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CNN NEWSROOM
Tunisian President Announces Arrests After Terror Attack; Business as Usual for Ambassador Caroline Kennedy Despite Death Threats; Virginia Governor Orders Investigation in Student's Arrest; Secret Service May Have Erased Tapes; Boston Marathon Bombing Trial. Aired 10-10:30a ET
Aired March 19, 2015 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, I'm Brianna Keilar sitting in for Carol Costello. Thanks so much for joining me.
We begin with some breaking news as the death toll rises in the wake of that vicious terror attack in Tunisia.
[10:00:01] Authorities have now arrested nine people and this includes four individuals believed to have direct links to the gunmen. That's according to the president of Tunisia.
This video right here shows the terrifying moments when people are forced to evacuate. You can see a lot of them just running for their lives. You can see the chaos.
We're getting some new video of the aftermath of that attack and we do want to warn you, this video we're about to show you is graphic. It is difficult to watch. It's video that was shot by our CNN crew on the ground and it shows the brutal aftermath of that massacre. You can see the crime scene taped off. There are bloodstains there on the ground.
It is believed that 23 people were killed and that that number includes at least 17 tourists.
Let's go right now to CNN senior international correspondent Arwa Damon. She's on the phone with us from Tunis, the capital of Tunisia, where this brutal attack took place.
Arwa, the numbers being updated here when it comes to these arrests but it sounds like authorities now have a pretty good handle on just how many people they've taken in connected to this, right?
ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (via phone): Well, it's difficult to gauge at this stage, Brianna, because what we don't know is whether or not those four individuals who were detained are believed to have direct links to this attack were in fact or is there any of them, any of those three gunmen that are still believed to be at large.
Now you were talking about those horrific scenes of the aftermath at the museum, we're standing outside right now but we were inside just earlier and it's quite chilling, the bloodstains on the ground on the exterior. Trying to even begin to imagine what these went through on a vacation and enjoying their time, and all of sudden having that shattered in the most brutal, horrific, and shocking way.
This is something that is not just devastated those that have lost loved ones in this attack but one that has also shook the entire security of this nation, that up until now, was held really being help us up as the success story of the Arab area. But has been dealing with a terrorist threat for quite some time now. Along with the nine individuals that were detained today.
Senior government officials said in a press conference earlier in the last four weeks, they had detained around 400 individuals believed to have ties to terrorism. Tunisia has the highest number of foreign fighters that have gone to the battlefield of Syria and Iraq, upwards of 300,000 of them believed to have come back home to the threat. It's very real. But up until now, the country hasn't necessarily felt it in such a degree. People were absolutely horrified, appalled that this took place, embarrassed that it took place in their country.
That tourists who came here lost their lives and they're anxious about the future not jut security wise but also their future in terms of the nation's economy because tourism is so central to that.
KEILAR: Capturing the sentiment there in Tunis, Arwa Damon, our senior international correspondent. Thank you so much.
And I want to bring in now our CNN intelligence and security analyst, Bob Baer. He's a former CIA operative.
Bob, thanks for being with us and shedding some light on this. So talk to us about these nine arrests. When you see this, and not all of them are necessarily directly connected to this attack but what does it tell you about maybe the planning and the scale of the attack?
ROBERT BAER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, Brianna, I think it was clearly well organized in the sense of a soft target. They could get a high casualty count very quickly against tourist buses . They struck at Tunisia's economic heart, which is Arwa said is tourism. This is really going to hurt the country. And the fact that the part of the museum is right next to parliament in the same confines. Historically, important center of Tunisian culture.
There's been no claim so far, but that doesn't surprise me either. The Islamic State and even Al Qaeda is at the end of the day a franchise and there's no rules for climbing these things, organizing them. All you have to do is swear allegiance to the caliphate or talk (INAUDIBLE) . It doesn't really matter. A lot of these groups act independently, and we shouldn't expect, you know, some template for them to -- you know, to claim responsibility for this.
