, after a number of witnesses said Michael Brown had his hands up when he was shot by police. But that account was never verified and so, therefore, maybe not true. Does that change anything? We will talk to Don Lemon coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:23:50] BALDWIN: It has never happened before, but North Korean leader Kim Jong-un is planning to leave the confines of his hermit kingdom. His destination? Russia.

An invite coming directly from President Vladimir Putin himself.

Let's go to Moscow to our correspondent there, Matthew Chance, our senior international correspondent.

I have a lot of questions for you. Let's just begin with, how exactly does one send on invite to Kim Jong-un? What did this look like?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I haven't seen it, first of all, but it's an issue of protocol.

I mean, there were 68 world leaders that have been invited to this enormous event that is being staged on May the 9th here in the Russian capital. It's to commemorate Victory Day, which is the end of the Second World War, essentially, and every year it's a big event, but this year is the 70th anniversary and so the Russians are going very big on it.

And they have invited everybody they can, including President Obama, who has declined, including European leaders, some of whom have also declined. But, astonishingly, Kim Jong-un, the North Korean leader, who has never been on a trip outside of North Korea, as far as we're aware, at least since he inherited the presidency or the leadership there in 2011, he accepted.

[15:25:08] And so he will be standing shoulder to shoulder with Vladimir Putin watching these soldiers parade through Red Square to commemorate the end of the Second World War.

BALDWIN: Since this is such a significant visit, do we have any idea yet what, Matthew, the Kremlin is planning for Kim Jong-un?

CHANCE: Well, there'll be that big event and that will be the main event that he will be attending if he comes along with all those other world leaders.

And 2015 has also been announced as the year of friendship between Russia and North Korea. And so I don't know this for sure, but my expectation is there'll be cultural agreements, business agreements between the two countries as well. It's also a possible opportunity for Kim Jong-un to meet with Xi Jinping, the Chinese leader. Remember, China is the main backer of North Korea at the moment, although that might change if the relationship with Russia gets closer.

But those two figures have never met. Xi Jinping is going to be in Moscow attending these Victory Day celebrations along with Kim Jong-un and so the two of them could have an opportunity to get together and talk about their relationship as well. It is a pretty interesting little diplomatic initiative by Moscow to bring all these figures together.

BALDWIN: The world will be watching. Matthew Chance, thank you very much in Moscow.

Coming up next, protests across the country highlighting racial tensions between police and other communities, especially here at the University of Virginia or in Ferguson, Missouri. We will talk to Don Lemon. He has more. He is focusing on the hands up movement tonight for his show. And we will ask Don if he agrees with a recent "Washington Post" columnist that it's actually a lie.

Also ahead, the words from a father to a teenager who allegedly planned to attack his son's school, they're simply remarkable. He says to this would-be killer, I understand how you might feel. And it will get better. We will talk to this father live coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)