KEILAR: But -- and yes, this may be the score, just sort of I guess is-related or sympathetic terrorism that we're seeing in places. So we're seeing how sensitive the Tunisian government must be to tackling terrorism. Tourism is so big for this country. This is -- if you're in Europe, you know, a lot of people go to Tunisia for a holiday, a nice relaxing time to get a little sun, to see some beautiful sights. [10:05:01] And so when we look at these arrests coming one day after
this attack, what does that tell you? Is this the government sending a signal that they're going to root out terrorism?
BAER: I think they would -- of course they would like to root it out. Tunisia is the one success story. They -- with the Arab spring started there, of course. They had a Muslim brother leader for a while. He was voted out. So it's very important symbolically for the Arab world. And they're going to arrest everybody connected but I would be surprised if all nine of these people were really involved in the attack.
It may have been just two or a couple more. We don't know yet. First stories are always inaccurate. But what worries me is people at the CIA and the Pentagon have been telling me that no place in the Middle East is safe for any American and this attack in Tunisia tends to underscore this warning.
KEILAR: Yes. Well, that -- and that's really the thing. I was just in Israel about a month ago to go and see the sights that I had never seen and just touring the old city, you could see the tourism was so diminished and talking to people there in Jerusalem, it has taken such a hit. Is that what you expect to happen in Tunisia?
BAER: I think it's going to be terrible. I think cruises are going to pull out. And I lived in Tunisia or studied Arabic there. And the whole economy I can tell you depends on tourism and the Roman ruins. And it's so close to Europe.
And you know we also have to remember Libya. Libya is a mess. A civil war bombed this morning. You know, in this sort of chaos probably almost definitely we'll sweep in to Tunisia in some form and we're going to find out how strong the government is.
KEILAR: Yes.
BAER: And you know, it's really hard to say at this point.
KEILAR: Yes. Metastasizing in that region.
Bob Baer, thanks so much. Really appreciate you being with us.
BAER: Thank you.
KEILAR: Japan is launching an investigation into death threats against Caroline Kennedy and the U.S. ambassador is not retreating into the shadows. Just this morning she appeared at an event with First Lady Michelle Obama who's in the country. Just last night Kennedy shared the spotlight yesterday with former President Bill Clinton at event to honor her father, the late former president. Kennedy's husband spoke to CBS News about these threats against his wife.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EDWIN SCHLOSSBERG, CAROLINE KENNEDY'S HUSBAND: I worry about the safety of my family every day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Big concern for him.
CNN's Michelle Kosinski is at the White House joining us with the latest. And you kind of see that there, Michelle, that, you know, the government puts on a good face about things being secure and that they're trying to fight these threats like we've seen in Japan and certainly the recent incident in South Korea but you're seeing the real face of this from Caroline Kennedy's husband. He is concerned.
MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Right. Right. A much different sound bite if you want to call it that than we see from, you know, the official channels and we know that this has been top of concern. I mean, officially the State Department and others have said that, you know, making sure that U.S. assets overseas is a number one priority and they would take any steps necessary to keep people safe.
But you see, incidents like the slashing with a knife of the U.S. ambassador to South Korea just this month and you know that the worry is there in places that people wouldn't normally be worried if they're in a position like that. So we know that this is under investigation in Japan, according to report there. It doesn't appear that any arrests has been made but U.S. officials really haven't -- wanted to give any details about the possible credibility of these threats, characterizing the threats themselves or any changes or measures that might have been taken as a result.
So what we know that these were multiple death threats made by phone, according to these reports, by a man who is speaking English, dialed in to the U.S. embassy in Tokyo last month. And it might seem like this must be something really standout, that these threats must really be something the way that it leaked out of the investigation and it's now been reported around the world, but that's not necessarily the case. And here's what the state department is saying about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARI HARF, DEPUTY STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESWOMAN: Any threat we take very seriously anytime we get information that an ambassador might be threatened. We look at our security posture, we take additional steps if we need to but we can't verify the credibility of this report yet but we are talking to the Japanese government, we'll take additional steps if we need to and that's obviously something we're very focused on at the State Department.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KOSINSKI: I think it really would have been something and very head turning if the first lady's planned trip to Japan was cancelled, or she did not publicly meet with Ambassador Kennedy but sources are telling us that there has been no change in the first lady's preplanned schedule within that country. [10:10:01] And also I think, you know, it's interesting to note, that
these death threats allegedly were also made against a U.S. consul general based in another part of Japan at the same time. You have to wonder that if those threats were only made against him, who's not a, you know, household name, if this would have been focused on or reported on in the same way -- Brianna.
KEILAR: Yes, and the big question, too, is whether these ambassadors and these representatives if they -- they certainly don't get as much security as a member of the first family so that's really a question as well.
Michelle Kosinski at the White House, thank you so much.
Still to come, protesters march. A college campus simmers. A violent arrest leaves one student bloodied and the state's governor ordering an investigation.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KEILAR: Racial tensions flare on a college campus after the bloody arrest of a student. Gruesome images that are just igniting outrage, rallies, accusations of police brutality, and now Virginia's governor is calling for an investigation.
CNN's Rosa Flores is covering this story as it unfolds at the University of Virginia. And these images are so hard to see. There is so much blood. It is very gruesome. There's a lot that we don't know about this case.
ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You're absolutely right. There is a gap where we don't know what's going on and then we see the video. So let's talk about what we do know and we're learning more about who Martese Johnson is. And so here's what his attorney tells us. He's 20 years old, he is a double major. A leader at this college, holds various leadership.
[10:15:01] And then here's what we know from police. OK. So it's St. Patrick's Day and Johnson is going to a bar. And he's not allowed in the bar. Now Brianna, it's important to know that his attorney says he was not allowed in, but it was not because of a fake idea.
KEILAR: Was it a space issue? Was it a capacity issue?
FLORES: Again it's one of those --
KEILAR: We don't know. We don't know.
FLORES: One of those gaps in information. We don't know exactly what happened but his attorney making it very clear. It was not because he was presenting a fake I.D.
KEILAR: Yes.
FLORES: What we do know is that these agents then approached and tried to arrest. And then there's the gap of information that we were talking about and then we see the video. And these bloody pictures that you see here. And so they're very powerful, they're very stark. But we don't have all of the information and then we have the video of Johnson being pinned to the ground. He's bloody. He's saying racist, racist, to the cops and the cops are saying, stop fighting, stop fighting.
KEILAR: Yes.
FLORES: But he ends up getting 10 stitches, he's released and here are the charges. We obtained this recently, so the official charges are obstruction of justice without force, public swearing and intoxication and we do know that his hearing is a week from today.
KEILAR: Obstruction of justice without force.
FLORES: Without force, which is --
KEILAR: What does that mean?
(CROSSTALK)
FLORES: Important to note -- I don't know exactly what that means.
KEILAR: Yes.
FLORES: It's definitely, you know, cop speak, but it does tell us that it's without force, which raises questions. So why is he pinned to the ground?
KEILAR: Is he resisting, but without --
FLORES: But without force.
KEILAR: Significant force. I'd like to get into that.
FLORES: And now he is speaking, though, publicly at a rally and I know that we have that sound.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARTESE JOHNSON, ARRESTED UVA STUDENT: I want the remainder of the students up here to be able to share their opinions and share their feelings. And so I beg for you guys, regardless of your personal opinions and the way you feel about subjects, to please respect everyone here. We're all a part of one community. And we deserve to respect each other, especially in times like this. Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FLORES: And these agents are on administrative leave. And as you mentioned the governor coming forward saying we need an independent investigation. The president of the college also coming forward and say this is a very public event. If you know more information, help us fill in the gaps by providing video, pictures, testimony, whatever.
KEILAR: OK. So we're asking what this charge means. Obstruction without force. Let's get an opinion from a lawyer. We just happen to have one standing by.
Page Pate, can you -- tell us, what does this mean?
PAGE PATE, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: There are basically two ways to obstruct an officer. One is with force. And usually that's a felony offense. That's when someone is actively resisting arrest. They're pushing the officer away, they're fighting back. The other way to obstruct an officer is by simply saying I'm not going to do what you're telling me to do. If you're ordering me down on the ground, I'm going to object to it, I'm going to tell you why I'm objecting.
But as long as I don't touch you and use force, that's a different type of obstruction and usually that's a lesser offense, like a misdemeanor where using force is a felony.
KEILAR: OK, so if he is, let's say, you know, obviously this is alleged, but if someone is using obstruction without force, is it reasonable for them to be physically forced down on the ground in such a way that would render them bloody like this?
PATE: Usually not, Brianna. I mean, normally when an officer has to use force in a situation, they're going to charge the individual, the defendant, the suspect, with the more serious type of obstruction, to justify the use of force. That's what we see commonly. So I was very surprised to just hear that they were charging him with a lesser type of obstruction where he did not use any physical force.
KEILAR: So this could be him resisting, not making it easy for them, but he's not -- he's not striking them. What if he were backing away from them, running away from them. Would that be obstruction without force?
PATE: Yes, it would. Running away from an officer is exactly the type of the lower offensive obstruction where you're not following orders but you're not using any force or physical force against the officer.
KEILAR: OK. Thanks so much for clearing that up, Page. Really appreciate it.
PATE: Sure.
KEILAR: And Rosa Flores, thank you so much to you as well for all the details.
Unacceptable, extremely concerning. Those are the words expected to be used by Secret Service director Joe Clancy today. He is just hours away from his appearance. Yet another appearance on Capitol Hill. And this time, it's in front of a Senate Homeland Security panel. He's trying to explain how the men and women under his command could have waited five whole days to tell him about an alleged drunken incident at the White House involving his agents including one on the president's personal detail. And then how the tapes of this incident were erased.
CNN investigative correspondent Chris Frates following this story. This is pretty unbelievable, Chris, and the question is, is this a
simple oversight of the tapes being erased out for a certain period of time or might this have been intentional?
[10:20:08] CHRIS FRATES, CNN INVESTIGATIONS UNIT CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's exactly right. I mean, it's a pretty stunning revelation, Brianna, and it's in the investigation into two Secret Service agents accused of drunk driving their car around the barricade of an active bomb investigation at the White House.
Now I talked to House Oversight Committee chairman Jason Chaffetz and he told me that during a closed door briefing with law makers, earlier this week, Director Clancy showed them two surveillance videos, and they asked the director for more angles. And Clancy said that those additional videos may have been erased per the policy to erase them after 72 hours.
Now Chaffetz told me he was frustrated that Clancy doesn't know whether there are more tapes and he's worried he's getting the runaround. So I asked the Secret Service for a response. Here's what they told me. They said, "As a practice, the Secret Service maintains video footage of camera systems at the White House for a period of 72 hours. In the event of an operational security incident at the White House complex, specific video footage is maintained for investigative and protective intelligence purposes."
Now, Brianna, they didn't say whether they kept the tapes in this particular incident, though, and we're learning some new information this morning from a law enforcement source who tells CNN that the agency can recover videos after 72 hours from a master system. So our source is telling us nothing is really ever gone. And our source says there are lots more cameras around the White House to pull video from, including where this incident happened.
So that's important details because Chaffetz has launched his own investigation and has asked the Secret Service for all the tapes.
KEILAR: Yes.
FRATES: So we're definitely not likely to hear the end of this.
KEILAR: Was it Chaffetz, Chris, who said, what the heck, basically? This is the White House, not a 7/11. Was it -- didn't he say that about other facilities?
(LAUGHTER)
FRATES: When I talked to Chaffetz yesterday, I said, well, how do you feel about this? And he said, well, you know, Chris, this is -- this is not your local 7/11. This is the White House for crying out loud. And that's a feeling that's shared not just --
KEILAR: Yes.
FRATES: -- from Republicans like Chaffetz, but by Democrats as well.
KEILAR: Yes. No, I got to -- I got to say, I think a lot of folks would agree with him.
Chris Frates, thanks so much for breaking that down.
FRATES: Thank you.
KEILAR: Still to come, the jury in the Boston bombing trial gets a close-up look at bomb -- at the bomb. The prosecutors say Dzhokhar Tsarnaev hurled at police in a desperate shootout. How is the defense going to respond?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:26:08] KEILAR: Was the Boston marathon bombing suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev a willing active participant in the deadly attacks or was he a brainwashed pawn of his older brother?
Prosecutors are zeroing in on bloody clothing and arsenal of homemade bombs and even a flag from Tsarnaev's bedroom.
Let's get deeper into this with CNN legal analyst and trial attorney Paul Callan, as well as criminal defense attorney, Page Pate.
And so, you know, first to you, Paul. We're hearing testimony, we've heard testimony that both of the brothers were throwing these pipe bombs towards the end of this whole episode as they were involved in this chase with police officers.
The defense obviously is trying to say that he, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, was sort of a victim a little bit of his older brother but he's throwing the pipe bombs, we're learning. Does that play into the jury's calculus on this?
PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I think it does because when you look at this pipe bomb, I was struck myself by how big and heavy it looks. And it looks like the kind of weapon that would take careful planning to create, and certainly a planned effort by the defendant to throw it. It doesn't look like something you would just sort of induce somebody else to throw or prepare.
KEILAR: Yes.
CALLAN: So I think that's what they're trying to show. He knew what he was doing. He was involved in the planning and he knew about the seriousness of the act.
KEILAR: And Page, to that point, you actually have jurors who are able to -- we just heard from Alexandra Field's report. They're picking up these pipe bombs or these pieces of the pipe bombs and what she said was, they're surprised by how heavy they are.
So is that really what the prosecution is trying to get at here, these aren't toys, he knew what he was doing, he is a very active participant?
PATE: Yes. I think the prosecution is doing exactly what they need to do in this case at this time is to bring the jury into it in a very physical, almost visceral way. You know put your hands or at least see the evidence, recognize that this stuff is very dangerous.
I don't think it's going to be credible for the jury to continue to suggest he was not a willing participant. I think they really have to step back now and be much more concerned about the possibility of the death penalty. Focus on his age, focus on the fact he wasn't the leader here and then try to address as best you can this very graphic and physical evidence.
KEILAR: OK. And, Paul, to both of you, actually, we just have this information that just came in. This is from the Middlesex D.A. So this is basically saying the Middlesex D.A. is going to pursue a prosecution against Dzhokhar Tsarnaev because of the MIT police officer, Sean Collier, who was killed.
Were we expecting this? Does this have any impact on things?
CALLAN: Well, it's somewhat unusual. Middlesex is where MIT is located. It's the Cambridge jurisdiction. What a lot of people don't realize is that the federal government can bring charges, but state governments can bring charges on exactly the same crime and it's not double jeopardy. So two things are accomplished here. One, it's sort of a guarantee that if the federal jury led them off or came up with a sentence that they weren't happy with, Massachusetts could still prosecute for murder.
But bear in mind, Massachusetts does not have the death penalty, so the federal charges are actually the more serious charges.
KEILAR: OK, they're the more serious charges and one of the things that we're seeing, Page, this was something that just kind of takes your breath away, this photo. Prosecutors showed jurors a picture of Dzhokhar Tsarnaev and he is underneath a black flag. This is a jihadist flag, it appears.
What do jurors take away from -- he's casual, he's pointing at it.
PATE: Right.
KEILAR: What -- what do jurors take away from this?
PATE: Well, the prosecution, the government is hoping that the jury is going to be afraid of this man.
